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Topic: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-16 10:17:08 and read 1519 times.

Here we go again:


From CNN.com

9 Injured, 2 still missing.

The first concern is for the injured and missing.

Quote:

An oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico caught fire after an explosion Friday, sending at least nine people to hospitals and leaving two missing, authorities said.

The platform, which is for production and not drilling, is roughly 20 miles off the coast of Grand Isle, Louisiana.
[./quote]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/16/us/oil...platform-fire/index.html?hpt=hp_t3


Also form the linked store:

[quote]
The incident comes a day after the Justice Department announced that oil company BP would plead guilty to manslaughter charges stemming from the 2010 Deepwater Horizon explosion and oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

We don't know what caused to problem, but we will find out. Like the BP disaster there is going to be responsibility if it is due.

So let's take care of the people, stop any spills and find out what happened and how to prevent it in hte future.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Revelation
Posted 2012-11-16 13:23:34 and read 1519 times.

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
So let's take care of the people, stop any spills and find out what happened and how to prevent it in hte future.

And prepare for the price of gas to go up by $1/gallon or so, no?

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-11-16 13:31:45 and read 1519 times.

Quote:
The Coast Guard said that a Black Elk Energy Co. oil and natural gas platform caught fire after workers using a torch cut a line that had 28 gallons of oil in it, causing an explosion.
http://news.yahoo.com/least-2-missin...61731520--abc-news-topstories.html

Looks like a run of the mill industrial accident, and the spill was limited to whatever was in the pipe at the time.

Way to go, Ken, on a nice, understated thread title that doesn't exaggerate the event at all...

Next time a car backfires, the headline will be "Gunfire in the streets"

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-16 15:12:34 and read 1520 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
And prepare for the price of gas to go up by $1/gallon or so, no?

No.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Way to go, Ken, on a nice, understated thread title that doesn't exaggerate the event at all...

Tried to minimize any drama. Focused on the people and the fact that we will find out what happened.

I even cut & pasted the title directly from the CNN story that I linked.

So what is your problem?

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-16 17:22:24 and read 1520 times.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
So what is your problem?

Well, for one:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
I even cut & pasted the title directly from the CNN story that I linked.

The oil platform did not explode. There was an explosion on an oil platform. Big difference.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-16 19:05:35 and read 1520 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
The oil platform did not explode. There was an explosion on an oil platform. Big difference.

At the time the difference was not know. The news was so new that the name of the owner of the rig was not included in the story. Keeping quotes the main part of the opening post was, IMO, a conservative approach. As was personally putting personnel on the rig as the primary concern.

I'll stand by my cut & paste of the headline and the parts of the story I quoted.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-11-17 03:04:40 and read 1521 times.

Must be those greedy, evil, 1%ers, oil companies blowing up their rigs again.  
Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
And prepare for the price of gas to go up by $1/gallon or so, no?


That is the goal of the administration and his energy secretary Steven Chu.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Next time a car backfires, the headline will be "Gunfire in the streets"


  

[Edited 2012-11-17 03:57:52]

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: something
Posted 2012-11-17 03:13:36 and read 1521 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
That is the goal of the administration and his energy secretary Steven Chu.

Why would that be their goal? I will give you $1 per convincing argument.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-11-17 03:23:41 and read 1521 times.

Quoting something (Reply 7):
Why would that be their goal? I will give you $1 per convincing argument.

Not my argument. I'm just repeating his quote.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: something
Posted 2012-11-17 06:01:26 and read 1520 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Quoting something (Reply 7):
Why would that be their goal? I will give you $1 per convincing argument.

Not my argument. I'm just repeating his quote.

Misrepeating. He, at the time, wanted to raise taxes on gasoline in an effort to decrease America's oil consumption and thereby decrease America's dependence on foreign oil imports. Those taxes would then have been used to incentivize people or corporations to invest in vehicles and buildings with higher energy-efficiency.

It would be unpopular because who wants to pay for anything (surprising that the ''we don't want free stuff'' Republicans are first in line to stick their hands out). But there's unanimous consensus that not imposing an oil tax now is going to hurt the country's economy in the future.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Newark727
Posted 2012-11-17 07:27:52 and read 1520 times.

Apart from the semantics of the thread title, there seems to be little sensationalizing in the OP. I guess oil is now another political third rail/outrage vector.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
The oil platform did not explode. There was an explosion on an oil platform. Big difference.

