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Topic: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-04-23 19:37:42 and read 4325 times.

With Lincoln and Cadillac no longer having flagship RWD sedans, and with the Hyundai Equus now on the market, doesn't anyone think this would be the opportunity for Chrysler to introduce a new model above the 300C (Imperial? 400D?) to better compete with Lincoln and Cadillac?

With the Mercury Grand Marquis (the 300's former direct competitor) and Lincoln Town Car (the livery king) gone, perhaps Chrysler could try to give Lincoln and Cadillac a run for their money with a new flagship RWD full-luxury sedan. Currently, the 300's chief competitors include the Ford Taurus, Toyota Avalon, Hyundai Azera, Buick LaCrosse, and soon the 2014 Chevy Impala. All of these models are FWD. With full-luxury RWD sedans being limited to Lexus, Hyundai, and the European luxury car manufacturers, perhaps Chrysler could try entering the market.

Also, perhaps such model would be an opportunity for Chrysler to re-enter the livery market. The Town Car has been discontinued, and Chrysler has exited the livery market with the current 300, even though this hasn't stopped limo manufacturers coming up with their own unofficial versions. If Chrysler were to come up with a new full-luxury RWD sedan, perhaps Chrysler can truly fill in the void left by the discontinuation of the Lincoln Town Car.

What does anyone here think?

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2012-04-23 19:48:26 and read 4316 times.

Chrysler used to have a car above the 300 - it was the Mercedes S class sedans. The "old" Chryler (back when they were Daimler-Chrysler) did present a concept sedan (called the Imperial) that was very large - like the size of the current Bentley, but Chrysler's money problems and its divorce for Daimler killed the Imperial project. Perhaps with Fiat's new ownership, they will reconsider a true luxury sedan again. Historically, Chrysler was a distant third behind Cadillac and Lincoln (and in more recent years - Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW) in the luxury sedan marketplace.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-04-23 19:55:14 and read 4312 times.

Chrysler (the group, not just the brand) has more pressing concerns (such as a competitive midsize/family car) that it needs to focus on first.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-23 20:08:03 and read 4306 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
doesn't anyone think this would be the opportunity for Chrysler to introduce a new model above the 300C (Imperial?

There was an Imperial concept in 2006 but thanks to government regulations, they didn't go forward with it.

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/2006/Press/01.jpg

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/2006/Press/02.jpg

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/2006/Factory/10-reg.jpg

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/2006/Factory/13-reg.jpg

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Molykote
Posted 2012-04-23 20:20:45 and read 4297 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
There was an Imperial concept in 2006 but thanks to government regulations, they didn't go forward with it.

They probably just didn't have the heart to build a RR knock off after producing the bootleg Bentley!

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-04-23 20:25:45 and read 4296 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
There was an Imperial concept in 2006 but thanks to government regulations, they didn't go forward with it.

Good thing too - I don't like seeing things that make me vomit while I drive. Styling by Mrs. Belcher's 2nd grade art class.

How about something like this :

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-23 20:31:59 and read 4292 times.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 4):
They probably just didn't have the heart to build a RR knock off after producing the bootleg Bentley!

Yet just about every car on the road today seems like a copy of another brand.
Seems like every car today is trying to look sporty but when a brand designs a formally styled sedan, people accuse them of coping Rolls Royce.
Rolls Royce is not a bad model to copy by the way.
Sure as hell looks better than any of these CUV knockoffs.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
How about something like this :

Roofline is too low and I hate those narrow sliver headlights that wrap around the edge.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Molykote
Posted 2012-04-23 20:35:03 and read 4289 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Seems like every car today is trying to look sporty but when a brand designs a formally styled sedan, people accuse them of coping Rolls Royce

I think the largest problem is that few (no?) brands have the status of RR, so a relatively pedestrian Chrysler is going to have no chance of pulling off a clone.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-23 20:43:13 and read 4281 times.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 7):
I think the largest problem is that few (no?) brands have the status of RR, so a relatively pedestrian Chrysler is going to have no chance of pulling off a clone.

Yet it's ok for every brand from Nissan, to Volkswagen to Chevrolet to copy Porsche?
40 years ago, Lincoln copied Rolls Royce styling and it worked well and sold well.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Molykote
Posted 2012-04-23 20:58:03 and read 4272 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Quoting Molykote (Reply 7):
I think the largest problem is that few (no?) brands have the status of RR, so a relatively pedestrian Chrysler is going to have no chance of pulling off a clone.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Yet it's ok for every brand from Nissan, to Volkswagen to Chevrolet to copy Porsche?
40 years ago, Lincoln copied Rolls Royce styling and it worked well and sold well.

