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Topic: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AA7295
Posted 2012-11-06 15:33:28 and read 2942 times.

I'm outraged. For the world's most advanced and largest economy I find the ENTIRE presidential election voting process primitive.

Firstly, I read this article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/06/po...ection-voting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I am just shocked that there are problems with this voting machines. I mean seriously... there aren't many options to choose from, why are the machines stuffing up. It's so ridiculous I can't even fathom it. How many options are there, 8? My word... someone needs to lose their job.

Secondly, I know that in the US the states have lots of power, but here in Australia, elections are run by the Federal government agency the AEC (Australian Electoral Commission), and despite it being the law that every citizen must vote, it's always a smooth process and doesn't take long at all to vote. No breaking down of machines and consistency in every state. No ridiculous voter ID laws? We also have state and local council election that seem to work despite having a the AEC. I definetely think the US needs a federally run electoral agency, especially for presidential elections!

Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

I like Obama, and he talks about change a lot, perhaps he should start with how elections are run.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: L-188
Posted 2012-11-06 15:56:15 and read 2947 times.

Why is the concept of getting carded at the polling station so hard for people to grasp?

How else do you ensure one person one vote

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Aesma
Posted 2012-11-06 15:58:22 and read 2946 times.

Well there are many choices since you vote for the president but also the representative, sometimes the senator, the prosecutor, the sheriff, etc. Actually I think that alone is a problem, I'm sure it discourages and confuses many people.

BTW, is it possible to just chose the president and skip the rest ?

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: GrahamHill
Posted 2012-11-06 16:14:21 and read 2945 times.

I agree. For a modern and rich country like the US, it gives a bad impression. Especially when all eyes of the world are watching.

In France we still use the good old ballot paper. An old-fashioned but good way to avoid problems. I would always have a small doubt when voting via an electronic device. But that's my paranoia talking.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

American people can vote in advance. But I agree that voting on a weekday is not relevant anymore. Saturday would indeed be a good pick.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2012-11-06 16:30:29 and read 2947 times.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 4):
In France we still use the good old ballot paper. An old-fashioned but good way to avoid problems. I would always have a small doubt when voting via an electronic device. But that's my paranoia talking.

Read up on what happened in 2000 in Florida. They had paper ballots.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Stratofish
Posted 2012-11-06 16:38:08 and read 2950 times.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 4):
In France we still use the good old ballot paper. An old-fashioned but good way to avoid problems. I would always have a small doubt when voting via an electronic device.

  
Same thing here.

What's even more troubling is that voter turnout is always a factor and always in the same one direction. Also, it is more than troubling that IF voter turnout was to other "western standards" many simply couldn't vote.

Polls show that Americans don't want a large government that gets involved.
I wonder if Americans really care about an organized and capable election process that one way or the other would have to have been organized by "the government"? I think that's the main problem.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: IADCA
Posted 2012-11-06 16:38:19 and read 2949 times.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
BTW, is it possible to just chose the president and skip the rest ?

Yes.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: GrahamHill
Posted 2012-11-06 16:39:26 and read 2950 times.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 5):
Read up on what happened in 2000 in Florida. They had paper ballots.

As far as I remember, Florida used ballot-punching machines. Am I wrong?

In France, you put your ballot paper in an enveloppe and then in a box, like this:



It is then counted and recounted manually by several people in front of dozens of witnesses. At least, that's how it works in my small city!

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Stratofish
Posted 2012-11-06 16:41:24 and read 2946 times.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 5):
Read up on what happened in 2000 in Florida. They had paper ballots.

True. Difference is in Europe we use pens not chads.  

I also want to point out that normally Graham and I do not agree on political issues.  

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2012-11-06 16:42:35 and read 2945 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I'm outraged. For the world's most advanced and largest economy I find the ENTIRE presidential election voting process primitive.

You left out, the worlds greatest democracy.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
but here in Australia, elections are run by the Federal government agency the AEC (Australian Electoral Commission), and despite it being the law that every citizen must vote, it's always a smooth process and doesn't take long at all to vote.

A very good system indeed.
And as you say, I've never had to wait longer than a few minutes in line.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
but why not change it to Saturday.

Woooooo, don't mention that word change......   

But yes, it is so very obvious, especially, if they want greater voter turn out and participation.

[Edited 2012-11-06 17:02:41]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2012-11-06 16:59:04 and read 2943 times.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 8):
As far as I remember, Florida used ballot-punching machines. Am I wrong?

I see what you mean now; I thought you were refering to merely the use of electronic machines in general.

Yes, most were manually-operated punching machines. I'm not sure about the efficency of doing it by hand, but it would keep the highest standards.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-11-06 17:04:30 and read 2942 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Why is the concept of getting carded at the polling station so hard for people to grasp?

How else do you ensure one person one vote

Because it is not a problem. Vote fraud problems are primarily behind the scenes and not with people individually voting. It is in "mail in ballots" and the count, and ballot box stuffing, vote rigging, "pay for votes", all of which ID at the polls does nothing to address but yet that is where the real problems have been throughout history.

Tugg

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-06 17:31:26 and read 2943 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

The first Tuesday after the first Monday in November is not a Constitutional date. Any senator or representative can sponsor a bill to get it changed. But, nobody does. Oh well. If there were enough of a popular outcry, maybe something would happen. But, if you move to Saturday, don't you disenfranchise Orthodox Jews?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
BTW, is it possible to just chose the president and skip the rest ?

Yup, you just mark the presidential part of the ballot. Leave the rest blank.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 4):
American people can vote in advance.

Not all. Some states have early voting. Some have mail in ballots. Others adhere to a strict 'absentee ballot' rule.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-06 17:42:38 and read 2943 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
For the world's most advanced and largest economy I find the ENTIRE presidential election voting process primitive.

I just came back from voting. I stuffed my ballot into the drive-thru box where there were probably three cars ahead of me. All very efficient here in Oregon. I could have mailed my ballot in instead, but didn't decide upon how I was going to vote on a couple of issues until this past weekend.

N.B. In Oregon, we may only vote either by mail or drop box. There are no longer any voting booths/precincts.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: IMissPiedmont
Posted 2012-11-06 17:51:35 and read 2944 times.

I just finished voting and as I have every election since 1976 I marked boxes on the piece of paper with a pen and dropped it into a box.

And as for the original poster stating voting is mandatory. This is a good thing?

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-11-06 17:53:46 and read 2947 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
N.B. In Oregon, we may only vote either by mail or drop box. There are no longer any voting booths/precincts.

Its funny, because its sounds nice and all but I so very much disagree with the idea of that. I just find it a total anathema to free and fair voting to not have public voting with private booths. It is the simplest way to demonstrate that everyone is voting freely and of their own volition and choices.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 15):
I just finished voting and as I have every election since 1976 I marked boxes on the piece of paper with a pen and dropped it into a box.

  
To me this is the very best way to do it. Simple and easy.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-11-06 17:55:42]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: L-188
Posted 2012-11-06 19:00:37 and read 2944 times.

Well if I was to change the way elections are ru. In this country.

1. Paper ballots, not electronic, not punch card

2, no early voting......that is what an absentee ballot is for

3. Id required......you need to prove you are eligible to buy a beer in a store, you should need to prove you are eligible to vote. Alaska has a good system. When you register to vote you are sent a registration card which is a valid id for going to the polls. Because of that there is no reason a registered voter should not have an I'd.

4. No open primaries. They are meant for parties to nominate their candidate. I almost would say they should run their own primaries, not the state but I don't trust them for corruption.

5. All primaries on on date. Enough with this rolling total over several months. It disenfranchises voters as totals come In And candidates do good or bad.

6. All candidates are allowed to debate. None of this two candidates when there are really five or six running. This will break up the monopoly of the two part system which was never intended by the founding fathers.

7. Returns can't be released until all polls in the country close. This was very bad earlier but still happens, I am seeing returns now and we still have two and a half hours until ours close...again disenfranchises. Maybe no announcement until 24 hours after the last poll closes

8. Standard poll hours, so everybody in every state has the same opportunity to vote, say 12 hours eight to eight.

9. Seperate primary, elections for president and vice president. Party members should have a say in the choice of their nomine

10, the anchient greeks had a system where they could in a normal election cycle vote out a senator. I propose the same thing. A nationwide vote on which senator and which congressman has made enough of an arse of themselves. Nationwide vote and the one that gets the most no votes cant run for reelection next cycle. It would impose term limits on the most offensive members and stopolitical grandstanding

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: usairways787
Posted 2012-11-06 19:38:56 and read 2943 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I'm outraged. For the world's most advanced and largest economy I find the ENTIRE presidential election voting process primitive.