Only as big as you make it considering we're still looking at eleven casualties.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Superfly
Posted 2012-11-17 08:09:41 and read 1520 times.

Quoting something (Reply 9):
Misrepeating.


Umm, no. A very accurate quote.
I know exactly why he made the quote when he said it.

Quoting something (Reply 9):
He, at the time, wanted to raise taxes on gasoline in an effort to decrease America's oil consumption and thereby decrease America's dependence on foreign oil imports.
(surprising that the ''we don't want free stuff'' Republicans are first in line to stick their hands out)



  
How is it "free stuff"?
Criticizing a tax that far exceeds the cost of production of a product is hardly begging for "free stuff".
Anyhow, the tax never went through so I guess we will never be like Europe.   

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 10):
I guess oil is now another political third rail/outrage vector.


Wasn't always like that and it's sad really.

I wish all the best to those hurt in this accident.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-17 08:54:44 and read 1520 times.

Quoting something (Reply 9):
It would be unpopular because who wants to pay for anything (surprising that the ''we don't want free stuff'' Republicans are first in line to stick their hands out). But there's unanimous consensus that not imposing an oil tax now is going to hurt the country's economy in the future.

I am not denying the hypocrisy of the GOP can be astounding sometimes, but this makes no sense. Taxes and government regulation completely go against the GOP (minus sin taxes and minus social issues.) I see the though process in raising tax on gas to encourage the creation of greener technology, but that is completely 100% not in the GOP line of thinking, at all

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-17 09:31:32 and read 1520 times.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
Tried to minimize any drama. Focused on the people and the fact that we will find out what happened.

I even cut & pasted the title directly from the CNN story that I linked.

So what is your problem?

You suggested to a hyperpartisan conservative that Big Oil might not be run by a group of angels who sit around playing harps all day and that it might not actually be the nectar from Heaven that has no problems associated with it whatsoever.

That's the problem. When the biggest ecological disasters in history have struck, Conservatives have been there to say: "It's not so bad." Deepwater Horizon is all over. All the damage is cleaned up. Didn't you know? Just ask the Conservatives.

From the OP's article:

Quote:
Black Elk's CEO, John Hoffman, said that the wrong tool was used in cutting the line.

Basically, they used a torch where they shouldn't have used a torch and it ignited some vapors.

Now, how did that happen? Why is it that the oil industry can't use aviation industry methods of assuring safe operation?

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-17 10:52:42 and read 1520 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
You suggested to a hyperpartisan conservative that Big Oil might not be run by a group of angels who sit around playing harps all day and that it might not actually be the nectar from Heaven that has no problems associated with it whatsoever.

A little hyperbolic there, aren't you Doc?

I'm pointing out that the CNN headline was misleading and Ken, even after reading the article, latched onto that misleading headline.

I've never claimed that the oil industry is full of angels. They are businessmen who are providing a vital commodity. They provide us the lifeblood of our economy.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Why is it that the oil industry can't use aviation industry methods of assuring safe operation?

Because the oil industry is not the aviation industry. That having been said, it does seem counter-intuitive that a torch would be used, even after a purge. I wonder if procedures allow a torch anytime.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Newark727
Posted 2012-11-17 12:02:40 and read 1520 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
I'm pointing out that the CNN headline was misleading and Ken, even after reading the article, latched onto that misleading headline.

That's as may be but I've yet to see why it's that important and worth picking at the way you are. In terms of human casualties, it's matched Deepwater Horizons already, according to the article, and you're not disputing that an explosion took place.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: something
Posted 2012-11-17 13:39:53 and read 1520 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
Quoting something (Reply 9):
It would be unpopular because who wants to pay for anything (surprising that the ''we don't want free stuff'' Republicans are first in line to stick their hands out). But there's unanimous consensus that not imposing an oil tax now is going to hurt the country's economy in the future.

I am not denying the hypocrisy of the GOP can be astounding sometimes, but this makes no sense. Taxes and government regulation completely go against the GOP (minus sin taxes and minus social issues.) I see the though process in raising tax on gas to encourage the creation of greener technology, but that is completely 100% not in the GOP line of thinking, at all

If the price of fuel comprises only the arbitrary rate oil is going for plus production and transport etc. then it is not accounting for the ''clean up'' of the damage it does to the environment. That is not a free market equilibrium price.