Porsche is held in high esteem, but none of those brands have the cachet of RR. Additionally, VW has had a meaningful working relationship with Porsche for some time (even before they owned ~half of Porsche).

I did a brief google search, but couldn't find a Lincoln that looked like a RR (not doubting you, but I am not familiar with old Lincolns and didn't know what to search for).

Beyond the "who copied whom?" discussion, I think the biggest problem people have with the above Chrysler designs is that they simply took the world standard icon of automotive exclusivity/luxury/quality and built a cheap looking copy for 10% of the price. Kind of like an Invicta to the Rolex...

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-04-23 22:04:28 and read 4241 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C? 

Yes. The 300 should be the lowest car in the Chrysler lineup.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
There was an Imperial concept in 2006 but thanks to government regulations, they didn't go forward with it.

That's a bad Rolls Royce knockoff and as badly as the 300 aged before its update, this would age worse.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-23 22:20:51 and read 4234 times.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 9):
Porsche is held in high esteem, but none of those brands have the cachet of RR. Additionally, VW has had a meaningful working relationship with Porsche for some time (even before they owned ~half of Porsche).

What bugs me is that even minivans and SUVs are trying to 'look' sporty and almost every sedan is trying to copy a sporty look. I really hate the low in the front, high in the back vertical beltlines of all cars today.
I like the boxy formal styling of the 300C and proposed Imperial. If its looks like a poorman's Rolls Royce, so what?
This car would have sold between $50,000 - $60,000.
The standard 6.4 liter HEMI puts out 470HP compared to the 453HP the Rolls Royce Phantom puts out.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 9):
I did a brief google search, but couldn't find a Lincoln that looked like a RR (not doubting you, but I am not familiar with old Lincolns and didn't know what to search for).

That would be my Lincoln.  

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2012-04-23 23:56:57 and read 4207 times.

I think the Chrysler brand should have a car above the 300. However, I don't think they should go for a large luxury sedan like the Imperial of yore (or the purported modern day Imperial previewed by the concept of the mid-2000s), but rather a halo two-door car along the lines of the 2005 Chrysler Firepower concept (sports car) or the 1993 Chrysler Thunderbolt concept (luxury coupe).

Of all the great Chrysler concept cars of the nineties, the 1993 Chrysler Thunderbolt was one of my favorites. Of course the Thunderbolt is no longer a reference for future cars styling-wise because car design has followed a different path, but the idea of Chrysler releasing a 4.0 liter, I-8, RWD luxury coupe with more than 360 hp sounds realistic and, to the loyalists of the brand, it should sound tantalizing. Now that it has FIAT's resources readily available, Chrysler could get some help from Maserati engineers to put together a modern day Thunderbolt that is luxurious enough to lure some buyers away from the premium brands and that, at the same time, has a credible chassis that can satisfy performance enthusiasts.

Just my two cents.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-24 00:08:40 and read 4204 times.

The big question you should ask is who would buy it, American luxury cars don't sell well, cars these days need to sell in more than one market, a luxury Chrysler isn't going to sell anywhere outside North America, just like Cadillac and Lincoln, they don't sell well outside there traditional market. Fiat isn't stupid, they know this so they aren't going to throw good money after a dumb idea, besides they have a large luxury car in the Quattroporte.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):

There was an Imperial concept in 2006 but thanks to government regulations, they didn't go forward with it.

I don't think govt regulations had anything to do with it, the styling only generated negative reviews from pretty much all the motoring press and customer clinics.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I really hate the low in the front, high in the back vertical beltlines of all cars today.

You can partially blame pedestrian safety regulations for this look, also a low front improves aerodynamics and fuel consumption.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-24 00:31:50 and read 4201 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):
the Thunderbolt is no longer a reference for future cars styling-wise because car design has followed a different path,

That was their cab-forward era. Glad that era is over.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):
Now that it has FIAT's resources readily available, Chrysler could get some help from Maserati engineers to put together a modern day Thunderbolt that is luxurious enough to lure some buyers away from the premium brands and that, at the same time, has a credible chassis that can satisfy performance enthusiasts.