I agree, and think it should all be done by popular vote, not electoral.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

This has been brought up, especially after hearing about the horrendous lines to vote. Some were 6 hours long, absolutely asinine.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 4):
I agree. For a modern and rich country like the US, it gives a bad impression. Especially when all eyes of the world are watching.

Modern yes, however rich...LoL, I guess if you count 16 trillion in debt as rich sure :p With all eyes watching on us, I hope they at least are getting a good laugh, personally I find the whole thing pretty embarrassing.

US787

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Aesma
Posted 2012-11-06 20:15:13 and read 2944 times.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 5):
Read up on what happened in 2000 in Florida. They had paper ballots.

But not paper ballots like this :



You just can't do simpler.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Bill142
Posted 2012-11-07 02:37:13 and read 2943 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
How else do you ensure one person one vote

You get your name marked off the electoral role and if you're found to have voted more than once you get your ass kicked.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: qantas077
Posted 2012-11-07 03:02:02 and read 2945 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
How else do you ensure one person one vote

we have a system which has every eligible voters name recorded and printed at the polling station in your area, you go there, give your name, they mark it off and you get your card and vote.

if you're found to have voted twice it's going to cost you a fair chunk of change..then again why would you bother?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
You left out, the worlds greatest democracy.

according to Lord Downer, yes.   but it's really representative democracy.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-07 03:07:14 and read 2947 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I am just shocked that there are problems with this voting machines. I mean seriously... there aren't many options to choose from, why are the machines stuffing up.

Basically, because voting is done at a municipal level, which means each municipality has their own style of voting machines and their own budget for acquiring and maintaining those machines.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

I like Obama, and he talks about change a lot, perhaps he should start with how elections are run.

As we found out with voter ID, this is a hugely sensitive subject. There should be a bi-partisan effort to improve this situation, but it's filled with political land mines.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
Why is the concept of getting carded at the polling station so hard for people to grasp?

Sigh, not again...

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
In France we still use the good old ballot paper.

Actually we do in my municipality too. To me it's the only thing that makes sense. Computer touch screens are an incredibly poor idea. Whomever was in favor obviously was computer illiterate or worse. In my town we make marks on a ballot using black ink, and that paper is then optically scanned. If there's ever an issue, the ballots can be re-scanned. How can you get computers to be re-touched? It's much cheaper too: one scanner per polling location instead of one computer per voting booth.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 4):
Read up on what happened in 2000 in Florida. They had paper ballots.

Actually they had pre-punched cards, which are indeed paper, but not the same as what France uses.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
The first Tuesday after the first Monday in November is not a Constitutional date. Any senator or representative can sponsor a bill to get it changed. But, nobody does.

And they can make election day be a mandatory holiday like it used to be in the past, but they chose not to.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
I just came back from voting. I stuffed my ballot into the drive-thru box where there were probably three cars ahead of me. All very efficient here in Oregon. I could have mailed my ballot in instead, but didn't decide upon how I was going to vote on a couple of issues until this past weekend.

N.B. In Oregon, we may only vote either by mail or drop box. There are no longer any voting booths/precincts.

That is so sensible. Get the ballots out early enough so that people can read through and make their mind up at their leisure, and vote when they are ready.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 16):
no early voting......that is what an absentee ballot is for

I disagree. Voting day should be a deadline, not an event.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-11-07 03:30:54 and read 2946 times.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 2):
BTW, is it possible to just chose the president and skip the rest ?

Why, the most important thing the American people were voting for was not the President, to the rest of the world it was but to them they were voting for a lot of other things. A good suggesstion is to take a look at a sample of the ballots in a number of counties, municipalities etc. local and state issues dominate the ballots for things such as schools, roads, police and fire departments, bond issues, local politicians and on and on it goes. As the majority of issues were state and local it stands to reason that the local would control the voting process from start to finish, hence teh comment below by another poster.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
Not all. Some states have early voting. Some have mail in ballots. Others adhere to a strict 'absentee ballot' rule.

Obama mentioned the delays in his acceptance speech, but the Feds power to change and or mandate a country wide solution is limited by the constitution, the state when the USA was created did not give up all their rights, they actually retained a whole lot.

It would be interesting to see the turnout of voters if the presidential election was held by itself, all bets are off on the turnout.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2012-11-07 03:52:53 and read 2944 times.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
For a modern and rich country like the US, it gives a bad impression

Tip of the iceberg dude...the more "advanced" we become, the dummer we act. Besides...It is all Bushes fault.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Birdwatching
Posted 2012-11-07 04:15:14 and read 2945 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
You left out, the worlds greatest democracy.

The USA is a republic, not a democracy. In a democracy, the leader is determined by who has the highest number of votes, and each vote is worth the same. Both are not true in the USA, so it is not a democracy.

Soren   

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2012-11-07 06:26:42 and read 3060 times.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
You just can't do simpler.

Obiously you can, because the wrong one was elected.           

But in all seriousness, I already clarifed what I meant above---I was reffering to the use of electronics in general.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: cmf
Posted 2012-11-07 06:38:18 and read 3058 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 22):
It would be interesting to see the turnout of voters if the presidential election was held by itself, all bets are off on the turnout.

Have a look at how turnout is much higher in years with presidential elections. http://www.idea.int/vt/countryview.cfm?CountryCode=US

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: InsideMan
Posted 2012-11-07 06:59:59 and read 3085 times.

as per equal protection clause (see Gore vs Bush 2000) all votes should count equal, why there is no majority to remove the electoral college system is beyond me....

Also, vote on a Sunday and with seperate ballots for each vote. That way the one for the presidential race is the same in all 50 states and should be much faster.

Where I live I never waited more than 5 minutes to vote. I don't know if it is because of lower capita per poll station ratios or just better organisation. If I had to wait in line for 3 hours or more I wouldn't vote, especially in non competitive states....

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-07 07:27:48 and read 3082 times.

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 27):

as per equal protection clause (see Gore vs Bush 2000) all votes should count equal, why there is no majority to remove the electoral college system is beyond me.

All votes do count equally. We don't have national elections in the U.S. My vote counted just as equally here in my local election here in Oregon as everyone else's.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: bueb0g
Posted 2012-11-07 09:37:46 and read 3069 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
All votes do count equally. We don't have national elections in the U.S. My vote counted just as equally here in my local election here in Oregon as everyone else's.

Posture all you want but the fact is that for electing the President, your vote means almost nothing unless you're in a swing state. The guys in Ohio, Florida etc - their votes meant a million times more than those in Alabama, New York, California etc.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: eatmybologna
Posted 2012-11-07 09:40:36 and read 3079 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
You left out, the worlds greatest democracy.
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 24):
The USA is a republic, not a democracy. In a democracy, the leader is determined by who has the highest number of votes, and each vote is worth the same. Both are not true in the USA, so it is not a democracy.

Soren

  

The US of A is a constitutional Republic where it has some similarities to a democracy in that it uses a democratic process to elect representatives and pass new laws.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I definetely think the US needs a federally run electoral agency, especially for presidential elections!

When creating the U.S. Constitutional, the forefathers designed a system to avoid the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. In a republic, the federal government serves the people, not the other way around. Limiting federal powers, and giving it to the individual states (representing individuals) is one way to achieve balance.

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 27):
as per equal protection clause (see Gore vs Bush 2000) all votes should count equal, why there is no majority to remove the electoral college system is beyond me....

A national campaign would lead to a national outreach with much greater emphasis on large metropolitan areas such as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Houston, and Atlanta, for example, There would be little incentive for campaigns to account to the needs and desires of citizens in differing states and regions that lay in between.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-07 09:46:18 and read 3072 times.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 29):
The guys in Ohio, Florida etc - their votes meant a million times more than those in Alabama, New York, California etc.

You could give Ohio and Florida to Romney, and he still wouldn't have won. You could even give Virginia to Romney, and he still wouldn't have won.

Your argument is invalid. The "Midwest Firewall" supporting the coasts is where Obama won this election. That's a broad base of support regardless of what happened in OH, FL or VA.

