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Topic: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: andreew
Posted 2012-09-24 15:16:28 and read 2356 times.

Hello !

To start with, I hope I posted this one in the right section!

Well the story of my life is quite simple.. I have always wanted to be a pilot (but failed the medical 1 because of my vision), had a go on the FEAST test and failed that one as well.

At the moment I am studying mechanical engineering as I think this might be a good way in to the aviation industry. Now I really start to reconsider, since I don't find it very interesting. I am not interested in materials and to be honest. I am not that interested in mechanical parts of an airplane either. I just love airplanes and air traffic in general (contradictory eh?).

I do consider (more and more) to change my major in to business/finance since I tend to like investments and business as well. But at the same time it feels like I fail upon myself and my aviation interests.

bottom line: what part of the aviation industry can I work with a business degree? (for instance manufacturers such as boeing, airbus, bombardier and airlines).

For instance, who is responsible for big orders on the manufacturers ? Does he or she need to have an engineering degree? Who plan the route network on the airlines?

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: flymia
Posted 2012-09-24 15:41:19 and read 2316 times.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
I do consider (more and more) to change my major in to business/finance since I tend to like investments and business as well. But at the same time it feels like I fail upon myself and my aviation interests.

bottom line: what part of the aviation industry can I work with a business degree? (for instance manufacturers such as boeing, airbus, bombardier and airlines).

Every large company needs people with business backgrounds. From finance or supply chain management, organization etc...

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-09-24 19:30:21 and read 2183 times.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
At the moment I am studying mechanical engineering as I think this might be a good way in to the aviation industry. Now I really start to reconsider, since I don't find it very interesting.

How far in are you? At most programs, the 2nd year of mechanical engineering is death because it's all fundamentals (thermo, dynamics, statics, fluids) and, depending on the program, it's hard to see the applicability of it all. In my experience, it gets way better in the 3rd and 4th years. I'm a Mech E (among other things) and what I do day-to-day bears little resemblance to what I did in school.

That said, if you really don't like engineering then it's not a good idea to stay...engineering is a not a field that you're going to find very rewarding if you don't enjoy the work.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
I just love airplanes and air traffic in general (contradictory eh?).

Not really...there are *tons* of people who love flying and aviation but have no interest in engineering. A.net is a testament to that. Flying is among the most universal of human fascinations; it's healthy and normal and there are lots of ways you can be involved without being an engineer.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
I do consider (more and more) to change my major in to business/finance since I tend to like investments and business as well. But at the same time it feels like I fail upon myself and my aviation interests.

Business/finance types have tons of work in the aviation field; you're not failing yourself or your aviation interests. It's *far* more important that you do what you enjoy. Aviation is big enough that you'll be able to find work within the industry while still doing something you like. Financial compensation isn't good enough in aviation to justify anything else.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
bottom line: what part of the aviation industry can I work with a business degree? (for instance manufacturers such as boeing, airbus, bombardier and airlines).

OEM's are big companies, so they inherently have large accounting/finance divisions just to make the place run. On top of that, you've got supply chain, production planning/scheduling, sales, marketing, branding, communications, etc.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
For instance, who is responsible for big orders on the manufacturers ?

Supplier management. Tons of business types.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
Does he or she need to have an engineering degree?

No.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
Who plan the route network on the airlines?

Those are generally operations people...the pure routing part is a heavy engineering discipline but a huge part of the overall network (revenue management, fare structures, promotions, etc.) need lots of business/finance people to make them work.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: WestJet747
Posted 2012-09-25 06:16:14 and read 2003 times.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
bottom line: what part of the aviation industry can I work with a business degree? (for instance manufacturers such as boeing, airbus, bombardier and airlines).

To echo Tom's point, there isn't a single company out there that is run solely by engineers. There is always a need for people with a business background, be it finance, marketing, operations, human resources, etc.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2):
Those are generally operations people...the pure routing part is a heavy engineering discipline but a huge part of the overall network (revenue management, fare structures, promotions, etc.) need lots of business/finance people to make them work.

I've noticed that many of the requisitions for route management/analyst positions are for those majoring in statistics.

Quoting andreew (Thread starter):
I do consider (more and more) to change my major in to business/finance since I tend to like investments and business as well. But at the same time it feels like I fail upon myself and my aviation interests.

Keep in mind that if you get too far into your engineering academic career, the transition becomes more difficult. Same goes after you graduate and find out you don't enjoy your field.

I was very interested in engineering coming out of high school, but I ultimately decided on a business degree as it gave me more flexibility in an uncertain job market. There's more than one school of thought to that though, so some may disagree with me.

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: andreew
Posted 2012-09-25 06:51:29 and read 1998 times.

Thanks for the answers guys!

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that route planning (often) requires engineering/statistics background? For me it actually sounds more like suited for people with finance/business. It seems like you should analyze global market and be pretty sure of the profit on an new established route rather than calculate the probability of the profitability

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2):
How far in are you? At most programs, the 2nd year of mechanical engineering is death because it's all fundamentals (thermo, dynamics, statics, fluids) and, depending on the program, it's hard to see the applicability of it all. In my experience, it gets way better in the 3rd and 4th years. I'm a Mech E (among other things) and what I do day-to-day bears little resemblance to what I did in school.

That said, if you really don't like engineering then it's not a good idea to stay...engineering is a not a field that you're going to find very rewarding if you don't enjoy the work.