Perhaps Maserati should help Chrysler improve their interior. The 300C is a great car but the seats are rather hard. Chrysler used to have some of the most comfortable seats ever and when they teamed up with Maserati to make the TC in the last 80s, that was probably the most soft & comfortable seat in a roadster ever made.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-24 03:41:27 and read 4175 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Chrysler used to have some of the most comfortable seats ever

You need to sit in a Volvo, by far and away the best seats short of a Rolls Royce or Bentley.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-04-24 06:23:16 and read 4156 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I really hate the low in the front, high in the back vertical beltlines of all cars today.
I like the boxy formal styling of the 300C and proposed Imperial. If its looks like a poorman's Rolls Royce, so what?

You do realize that the 300 was one of the cars that really started that trend right? Sitting in it was frequently compared to sitting in a coffin because its "boxy formal" styling had tiny windows.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
I don't think govt regulations had anything to do with it, the styling only generated negative reviews from pretty much all the motoring press and customer clinics.

Not to mention DamilerChrysler fear of having Chrysler compete with Mercedes in any way.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-04-24 06:23:38 and read 4156 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Also, perhaps such model would be an opportunity for Chrysler to re-enter the livery market. The Town Car has been discontinued, and Chrysler has exited the livery market with the current 300, even though this hasn't stopped limo manufacturers coming up with their own unofficial versions. If Chrysler were to come up with a new full-luxury RWD sedan, perhaps Chrysler can truly fill in the void left by the discontinuation of the Lincoln Town Car.

Truth be told, the last factory-produced RWD limo that contained more passenger seating than a standard or slightly stretched sedan was the 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood Limousine.
http://www.rivimp.com/images/IMG_3440.jpg
Both Cadillac and Chrysler tried making FWD-based limos on their own during the mid-to-late 80s but failed miserably, especially Chrysler due to its underpowered 4-cylinder engine.

As a result; most limo coach builders simply opted for for either the largest and/or RWD sedans, cut them in half and added sections to them. That's essentially been SOP for the last 2-1/2 to 3 decades.

For the record, aside from the Town Car L model (which was also available to the retail market BTW) and some custom-built Presidential models; Lincoln hasn't had nor offered a factory-built limo for livery companies since, maybe, the 1950s. Although there was one coach-builder that specialized in building stretch limo Lincolns (including a 4-door '68 Mark III) from 1964-1970.

The Lincoln Town Car stretch limos that one sees (or has seen) on the roads for the last 3 decades are mostly aftermarket conversions/alterations to a standard retail Town Car.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 1):
Chrysler used to have a car above the 300 - it was the Mercedes S class sedans.

While that might be technically correct but I believe the OP was asking regarding a vehicle within the Chrysler line-up. The pictured Imperial concept could have been that flagship among Chryslers.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 9):
I did a brief google search, but couldn't find a Lincoln that looked like a RR (not doubting you, but I am not familiar with old Lincolns and didn't know what to search for).

The main RR-like feature on Lincolns was the tall, squarish grille that first appeared on the '68 Continental Mark III and was later applied to all Lincoln models in 1977. All Lincolns would feature this style grille (or a variant of it) for the next 10 years. The 1997 Town Car would be the last Lincoln to feature this style grille (or variant).

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: oldeuropean
Posted 2012-04-24 06:47:31 and read 4143 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
How about something like this :


Haha, French design for an American car? I don't believe that.  


I can't wait for that car.

BTW, it also will be available as a Diesel-Hybrid. 1.7 litres/100 km (138.36 miles/gallon)!
I'm sure that this will be the first bigger success for Citroen after the legendary DS.

http://www.cars-electric.com/citroen...cifications-a-mature-hybrid-sedan/

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2012-04-24 09:02:03 and read 4113 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
a luxury Chrysler isn't going to sell anywhere outside North America

Well, under FIAT's plans, there will be a lineup of quasi-premium to premium cars of different sizes that would be sold as Chryslers in the Americas and as Lancias in Europe.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Perhaps Maserati should help Chrysler improve their interior.

As of this model year, there is a Chrysler 300 Luxury Series with Poltrona Frau and Nappa leather on the seats and wrapping the steering wheel, dashboard, door panels and center console, and featuring matte-finish hand-sanded wood trim. Lancia, as I understand, had a role in helping create this top-of-the-line trim level for the Chrysler 300 (btw, the 300 is already sold as the Lancia Thema in most European markets). I bet the seats of this car are very, very comfortable.  

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-24 09:15:26 and read 4107 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 16):
Sitting in it was frequently compared to sitting in a coffin because its "boxy formal" styling had tiny windows.

