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Topic: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: klmcedric
Posted 2012-07-25 07:37:29 and read 4444 times.

I live in Belgium, I've been commuting to Amsterdam for the past ten years. I've also driven cars in lots of countries
around the world and there's one particular driving style that occurs rather occasionally in most countries but seems
to be the standard in the Netherlands and it concerns changing lanes and overtaking.

I always learned that when I'm, for instance, driving the right or middle lane and I want to overtake another vehicle,
I put on my signal and check my mirrors for oncoming faster traffic. If there is traffic, it is me offcourse that should give way
because I am planning to change my trajectory. Logic, no??

In Holland it's different, people who change lanes put on there blinker and do so, seemingly , without caring if there's faster
traffic coming , which will then need to hit the brakes, along with other traffic following that car.

Not only is this unbelievably irritating, it's also dangerous, and if you ask me induces traffic jams.

So please, can someone explain to me, WHY OH WHY ?????

The funny thing is that when you encounter dutch drivers in Belgium, Germany, France, etc, they seem to adapt
their driving style to the local one, go figure !!!

Other then that, no fuss with the dutch, I hope you don't take offence, but after ten years of enduring this I
thought I'd enquire if you're at least aware of this, and that you could maybe provide me with some logical explanationµ
for this.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-07-25 08:02:14 and read 4418 times.

"Schwarze Schrift auf gelbem Grund, halte Abstand, bleib gesund!" ("Black letters on yellow background, keep distance, stay healthy!", refering to Dutch number plates).  
Here where I live, in a rural and quite hilly part of western Germany (near HHN), there are lots of Dutch pensioners going on vacation. Most of them have serious problems driving in the hills.

Jan

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-07-25 08:05:24 and read 4416 times.

Quoting klmcedric (Thread starter):

Not sure this is a Dutch thing - there is very little lane or speed discipline here in the US and it drives me nuts.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-07-25 08:24:11 and read 4396 times.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 2):
Not sure this is a Dutch thing - there is very little lane or speed discipline here in the US and it drives me nuts.


Not sure where you've been driving, but I've spent a considerable amount of time driving cross-country this year (about 4000 miles) and that has not been my experience. Out on the open interstates, there is plenty of lane discipline. People signal, people speed up or slow down as necessary to match traffic and then change lanes. Of course, there is the occasional, I'll call them 'inattentive drivers', that stay in the left lane at some speed less than that lane is moving. But, they are far and few in between.

Now, as you approach major urban areas, all bets are off. And, it really depends on the city you're driving into/away from.

Quoting klmcedric (Thread starter):
So please, can someone explain to me, WHY OH WHY ?????


Having never been in Holland or met any recent Dutch drivers; is there a national sense of 'I let you know I'm coming, so I'm coming' attitude?

I know, when I lived and learned to drive in NY, that was certainly the case. I did the best I could to match the speed in the lane I was going to enter, signaled my intention and, after a brief look, entered the lane and made further adjustments, sometimes forcing the vehicle that is now behind me to make some 'minor' speed adjustments.

It was the drivers' attitudes.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: 9MMPQ
Posted 2012-07-25 12:04:01 and read 4293 times.

I'll be the first Dutch guy to respond then 

Can't really agree with it being a standard. Seen it happen yes, but more then say, slower traffic not keeping to the right, excessive speeding etc etc etc ? No, not particularly & i'm regularly on the highways.

There's probably a whole list of things we can name which all of us, regardless of nationality, can relate to to some degree.

PS .. No offence taken at all.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-07-25 12:36:10 and read 4271 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Not sure where you've been driving, but I've spent a considerable amount of time driving cross-country this year (about 4000 miles) and that has not been my experience. Out on the open interstates, there is plenty of lane discipline. People signal, people speed up or slow down as necessary to match traffic and then change lanes. Of course, there is the occasional, I'll call them 'inattentive drivers', that stay in the left lane at some speed less than that lane is moving. But, they are far and few in between.

Now, as you approach major urban areas, all bets are off. And, it really depends on the city you're driving into/away from.

Fair enough...I haven't taken any good long road trips in the past 10 years but what you say above sounds better than I remember.

Most of my recent driving has been on the Garden State Parkway.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: kiwirob
Posted 2012-07-25 12:46:05 and read 4265 times.

