Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/non_aviation/read.main/2468869/

Topic: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-10 12:49:50 and read 2053 times.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ts-florida-seat-remains-undecided/

Quote:
(CNN) - Despite a declaration of victory from Rep. Allen West's Democratic challenger, the bitter and expensive race for Florida's 18th congressional district remained unsettled on Saturday.

The state released new unofficial vote totals on Saturday following the noon reporting deadline. Those preliminary numbers showed Democrat Patrick Murphy, who is vice president of an environmental cleanup firm, with an edge of about 2,400 votes among 331,000 ballots cast.

Basically, Mr. West has alleged that there has been massive voter fraud and election fraud from his district since election night. In reading over both sides of the story, it seems as if his team feels that they weren't allowed to watch the recount and that votes seemed to materialize out of nowhere.

I do wonder how this is going to resolve. Will he concede? How far will he take it? Will he show up on Capitol Hill next term and need to be escorted away by the police? Or will he just bog this down in endless lawsuits until he runs out of money?

The bit that makes no sense to me is that if the Board of Elections for St. Lucie County were that corrupt in such a tight race, wouldn't [u]someone[/i] squawk? Surely even in an impartial Board of Elections, the individual workers are either Democrats or Republicans. The entire Board would have to be full of not only Democrats, but dishonest Democrats to keep such a conspiracy under wraps.

Frankly, I'm surprised that this didn't happen more. I was sure that the race would be tighter nationally and that the GOP would immediately blame fraud and refuse to concede. I have to hand it to Mr. Romney... he may have delayed a half hour, but he did concede and call for unity, as did most of the other defeated GOP candidates. But I am not surprised that it is Mr. West who is choosing to stick with ideology over reality.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: apodino
Posted 2012-11-10 12:57:00 and read 2055 times.

I do smell a rat here. The problem is...Allen West though has pissed off a lot of people in two years in the house...and you don't get things done by spending more time in front of the camera than getting things done.

Sadly, I see West as another Allen Keyes. I love and respect both men, but there is a way to stand on principal without putting down those on the other side.

There does need to be an investigation into what is going on in this district though, and in my opinion no election results should be certified until after that takes place.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-10 13:03:16 and read 2054 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
There does need to be an investigation into what is going on in this district though, and in my opinion no election results should be certified until after that takes place.

How long are we gonna draw out the investigation?

Both sides need to lay down clear, objective criteria first that will lead to a concession. You can't just "investigate" or it could on for decades.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-11-10 13:15:15 and read 2054 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
it seems as if his team feels that they weren't allowed to watch the recount and that votes seemed to materialize out of nowhere.

The stories I see say there was not a recount. That West isn't calling for a recount. His team wants to see the voter sign list for the various polling stations - to ensure that a polling station did not report more votes than the number of voters who signed in.

That might require a formal challenge to see those lists which may or may not require a lawsuit.

I really dislike the Florida process of reporting voting totals before absentee, military and overseas ballots are counted.

West may have felt that he would surge into the lead when military ballots were counted. A significant portion of the US military officer corps is extremely conservative, and agrees with the Tea Party. But a huge percentage of the US military are very young people, who are not necessarily conservative, and who do not like officers, or former officers, telling them how they should vote.

I doubt this will continue into December.

West found a platform to carry to the public his views which he could not do as a military officer. And as you point out - he hasn't make a huge number of friends in the home district with his 'work'. He is my step-son's Congressman - who was enthusiastically for him two years ago - and firmly opposed this year. Of course West is unhappy because he will become a minor footnote.

There are a lot of folks pretty hot about losing an election - but once the realities of challenging the certified results sink in - they drop the challenge.

[Edited 2012-11-10 13:22:43]

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-12 13:13:26 and read 2054 times.

Just another typical election in Florida. Maybe one of these days a court or the Feds will step in and put an end to the joke that is the Election Board.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-11-12 19:32:23 and read 2053 times.

Rep. West does have the opportunity to use legal challanges in Florida as to elections. It is a very close vote that may have issues as to the accuracy of the vote count and may need all absentee and military votes to determine. If the Democrat was also behind by like numbers, I bet he would use his legal challanges as well.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-12 19:52:09 and read 2053 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
it seems as if his team feels that they weren't allowed to watch the recount and that votes seemed to materialize out of nowhere.

Odd thing is that if his people were not allowed to watch the recount how would they "know" that votes seemed to materialize out of nowhere.

Personally I think the guy lost and is incapable of accepting that. Before that he was a big man in DC, getting all sorts of national attention. All of a sudden he's a has been. And only after a couple of years.

So let West fight all he wants. He can have another half dozen recounts. But without a majority he won't have an office in DC, won't get onto the House floor nor will he received his salary, or expense payments. Maybe at that point he will admit to himself that he lost.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: slider
Posted 2012-11-13 10:38:44 and read 2053 times.