[Edited 2012-11-07 09:47:16]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-07 09:58:07 and read 3065 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 31):
The "Midwest Firewall" supporting the coasts is where Obama won this election. That's a broad base of support regardless of what happened in OH, FL or VA.

And he probably would have won NC too if he did the "politically correct" thing and not speak out in favor of gay marriage, which pissed off all the bible thumpers down there. I'm sure it'll be a non-issue four years from now.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: TheCol
Posted 2012-11-07 10:25:25 and read 3060 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I'm outraged

Why do you care? Are you a US citizen?

Seriously, my #1 pet peeve is foreigners meddling in the domestic affairs of my country. I can imagine how annoyed Americans get when foreigners start hooting and hollering like a bunch of 2-bit backbenchers during every federal election.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote?

Less people would show up on a day-off, instead of taking an extra paid break from work to vote.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: seb146
Posted 2012-11-07 10:37:00 and read 3053 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
Why is the concept of getting carded at the polling station so hard for people to grasp?

It's not. What the right does not get is: THERE IS NO VOTER FRAUD AT ALL!!! Also, what the right does not get is: they tried to ram through those laws so close to a presidential election that is looked very, very shady. Those laws should be passed within the next six months.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
How else do you ensure one person one vote

Since there already exists one person, one vote, that point is moot.

My question is: how do we ensure that people who fill out voter registration cards actually will get to vote? Remember that all over Colorado and Florida, the only voter registration cards filled out correctly and turned in belonged to Republican voters. Those who registered as third party or Democrat either had their card thrown away or had their address altered.

But, that is not important, I guess. Just make sure ID is shown for all those Republican voters!

Quoting L-188 (Reply 16):
. When you register to vote you are sent a registration card which is a valid id for going to the polls. Because of that there is no reason a registered voter should not have an I'd.

Yep. That is how every state in the West does it. But, apparently, there is still voter fraud.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-07 10:56:04 and read 3047 times.

LOL, perhaps the voting process IS ridiculous in America:

http://isnatesilverawitch.com/

 Wow!    

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Birdwatching
Posted 2012-11-07 11:04:25 and read 3056 times.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 33):
Why do you care? Are you a US citizen?
Seriously, my #1 pet peeve is foreigners meddling in the domestic affairs of my country.

Domestic affairs? The elections in the USA are very relevant for the whole world, presidential elections in the US are not really a "domestic affair". It is everybody's right to be interested in the US elections as it will seriously shape world politics.

It's as relevant for AA7295 in Australia as it is to you in Canada.

Soren   

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: eatmybologna
Posted 2012-11-07 11:04:45 and read 3052 times.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
THERE IS NO VOTER FRAUD AT ALL!!!

If this is true, why do poll workers go through such a great extent to prevent it from occurring in the first place?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
Also, what the right does not get is: they tried to ram through those laws so close to a presidential election that is looked very, very shady.

The first state adopting a voter ID law was Indiana in 2006. Since then 27 more sates have added voter ID requirements, for a total of 28 states. That's 28 states over a period of six + years...not exactly close to a presidential election.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
But, apparently, there is still voter fraud.

Yes, voter fraud & election manipulation exists. http://www.newburyportnews.com/opini...9659494/Voter-fraud-affects-us-all

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-11-07 11:18:24 and read 3053 times.

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 37):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
Also, what the right does not get is: they tried to ram through those laws so close to a presidential election that is looked very, very shady.

The first state adopting a voter ID law was Indiana in 2006. Since then 27 more sates have added voter ID requirements, for a total of 28 states. That's 28 states over a period of six + years...not exactly close to a presidential election.

One of my biggest issue with the voter ID laws was that they were brought out too near an important election. While I don't particularly support "voter ID at the polls" it doesn't bother me much at all provided it is instituted in an appropriate manner (well before an election, clear assistance to all to ensure people have access and no disenfranchisement occurs, alternatives to allow people to vote with confirmation later if needed).

To me the biggest farce about it all was the idea that requiring voter ID at the polls would truly have any kind of real effect on the validity of the votes and prevent vote fraud. As I have mentioned many times before, the real problem of vote fraud occurs in many other channels in the voting process and ID'ing someone at the polls is mostly window dressing.

Vote fraud is serious and must be prevented but attention and money and effort should be in the areas that have the biggest effect first, then go down the threat list from there. Voter ID requirements is OK as a low effort part of that but it can't be implemented in a manner that disrupts legitimate persons right to vote.

Tugg

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-07 11:34:20 and read 3053 times.

Quoting tugger (Reply 38):
To me the biggest farce about it all was the idea that requiring voter ID at the polls would truly have any kind of real effect on the validity of the votes and prevent vote fraud. As I have mentioned many times before, the real problem of vote fraud occurs in many other channels in the voting process and ID'ing someone at the polls is mostly window dressing.

I have a modest proposal:

Death penalty for voter fraud INCLUDING voter intimidation, harassment, or intentionally trying to mislead voters (i.e. telling them the wrong polling station or wrong voting time or saying there is a Voter ID law when there isn't).

Death penalty by defining it as sedition. Which it is, really. An attempt to overthrow or undermine the legitimately elected government.

Seriously, the Right thinks voter fraud is such a big deal? OK, let's play ball. Because almost every case of voter fraud that actually happened in this election was done by the Right. Right-wing politicians doing robocalls to left-leaning precincts claiming that the polling station was other than it was. Thugs standing outside traditionally liberal polling stations pretending to check people off on a list and telling them that they were ineligible. The list goes on.

Try them and execute them if found guilty. You want to be tough on crime? Let's be tough on crime. I don't see how the GOP could be opposed to it; they favor the death penalty in general and they seem very concerned about voter fraud. Yet somehow, I suspect they would not like this plan.

I do wonder why.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: eatmybologna
Posted 2012-11-07 11:46:21 and read 3051 times.

Quoting tugger (Reply 38):
As I have mentioned many times before, the real problem of vote fraud occurs in many other channels in the voting process and ID'ing someone at the polls is mostly window dressing.

Yes, I agree - vote fraud comes in many forms. ID'ing at the polls, combined with a national database from which pollers can cross reference voters would be helpful to reduce some fraud.

Here's an excerpt from the link I provided....

Fraud can affect entire elections and starts at the point of registration. A 2004 study by the New York Daily News found that 46,000 people were registered to vote in both Florida and New York City, and that between 400 and 1,000 of them had voted in both places in the same election. The 2000 presidential election was decided by 537 votes. A recent Pew Center study found that approximately 2.8 million people are registered to vote in more than one state. As many as 1.8 million registered voters are dead.There is no national database to enable states to cross-reference registration and voter records. In the 20 states where officials match records, thousands of people turned up as possibly double voting in the 2010 general election. Elections are often tight races, a few hundred or thousand votes could affect the outcome. Twenty states cross-checking found 7,600 potential voter fraud cases in Illinois alone!

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: eatmybologna
Posted 2012-11-07 12:11:40 and read 3046 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
I do wonder why.

I'm a registered republican, but do not favor the death penalty. Nor do a majority of my republican, democratic, and independent friends and family.

But yes, I would would favor a punishment fit to those who are caught guilty of voter fraud. Perhaps community service and a fine, along with voting privileges revoked for ten years. Otherwise, a simple slap on the wrist advocates more fraud for the future.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
Death penalty by defining it as sedition. Which it is, really. An attempt to overthrow or undermine the legitimately elected government.

I don't think so. In the USA, voting and an absolute, unadulterated electoral process belongs to the people - one that must be protected by the government. A manipulation of this right in any form is against the legitimacy of the people, not specifically, an elected government.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-07 12:24:44 and read 3042 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
Death penalty for voter fraud

I really wouldn't go that far, even though it is a felony. The FBI was brought in to investigate a case of voter fraud in the county where I vote:

Suspect in Clackamas County Voting Fraud Case Claims Only Two Ballots Were Involved

Death penalty for completing two ballots? Hmm. Don't think so.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2012-11-07 13:40:35 and read 3034 times.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 33):
Seriously, my #1 pet peeve is foreigners meddling in the domestic affairs of my country. I can imagine how annoyed Americans get when foreigners start hooting and hollering like a bunch of 2-bit backbenchers during every federal election.

Really ?