That's not as annoying as Norwegian drivers who believe the open road limit (80kph) is just a guideline and that 60 to 70 kph is much better, what makes this even more annoying is that Norwegian road builders don't build passing lanes. When these people go to Denmark or Sweden despite both countries have limits up to 130kph the Norwegian driver still has an issue driving over 80kph. Driving anywhere in Norway is extremely frustrating.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: Ferminios
Posted 2012-07-25 12:56:18 and read 4255 times.

There are some drivers here who indeed don't care about the others on the road, but I guess we're not an exception in that. That said, In my short driving career so far I've far encountered the most close calls with what the OP describes in.... Belgium!

First prize goes to the A12 between Antwerp and Brussels, I encounter a situation like this pretty much every time I drive there: In front of me I see a Twingo pulling into the left lane , this while an Audi races past me on the left hand side well over the speed limit, and I can tell you, that Audi shouldn't have hit the brakes a second later.  

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: KaiGywer
Posted 2012-07-25 13:21:48 and read 4229 times.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
That's not as annoying as Norwegian drivers who believe the open road limit (80kph) is just a guideline and that 60 to 70 kph is much better, what makes this even more annoying is that Norwegian road builders don't build passing lanes. When these people go to Denmark or Sweden despite both countries have limits up to 130kph the Norwegian driver still has an issue driving over 80kph. Driving anywhere in Norway is extremely frustrating.

Probably because Utrykningspolitiet likes hiding and if caught at 1 kph over the limit, you get a fine that could buy you a house in some third world country  
Quoting klmcedric (Thread starter):
The Dutch Higway Driving Style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyXgMal3C1U

Sorry, couldn't help it   

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: PlymSpotter
Posted 2012-07-25 13:59:08 and read 4203 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Most of them have serious problems driving in the hills.

There is an annual invasion of Dutch tourists to the South West of England too, with it's very steep and twisty roads. It's not uncommon to see a Dutch car 'stuck' on a hill, anything over about a 20% gradient and I tend to stand back and watch until they are done or even give up. To be fair though the gradients here are anything up to 30%.


Dan  

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: lewis
Posted 2012-07-25 14:11:58 and read 4192 times.

I have driven in the Netherlands once, I didn't notice what you describe, at least no more than in other countries where there are also some stupid people who change lanes without even looking.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
"Schwarze Schrift auf gelbem Grund, halte Abstand, bleib gesund!" ("Black letters on yellow background, keep distance, stay healthy!", refering to Dutch number plates).

You forgot the NL on the side of the license plate for "Never Learned"   A joke I picked up in Munich, where there was a surprisingly high number of Dutch RVs.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: petertenthije
Posted 2012-07-25 14:25:10 and read 4180 times.

Quoting lewis (Reply 10):
You forgot the NL on the side of the license plate for "Never Learned"

I though it stood for "Nur Links"?

[Edited 2012-07-25 14:35:50]

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-07-25 14:33:52 and read 4173 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 2):
Not sure this is a Dutch thing - there is very little lane or speed discipline here in the US and it drives me nuts.


Not sure where you've been driving, but I've spent a considerable amount of time driving cross-country this year (about 4000 miles) and that has not been my experience.

I moved back to the US 6 years ago, after spending 20 years overseas. It took me a full six months before I could bring myself to pass someone on the right. People here think the left lane is "for when you don't want to deal with people merging in and out of the freeway". Seriously.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: lewis
Posted 2012-07-25 14:53:27 and read 4148 times.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 11):
I though it stood for "Nur Links"?

Never heard that, what does it mean?

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: airkas1
Posted 2012-07-25 15:17:24 and read 4139 times.

Quoting lewis (Reply 13):
Never heard that, what does it mean?

It's "only (on the) left" in German.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: kaneporta1
Posted 2012-07-25 16:55:09 and read 4109 times.

Quoting klmcedric (Thread starter):
I always learned that when I'm, for instance, driving the right or middle lane and I want to overtake another vehicle,
I put on my signal and check my mirrors for oncoming faster traffic. If there is traffic, it is me offcourse that should give way
because I am planning to change my trajectory. Logic, no??

In Holland it's different, people who change lanes put on there blinker and do so, seemingly , without caring if there's faster
traffic coming , which will then need to hit the brakes, along with other traffic following that car.

So, it's almost like in Quebec then, the main difference being, in Quebec, people don't bother with signaling or checking mirrors...

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-07-25 17:31:41 and read 4086 times.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 2):

Not sure this is a Dutch thing - there is very little lane or speed discipline here in the US and it drives me nuts.