Well, to be honest. This is just my first semester. But the thing is, since I am 23 now I don't want to wait and discover later on that this wasn't for me when I already now feel a bit uncertain. It feels like I rather work with different contracts between airlines/manufacturer, maybe be that lucky person at airbus who get to take credit for making a random american airline ditch the 7478 for the 380 . But then it feels like the manufacturers rather have an engineer on that kind position since it requires a solid technical knowledge? I get the impression of that business people tend to work with numbers which is actually applicalbe in any industry (therefore you don't really get the genuine feeling of working in an aviation environment). I might be wrong!

I also wonder about flight dispatcher. I can see that you guys are from north america and maybe wont be able to answer how the market is for that in Europe. How do you get that kind of job and what do you do exactly?

cheers!

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: WestJet747
Posted 2012-09-25 07:04:23 and read 1994 times.

Quoting andreew (Reply 4):
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that route planning (often) requires engineering/statistics background? For me it actually sounds more like suited for people with finance/business. It seems like you should analyze global market and be pretty sure of the profit on an new established route rather than calculate the probability of the profitability

I'd say you have it backwards. Anybody can spend ten minutes on the internet to examine the health of the global market. A perfect example is when you see routes that command 75%+ load factor yet the route is still abandoned (or smaller equipment is used), there may be significant traffic, but a statistician will be able to look at things like yield, RASM, CASM, and trends to see if the route is sustainable. Everything about route planning is a calculated risk, and statisticians are educated for modelling those risks and coming to a quantifiable determination.

I'm not a finance major, but I've taken a handful of university finance courses, and I can honestly I didn't learn anything that would help me in the route planning or flight dispatching area.

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: andreew
Posted 2012-09-25 15:25:11 and read 1940 times.

[

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 5):
I'd say you have it backwards. Anybody can spend ten minutes on the internet to examine the health of the global market. A perfect example is when you see routes that command 75%+ load factor yet the route is still abandoned (or smaller equipment is used), there may be significant traffic, but a statistician will be able to look at things like yield, RASM, CASM, and trends to see if the route is sustainable. Everything about route planning is a calculated risk, and statisticians are educated for modelling those risks and coming to a quantifiable determination.

I'm not a finance major, but I've taken a handful of university finance courses, and I can honestly I didn't learn anything that would help me in the route planning or flight dispatching area.

Yea you are probably right, perhaps take some statistic courses beside my major then?

If I may ask, what do you do right now with your business degree? Are you in the airline industry?

I have been looking at flight dispatcher career and while the information about this job seems very great I see that information about this kind of job in europe (and especially sweden) is inadequate.. Anyone with some kind of information? Cheers!

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: speedbird217
Posted 2012-09-25 15:58:04 and read 1932 times.

I'm doing my MSc in Aviation Management right now. I come from an International Business Administration Bachelor and believe me, there's plenty of work for people with that background in the industry. There are also BSc courses for Aviation Management. You'd probably have to move to another country because these courses are usually very rare. There's definitely two Universities in London (City University and London Met) where you can do it (also as a Bachelor) and one in Cranfield, which is just north of London.
I don't know about the tuition fees in Sweden, assuming that this is where you are conducting your studies right now, but be warned that it might be really expensive in a place like London. So if you get the chance to study something like Business Admin at your University and come here for a one-year Master program this might be a good idea. I didn't really enjoy studying Business Admin, but it gave me a degree with which I can do a lot and if you keep in mind that this is just the first step on your journey, it might motivate you to pull through.

If you need any more information, just shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to supply you with some of my experiences.

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: JRadier
Posted 2012-09-26 01:32:47 and read 1888 times.

Quoting speedbird217 (Reply 7):
There's definitely two Universities in London (City University and London Met) where you can do it (also as a Bachelor) and one in Cranfield, which is just north of London.

Just to clarify, Cranfield University is postgraduate only, so it only offers an MSc in Air Transport Management (and in Airport Planning & Management). I just finished my MSc there and it really does wonders on your CV, Cranfield certainly has a very good name in the industry and just the name opens doors. As for revenue management, from people that graduated in the past two years I know of people in Revenue Management in Cityjet, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Fastjet and Qatar Airways, and I suspect there to be more.

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: speedbird217
Posted 2012-09-26 04:37:39 and read 1859 times.

Congrats on your degree! Yes, indeed Cranfield is post-grad only. Should have made that a little more clear.
Their reputation is really great and they are well-renowned in the industry. Sadly they were only able to offer me a course starting next year, and since I didn't want to loose a year in the meantime, I decided to do a similar course in London. I am sure though that due to the nature of this very specialized course it doesn't make that much of a difference if you graduate from Cranfield or an Av. Management course at another university.
Btw Andy Harrison, former CEO of Easyjet also graduated from Cranfield...

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: JRadier
Posted 2012-09-26 07:29:16 and read 1844 times.

Thanks!

Quoting speedbird217 (Reply 9):
and since I didn't want to loose a year in the meantime, I decided to do a similar course in London.

Did you go to Westminster?

Topic: RE: Pursue A Career Within Aviation?
Username: PPVRA
Posted 2012-09-26 11:30:04 and read 1821 times.

Quoting andreew (Reply 4):
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that route planning (often) requires engineering/statistics background? For me it actually sounds more like suited for people with finance/business. It seems like you should analyze global market and be pretty sure of the profit on an new established route rather than calculate the probability of the profitability

Route planning/network is more operations related and will be heavier on statistics. Analyzing new markets is something that is done separately by the business fields, in collaborative effort with multiple departments. There is lots of statistics there too, but not as much as planning out efficient networks.

[Edited 2012-09-26 11:33:59]


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