The US election effects the entire world (unfortunately), and because of that little fact, everyone feels as though they can have a say on the matter, and I agree with that. Americas election was widely broadcast here on the TV for months bringing it into everyone lounge rooms.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 33):
instead of taking an extra paid break from work to vote.

You get paid to vote ?
How bizarre.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 36):
It is everybody's right to be interested in the US elections as it will seriously shape world politics.

Well said !
Mystifying isn't it, that others here feel that its only US citizens who can have an opinion  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
I do wonder why.

What, the death penalty ? Are you really serious about this ?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 42):
Death penalty for completing two ballots? Hmm. Don't think so.

Lets not go there please.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-11-07 15:15:37 and read 3025 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 43):
Quoting TheCol (Reply 33):
instead of taking an extra paid break from work to vote.

You get paid to vote ?
How bizarre.

I think he meant you are paid to work, and when there are elections, your employer is obligated to give you time to go to the polls, so you get a paid break from work.
Unfortunately, with some of the long lines in Miami - Dade in Florada, one might have been better off staying at work  

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: scbriml
Posted 2012-11-07 15:46:35 and read 3028 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 44):
so you get a paid break from work

To go and vote. Ergo, you're paid to vote.   

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: TheCol
Posted 2012-11-07 23:25:04 and read 3023 times.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 36):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 43):

I was referring to the electoral process in the US. There is really nothing to warrant any special concern from the rest of the free world. It's doubtful most Americans care what we think about it, nor should they.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-07 23:32:03 and read 3029 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 42):
Death penalty for completing two ballots? Hmm. Don't think so

Was it intentional? If so, why not? d

Imagine if there were a death penalty; I doubt he would have done it.

See, the issue with using the death penalty for murder is that it doesn't deter the crime for one of two reasons:

1) First-degree: the murderer thinks he can get away with it and thus is not deterred by the consequences.
2) Second-degree: the murderer isn't thinking about the consequences at the time of the crime.

With voter fraud, it's very likely you'll get caught and the price of life would be awesomely high. I bet it would deter all but the most die-hard fraudsters.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-08 01:09:11 and read 3016 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 47):
Was it intentional? If so, why not?

Punishment is supposed to be appropriate for the crime. You're as far out in Looney Tunes land with this as you were with the Libertarians to win the vote for President in West Virginia. SMH

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: InsideMan
Posted 2012-11-08 01:35:35 and read 3015 times.

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 37):
If this is true, why do poll workers go through such a great extent to prevent it from occurring in the first place?

to disenfranchise people supporting the "wrong" party of their vote, most likely to affect the poor and minorities aka Democrat supporters

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: sebolino
Posted 2012-11-08 01:42:27 and read 3023 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

I really wondered about that ...

In France, all elections take place a Sunday, that's for a reason. But I suppose religion has something to say in the US. Saturday is forbidden for jews, and I guess Sunday is not popular among extremist christians.
If you want to please all religions, you can say goodbye to democracy ...  

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: sebolino
Posted 2012-11-08 01:51:12 and read 3022 times.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 24):
The USA is a republic, not a democracy. In a democracy, the leader is determined by who has the highest number of votes, and each vote is worth the same. Both are not true in the USA, so it is not a democracy.

Ouch. One more time ?

No, I'm sorry guy, but it's wrong. I don't know why so many Americans believe that. I think it's a real problem.

Democracy (invented in ancient Greece) means literally "power to the people". It just means that the people chose its leaders.
Of course the US are a democracy !!!

Some people say "The US are not a democracy but a republic". ????!!!!!
It's a total nonsense. The 2 words are not on the same level.
France is a democracy and a republic like the US.
Great Britain is a democracy and a monarchy.
China is not a democracy but is a republic, like many African countries.

Republic just means that the head of state is "chosen" among normal citizens (no king or special people).

[Edited 2012-11-08 01:52:57]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2012-11-08 02:31:27 and read 3000 times.

Setting asides New York and New Jersey for their obvious logistical nightmares, most of the places with the longest lines happen to also be the places favoring Democratic candidates but where elections are run by elected Republican officials. Coincidence?

If there was one thing I would change, it would be to hand over the organization of elections at every level to state agencies staffed with professional civil servants, not elected or appointed officials. No more monkeying around with poll opening hours or limiting early voting opportunities to make it harder for people with a job to vote... Elections should be about giving the highest number of eligible people the widest opportunity to express themselves.

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 27):
If I had to wait in line for 3 hours or more I wouldn't vote, especially in non competitive states....

Elections are usually about more than one level of government. In my home state, the presidential election was not a contest, but Democrats and Republicans fought viciously and expensively over a state election in which turnout was a factor.

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 37):
That's 28 states over a period of six + years...not exactly close to a presidential election.

The issue is not only the very last-minute efforts of some of the remaining states to impose a form of voter ID, so late as to, in some cases, giving individuals who didn't have the right document already a mere few weeks to get it. It is also the fact that some were undoubtedly partisan.
In one state, the governor was caught on tape boasting that the new voter ID law he was pushing would guarantee Romney victory.
In several other states, voter ID laws mandated the use of documents that poor and minorities (aka Democrats) were disproportionately less likely to already hold, or because of their more precarious financial position would find more onerous to acquire, or would find more difficult to obtain because only a limited number of offices were handing them out and many would have to take a day or half a day off to go get that document (yes, some states are that big). In every case, complying with voter ID requirements would be disproportionally more difficult for people more inclined to vote for Democratic candidates. Again, I ask, coincidence?

I'm absolutely not against voter ID, I think requiring a picture ID to vote is a reasonable request, but it must be implemented in a non-partisan way. Acceptable forms of ID must be cheap and easy to obtain, and with plenty of time ahead of the next election, not a few weeks. Some states managed to do that. Probably prompted by this year's election, they passed a voter ID law, but made it effective in 2014...

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 37):
Yes, voter fraud & election manipulation exists.

And the best proof you have is an opinion letter to a local newspaper that includes vague allegations, no actual facts (that people were registered in two locations is no proof they voted twice) and actual falsehood (you don't need to know English to vote). Convincing proof indeed.
Instead, here is an article from no less than Fox News saying voter ID is a solution in search of a problem:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...rget-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/

Quoting sebolino (Reply 51):
Republic just means that the head of state is "chosen" among normal citizens (no king or special people).

The head of the Chinese government is chosen among normal citizens?
To put it more simply, or accurately, a republic is a country where the head of state isn't a monarch, where the position is gained through election or appointment, not inheritance.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: sebolino
Posted 2012-11-08 02:38:01 and read 2994 times.

Quoting sebolino (Reply 51):
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 52):
The head of the Chinese government is chosen among normal citizens?

Well, I think that any child in China might become leader of the communist party. Of course, it's more difficult for some of them, but I think there's no rules about it. Anyway, I'm not a specialist of China ...  

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-11-08 04:02:20 and read 2988 times.

There is no doubt we need more reforms and Federal standardization of the elections process in the USA. Some of the suggested reforms have issues and conflicts that limit them from happening.

ID requirements - Most countries require you to show your National ID card to vote. The USA is one of the few countries that doesn't have a national ID card and registration system. Many don't want it for reasons for privacy from government intrusion in their lives any more than they have or have to go through the hassles to get such documents.

The date for major general elections on a Tuesday in November - this is something that evolved in an agrarian society in the early to mid 1800's, especially with major states like NY having such a date. Having them in November was after the crops were in, but before winter sets in, enough time before the 1st of the soon new year when many elected posts take hold. As to the President, until FDR, they didn't take power until April of the following year, that changed due to improved communications. Federal laws regulate the minimum number of days between the election, the meeting of Presidential 'electoral college' to formally choose the President and VP, to allow a minimum number of days for any vote collections, challenges and recounts. I doubt we would see Saturday or Sunday voting due to religious conflicts, the costs of overtime for police and elections officials for weekend work and to allow a last weekend of campaigning.

Primary elections - we do need a Federal limit as to when the earliest primary elections and other processes (like the cacuses used in Iowa) can take place. Once again, the original dates were set by an agrarian society, to do it before the planting of crops in early spring. We should standardize the primary for national posts from not earlier than April 15th and not later than June 15. In some states and localities, they have municipal elections in April or May as their officials take office on July 1st to match the fiscal year they follow.