OMG. Northern California is horrible for people driving 55 MPH in the left lane. Do you not see the signs all over the place that read: "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT"?

Invariably, it's a tiny Asian lady in a Toyota Sienna or sometimes a Honda Odyssey. Call me racist, but it's true >80% of the time. I have learned to avoid Toyota Siennas like the plague.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
I moved back to the US 6 years ago, after spending 20 years overseas. It took me a full six months before I could bring myself to pass someone on the right. People here think the left lane is "for when you don't want to deal with people merging in and out of the freeway". Seriously.

Florida is the worst. Remember, Europeans, that the U.S. has much more liberal licensing policies. No age limits, not even tests of vision and reaction time after a certain age, given that the AARP is one of the largest political lobbying groups in existence. In Florida, standard experience is to see some land ship (of the sort Superfly would love) driving at about 45 MPH in the left lane with the left blinker on. Turning into a driveway requires coming to almost a full stop.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Not sure where you've been driving, but I've spent a considerable amount of time driving cross-country this year (about 4000 miles) and that has not been my experience. Out on the open interstates, there is plenty of lane discipline.

And cruise control use, which is key. The Bay Area is hilly, so a lot of people who aren't using the cruise control simply have trouble maintaining a constant speed while watching the road. I use cruise control, so I always find myself hitting the "cancel" button to avoid driving up their arses.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: prebennorholm
Posted 2012-07-25 19:04:37 and read 4050 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Here where I live, in a rural and quite hilly part of western Germany (near HHN), there are lots of Dutch pensioners going on vacation. Most of them have serious problems driving in the hills.

On vacation in Switzerland I learned that the worst "four letter word" in Switzerland is "Dutch camping trailer".

The locals explained to me that Dutchmen seem to think that every mountain pass on the map is suitable for a camping trailer.

When I am on holiday in Switzerland (at least once a year for the last 25 years) then I am often mistaken for a Dutchman, even if I never brought a camping trailer with me. When I arrive, then the rumor spreads like a wildfire all over the village: "The Dutchman has arrived".

In Switzerland, when you don't speak either Swiss German, proper Hochdeutsch, or at least Bavarian, but only some broken German language, then you are automatically considered a Dutchman. You don't need to get stuck with a camping trailer on a narrow mountain road to be considered a Dutchman, but it helps.

Heard in the Migros supermarket:
"There is no NZZ on the newspaper shelf. Is it out of stock?".
"Yes, the Dutchman bought the last one".

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: 757MDE
Posted 2012-07-25 19:50:49 and read 4037 times.

I drove between The Hague and Dusseldorf and back and then between The Hague and Liege and back while also visiting Amsterdam, Maastrich, Antwerpen and others and I honestly did not notice this (maybe one or two but nothing that I would classify as "characteristic"). But then again, it was just a couple weeks driving there.

It may be though, that I am used to Colombia which is hell to drive on (but I have to as long as I live here) and that gives mass driving licenses when you buy bags of chips.

What I did not like about driving in the Netherlands though was the many cameras with the sometimes ridiculous speed limits given the overall good and plain roads. I was always happy when I got into Germany.

[Edited 2012-07-25 19:52:15]

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: kiwirob
Posted 2012-07-25 23:38:39 and read 3982 times.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Probably because Utrykningspolitiet likes hiding and if caught at 1 kph over the limit, you get a fine that could buy you a house in some third world country

You can get away with about 5kph over the limit before you'll be stopped or trigger a speed camera.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: iakobos
Posted 2012-07-26 04:18:39 and read 3895 times.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
It's not uncommon to see a Dutch car 'stuck' on a hill, anything over about a 20% gradient and I tend to stand back and watch until they are done or even give up.

While on holidays, Dutch carry a full complement of potatoes, peanut butter, milk and cheap cookies, that explains the speed and restricted climbing capabilities.

Quoting klmcedric (Thread starter):
In Holland it's different, people who change lanes put on there blinker and do so, seemingly , without caring if there's faster traffic coming , which will then need to hit the brakes, along with other traffic following that car.

The Dutch car market, like everything else btw, is savvy conscious. That's why blinkers are optional in the Netherlands.

If you come across an erratic driving NL car, it's likely that the driver is wearing clogs.  

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: JCKastrup
Posted 2012-07-26 04:54:52 and read 3882 times.

I just drove a long distance in Sweden and saw a lot of Dutch cars. But they were all driving ok.

The Norwegians however were keen to get home very fast...