That is due to it's low roof-line. There are sedans with rear passenger beltlines up to their ears.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
s of this model year, there is a Chrysler 300 Luxury Series with Poltrona Frau and Nappa leather on the seats and wrapping the steering wheel, dashboard, door panels and center console, and featuring matte-finish hand-sanded wood trim.

That is great to hear!
I'd like to see what those look like.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 18):
Haha, French design for an American car? I don't believe that.

Wasn't that what Delorean was?

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Larshjort
Posted 2012-04-24 10:28:07 and read 4077 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Wasn't that what Delorean was?

Italy isn't a province in France http://www.italdesign.it/project/delorean-dmc12-eng

/Lars

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-24 10:39:43 and read 4071 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 16):

Not to mention DamilerChrysler fear of having Chrysler compete with Mercedes in any way.

I can't see a Mercedes model that the Imperial would have competed with, if someone wants an S class they buy one, I couldn't see them cross shopping an Imperial.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
Truth be told, the last factory-produced RWD limo that contained more passenger seating than a standard or slightly stretched sedan was the 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood Limousine.

Only in the US, Mercedes has offered a six door E & S class limos for a long time. The Daimler DS420 ended production in 1992, it was a factory 6 seater.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
Well, under FIAT's plans, there will be a lineup of quasi-premium to premium cars of different sizes that would be sold as Chryslers in the Americas and as Lancias in Europe.

And the Lancia badge isn't going to help one bit, only Italians buy Lancia, Euro buyers aren't daft, the 300C wasn't successful in Europe, so I doubt the same car with a Lancia badge will be any different, Fiat are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-24 10:48:57 and read 4069 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
Chrysler 300 Luxury Series

I just looked at some of those photos. It's certainly an improvement.
I'd still love to see something along the lines of the TC by Maserati interior.
That was a slice of heaven in a 2-seat roadster.

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 21):

Point taken but if you want to be a smart***, at least find a link that works.   

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-04-24 11:31:17 and read 4054 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
I can't see a Mercedes model that the Imperial would have competed with, if someone wants an S class they buy one, I couldn't see them cross shopping an Imperial.

I doubt anyone would have cross shopped it with an S class, but if it was good enough it may have stolen some of the lower end C or maybe E class buyers. That said Daimler was paranoid about any potential of Chrysler making Mercedes look bad.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
And the Lancia badge isn't going to help one bit, only Italians buy Lancia, Euro buyers aren't daft, the 300C wasn't successful in Europe, so I doubt the same car with a Lancia badge will be any different, Fiat are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.

I doubt Fiat expects the 300/Thema to be a huge success in Europe. But it makes more sense to try and market only one troubled brand in Europe (Lancia) versus two (Chrysler and Lancia).

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-24 12:00:21 and read 4078 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 24):
But it makes more sense to try and market only one troubled brand in Europe (Lancia) versus two (Chrysler and Lancia).

They are marketing both brands in Europe, they will be Lancia's in continental Europe and Chrysler's in the UK and Ireland.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-04-24 13:22:20 and read 4056 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
Only in the US, Mercedes has offered a six door E & S class limos for a long time. The Daimler DS420 ended production in 1992, it was a factory 6 seater.

Most limo companies here in the US don't offer a Mercedes S Class limo other than as a straight up sedan. When it comes to stretched sedans, the Lincoln Town Car was the dominant vehicle until the model was discontinued.

The Chrysler Imperial concept was only slightly larger than the 300C, as the wheelbase was 3" longer and used a lot of the same parts. Chrysler at the time they introduced the Imperial concept car, they also introduced the 300C LWB, which was a 6" stretch of the 300C marketed primarily to the livery market to compete with the Lincoln Town Car L that has been the dominate car in the limo sedan market. Chrysler has already opted against an LWB version of the current generation 300C, as it really was a niche model and did not fare too well against the Town Car.

If there is going to be a larger Chrysler, it may appear sometime in the 2014-2015 timeframe at the earliest. The Alfa 169 is supposed to hit the market in 2014 and perhaps there will be a Chrysler version of it. There's also been rumors of a "baby" Maserati Quattroporte to fill the gap between the 300C and the Maserati Quattroporte.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
And the Lancia badge isn't going to help one bit, only Italians buy Lancia, Euro buyers aren't daft, the 300C wasn't successful in Europe, so I doubt the same car with a Lancia badge will be any different, Fiat are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.