We also need to repeal 'Citizens United', which allows unlimited and unregulated independent expenditures by PAC's but not conflict with our First Amendment Freedom of Speech.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: InsideMan
Posted 2012-11-08 04:45:04 and read 2988 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 54):
I doubt we would see Saturday or Sunday voting due to religious conflicts, the costs of overtime for police and elections officials for weekend work and to allow a last weekend of campaigning.

In all western civilizations Sunday is the standard day for elections. Also, police is hardly ever present, as it is not needed. You campaign too much as it is already, people would be glad to have one weekend less of lies and smears.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 54):
We also need to repeal 'Citizens United', which allows unlimited and unregulated independent expenditures by PAC's but not conflict with our First Amendment Freedom of Speech.

Indeed. I heard 6 billion USD were spend in total this election! Imagine what good could be done with the money instead. Campaign finance reform is due too!

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-08 06:38:59 and read 2991 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
Death penalty for voter fraud INCLUDING voter intimidation,

That would wipe out the New Black Panther Party.  Wow!

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-08 09:29:21 and read 2985 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 48):
Punishment is supposed to be appropriate for the crime.

Actually, punishment is supposed to prevent the crime. And given that voter fraud is tantamount to sedition, which does carry a death penalty, I'm not sure I'm out in looney-tunes land.

But, as predicted, the right doesn't like the idea because they don't wanna die.

Fines are OK for speeding and parking tickets, but not for crimes that attack our very democracy. I'd call for some hefty jail time at least.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-08 09:44:28 and read 2985 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 57):
And given that voter fraud is tantamount to sedition, which does carry a death penalty, I'm not sure I'm out in looney-tunes land.

So for the lady who filled in a couple of spots on two ballots here in my county that I linked to above, just for the record, you advocate the death penalty for her crime? Or is there some dividing line you would apply somewhere in there?

And let's be clear about the punishment for treason and sedition:

Title 18 says: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-08 09:52:07 and read 2985 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 58):
So for the lady who filled in a couple of spots on two ballots here in my county that I linked to above, just for the record, you advocate the death penalty for her crime? Or is there some dividing line you would apply somewhere in there?

Did she do it on purpose for the express motive of altering the outcome of the election?

Do I think she personally should be put to death? No. Because there was no such law in place at the time. However, if it is made loud and clear that voter fraud (and remember, to be a crime there must be criminal intent) is a capital offense before an election and someone does it anyway, then yes. Capital punishment. Or at least a hefty prison term.

The reason she did it is because she figured that even if she didn't get away with it, she'd get away with a slap on the wrist. If the stakes were higher, we'd see less of it.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-08 10:00:27 and read 2984 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 59):
Did she do it on purpose for the express motive of altering the outcome of the election?

We don't know, the investigation is still ongoing.

My question to you is how broad a stroke you're making with your brush, which seems pretty wide.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 59):
Do I think she personally should be put to death? No. Because there was no such law in place at the time.

Just a couple of posts up you said that voter fraud = sedition, for which the punishment is death. That's codified in Title 18 and is the law of the land.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-08 10:05:19 and read 2984 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 60):
My question to you is how broad a stroke you're making with your brush, which seems pretty wide.

My brush is wide. Very wide indeed. I have absolutely no use for those who think they know better than democracy.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 60):
Just a couple of posts up you said that voter fraud = sedition, for which the punishment is death. That's codified in Title 18 and is the law of the land.

I am pointing out that I do not believe in ex-post-facto laws. If she knew going into it that she could be put to death for voter fraud and decided to go ahead with it, then yes, death.

In this case there was no such law. So no death this time. Next time, put the law in place, make it very well-known, insist on a proof-beyond-reasonable-doubt that the act was intentional, and then bust out the pentobarbital and potassium chloride.

Generally, I oppose the death penalty, but for election fraud I think it would be a spectacular deterrent.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-11-08 10:09:04 and read 2985 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 61):
In this case there was no such law.

If voter fraud = sedition, as you claimed, why wouldn't the punishment in Title 18 apply?

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-08 10:11:14 and read 2988 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 62):
If voter fraud = sedition, as you claimed, why wouldn't the punishment in Title 18 apply?

I'm saying it should. However the present law doesn't allow it. I'm saying it should.

Are you suggesting that I should support an ex-post-facto policy?

I promise you that if the Democrats suggest to the GOP that we define voter fraud as sedition to cut down on all this voter fraud they're worried about, the GOP will balk. Why? Because guess who is doing most of the fraud...

And no, I haven't gone off the deep end. I am simply carrying the GOP argument to its logical conclusion. Because I know (and they know) that it's a load of horsepiss. They want to accuse the left of fraud so that they can legally commit fraud.

[Edited 2012-11-08 11:09:24]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2012-11-08 11:10:42 and read 2984 times.

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 55):

In all western civilizations Sunday is the standard day for elections.

Just for future reference. Elections are held on Saturdays in Australia

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 55):
I heard 6 billion USD were spend in total this election! Imagine what good could be done with the money instead. Campaign finance reform is due too!

I think that figure, excludes union monies going into election campaigns, so overall its much more than 6 billion

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 59):
Did she do it on purpose for the express motive of altering the outcome of the election?

Doc, really, I wouldn't worry about an election.

You guys in the US, have for many years enjoyed the death penalty (in some states)

Has it altered criminals behavior any ?

The graph below, show's, that despite having the death penalty, the rate of executions has generally gone up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...sep/21/death-penalty-statistics-us

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: scbriml
Posted 2012-11-08 12:17:51 and read 2985 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 47):
Imagine if there were a death penalty; I doubt he would have done it.

Hmm, because the death penalty has totally stopped murder and rape. Oh wait...

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 55):
In all western civilizations Sunday is the standard day for elections.

So the UK is no longer a civilised country?    Our elections are always held on Thursdays.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-11-08 12:51:49 and read 2983 times.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
How else do you ensure one person one vote

Having IDs doesn't ensure one person one vote. People who want to vote twice can just get a fake ID.

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 30):
When creating the U.S. Constitutional, the forefathers designed a system to avoid the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. In a republic, the federal government serves the people, not the other way around. Limiting federal powers, and giving it to the individual states (representing individuals) is one way to achieve balance.

There should not be 50 state standards for a federal election. States can run elections for state offices however they want. But when it comes to Congress and the president, there needs to be a federal standard.

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 30):
A national campaign would lead to a national outreach with much greater emphasis on large metropolitan areas such as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Houston, and Atlanta, for example, There would be little incentive for campaigns to account to the needs and desires of citizens in differing states and regions that lay in between.

The present campaigns avoid those cities as well, except for fundraising purposes.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: FrankAMS
Posted 2012-11-09 04:25:21 and read 2975 times.

Issues with voter ID are something I'll never fully understand. One person, one vote. And if you're registered to vote, there's almost a statistical certainty that you have some form of government ID (driving license...). I really don't understand why the American people are so obstinate in adding a safeguard for voter fraud which is really not hurting anyone. Like one post said, you have to show your ID for alcohol, tobacco, firearms, travelling, etc. so why not extend ID requirements to something as integral to the US as their elections? The Dutch have a strict ID policy: no official Dutch ID, no vote. Period. Prove you're eligible before you take that red pencil and make that mark.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-09 05:59:32 and read 2975 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 66):

There should not be 50 state standards for a federal election. States can run elections for state offices however they want. But when it comes to Congress and the president, there needs to be a federal standard.

And actually there can be even more than that when you get into election equpment. Growing up in South Carolina, there were multiple voting methods used within the state. In Richland County, where I grew up, we had the lever style machines. Other counties used the Votmatic punch cards, other counties used bubble-in ballots that were optically scanned, other counties used electronic machines. If my memory serves me correctly, if we had moved from, say, Richland to neighboring Kershaw County, we would have gone from lever to a optically scanned ballot. That's since changed, as I believe all 46 counties now use electronic machines. Living in North Carolina now, Wake County uses optically scanned ballot. If I lived in Mecklenburg County, though...electronic machine. Johnston County, right next door, uses both optically scanned ballots AND electronic machines, depending on your precinct.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-09 07:13:14 and read 2973 times.

Quoting FrankAMS (Reply 67):
Issues with voter ID are something I'll never fully understand. One person, one vote. And if you're registered to vote, there's almost a statistical certainty that you have some form of government ID (driving license...).

Actually not. Lots of urban voters don't drive. Lots of rural voters don't drive.