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: klmcedric
Posted 2012-07-26 07:31:07 and read 3835 times.

It's obvious you have complete and utter idiots on the road in any given country, not in the least in my own country,
but this thing where a driver puts on his left blinker (driving approw 100kph) and then just moves to the left lane
not caring that I'm like 50m behind doing a 130kph, which then leads to my brakes almost overheating , that
for me is a dutch invented fenomenon. It just happens all the time there, while in other countries it's less of a
natural behaviour for drivers.
Sometimes I am under the impression that the dutch learn this in driving school.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: petertenthije
Posted 2012-07-26 08:43:56 and read 3809 times.

The behavior you describe is probably more common in the Randstad area then the rest of the country. From your routing (ANT > AMS) you mostly drive in the Randstad. Therefor the chance for encountering this behavior is more likely.

The behavior is not justifiable, but it can be explained. The Randstad (in particular) was heavily gridlocked. That means that if you want to move from the slow lane into the fast lane, you'd better take any opportunity you can get. Even if it means being a complete jackass. If you wait for someone to politely let you merge, then you'll be stuck behind a lorry for ages. You'll find that where road capacity is more suited to demand the driving is a lot better.

As you probably know the last 5 or so years there have been mayor road works all over the country, but particularly in the Noord Holland (everything south of Amsterdam), Gelderland (A12, A50) and Utrecht (everything!) areas. The Entire A2 from Den Bosch to Amsterdam has had lanes added (Eindhoven to Den Bosch is still a building site). The A2 between Amsterdan and Utrecht has gone from 2x3 very narrow lanes to 2x5 wide lanes with two emergency shoulders on either side. The Rotterdam area is still a mess, but there are massive projects there as well. Hopefully this should improve the city folk's driving style.

As for the general opinion that Dutch drivers are bad, I think that is a fair assessment. I believe the reason a lot of Dutch drivers are not that good is because they are being dumbed down by the government. A lot of roads in the Netherlands have been downgraded: they have been narrowed, speed limit lowered (along with speed bumps, cameras and chicanes), overtaking disallowed (sometimes even made impossible with barriers), intersections replaced with roundabouts and turbo-roundabouts and did I already mention of traffic cameras? This has made the Netherlands one of the safest countries in the world. But it also means that a lot of drivers appear to have lost their feeling for traffic.

You can't blame a Dutchmen for not knowing how to drive in mountains. Most Dutchmen will never encounter anything steeper then a speed bump. In fairness though, a speed bump can easily be a steep as the steepest mountain in Switzerland! Just not quite as tall!  

I do believe Belgians are worse then Dutch drivers though! But I can perfectly understand the other countries complaining about us.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: Rara
Posted 2012-07-26 09:07:06 and read 3796 times.

Apparently if you'll fail your driving test more than three times in Holland, you'll be given a yellow number plate as a warning to other drivers.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 11):
I though it stood for "Nur Links"?

Nah, it stands for "Nur Limo" (only lemonade), because that's all they buy - reason being:

Quoting iakobos (Reply 20):
While on holidays, Dutch carry a full complement of potatoes, peanut butter, milk and cheap cookies,

No seriously   I've always found driving in the Netherlands to be very pleasant. The roads are great, the general speed limit is a blessing and drivers are mostly considerate.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: JRadier
Posted 2012-07-26 09:34:27 and read 3878 times.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyXgMal3C1U

Sorry, couldn't help it   

Whahahahahahahahaha amazing! Thanks for posting!

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: David L
Posted 2012-07-26 11:02:34 and read 3851 times.

Ah... Dutch, Belgians and Germans discussing each other's driving. It doesn't get much funnier than that.   

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyXgMal3C1U

Sorry, couldn't help it

   Ditto   

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Now, as you approach major urban areas, all bets are off. And, it really depends on the city you're driving into/away from.

Same here. I often take the M8 motorway through Glasgow and the rule seems to be that the more lanes there are, the faster you can go in the inside lane. Weaving through the path of least resistance seems to be the norm. The vacuum created by the increasing width of the road seems to extract common sense through the windows.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 2):
there is very little lane or speed discipline here in the US and it drives me nuts.

My driving experience in the USA only amounts to 3 weeks about 20 years ago but that's what I experienced. Trying to defend myself from "undertaking" was bad enough in a Ford Taurus but in a Dodge van it was a complete lottery. However, that experience was mostly on the...

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 5):
Garden State Parkway

and New Jersey Turnpike!   