Now the 300C Touring was a better seller than the regular 300C (It was a Dodge Magnum with the 300C's front end and interior.), so much so that there are rumors they are resurrecting the Dodge Magnum so they can sell a Lancia/Chrysler version of it in Europe.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: N1120A
Posted 2012-04-24 13:45:07 and read 4073 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
With Lincoln and Cadillac no longer having flagship RWD sedans

Well, every Cadillac is RWD now, so I don't see the point. Indeed, they were all FWD for a while, with the "flagship" being the FWD DeVille.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):

That thing is awful. It must have been the Department of Ugly that regulated it out of existence.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
This car would have sold between $50,000 - $60,000.

Yeah. Not the price to pay for a Chrysler.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 18):
Haha, French design for an American car? I don't believe that.

Wasn't that what Delorean was?

Delorean was an Italian design and a French engine.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-04-24 13:50:15 and read 4068 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Well, every Cadillac is RWD now, so I don't see the point. Indeed, they were all FWD for a while, with the "flagship" being the FWD DeVille.

Wrong, Cadillac's new flagship, the XTS, is FWD (based on the Super Epsilon II platform, which will also be used for the 2014 Chevy Impala).

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: N1120A
Posted 2012-04-24 14:02:41 and read 4068 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 28):
Wrong, Cadillac's new flagship, the XTS, is FWD (based on the Super Epsilon II platform, which will also be used for the 2014 Chevy Impala).

Oh, that's weird. I guess all the old folks who got used to FWD didn't want to change  

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-04-24 14:53:49 and read 4045 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 28):
Wrong, Cadillac's new flagship, the XTS, is FWD (based on the Super Epsilon II platform, which will also be used for the 2014 Chevy Impala).

.

Which is why it will be a failure. You don't take a $20k car, slap on bodywork and chrome, and sell it for 2-3 times the price. You would have thought GM had learned that lesson in the 80s and 90s.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-04-24 15:16:24 and read 4031 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Which is why it will be a failure. You don't take a $20k car, slap on bodywork and chrome, and sell it for 2-3 times the price. You would have thought GM had learned that lesson in the 80s and 90s.

The XTS will share a platform with the Impala; the car itself will not be based on the Impala. Platform sharing is commonplace. For example the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300C used the same platform (LX) until recently, and the current Charger uses a platform (LD) that is based on it, and the Challenger uses a shortened version of it (LY). Mitsubishi and Chrysler designed a platform that both companies use, and Chrysler uses it for not only the 200, but also the Dodge Avenger, Dodge Caliber, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot, and the Dodge Journey/Fiat Freemont.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-04-24 16:51:49 and read 4007 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 31):
The XTS will share a platform with the Impala; the car itself will not be based on the Impala. Platform sharing is commonplace. For example the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300C used the same platform (LX) until recently, and the current Charger uses a platform (LD) that is based on it, and the Challenger uses a shortened version of it (LY). Mitsubishi and Chrysler designed a platform that both companies use, and Chrysler uses it for not only the 200, but also the Dodge Avenger, Dodge Caliber, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot, and the Dodge Journey/Fiat Freemont.

I rest my case. No luxury cars among them.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-04-24 20:34:36 and read 3976 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 24):
I doubt Fiat expects the 300/Thema to be a huge success in Europe.

They're basically selling the big American car without the big American engine. And considering that in the UK at least it is sold at A6/5 Series prices, it's no wonder why the 300 is largely ignored.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 31):
Platform sharing is commonplace.

There's a right way (downward) to do it and a wrong way (upward) to do it. The LX platform was based on the Mercedes E-Class and the Cherokee was built on the ML Class platform. Using a front wheel drive Impala platform to make a Cadillac is a poor idea.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 31):
Mitsubishi and Chrysler designed a platform that both companies use, and Chrysler uses it for not only the 200, but also the Dodge Avenger, Dodge Caliber, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot, and the Dodge Journey/Fiat Freemont.

Not helping your case.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-24 20:52:32 and read 3972 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
You don't take a $20k car, slap on bodywork and chrome, and sell it for 2-3 times the price.

Agreed but Cadillac doesn't even use chrome any more. It's just plastic cladding.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2012-04-24 22:34:57 and read 3964 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 33):
There's a right way (downward) to do it and a wrong way (upward) to do it. The LX platform was based on the Mercedes E-Class and the Cherokee was built on the ML Class platform. Using a front wheel drive Impala platform to make a Cadillac is a poor idea.