Quoting FrankAMS (Reply 67):
I really don't understand why the American people are so obstinate in adding a safeguard for voter fraud which is really not hurting anyone.

Because if it isn't done correctly, it does hurt people. Data shows ID laws statistically disenfranchise minorities disproportionally. I personally wouldn't have a problem if the government started a program to distribute IDs for free and then measured that they were able to do so to solve the issue, then changed the law. Others of course feel Americans should not have to carry ID cards. I was opposed to what we saw a few months ago where certain parties were trying to change the law months before the election, before they could prove that requiring ID did not disenfranchise any particular group disproportionately.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2012-11-09 07:44:36 and read 2976 times.

Quoting FrankAMS (Reply 67):
The Dutch have a strict ID policy: no official Dutch ID, no vote. Period. Prove you're eligible before you take that red pencil and make that mark.

But the Dutch, and citizens of many other countries, already have an ID no matter what because it is required of them at 18. I have lived for years in a country similar and close to the Netherlands, so I do understand how resistance to voter ID seems bizarre.

There is no national ID card in the US. The list of documents accepted as proof of age to buy alcohol sometimes includes documents that are not accepted for voting requirements, a minority of the population travels by air, other forms of domestic travel do not require ID... Just a few of the reasons why someone can fully function in the US without having the proper ID to vote.

Do realize, however, that it is generally not the requirement for voter ID that is being opposed, but how it is implemented.

What if the Dutch population was told a month before the next election, they'd need a special ID, that the only place it can be issued is in Amsterdam, between 8 am and 4 pm Monday through Friday and it'll cost €40.

Oh and by the way, voting is not mandatory. Ask yourself honestly, how many people from Maastricht and Groningen are going to take the day off to get that special ID they've never carried before?

Now put yourself in the shoes of someone living off minimum wage two hours away from the nearest County office somewhere in the US? Would they bother?

Make it cheap, make it easy to get, give people plenty of notice, and I think most, if not all, of the resistance will go away.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-09 11:01:50 and read 2974 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 65):
Hmm, because the death penalty has totally stopped murder and rape. Oh wait...

This is very different. Violent crime involves a certain irrational mindset to start with, but:

The death penalty does not deter murder because in first-degree murder, the murderer thinks he will get away with it and in second-degree murder the murderer is not thinking about consequences.

When it comes to voter fraud, it's shockingly easy to get caught. First of all, there are always witnesses; you have to pull a magic trick and commit a crime in front of all of them without them noticing that you're doing it. So in this case, it might actually work well as a deterrent. I promise you that if there was a death penalty, people would not intentionally "vote early and often." Candidates would not call likely voters for opponents and and give them the wrong time/place for the polls. Those guys in black in Redwood City wouldn't have even thought about pulling the stunt they did.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 70):
There is no national ID card in the US. The list of documents accepted as proof of age to buy alcohol sometimes includes documents that are not accepted for voting requirements, a minority of the population travels by air, other forms of domestic travel do not require ID... Just a few of the reasons why someone can fully function in the US without having the proper ID to vote.

Also, there are a lot of African Americans in the South who were born at home during the Jim Crow days. They don't have birth certificates. So they can't get a photo ID.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 14:00:58 and read 2974 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Thirdly, I get why back in the 1800s why Tuesday was chosen as the day for voting, but why not change it to Saturday. That way more people can vote? Sersiously... ridiculous again.

Saturday or Sunday elections during football season? You've got to be kidding. Saturday is when college football games are played with the exception of a handful of games played on Thursday and Friday nights televised nationwide on ESPN and Thanksgiving and the Friday after. November is when the most important college rivalries are played.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 14:10:49 and read 2973 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 54):
Primary elections - we do need a Federal limit as to when the earliest primary elections and other processes (like the cacuses used in Iowa) can take place. Once again, the original dates were set by an agrarian society, to do it before the planting of crops in early spring. We should standardize the primary for national posts from not earlier than April 15th and not later than June 15. In some states and localities, they have municipal elections in April or May as their officials take office on July 1st to match the fiscal year they follow.

I really resent the primary season being moved up to early January. They even held the Iowa Caucus during the college bowl season in 2008. Since it is required to attend the caucuses in person, I'd love to see the Iowa Caucus be scheduled for the same day as the University of Iowa is scheduled to play in a bowl game.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: BoeEngr
Posted 2012-11-09 14:23:40 and read 2972 times.

I know not everyone is for it, but here in Washington State, where voting by mail is mandatory, I love it. When it's time to vote, my wife and I make a night of it. We get our ballots, voters pamphlets, and computer, and sit down at the table together, discuss and research each one, make decisions, and vote. We're more likely to vote this way than when we had to go to polling places, though I do miss the patriotic feeling I always had going in to the polling locations.

However, when we did go to a polling location to vote, I was never once given a paid break to go there. I had to go in the evening, after work, or on a non-paid break (like lunch) while at work.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-09 14:32:19 and read 2973 times.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 74):
I know not everyone is for it, but here in Washington State, where voting by mail is mandatory, I love it. When it's time to vote, my wife and I make a night of it. We get our ballots, voters pamphlets, and computer, and sit down at the table together, discuss and research each one, make decisions, and vote. We're more likely to vote this way than when we had to go to polling places, though I do miss the patriotic feeling I always had going in to the polling locations.

        

You guys in WA are just too sensible: vote by mail, and now legalized recreational marijuana.

Damn, I hate to have to sell my house and move, but people around here just don't get it.

BTW did votership go up when WA went to vote-by-mail?

Did the vote shift in any particular definition?

Did that voting session with the wife result in any major arguments?  Smile

[Edited 2012-11-09 14:35:03]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: BoeEngr
Posted 2012-11-09 14:43:45 and read 2969 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 75):
You guys in WA are just too sensible: vote by mail, and now legalized recreational marijuana.

Well, for the next vote, we can sit in our living room and vote while we get high...  
Quoting Revelation (Reply 75):
BTW did votership go up when WA went to vote-by-mail?

Not sure. I'll do some digging and check the numbers. I would suspect yes. I know I've voted more since then.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 75):
Did the vote shift in any particular definition?

Another good one. Although in this state (the western half, anyway), it's like asking if we changed our shade of blue.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 75):
Did that voting session with the wife result in any major arguments?

I'm not at liberty to say.  

It's actually been pretty interesting. She grew up in a pretty conservative, mid-west household, while I grew up in a more liberal, pnw household. We definitely don't agree on everything, but we agree on all the major stuff.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 14:44:17 and read 2970 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 75):
You guys in WA are just too sensible: vote by mail, and now legalized recreational marijuana.Damn, I hate to have to sell my house and move, but people around here just don't get it.BTW did votership go up when WA went to vote-by-mail?

I'm not a fan of voting by mail for able-bodied people inside the borders of their county. It has too much potential for fraud. I can understand why Washington and Oregon do this. It prevents early election returns from the east coast from depressing voter turnout when there are still 3 hours of voting left on the west coast.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: BoeEngr
Posted 2012-11-09 14:50:31 and read 2973 times.

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 77):
I'm not a fan of voting by mail for able-bodied people inside the borders of their county. It has too much potential for fraud. I can understand why Washington and Oregon do this. It prevents early election returns from the east coast from depressing voter turnout when there are still 3 hours of voting left on the west coast.

I actually feel less intimidated by voting at home. And I'm yet to see any indications that there is more voter fraud in states with mail in ballots than states without. I would suspect the opposite.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-09 15:02:43 and read 2975 times.

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 77):
It has too much potential for fraud.

The downside of increased potential for fraud seems to me to be offset by the increased potential for participation.

We keep saying we want everyone to vote, but we then do next to nothing to facilitate it.

Note that facilitate means to make it easy, not just feasible.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 76):
We definitely don't agree on everything, but we agree on all the major stuff.

Like she's always right?  

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 15:03:50 and read 2975 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 70):
What if the Dutch population was told a month before the next election, they'd need a special ID, that the only place it can be issued is in Amsterdam, between 8 am and 4 pm Monday through Friday and it'll cost €40.