A lot of Americans here mocked my 3 weeks in Asbury Park/West Longbranch but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Plenty of time to see the well-trodden tourist areas later.  

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-07-26 11:14:43 and read 3872 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
And cruise control use, which is key. The Bay Area is hilly, so a lot of people who aren't using the cruise control simply have trouble maintaining a constant speed while watching the road. I use cruise control, so I always find myself hitting the "cancel" button to avoid driving up their arses.


My wife has the uncanny ability to maintain speed and lane...at the same same time without using the cruise control. All this while hurtling down the interstate at speeds that would make Jean-Luc run into James T. and the whales.

I do not allow her to drive when we go cross country,

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: vandenheuvel
Posted 2012-07-26 11:52:46 and read 3840 times.

I have to agree with the op. People simply don't understand you can't merge while driving at a different speed. Also because we're not allowed to take over on the right, and people being overly afraid of missing their exit, it totally sucks driving here.

Next to that, Dutchmen with trailers don't understand how much I hate it when they take over doing only 80kp/h while I'm approaching with 180. Happens to me in Germany every time again. (Keeping in mind that my Prius only reaches this speed when it has a full battey).

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-07-26 14:58:51 and read 3774 times.

Actually my main complaint are Dutch long distance truck drivers. I used to live in Mönchengladbach and used to drive down the A61 every evening for nightshift in CGN.
The A61 starts in Venlo at the border between the Netherlands and runs down southwards towards the Frankfurt area, from where there are connections to southern and eastern Europe, so it is one of the busiest transit Autobahns.
I know that the Dutch police is very strict, but it seems that once across the border the drivers don´t care anymore. I´ve been on several occasions almost been kicked off the road by a Dutch truck driver who suddenly without indicating, pulled out into the left lane, just to overtake another truck which was maybe 5 km/h slower than him.
These trucks tend to exceed the maximum speed for trucks (80 km/h) by a large margin, I assume that the overspeed govenor got deactivated (illegal as per EU rules). I´ve heard that the Dutch trucking companies just give the drivers an envelope full of cash to pay the fines if caught and that the possible fines are already included in the ill to the customer.

Then, when it starts snowing (especially in the hills south of Bonn), many of these trucks are not equipped with winter tyres. Still they keep on speeding. I once was in a situation where all normal cars were going 50 km/h in the right lane because the road was extremely slippery and visibility was at about 50 metres, and still the heavy trucks kept passing us in the left lane at 90 km/h.
Until they run downhill, lose the brakes and jackknive, blocking the whole road for hours, even if they are lucky and nobody gets hurt.

Jan

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2012-07-26 15:10:40 and read 3769 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Most of them have serious problems driving in the hills.

Hi Jan, well that's hardly surprising considering The Netherlands is all flat, with some small bumps they call hills, in the south of the country, and the odd speed hump in shopping center car parks !!   

But seriously, this problem can also be directed at Australian drivers, not only the Dutch, who do the same when changing lanes.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: petertenthije
Posted 2012-07-26 16:17:35 and read 3752 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 29):
These trucks tend to exceed the maximum speed for trucks (80 km/h) by a large margin,

Dutch trucks have a governor, same as German trucks. It's set at ~87 KPH. When the police find out about disabled governors the fines are massive, and I believe the truck driver also looses his permit. The police don't even have to measure the speed of the truck. The tachograph can also be used for that.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 29):
I´ve heard that the Dutch trucking companies just give the drivers an envelope full of cash to pay the fines if caught

Never heard of that myself, and I've been in logistics for several years now.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 29):
Then, when it starts snowing (especially in the hills south of Bonn), many of these trucks are not equipped with winter tyres.

Actually, on reasonably level terrain trucks don't require winter tires because of their high weight. For that reason winter tires are not mandatory on trucks (or cars) in the Netherlands. In Germany winter tires for trucks are only mandatory for the wheels on the drive shaft.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: JRadier
Posted 2012-07-26 16:41:04 and read 3738 times.

Quoting vandenheuvel (Reply 28):

Next to that, Dutchmen with trailers don't understand how much I hate it when they take over doing only 80kp/h while I'm approaching with 180. Happens to me in Germany every time again. (Keeping in mind that my Prius only reaches this speed when it has a full battey).

As always, there are two sides to a story, but this one needs a bit of nuance. Yes, loads of my fellow countrymen (with or without trailers) do not know how to properly drive on the German autobahn. It annoys the heck out of me when driving in Germany and a dutchman slams his caravan in front of my car in the left lane.