Platform sharing is the way of the world. You need economy of scale with these platforms - and we're not going to see 133 inch wheelbase Cadillac specific RWD platforms with a 500 cubic inch V-8 anytime in the future (as much as I would LOVE to see that happen). The new Cadillac ATS sedan is in production today because it will share it's RWD Alpha platform with the next generation 2015 Camaro and perhaps a Holden sedan. The cost of engineering a modern platform is, of course, huge and ANY automaker must make as many models as possible from a few common platforms is the only way to build them profitably. At least the XTS looks a hell of a lot nicer than the ugly boxy DTS sedan it replaced, and the XTS has optional all-wheel drive.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-24 23:54:42 and read 3958 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):

I rest my case. No luxury cars among them.

Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg and Audi Q7 are built on the same platform, which will also be used by Bentley, Bentley Continental and Flying Spur are built on the same platform as the VW Phaeton.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 33):
The LX platform was based on the Mercedes E-Class and the Cherokee was built on the ML Class platform.

Not true at all, the LX platform is a RWD conversion (using some Mercedes E & S class parts) of the previous LH platform, now the LH sat on the AMC Eagle chassis which was developed from Renaults 1983 25. It's a real pigs ear of a platform.

The Cherokee and the ML were part of a three way development which also included Mitsubishi, the next Pajero was to be built on the same platform, but that's not happening now.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: mad99
Posted 2012-04-24 23:59:01 and read 3951 times.

Delorean was an Italian design and a French engine.

I think it had a Volvo engine?

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-25 00:00:04 and read 3956 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 36):
now the LH sat on the AMC Eagle chassis which was developed from Renaults 1983 25.

  
The AMC Eagle was based on the AMC Hornet which came out in 1970 model year.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-25 00:09:44 and read 3953 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):

The AMC Eagle was based on the AMC Hornet which came out in 1970 model year.

I should have said AMC Eagle Premier, this ugly POS

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/1992_Eagle_Premier_ES_Limited.jpg

which is based on this

http://www.renault25club.nl/R25foto/Foto/blauwe%20turbo%20baccara.JPG

although you'd probably love the interior Superfly

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-25 00:13:11 and read 3947 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 39):
although you'd probably love the interior Superfly

That is a very nice interior and looks very comfortable.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-25 00:13:42 and read 3951 times.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 37):
I think it had a Volvo engine?

It had the PVR V6 which was a joint venture between Peugeot, Renault and Volvo, it was also used in the Eagle Premier and Dodge Monaco.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-04-25 22:08:39 and read 3872 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
There was an Imperial concept in 2006 but thanks to government regulations, they didn't go forward with it.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
How about something like this :

I like both designs! Even though our CAFE regulations nixed it Chrysler should consider reviving the Imperial if for nothing else that such a car would fly off the dealer lots in China. The Chinese now have a love jones for Buicks. A large back in the day styled luxo boat would do fine. The 300C is more a performance touring sedan. If Chrysler plays it's P's and Q's right (quality and popularity and satisfaction are on the upswing) post Fiat merger the time would be prime for an Imperial revival. And, they should have an up model Le Baron. Not every car has to have a generic alphabet/number's moniker like Lincoln does to the bulbous SUV's they foist on the car buying public.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-26 00:16:22 and read 3857 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 42):
And, they should have an up model Le Baron.

        
An upscale version of the current Challenger!   
Throw in some Corinthian leather too!

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-26 00:37:58 and read 3847 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Throw in some Corinthian leather too!

What exactly do you mean by Corinthian leather?

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-04-26 15:26:05 and read 3784 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 44):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Throw in some Corinthian leather too!

What exactly do you mean by Corinthian leather?

Sherman, set the Wayback Machine to 1975:

Note what is mentioned in 0:22-0:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-27 03:57:00 and read 3724 times.

so basically it's just marketing BS which Superfly has bought into, he's often referring to Corinthian leather, it's really noting more than a fancy name for leather, not even high quality leather, just bog standard leather.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-04-27 10:20:54 and read 3683 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 36):
Not true at all, the LX platform is a RWD conversion (using some Mercedes E & S class parts) of the previous LH platform

They lifted basically the whole suspensions from Benz. That pretty well counts as based on.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 36):
Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg and Audi Q7 are built on the same platform, which will also be used by Bentley, Bentley Continental and Flying Spur are built on the same platform as the VW Phaeton.

It works when you have a good platform and appropriate other components in the parts bin. American manufacturers tend to be rather poor at that.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
An upscale version of the current Challenger!