Furthermore, many people like to ask the government to lower their gas prices. Which usually means ''go to war somewhere''. Why is this a legitimate ask, but providing cheaper education is mooching? When OPEC is setting an arbitrary price then the government should step in, when medical companies exploit the hell out of the perfectly inelastic demand for medication then any government interference would be socialist and not free market like?

1. Oil costs the same relative to incomes today as it has for the past 30 years.
2. Other than in countries that subsidize it, fuel is more expensive relative to incomes in virtually every other country.
3. If you don't want to pay for fuel, drive less or buy a more efficient vehicle. Nobody is forced to buy fuel and accessing it is also not a birth right.
4. Americans make up 4% of the world population and are competing for a globally demanded, finite ressource. It doesn't take mad brain power to forecast that fuel is not going to get cheaper.
5. ''Drill here, drill now'' will not lower the price of gas by more than 1-2 cents per gallon.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
They are businessmen who are providing a vital commodity

Vital? So when oil runs out, we will all die?

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-17 14:22:06 and read 1520 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Now, how did that happen? Why is it that the oil industry can't use aviation industry methods of assuring safe operation?

Wow! Sounds like EVERYONE is asking everyone else questions here ! Here's MY question; Why would ANYONE in the oil industry want to use "methods" employed in the aviation industry ? My "best guess" would be, because they are working on OIL PRODUCTION PLATFORMS, and not AIRPLANES ?

All of which just got me to thinking...............I used to be "in and out" of General Electric's big jet engine production plant at Evendale, Oh. a lot when I was working for a rigging company; I always saw a lot J-79's sitting around, (and then tools used to work on them), and I don't recall EVER seeing any tools or equipment being used like I've seen being used on building pipe lines, or working on the "equipment" in any of the oil refineries I have been in.

And another thing which puzzles me.............how can ANYONE who normally works in a hospital, know so much MORE about working on oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, than say, a fellow who I believe works on jet airplanes ?

The way this thread is going, I'll bet before long SOMEONE is going to figure out why it was ALL George Bush's fault that thing exploded !

Charley

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-17 14:58:16 and read 1520 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 17):

I think he's talking about how safe the aviation industry is and how the oil industry's safety standards aren't as high. When you are talking about 747s crashing or oil rigs leaking millions of gallons, yes, you need to have a 99.9999999999999999999999999% success rate. Being just 99.999% successful just doesn't cut it. He isn't saying to take people from Boeing and the FAA and have them work on oil rigs.


We can be critical of oil rigs and be for oil drilling... there is nothing contradictory about that. I can't speak for Doc, but I am for American oil drilling, but I think when it comes to safety, it is lacking. Reading the accounts about the BP disaster, it seemed like it was 99.99% safe but again, that isn't safe enough. It's not like the oil industry is drowning in debt... they make enough money and it isn't unreasonable to demand super-duper safe standards (aviation industry standards, you might say)

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-11-17 16:05:57 and read 1520 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
We can be critical of oil rigs and be for oil drilling... there is nothing contradictory about that. I can't speak for Doc, but I am for American oil drilling, but I think when it comes to safety, it is lacking. Reading the accounts about the BP disaster, it seemed like it was 99.99% safe but again, that isn't safe enough. It's not like the oil industry is drowning in debt... they make enough money and it isn't unreasonable to demand super-duper safe standards (aviation industry standards, you might say)

If you are going to demand that (and I agree it is reasonable), you have to put some numbers on it. If we are to use the civilian aviation industry as a standard, let's establish the benchmarks. But we need the following numbers:

Total number of airliners in service in 2011 (average of the Dec-2010 and Dec-2011 numbers will do perfectly)
Total number of accidents in 2011, segregated by hull damage/hull write-off

Total number of wells in service in 2011 (same methodology)
Total number of accidents in 2011, segregated by (how should we do it by extent of spill? suggestions requested)

I'd suggest separated data between land wells and off-shore wells - it's a completely different business, between charlie-horses in the fields and these offshore rigs.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-17 19:55:47 and read 1520 times.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 15):
That's as may be but I've yet to see why it's that important and worth picking at the way you are

Because its sensationalism.

Quoting something (Reply 16):
Vital? So when oil runs out, we will all die?

If the oil runs out and we don't have a suitable, equivalent alternative, life as we know it will change. So, yes, it is vital. And yes, if the oil is suddenly turned off, people will die.