However, it is not your (in general, not you specifically Tim) lane, neither is it mine. I have driving with glider trailers (both myself and driving with others) in Germany for years now and Germans can (and often are!) freaking impatient. I think we can agree there are times where you have to overtake and you can safely go to the left lane without hindering anyone. Add to this that that glider trailer contains an aircraft that can very well be worth over EUR100.000 and the drivers are usually pretty careful. However, the trailers are long and combinations are often 10+ meters long and with those trailers you cannot speed up properly as they can get quite unstable at higher speeds.

But even if you start your overtaking nicely and not hindering anyone, it is going to take a while before you pass the other car and you can go back into the right lane. I'm happy for you to drive 180km/h and I will do anything I can not to hinder when overtaking, but can you PLEASE give me some time so I can safely overtake the other car? It might take me 45 seconds, but I'm trying to be safe here. Full braking at the last minute while you could see the situation for a long time, flashing your lights and tailgating really isn't going to help anything! Come on guys, we share this road, let's keep it safe and friendly together shall we? Not every yellow licence plate means an idiot, sometimes you just have to have a little bit of patience.

Rant over!

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: KaiGywer
Posted 2012-07-26 22:01:45 and read 3693 times.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):
You can get away with about 5kph over the limit before you'll be stopped or trigger a speed camera.

I still don't think it's fair to give me my ticket for 60 in a 40 when I was passing the guy going 30  
Quoting petertenthije (Reply 23):
In fairness though, a speed bump can easily be a steep as the steepest mountain in Switzerland! Just not quite as tall!

  

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: incitatus
Posted 2012-07-28 14:10:51 and read 3546 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Florida is the worst.

The entire USA has become a terrible place to drive as hand-held devices spread. Signaling? What is that? You know a driver is about to change lanes when he/she switches the iphone from the left hand to the right hand.

At least 25% of the drivers on the road are texting at any time, 40% are using the phone, 20% are eating a meal, 20% are drinking soda, 10% of the women are doing make-up, 10% of the men are reading books or newspapers, 5% of the truck-drivers are working out with dumbels.

Automakers need to realize the age of driving is over and it is time to automate the whole thing.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-07-28 14:46:21 and read 3532 times.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 31):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 29):
Then, when it starts snowing (especially in the hills south of Bonn), many of these trucks are not equipped with winter tyres.

Actually, on reasonably level terrain trucks don't require winter tires because of their high weight. For that reason winter tires are not mandatory on trucks (or cars) in the Netherlands. In Germany winter tires for trucks are only mandatory for the wheels on the drive shaft.

I would check the German traffic rules, if I were you. Since about 5 years you have to have tyres fitting to the conditions on all wheels.
This means if there is snow and ice you need proper snow tyres (they have the symbol of a snow crystal on them).
If not you can get fined and if you are involved in an accident you´ll lose your insurance cover.

Jan

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: voodoo
Posted 2012-07-28 15:31:22 and read 3515 times.

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 7):
There are some drivers here who indeed don't care about the others on the road, but I guess we're not an exception in that. That said, In my short driving career so far I've far encountered the most close calls with what the OP describes in.... Belgium!

Completely agree. Belgium is the only country where I've actually witnessed more than 1 accident in a day! On multiple days. And been the victim of an insurance scam whereby some Belgian took my foreign number plate down and said my car damaged his, when it had been parked unmoved at a wedding (with 100 guests/witnesses) for 2 days (my version of accounts held/won).

[Edited 2012-07-28 15:33:04]

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: petertenthije
Posted 2012-07-28 15:33:19 and read 3512 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 35):
I would check the German traffic rules, if I were you. Since about 5 years you have to have tyres fitting to the conditions on all wheels.

That is true for passenger cars. But for commercial vehicles over 3,5 tonnes this only applies to the wheels on the drive shaft(s). This is current as of February 1st 2012, so unless something changed after that trucks are partially exempt.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: eurowings
Posted 2012-07-28 15:48:38 and read 3502 times.

I often see a Dutch registered lorry parked up near my local florist here in Northern England, as far as I know it's driven well and according to the shop owner always delivers on time!

In the Lake District, I encountered a driver from Germany, who seemed to be applying "links vor rechts" (i.e. "rechts vor links" if you're driving on the right hand side) on road in a village. There is no such rule in the UK, traffic from the left does not have priority unless indicated by a road sign. I knew what he was doing, since I have lived in Germany, but most other drivers here wouldn't.