The cool thing about retro cars is that they bring back good memories. LeBarons are unlikely to do that. Not to mention that the last thing the Challenger needs is to add weight to its already bloated figure for a coupe.

What Chrysler needs to do is make a couple cars on the Maserati GranTurismo/Quattroporte platform. Make a two or four seat convertible (and maybe coupe) to compete with the 6 Series and Mercedes SL, maybe with styling based on the Firepower concept. Then adapt the Quattroporte platform to build a four door coupe style car to compete with the BMW GranCoupe, A7, and Mercedes CLS. (I really like the hatchback style of the A7, which Chrysler experimented with in an uglier form via the Nassau concept) Power both of the new models with a more powerful Pentastar V6 and a Hemi for the top models.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
so basically it's just marketing BS which Superfly has bought into, he's often referring to Corinthian leather, it's really noting more than a fancy name for leather, not even high quality leather, just bog standard leather.

It's one of those weird things from the 1970s and 80s that really wasn't cool at all but for some reason a few people haven't seen the light.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-04-27 13:39:52 and read 3663 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 47):

They lifted basically the whole suspensions from Benz. That pretty well counts as based on.



The platform is more than just suspension components.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 47):



What Chrysler needs to do is make a couple cars on the Maserati GranTurismo/Quattroporte platform.

It's a very expensive platform with a transaxel, any Chrysler built on that platform is also going to be a very expensive Chrylser, Fita have already ruled out using the Maserati platform for other products due to its cost.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 47):
Then adapt the Quattroporte platform to build a four door coupe style car to compete with the BMW GranCoupe, A7, and Mercedes CLS.

The top end CLS, A7 and forthcoming Grandsport already compete with the Quattroporte, Maserati doesn't need to go down market.

[Edited 2012-04-27 13:40:39]

[Edited 2012-04-27 13:41:56]

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-04-27 14:43:28 and read 3650 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
The platform is more than just suspension components.

That's why it's "based on" rather than being the same platform.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
It's a very expensive platform with a transaxel, any Chrysler built on that platform is also going to be a very expensive Chrylser,

Chryslers should be expensive. Otherwise it's a Dodge or a Fiat or an Alfa Romeo. Really I don't see any reason for the Fiat brand stateside other than to sell the 500.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
The top end CLS, A7 and forthcoming Grandsport already compete with the Quattroporte, Maserati doesn't need to go down market.

No they don't need to come downmarket. Chrysler needs to go upmarket and compete with the German brands. Really even the 300C is only borderline competitive.

[Edited 2012-04-27 14:49:16]

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-04-27 21:14:55 and read 3616 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 47):
It's one of those weird things from the 1970s and 80s that really wasn't cool at all but for some reason a few people haven't seen the light.

Are you kidding? The whole Corinthian leather gimmick was a joke from day one. It's just fun to poke fun at it for those who can see the humor.
When I visited Corinth, Greece I did mention it to a few locals. They had never heard of it but thought the marketing gimmick was hilarious.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-05-04 22:08:04 and read 3407 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
Both Cadillac and Chrysler tried making FWD-based limos on their own during the mid-to-late 80s but failed miserably, especially Chrysler due to its underpowered 4-cylinder engine.

you mean this?

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-04 22:43:59 and read 3395 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 51):
you mean this?

That is the most comical limousine ever produced.  

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2012-05-04 23:04:35 and read 3390 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
Agreed but Cadillac doesn't even use chrome any more. It's just plastic cladding.

Fly, virtually NO mass-produced car today utilizes chrome. You know that - because chrome weights too much and affects fuel-economy estimates with the EPA.... the whole ugly stupid CAFE standards thing.

And this was the zenith of luxury Chryslers in the last 35 years..... the Frank Sinatra edition of the 1981 Chrysler Imperial - with the "Mark Cross" designer leather interior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSsUcP13j6E&feature=related

[Edited 2012-05-04 23:07:01]

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-04 23:44:25 and read 3381 times.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 53):
And this was the zenith of luxury Chryslers in the last 35 years..... the Frank Sinatra edition of the 1981 Chrysler Imperial - with the "Mark Cross" designer leather interior.

  
That is a great car and very modern too. I have the 3-tape 8track cartridge set that came with that car. It's all Frank Sinatra songs.
I know a retired pimp in San Francisco that still drives his R-body Imperial coupe.
He used to drive a Cadillac Eldorado in his pimping days in the 1970s (at least that's what he told me). When he stopped pimping, he bought his Imperial in 1981 and just lives a quiet humble life in his small home in the hills. He's in his 70s now.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-05-05 04:57:31 and read 3366 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 52):
That is the most comical limousine ever produced.