Anyone who doesn't understand that oil is the lifeblood of a market economy is ignorant.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-17 20:14:06 and read 1520 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
I'm pointing out that the CNN headline was misleading and Ken, even after reading the article, latched onto that misleading headline.

What version of the story did you read? When I read the article (and posted i) there was only mention of the explosion, the company's name hadn't even been mentioned.

Things changed over time, but I went with what was available at the time. can't see why you had a problem with that.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
I've never claimed that the oil industry is full of angels.

My Dad spent 43 years in the business and I consider him to have been a man of great integrity. The distribution of "good" and "bad" guys in that industry is probably pretty equal to any other business, or profession.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
Because the oil industry is not the aviation industry.

But the oil industry does have a need for a very high level of safety - just like the airline industry. When you consider the money invested in some of those platforms it is pretty easy to understand that.

And look at the costs of poor standards. BP has paid out around $25 Billion for their FUBAR so far, and there is more to come. Avoiding those problems is not rocket science. And government regulations and oversight related to significant issues is understandable.

Quoting something (Reply 16):
If the price of fuel comprises only the arbitrary rate oil is going for plus production and transport etc. then it is not accounting for the ''clean up'' of the damage it does to the environment.

THe oil industry in Oklahoma does have a clean up fund. They run ads on local stations talking about it and showing contact information if the viewer is in need of a cleanup.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-17 20:36:33 and read 1520 times.

I'm not at all certain that there is ANY meaningful way to compare the safety record of the off-shore oil industry to that of the commercial aviation industry. Even if you do try to make such a comparison, I can see little to no benefit coming from it.

Obviously, commercial aviation has a VERY enviable safety record; but the two industries are so very different, that I think comparisons are relatively meaningless.

Now........if you want to advocate "increased awareness" of "unsafe practices" in the oil industry, I'm ALL FOR that !
And I can even start it off with some suggestions, which if implemented, I can guarantee will go a long way towards eliminating occurrences such as the recent explosion and fire in the gulf. (on another thread)

Here's a problem which many people never seem to think about, when they read about big fires, big explosions; ask yourself a question; who do you suppose sets the rules, relative to, "what is, and what isn't" permissible for people working on a production oil platform, sitting 20 or so miles off-shore ? My guess would be, a "committee"; now, I have nothing for, or against "committees"; what I'm far more concerned about is.......who is ON that committee ? Exactly what is the experience, the competence, the qualifications of each member of the committee ?

Just to give a rough idea of what I'm driving at, consider this; I spent slightly more than 40 years in the trucking industry; which is I might add, an industry which is governed by more rules than most people could read in a book if they spent ten years reading the book ! Who do you suppose wrote all of those "so-called" safety rules ? I'll tell you who; the U.S. Congress ! (Don't worry, this has NOTHING to do with politics) it has everything to do with who's likely to make sensible rules to govern an industry.

The people you vote for.........the representatives, the senators......they don't write the rule book; every single member of congress has 100 "staff" Ever take a close look at any of these "staffers" ? Hint: from the roof of the Empire State Building, look down; see all this people down there ? It's a pretty "mixed bag" isn't it ? THAT"S my point ! So are the congressional "staffers" ! And THEY are the folks who write damned near ALL of the rules !
Ever actually meet one of these people ? If you ever do, I can guarantee two things right now; he/she will have A. a fancy "title" ! B. an even BIGGER income ! (for all I know, you may even find one who knows something about the oil industry !) But my guess is, for the one who does know something about anything, you'll find 100 who don't know who Albert Einstein is/was.

How do I know all this ? That's easy........I've been there; I did that; (for a LONG time) I know what you're thinking; you're thinking......I'm old, I'm dumb. I'm this, I'm that; some of that is true. But the fact remains, I KNOW about certain things, because I did that, every day. Here's an example; there's a lot of sharp people on here; there are a few people who could even help write a "rule book" to promote safety in a given industry; but it would help if they "knew about" the industry. I'm trying to think of a good example of what I mean..........

O.K., who "over-see's" safety pertaining to, say big dump trucks ? Answer; cops; in this example, an Ohio State Highway Patrolman. Having had an Ohio driver's license for the last 64 years now, I've met quite a few OSHP;
I'll just tell you about one of them..............