The moral of the story is have a quick look at any important highway rules of other countries and that applies to every nationality!

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 17):
n Switzerland, when you don't speak either Swiss German, proper Hochdeutsch, or at least Bavarian, but only some broken German language, then you are automatically considered a Dutchman.

A lot of German speaking people think I'm Dutch for some reason. I asked for a cake in a bakery in Bonn last year and the lady serving replied with "een of twee?". Good job I do know some (very) basic Dutch!

[Edited 2012-07-28 16:00:28]

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2012-07-28 20:01:09 and read 3439 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
In Florida, standard experience is to see some land ship (of the sort Superfly would love) driving at about 45 MPH in the left lane with the left blinker on. Turning into a driveway requires coming to almost a full stop.

Same thing here in Arizona - but it usually involves a huge RV (sporting a license plate from an upper Midwest state - damn snowbirds!) with a "pull vehicle" in the left lane (left signal flashing away!)going at least 10 miles per hour less than the posted speed limit. This is especially annoying on certain stretches of Interstate 10 in the open desert areas outside of the metro Phoenix area - where the speed limit is a posted 85 MPH! Ugh!   

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2012-07-28 20:21:08 and read 3432 times.

As I'm not a driver, I only have one occurrence to share...

I returned from a hiking trip near Arolla ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arolla ) two years ago, and my 60-seat bus followed a Dutch car with trailer for half an hour... no, are Dutch are not accustomed to hairpin turns. 

The idea of letting the bus pass didn't occur to the driver.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 17):

Great story!   


David

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: oldman55
Posted 2012-07-28 22:27:38 and read 3412 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
People here think the left lane is "for when you don't want to deal with people merging in and out of the freeway". Seriously.

Im afraid that is a pretty good description of me   I do try to go at least 5 miles over the posted limit so I am not completely slowing everyone else down; just 75% lol.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2012-07-28 23:00:44 and read 3408 times.

Here in the USA, if the posted speed limit on our limited access freeways is 65 mph (105 km/h) for automobiles, you better drive at least 70 mph (113 km/h) or you'll get passed by everyone in sight.

I really have to wonder if the Dutch are driving vehicles with just a tad too small an engine due to excise tax and vehicle registration regulations that favors smaller engines. Only my opinion, but maybe the Dutch are used to driving cars with smaller engines and their driving style reflects that fact?

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-07-29 00:33:35 and read 3384 times.

While we're on the topic:

Dear NorCal drivers:

They are called "speed bumps," not "stop bumps."

Sincerely,

-Me

I especially love the people who have their cars so lowered that they have to take speed bumps achingly slowly and on an diagonal. Those are my FAVORITE.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 42):
Here in the USA, if the posted speed limit on our limited access freeways is 65 mph (105 km/h) for automobiles, you better drive at least 70 mph (113 km/h) or you'll get passed by everyone in sight.

Unless you're on I-80 in NorCal, in which case it's "drive your Toyota Sienna at 55MPH in the left lane while sucking your teeth and hunching forward and squinting."

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2012-07-29 06:01:47 and read 3325 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Unless you're on I-80 in NorCal, in which case it's "drive your Toyota Sienna at 55MPH in the left lane while sucking your teeth and hunching forward and squinting."

I don't know--if you're talking the current or previous generation Toyota Sienna minivan, I've seen many of them zip by me on I-80 west of Sacramento at 75 mph (120 km/h)--or sometimes higher!  Wow!

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: klmcedric
Posted 2012-07-29 06:07:39 and read 3331 times.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 23):
I do believe Belgians are worse then Dutch drivers though! But I can perfectly understand the other countries complaining about us.

Well, according to this survey taken amongst 30000 people from 15 different Euro countries, I to as a Belgian have a right to complain, along with the "other" countries.

http://www.vakantiekanaal.be/bestemm...echtste-chauffeurs-van-europa.aspx

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: SuperCaravelle
Posted 2012-07-29 06:20:59 and read 3321 times.

Quoting klmcedric (Reply 45):
Well, according to this survey taken amongst 30000 people from 15 different Euro countries, I to as a Belgian have a right to complain, along with the "other" countries.http://www.vakantiekanaal.be/bestemm...echtste-chauffeurs-van-europa.aspx

This is a survey only and only perceived truth as opposed to facts.