This might top it:



Or Chrysler could build this:

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: WildcatYXU
Posted 2012-05-05 05:21:13 and read 3357 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 55):

If you think it's bad, look at this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3475/3778276120_42f67a7e3f_z.jpg

Or this:

http://www.autoindex.sk/images/galer...limousine1_20080720_1255764633.jpg

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-05-05 06:27:48 and read 3347 times.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 53):
Fly, virtually NO mass-produced car today utilizes chrome.

Excuse me?

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-05 07:25:04 and read 3341 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 55):
This might top it:

That is a aftermarket custom job. The K-car limousine was a factory assembly line production vehicle available to consumers.
BTW, I did see that exact AMC Pacer limo from Wayne's World being shipped by truck in Los Angeles on I-210.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 57):
Excuse me?

That is all plastic made to 'look' like chrome.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-05-05 22:26:15 and read 3277 times.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 56):
http://www.autoindex.sk/images/galeria/img_originals/skoda120limousine1_20080720_1255764633.jpg

these and that Pacer limo. I guess those designers had too much free time.

How about a Chrysler Imperial retro boat based on this:


And GM could do a limo boat based on this: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081115045704/fallout/images/8/83/Corvega_TL.jpg

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-05 23:38:05 and read 3273 times.

Chrysler did offer limousine's from the factory up till 1965.
The 1957-1965 models were very expensive and were twice as much as the offerings from Cadillac and Lincoln. This was because the full-size Imperials were shipped to Italy to be stretched and all interior finishes was done by Ghia in Italy.
First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy and also Vice President Nelson Rockefeller owned a 1960 Chrysler Crown Imperial limousine by Ghia.


http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1960/Kennedy/JackieImpProfile-reg.jpg


http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1958/Limo/GhiaAd.jpg

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-05-06 06:31:27 and read 3255 times.

Ok one last one:







Did anyone buy Chrysler 300C Executive Hurst Edition? It had a 6 inch longer wheel base but I never saw any on the road to my knowledge.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-06 07:40:21 and read 3243 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 61):

Ok one last one:
404 - File or directory not found.

No image.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-05-06 14:20:17 and read 3218 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 62):
404 - File or directory not found.

No image.

I'll try again with a different pic

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-05-07 09:12:41 and read 3142 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 61):
Did anyone buy Chrysler 300C Executive Hurst Edition? It had a 6 inch longer wheel base but I never saw any on the road to my knowledge.

I may have seen one or two of those on the road. Those were essentially similar to what the Lincoln Town Car L series was; a stretched rear door for added rear seat leg room but no additional seating for passengers beyond what the standard length models offered.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: kiwirob
Posted 2012-05-07 09:42:31 and read 3130 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 61):
Did anyone buy Chrysler 300C Executive Hurst Edition? It had a 6 inch longer wheel base but I never saw any on the road to my knowledge.

But not a factory stretch, these were built by Performance West Group, another company called Accubuilt provided the stretch, the only reason why I know this is there is one that lives in my little Norwegian town, I was talking to the owner about it a few weeks ago. The gold paint one the bonnet and boot kills it IMO.

They also built another one called the WP 300C Rodeo Drive with a long wheel base

http://www.allpar.com/photos/chrysler/300C-Rodeo-Drive/300C.jpg

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-07 09:55:19 and read 3131 times.

All Chrysler fans and people who are interested in the history of full-sized Chrysler and Imperials need to visit this page;

http://www.imperialclub.com/

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/index.htm




Sad that Chrysler limousines went from this;
(1965 - last limousine available from Chrysler until...

http://www.ingraham.biz/cars/ghiapicts/65lims.jpg

http://www.ingraham.biz/cars/ghiapicts/65limin.jpg


...1983 with this)



These small compact K-based limos were powered by a little 2.2 liter turbocharged engine that only put out only 135HP, (146HP for 1986) and was front-drive.

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-05-07 21:56:29 and read 3069 times.

I remember seeing a couple of those little K limos on the road.

There were a handful of the aftermarket LHS stretch limos on the road - these were also underpowered with a 3.6 liter engine

Topic: RE: Should Chrysler Make A Car Above The 300C?
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-05-08 00:19:16 and read 3048 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 67):
There were a handful of the aftermarket LHS stretch limos on the road - these were also underpowered with a 3.6 liter engine

Bob Dole had one when he ran for President in 1996.


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