About 1978 or so, I stretched a nerve in my arm and had to go on worker's comp for a few months; but I HAD to work;
I got a temporary job, driving a dump truck; hauling bank-run gravel from a pit near Lebanon, Ohio, to a sewer job in Franklin, about 12 miles each way. gravel pays VERY little, and it weighs a LOT ! So the guy who owned the truck said "fill it CLEAR up ! The truck was only a single axle, so a legal max load was about 14,000 lbs of gravel; I was hauling from 24,000 to 28,000 lbs every trip; so one day as I was passing by the Lebanon Prison Farm, a State Cop pulled me over, asks how much weight I'm hauling........I said, I have no idea; (I was lying) my "instructions" are to "fill it clear up"; So the cop says, I have the weight guys on the way, but we can't weigh a truck here, so follow me to this flat place on a side road, about a mile from here; then he says........and DON"T even think about dumping your load ! Me: I wouldn't even think of it !

On the way, (at like 15 mph) I'm thinking like 100 mph ! If they get scales under this thing, we're looking at a $2,000 fine! Just as the cop gets me to the weigh spot, and he's talking to the guys in the weigh truck, I "accidentally" engage the PTO, pull out the "dump" knob, up goes the bed, out comes 28,000 lbs of gravel in the middle of the side road !
It would take too long to describe the cop, but he was GREATLY PISSED ! Immediately writes me a "littering the road" ticket; (which cost $25) Now, contrary to what you may think, a cop can NOT have a load of gravel, dirt, loaded back up, then weigh it; well, he CAN, but it won't get 2 inches in court ! This cop already knew that, so he didn't even try.

The cop was SO sure I was overweight, he goes ahead and writes up an over weight ticket, which I gave to the guy who owned the truck; we "checked around".....he's like, "what can I do to get out of this"; here's where "experience" comes in; I told him, first, you get this lawyer in Hamilton, Hugh Holbrook; he's the guy who can get you out of it. He get's Holbrook; I "suggested" this, and Holbrook told me I shoulda been a lawyer........we got a whole truck load of baled straw; filled the bed up with straw bales, just below the top edge; then took the loader, put about a yard of gravel on top of the straw bales; (the gravel is like 6 inches deep) I drive the truck to the court house in Hamilton, park right outside; court starts, judge asks the cop, "how do KNOW the truck is over weigh"? Cop: because I do this all the time; I weigh so many trucks, I can just look at how much gravel they have, and estimate if they are over weight;

So Holbrook says........."would you care to demonstrate this "skill" to the court ? I happen to have re-loaded the truck with the "spilled gravel", and it's parked right outside; the cop is starting to sweat! He knows who Holbrook is ! He knows he's "been had", he just don't know how.

Everyone goes outside; the judge asks, "does that look about like the same amount of gravel" ? Cop; "Well.....Uh...Yeah; Judge; how can you be so sure of that......how much do you estimate that truck weighs ?
At this point, the cop is wishing he'd never seen this truck; but he was trapped, and he knew it; so he made his estimate.
The judge then orders the scale guys to weigh the truck. I don't recall the numbers anymore, but it was WELL within legal limits. The judge says......."Case dismissed" ! The whole thing ended up costing the truck owner about $250 for Holbrook, plus the $25 ticket for littering the road.

So sometimes, even if you think you're an "expert" things may not be what they seem to be.

That's why I say, I'm ALL for safety rules; I just want people who know what they're doing, make the rules, instead of some schlump staffer who's never even been on an oil rig, trying to say "what's safe, and what's not safe."

Charley

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-18 18:48:21 and read 1520 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
A little hyperbolic there, aren't you Doc?

Not hyperbolic. There were conservatives here claiming that Deepwater Horizon was overblown and was never really a serious effect on the environment.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-18 22:38:19 and read 1520 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
Not hyperbolic. There were conservatives here claiming that Deepwater Horizon was overblown and was never really a serious effect on the environment.

Doc; a couple of questions.........why are conservatives any less capable of "claiming" anything, than a liberal would be ?

you may be right about what you say, but I didn't see it; maybe you can show me were I can see what was "claimed" ?

FACT: ANYONE who claimed that the amount of oil spilled in that disaster had "no serious effect" on the marine environment
is "full of it"! (and I might add, BP is now paying dearly for their "haste"!)