I agree with the first poster, people tend to do this a lot in the Netherlands, I don't know why. I'd like to throw it on the I only care about myself mentality that is growing in here, but I'm not sure if that's the case.

Compared to Dutch motorways (busy or not), for example French ones are so much more relaxing, because everyone sticks to the same code.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-07-29 10:17:41 and read 3264 times.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 44):
I don't know--if you're talking the current or previous generation Toyota Sienna minivan, I've seen many of them zip by me on I-80 west of Sacramento at 75 mph (120 km/h)--or sometimes higher!

The issue isn't the Sienna. The issue is the people who drive it.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2012-07-29 18:36:41 and read 3161 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Dear NorCal drivers:

They are called "speed bumps," not "stop bumps."

Sincerely,

-Me

I especially love the people who have their cars so lowered that they have to take speed bumps achingly slowly and on an diagonal. Those are my FAVORITE.

     

My favorite pet peeve about Arizona drivers - slammed 1990's era Honda Civics with "fart can" exhaust systems, wheels worth more than the entire car is worth, and they SLOW DOWN for rain gutters at the intersections in Phoenix because if these idiots don't slow down to 10 MPH, they'll rip the underside of their vehicles right off. Sometimes causing accidents because the person in the vehicle behind them has to come to a near complete stop - which leads the vehicle behind them to rear-end that second vehicle. Of course, the slammed fart-can Civic driver just drives away, oblivious to the wreckage in their wake.....

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2012-07-29 18:59:53 and read 3156 times.

I can sort of understand where the op is coming from!

Once, while driving on the A4 towards Schiphol, somewhere near Roelofarendsveen, I was pulled over by the Dutch Politie.

I had not been driving too fast, and had not done anything else wrong, so I was slightly bemused.

On production of my Irish driving license, I was immediately breathalyzed (and yes, I actually heard the two cops saying in Dutch that they had better test me for alcohol on account of my being Irish).

I passed the Breathalyzer test (because, believe it or not, Irish people are not always in fact drunk).

So, I asked why I had been pulled over. The cops told me that I had slowed down a little in order to allow traffic merging onto the Motorway in ahead of me.

Yes - I had actually considered and been courteous to another road user. Why was this a problem? Because apparently this was not very "Dutch" behaviour and it raised their suspicions  

Though generally, I must say, I found Dutch driving standards quite good!

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-07-30 16:55:04 and read 3025 times.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 48):
My favorite pet peeve about Arizona drivers - slammed 1990's era Honda Civics with "fart can" exhaust systems, wheels worth more than the entire car is worth, and they SLOW DOWN for rain gutters at the intersections in Phoenix because if these idiots don't slow down to 10 MPH, they'll rip the underside of their vehicles right off. Sometimes causing accidents because the person in the vehicle behind them has to come to a near complete stop - which leads the vehicle behind them to rear-end that second vehicle. Of course, the slammed fart-can Civic driver just drives away, oblivious to the wreckage in their wake.....

You forgot the massive spoiler on the back of the Civic, often in a color that doesn't *quite* match the body. And the thumping rap music that can be heard up to 12 NM away if the wind is right.

BTW, Phoenix has rain gutters?   

My other absolute FAVORITE is the pickup trucks that are then lowered to the point where they are no better than your Civics. OMG-WTF???

That's like ordering a cheeseburger, no meat, no cheese. Why would you get a pickup truck, which is necessarily meant for hauling heavy stuff and going over rugged terrain... and then lower it to the ground? It makes no sense!

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: RobertNL070
Posted 2012-07-31 11:48:32 and read 2936 times.

After living and driving in the Netherlands for more than 25 years, I can't say that the Dutch drivers are better or worse than other nationalities. And with family and friends flung all over WestErn Europe, I do tend to get around. The only objection I have is that it is not fashionable to use your indicators in this country. I use them at every single junction in the vain hope that other drivers might think it a good idea.

One pet peeve: motorists who pull out to overtake, and then don't. Grrrr!!! Frequently witnessed in France and Belgium, seldom in the Netherlands and the UK.

Topic: RE: The Dutch Higway Driving Style, Aaarghhh!
Username: bhill
Posted 2012-08-01 11:49:03 and read 2824 times.

Funny....Boston drivers are the same way...anything behind the door mirrors does not exist. I have actually seen a string of Boston drivers, during rush hour, tailgating an ambulance with its lights on while on a run speeding through the backed up traffic, and cutting each other off to get into said line....crazy......


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