The Texas voter ID law was passed in 2011 with plenty of time for people to get a photo ID. The Texas law is pretty flexible about which government issued ID's are allowed. The law allows Drivers licenses, military ID's, Government worker ID's, Texas ID cards, US passports, and Texas Concealed Handgun Licenses. Anyone who can't afford to get an ID card can get a free card issued by the DPS (Texas Department of Public Safety). The Department of Justice blocked the implementation of the Texas Voter ID law for the 2012 elections even though it is almost identical to the law passed by Iowa and held up by the US Supreme Court. It was just announced today that the US Supreme Court will hear Texas' lawsuit against the Justice Department in June.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...-11e2-8448-81b1ce7d6978_story.html

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 15:19:14 and read 2971 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 79):
The downside of increased potential for fraud seems to me to be offset by the increased potential for participation.

In Texas and other states there is early voting in which voters vote in person. In Texas it lasts 12 days and includes 1 weekend. In other states it lasts even longer. It has much better safeguards against fraud and electioneering, and it allows people who have work conflicts numerous opportunities to vote. It's just as easy to gather information about all the candidates and propositions and deciding who and what to vote for and against for in person voting as for mail in voting. I found all the information I needed on the web and made a decision for every item on the ballot. It took me just 3 or 4 minutes in front of the voting machine to input my choices.

One thing I found out by working the elections on election day is that the voters who turn up on election day are the least prepared voters. During early voting most of the voters seemed to know which candidates and propositions they wanted to vote for, while many of the voters on election day were clueless. Even though I had a longer line in early voting, it went fairly quickly. Some of the election day voters were taking 30 minutes to vote, because they had to read the propositions on the voting machines.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 15:54:34 and read 2969 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
Basically, because voting is done at a municipal level, which means each municipality has their own style of voting machines and their own budget for acquiring and maintaining those machines.

The laws are set at the state level. The counties have their choice of a few systems approved by the state government.

In Texas, all the punch card systems were gotten rid of years ago. Most counties now use electronic voting machines, while some still use optically scanned paper ballots. Absentee mail-in ballots are optically scanned paper ballots. The laws for voting and counting votes are uniform throughout the state.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-09 16:11:36 and read 2973 times.

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 82):
The laws are set at the state level. The counties have their choice of a few systems approved by the state government.

Not exactly sure where our posts intersect or not. I think you are in general correct, but it is my recollection where I grew up in CT that the budget to maintain and upgrade our voting machines, and the cost for the elections themselves, came out of the town budget, not county or state, and thus the decision to upgrade was made at the town level. I'm sure the state had the approval of what types of machines could be used, but at that time they certainly did not pay for any of them, nor did our county government.

I've noticed that in certain states the counties are pretty significant entities with significant budgets and the ability to levy significant taxes, and in other states, counties are mostly units of organization for the court system and are funded by the state. Most of the states I've lived in like CT and NH are the later. One exception was NY, where the county I lived in had its own sales tax and did god-knows-what with it.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: flyingclrs727
Posted 2012-11-09 18:58:16 and read 2968 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 83):
Not exactly sure where our posts intersect or not. I think you are in general correct, but it is my recollection where I grew up in CT that the budget to maintain and upgrade our voting machines, and the cost for the elections themselves, came out of the town budget, not county or state, and thus the decision to upgrade was made at the town level. I'm sure the state had the approval of what types of machines could be used, but at that time they certainly did not pay for any of them, nor did our county government.

After the 2000 election there was lots of federal money given to state and local governments to allow them to upgrade their systems. In the 1990's Texas modernized it's election laws and wrote explicit state-wide instructions about how voter intent was to be determined using the various voting technologies in use around the state. After 2000, all counties in Texas that still had them, were required to get rid of punched cards. My county had scanned paper ballots in 2000 but now has electronic voting machines. I still prefer the scanned ballots. They are machine readable but also human readable, so it possible to verify that the vote counting is not rigged.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-10 06:15:06 and read 2965 times.

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 84):
My county had scanned paper ballots in 2000 but now has electronic voting machines. I still prefer the scanned ballots. They are machine readable but also human readable, so it possible to verify that the vote counting is not rigged.

I too prefer the scanned ballots, for the same reason. Thanks for the update!

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-11-10 09:08:31 and read 2960 times.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 74):
We get our ballots, voters pamphlets, and computer, and sit down at the table together, discuss and research each one, make decisions, and vote.

And this is exactly why I disagree with this type of voting. Quite frankly a "matriarch" or "patriarch" or some domineering person could control how the other person votes as your vote is not private and not yours alone. I think that is a bad situation. I think mandatory privacy while voting is a must. Mail in voting does not provide for that. I understand there are some situations where it is needed and beneficial, but freedom to vote must be balanced against the freedom OF the vote being cast.

My wife and I also sit down together and discuss things and research things, but when it comes time to vote we have our privacy in a booth in a polling station where no one else can influence our vote.


Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 78):
I actually feel less intimidated by voting at home. And I'm yet to see any indications that there is more voter fraud in states with mail in ballots than states without. I would suspect the opposite.

What if if your wife were rabidly passionate about a certain topic that you were voting on and you felt totally opposite about it? How would you handle that? Also for the how does your state manage those people in between addresses or without an address?

Tugg

[Edited 2012-11-10 09:15:27]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-10 11:24:27 and read 2958 times.

Quoting tugger (Reply 86):
And this is exactly why I disagree with this type of voting. Quite frankly a "matriarch" or "patriarch" or some domineering person could control how the other person votes as your vote is not private and not yours alone.

Yes, and so there is some select group of people who are influenced if not intimidated by a strong figure who are not strong enough to vote for themselves via mail but are strong enough to defy the intimidation when in a private booth. I feel that's a small number compared to those who would vote if voting was a lot simpler and didn't involve a trip and a long queue where people around you are doing their best to influence you to vote for the candidate of their choice.

I also think it encourages more thought about the candidates and the issues before the vote.

And, all in all, the data from WA suggests that it's a lot cheaper for the taxpayers.

But what do I know, it could be that mailed ballots get tossed in the trash at the same rate by the same people who don't vote now.

On the other hand, there could be a bunch of people who fear that vote by mail might cause an unwanted group of non-voters to become voters.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Wolbo
Posted 2012-11-10 12:12:41 and read 2962 times.

Four days after the election Florida is just about done with counting the votes and has declared Obama the winner. There must be third world countries who take even longer to count the votes so I guess some kind of congratulations are in order for Florida.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2012-11-10 19:20:58 and read 2960 times.

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 88):
There must be third world countries who take even longer to count the votes

Really? Which one? Usually, it takes them but 5 minutes to declare the incumbent winner with 98% of the votes...

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-10 21:17:26 and read 2960 times.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 76):
Well, for the next vote, we can sit in our living room and vote while we get high...

I want to see a news anchor holding a straight face while announcing that Cheetos just got elected Governor of Washington.  

Anyway, I think there needs to be some national standards set. Like: if the average wait time at the ballot box in your state exceeds 60 minutes, you lose all of your federal highway funding. Or something.

We cannot have 8-hour lines anymore. That's not how democracy is going to work well.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-10 21:27:57 and read 2957 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):

Do you have a choice in which drive through to vote or is it assigned by where you live?
Here in Maryland they've had drive up flu shots, never heard of the drive through system sounds good.

A lot of good ideas to improve voting. Certain things should be standardized.
1. Hours for polling places should be uniform nationwide.
2. Early voting all 50 states same time, same hours. 14 days straight ending on the First Tuesday in November.
3. Several satellite locations where one can vote 24/7 during the voting period.
4. Ability to cast your vote anywhere in the nation. Just like you can use a Bank of America whether you are in Minot, ND. or Miami Beach even if you live in Baltimore.
5. One type of voting machine/booth/kiosk. Standardized. This way you can have drive ups, and conventional walk up/walk in polling. This may take a while but have it set up where you can input your name, social security number or finger print/eye scan. So, if I'm on company business training (WN in DAL) and I live in Baltimore my ballott would have the POTUS race and the local elections (state, municipal etc.) If you can do automatic banking anywhere and if police can check your driving record almost anywhere why can't this happen in the voting booth/arena? This would minimize the cumbersome old school present an ID where someone has to check and cross reference. Eventually we could have Internet Voting. If not from an individual PC you'd come to a polling place and do it online. Again standardized
At a central location, a paper ballott would print or there would be the ability to print one's vote. Also, on the standardized voting machine/system there would be the option and capability for one to get a printed receipt of your votes.
6. Again something for the tech people to figure out: When it comes to broadcasting results, black out the later time zones. Heck, the ISP's could black out election results in the later time zones. This way we on the East Coast could get our results and not have to stay up all night because CAliforinia is three hours earlier. The TV and RAdio networks would be responsible for their time management and not let the cat out of the bag in those later time zones. Have some severe consequences if there's an information breach.