Another FACT; I have a very close friend who's son works as an electrician for Trans Ocean; TO owns deep water horizon, (in addition to a whole bunch of other deep water wells in the Gulf of Mexico); As you probably already know, BP had deep water horizon on lease from Trans Ocean. A few years back, my friend's son was working on oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico for a few years, made BIG BUCKS, got "fed up" being gone from his wife and kids, and quit, came back to Terre Haute, and worked here for a year as an electrician (for about 1/4th the bucks)

Then about 2 or 3 yrs ago, Trans Ocean contacted him, offered him DOUBLE what he had made in the Gulf, so he has been back working for them ever since..............off of the coast of Nigeria. ( He's the only guy in Terre Haute that commutes back and forth every 30 days to Nigeria and back.)

I've asked him a lot of questions about oil rigs in the gulf, as well as other places. It's a very well documented fact (and is common knowledge now), that prior to deep water horizon blowing up, the crew operating it was routinely breaking EVERY safety rule in the book. That explosion came as no surprise to anyone who had any real knowledge of how they were operating it.

Drilling platforms and production platforms are VERY hazardous places to work, even when ALL safety rules are scrupulously adhered to; when they are NOT adhered to.........better garb the next help to the beach !

Having said that...........the recent incident had only one similarity to deep water horizon; safety rules WERE being ignored......with the inevitable result.

Charley

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: mad99
Posted 2012-11-19 02:01:48 and read 1530 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 22):
"so-called" safety rules ?

These rules are trying to stop people like yourself from killing or doing damage to others....

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: francoflier
Posted 2012-11-19 02:34:51 and read 1530 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Why is it that the oil industry can't use aviation industry methods of assuring safe operation?

If there is any industry that could benefit from the safety knowledge and know how developed by the aviation industry, that'd be the healthcare industry, Doc...  

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-19 07:54:32 and read 1530 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 24):
Doc; a couple of questions.........why are conservatives any less capable of "claiming" anything, than a liberal would be ?

Because lately, reality has suddenly begun to acquire a very strong liberal bias.

This is not because reality has changed, but because conservatism has become about denying objective reality.

*Deepwater Horizon didn't spill very much oil and didn't cause damage
*Rape doesn't cause pregnancy
*Global warming isn't real
*Hurricane Sandy wasn't so bad
*Homosexuals are pedophiles and will lead to the downfall of civilization
*The universe is 7,000 years old and man is designed on a drawing board by God.

I could go on. But the fact is that conservatives in the USA have a serious problem with facts.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 24):
FACT: ANYONE who claimed that the amount of oil spilled in that disaster had "no serious effect" on the marine environment
is "full of it"! (and I might add, BP is now paying dearly for their "haste"!)

Then read back through those threads from 2010. You will find many such claims.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-19 08:35:56 and read 1529 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 26):
If there is any industry that could benefit from the safety knowledge and know how developed by the aviation industry, that'd be the healthcare industry, Doc...

The medical profession (IMO) is a bit different from aviation. To start with, costs of getting care has been dramatically increasing (especially in the Bush/Cheney Years) while the costs of flying has decreased. The medical profession & industry treats a lot of patients for free, or ends up turning over big bills to a debt collector. The airlines gives out free flights to employees. Big difference there.

The medical profession is also exploding with discovery. Sort of like Boeing delivering a new plane design every 3 to 6 months - year after year.

Challenges for health care in the area of safety first focus on drug testing, which (compared to 50 years ago) is pretty solid. Training at all levels (from orderlies on up) is the next problem and that doesn't get as good a grade these days. Probably because the pay is so low for the non-professionals. I had a heart cath a couple of years ago and when two young girls tried to get me to stand my leg went out from under me - the local had not worn off. I was able to catch myself, but all the two Hospital Barbies did was tell me I had "Noodle Leg". How bloody stupid - why not check before getting me up? Two untrained teeny-boppers on low pay is a pretty good example of the safety risks in a hospital. As is the lack of orderlies compared to 50 years ago.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-11-19 08:50:24 and read 1526 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
This is not because reality has changed, but because conservatism has become about denying objective reality.

*Deepwater Horizon didn't spill very much oil and didn't cause damage
*Rape doesn't cause pregnancy
*Global warming isn't real
*Hurricane Sandy wasn't so bad
*Homosexuals are pedophiles and will lead to the downfall of civilization
*The universe is 7,000 years old and man is designed on a drawing board by God.

Excuse me, but what do these statements have to do with conservatism?

I don't know of anyone who said #1
#2 was said by an idiot who speaks for nobody but himself
#3 is open for discussion. Of note is the fact that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012 there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures, according to the UK's Met Office.
#4 - Who said that?
#5 Who said that?
#6 What does christian literalism have to do with conservatism

Should we start going tit-for-tat and start painting all liberals with stupid things that some of their number say?

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-19 09:13:43 and read 1526 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
This is not because reality has changed, but because conservatism has become about denying objective reality.

*Deepwater Horizon didn't spill very much oil and didn't cause damage
*Rape doesn't cause pregnancy
*Global warming isn't real
*Hurricane Sandy wasn't so bad
*Homosexuals are pedophiles and will lead to the downfall of civilization
*The universe is 7,000 years old and man is designed on a drawing board by God.

I could go on. But the fact is that conservatives in the USA have a serious problem with facts.

May I remind you, the title of this discussion is......."Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico"

Yet all you want to do is pontificate about all of this other crap which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand.

You are attempting to argue about "things" no one else is arguing about. If you can find ONE post (of mine) where I have said "deepwater horizon didn't spill very much oil", I will be happy to vote for the next democrat who runs for anything; (but don't hold your breath)

As for your comment about who has the "serious problem" with facts, you seem to have THAT exactly "backwards"; (as usual)

Incidentally.........something I just noticed in the news..........(but it has nothing to do with oil drilling), so maybe I'll start a new thread on it. (if I feel like discussing it)

Charley

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Newark727
Posted 2012-11-19 09:45:35 and read 1525 times.

Yes, BP is paying through the nose for their Deepwater Horizon cut-up, but I think the objection DocLightning is leaving unvoiced is that conservative ideology tends to run pretty strongly in opposition to that sort of massive corporate fine and the sort of laws and jurisprudence that allowed it to take place. Not on a specific basis, maybe, but if you removed specific events such as the Deepwater Horizon disaster or specific fields such as the oil industry, I have the suspicion that you'd hear a lot of "free-market" agitation about how other companies should just take the place of the one that made a mistake or how making large monetary settlements is a product of class-action lawsuits gaming the system.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-11-19 11:25:07 and read 1525 times.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 31):
Yes, BP is paying through the nose for their Deepwater Horizon cut-up, but I think the objection DocLightning is leaving unvoiced is that conservative ideology tends to run pretty strongly in opposition to that sort of massive corporate fine and the sort of laws and jurisprudence that allowed it to take place. Not on a specific basis, maybe, but if you removed specific events such as the Deepwater Horizon disaster or specific fields such as the oil industry, I have the suspicion that you'd hear a lot of "free-market" agitation about how other companies should just take the place of the one that made a mistake or how making large monetary settlements is a product of class-action lawsuits gaming the system.

I don't think anyone argued that BP (or the company responsible for the oil rig) should go scott-free. What we don't like is when certain people want to drive the company out of business - take everything they have, drive them completely out of business (or out of the country) out of retribution. The penalty should be harsh enough to get their attention and make it clear to them that it is much more economical in the future to invest extra money in better procedures, methods and equipment than not to, but that does not threaten the viability of the business that employs many thousands of people.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: Newark727
Posted 2012-11-19 12:51:22 and read 1524 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
I don't think anyone argued that BP (or the company responsible for the oil rig) should go scott-free.

Not hardly. But on a national-policy level when proposing ideas in a more abstract sense, a lot of conservatives seem to favor policies that would make the specific scenario you oppose, BP going scot-free, more likely. Like I said, it's popular to advocate a lot of drilling, it's popular to attack or undermine the class-action suits that give a lot of these companies reason to fear legal action if they mess up too badly, it's popular to complain that government regulations (and implicitly, penalties for government regulations) hurt growth.

Topic: RE: Oil Platform Explodes In Gulf Of Mexico
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-19 14:53:50 and read 1523 times.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 33):

I could be wrong, but I think many of the right were suspicious of some of the more left-leaning comments like stopping the expansion of off-shore drilling or even reducing some rigs. I'll admit I was suspicious.

Not sure if anyone thought BP wanted to get off the hook completely, but when you have two sides fighting, it's very easy to think the other side wants the extreme opposite view of yours


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