6. One Nationwide Presidential Primary: Standardized like the General Election. This could be the first two weeks in April, May or June. See above for my two week voting period.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-11 07:22:45 and read 2958 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 90):
We cannot have 8-hour lines anymore. That's not how democracy is going to work well.

Indeed, one thing vote-by-mail fixes.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
Early voting all 50 states same time, same hours. 14 days straight ending on the First Tuesday in November.

Sounds great to me.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
Several satellite locations where one can vote 24/7 during the voting period.

Costly.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
One type of voting machine/booth/kiosk. Standardized.

Costly. There are tens of thousands of voting districts in the US, with the need for multiple machines per district depending on how you do it.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
One Nationwide Presidential Primary: Standardized like the General Election. This could be the first two weeks in April, May or June. See above for my two week voting period.

I like the idea that the process takes some time and the field narrows as time goes on, but the process is too long right now, and there's too big a gap between the primaries and the conventions (which was a big part of Romney's downfall, according to insiders). I also feel the small states will be ignored if the big states go too early.

Maybe have six primary sessions, two weeks apart, starting with smallest states and moving to the biggest states? It'd cut the process down to 12 weeks or three months, yet still have enough time to show which candidates have the organizational skill and popular interest to sustain a campaign.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2012-11-11 09:19:34 and read 2959 times.

I have a question regarding the voting process in the U.S. I was told that people don't need to show an official ID to vote in the elections. This applied to the latest Presidential election - at least that they didin't ask for any official proof of ID in certain voting places. How is this possible?

What would be considered an official proof of ID to vote in the U.S. Driver's license? Passport? Social Security number? Any or all of these can be faked but asking for no proof of identity?...

 Wow!  

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: seb146
Posted 2012-11-11 10:12:55 and read 2957 times.

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 88):
There must be third world countries who take even longer to count the votes so I guess some kind of congratulations are in order for Florida.

Yet, in Canada with national elections, it takes one day to count every single vote. Here, they just sample. I honestly don't know if my vote, that was turned in three weeks before the election, was counted.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
4. Ability to cast your vote anywhere in the nation. Just like you can use a Bank of America whether you are in Minot, ND. or Miami Beach even if you live in Baltimore.

No, that will not work. Even though it is a federal position, each state elects members to the Electoral College to cast votes for president. So, if there are 100,000 more votes in Orlando, that would skew the state numbers higher and, in subsequent elections, give them more electoral college votes and more seats in the House.

Good idea, but that would not work.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 93):
I was told that people don't need to show an official ID to vote in the elections. This applied to the latest Presidential election - at least that they didin't ask for any official proof of ID in certain voting places. How is this possible?

If there is any question as to the voter's identity, the officials at the polling place can ask for ID. It does not happen because of the whole "one person, one vote" thing. In Pennsylvania, for example, they found no instances of voter fruad. At all. This was just a talking point by the right wing to scare everyone.

If an official does ask that ID be shown, it must be state issued. Drivers' liscence or state issued ID (which most states charge for and could be argued that is a poll tax). I suppose a passport could work if it has the current information on it. Mine has my middle name spelled wrong. Thanks, State Department!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 93):
What would be considered an official proof of ID to vote in the U.S. Driver's license? Passport? Social Security number? Any or all of these can be faked but asking for no proof of identity?...

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2012-11-11 11:27:04 and read 2955 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
Ability to cast your vote anywhere in the nation.

For that to be doable, you'd need one of two things:
a) a national ID card (or at least national voter ID card);
b) a secure network to verify everyone's right to vote either with a central database fed by every state, or directly with each state.
As things stand, police officers in some states are unable to verify in real time the authenticity of a driver's license issued in another state, so while your idea has merits, it would be very expensive to implement. In addition, I'm sure you know you can count on massive opposition against any form of national ID, even if it is just to vote.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
One Nationwide Presidential Primary:

You just declared war on Iowa. How would it work in principle though? Not another version of the electoral college, I hope, that is a mess in its own right.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 91):
Again something for the tech people to figure out: When it comes to broadcasting results, black out the later time zones

I suppose the technology does exist to do that on tv, thanks to sports blackouts, but I don't feel comfortable having the government asking ISPs to block access to certain web sites, and then the question becomes how widespread do you want it to be? Presidential elections gather huge interest outside the United States. Will you ask cable companies and ISPs to block access to the CBC and the BBC as well?
France has a law severely limiting the amount of information that can be released on polling day until the last poll location has closed. All that it does is encourage curious French citizens to check out the web sites of Francophone news organizations outside the country, such as Switzerland or Belgium, that are more than happy to satisfy them.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-11-11 11:28:49 and read 2955 times.

Out here The Voting machines work fine & considering the population of Voters....Its the best Alternative.....

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: BoeEngr
Posted 2012-11-12 06:45:50 and read 2953 times.

Quoting tugger (Reply 86):
What if if your wife were rabidly passionate about a certain topic that you were voting on and you felt totally opposite about it? How would you handle that?

She would vote how she wants and I would vote how I want. Simple as that. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-12 10:35:05 and read 2955 times.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 93):
I have a question regarding the voting process in the U.S. I was told that people don't need to show an official ID to vote in the elections. This applied to the latest Presidential election - at least that they didin't ask for any official proof of ID in certain voting places. How is this possible?

The US doesn't have an official national ID, and Americans in general do not favor having one, in particular those who do not want the role of the federal government to grow.

The state driver's license is being abused as a national ID to a great extent, and even coming up with a standard for the content and format of the state driver's license is controvercial:

Quote:

The Department of Homeland Security has the power through the Real ID Act of 2005 to set standards relating to identification of applicants and license design for state-issued driver licenses and identification cards. States are not required to comply with RealID, but if a state does not comply, any driver licenses or ID cards issued by that state will not be valid for any official purpose with the Federal government, meaning they will not be accepted for entering federal buildings or boarding airplanes.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver%...cense_in_the_United_States#Real_ID

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-14 19:26:48 and read 2953 times.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 94):
No, that will not work. Even though it is a federal position, each state elects members to the Electoral College to cast votes for president. So, if there are 100,000 more votes in Orlando, that would skew the state numbers higher and, in subsequent elections, give them more electoral college votes and more seats in the House.

But, when you input your social security number or other ID form, your customized ballot would come up. So, if I'm in South Beach on Election day and I vote, my Baltimore, Maryland ballot would come up and register the vote to my locality.
Again if you put some technical heads together they could come up with a viable economical system to do this. It may take a while but is doable.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: steffenbn
Posted 2012-11-15 20:52:49 and read 2951 times.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
it being the law that every citizen must vote,

And how exactly would this be enforced ?

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2012-11-15 20:55:55 and read 2951 times.

Quoting steffenbn (Reply 100):
And how exactly would this be enforced ?

The same way it is in Australia.

http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_australia.htm

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: steffenbn
Posted 2012-11-16 04:53:51 and read 2949 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 101):
The same way it is in Australia.

http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_au...a.htm

20 AUD?? Wow, the state earns quite some dollars when there's some kind of election. According to Wikipedia, about 95 percent of the Aussie's vote, wich leaves the rest 5 percent to pay 20 AUD. Again according to Wikipedia the population of australia is 22,813,438 milion. Let's say that 2 percent can't vote for some reason, that leaves 3% voters who doesn't vote and without some excuse for not doing it.

3% of 22.813.438 = 684 403 million voters.

684 403 times 20 AUD = 13,688 million AUD dollars! Maybe we should do this in Denmark, that would get the state an income of approx. 13,637 million AUD Dollars - equvilant to 68,517 million Danish Kroners...

-Maybe that's the way to go, instead of all those darn tax-raises we get! (although Denmark have a voting turnout between 86-88%)

Topic: RE: Why Is The Voting Process In The US So Ridiculous?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-16 05:47:17 and read 2951 times.

Quoting steffenbn (Reply 102):
22,813,438 milion.
Quoting steffenbn (Reply 102):
684 403 million

Hmm? Around here million is ten to the sixth power, so you're saying there's 22 times ten to the twelfth power Australians?

If so, there'd be a lot more vegemite in production than there really is...


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