If there are several precincts in St. Lucie County that had MORE than 100% turnout as is being reported, that's fraud, Outright. Could be prima facie evidence too that could help push for a long overdue voter ID bill.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-11-13 13:02:12 and read 2053 times.

Quoting slider (Reply 7):
Could be prima facie evidence too that could help push for a long overdue voter ID bill.

No. If a precinct organization is going to add votes to report more than 100%, they would just fake the voter ID sign rolls. They are doing that already. They aren't having 100%+ people walk in the door and actually vote.

Now a national identity card system useded as a voter ID with a national on-line database to record instantly when and where the person voted - that would be able to stop fraud.

Of course the people who want a voter ID bill are strongly against a national ID system.

Quoting slider (Reply 7):
If there are several precincts in St. Lucie County that had MORE than 100% turnout as is being reported, that's fraud, Outright.

I don't know the laws in Florida. But in some states without a voter registration deadline - where voters can register at the polls on election day with proper ID - it is possible to legally have more than 100% turnout in a precinct.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-13 13:16:38 and read 2053 times.

Yeah, just like Romney didn't receive one vote in 59 precincts in PHL. What the New Black Panther Party were the poll watchers?

Ferdinand Marcos anyone?

[Edited 2012-11-13 13:18:04]

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: aloges
Posted 2012-11-13 13:48:14 and read 2053 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 9):
Yeah, just like Romney didn't receive one vote in 59 precincts in PHL. What the New Black Panther Party were the poll watchers?

about that:

Quote:
Romney earned zero votes in some urban precincts

(...)

Incredulous Republicans might be tempted to indict voter fraud as a culprit - in reaction to the numbers, Steve Miskin, a spokesman for Republicans in Pennsylvania's state legislature touted the state's voter ID law, which did not apply to last Tuesday's election, and avowed a need to "continue ensuring the integrity of the ballot."

But, as is often the case, the reality is less salacious than the conspiracy theory - a consequence of demography, not electoral shenanigans.

Seems like the Pennsylvania Republicans didn't work hard enough for Romney... with friends like that, who needs enemies?

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: D L X
Posted 2012-11-13 13:57:25 and read 2053 times.

For what it's worth....

I also have not conceded that I lost the Florida 9th district Congressional race.


At the end of the day, it's votes that talk, not concession speeches and acceptance speeches. Which is why I wholeheartedly disagree with this:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Both sides need to lay down clear, objective criteria first that will lead to a concession.

Once election day comes around, it is not up to the candidates anymore.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-11-13 15:21:54 and read 2053 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 9):
Ferdinand Marcos anyone?

Freddy was smart enough that at least one vote was cast for each candidate in each ballot box in each election.

One of the most frightening things I've ever seen was when we were doing the clearance paperwork to see if my first wife would get a passpport and permission to leave the Philippines.

In 1975 they had a 100% election compliance law. She had to go to the local election office and get a certificate that she had voted in every election since she was 14.

They opened their record book to her page, and not only had recorded that she voted in each election, but exactly who she had voted for on every ballot position. They even questioned her about a losing candidate for a local office she had voted for a couple years previously.

During the 1976 election, she could not understand why I didn't have to vote for Ford.

"They will find out if you vote for Carter, and they will punish you in the Navy. They might even kick you out."

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: johnboy
Posted 2012-11-16 05:12:03 and read 2053 times.

There's crazy and then there's insane.

Clearly West falls in the latter category.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-16 06:30:36 and read 2053 times.

Quoting slider (Reply 7):


If there are several precincts in St. Lucie County that had MORE than 100% turnout as is being reported, that's fraud, Outright. Could be prima facie evidence too that could help push for a long overdue voter ID bill.

Or it could be that it wasn't more than 100% turnout but more than 100% cards cast:

http://dailynewsfinder.com/2012/11/1...er-141-turnout-in-st-lucie-county/

According to the website tcpalm.com, St. Lucie County voters were presented with a two page ballot which contained all of the national and state races as well as 11 constitutional amendments. A sample ballot is available from the St. Lucie County Department of Elections. An examination of this ballot makes clear what is being reported in the document the right is so up in arms about. The ballot was printed on two sides of a single page, and it appears that each side of each ballot had to be scanned separately. While admittedly confusing, the “Cards Cast” column counts the total number of scans, not the total number of ballots cast.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-17 10:02:01 and read 2053 times.

Admittedly a partisan source, but I'm focusing on the facts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...-votes_n_2148757.html#slide=883600

Quote:
Allen West's political career was granted a temporary reprieve on Friday, after the St. Lucie County Canvassing Board ordered a recount of early ballots in his race against Democrat Patrick Murphy for Florida's 18th Congressional District, NBC Miami reports.

Well, he has his recount. We'll see what it says.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: johns624
Posted 2012-11-17 10:56:51 and read 2053 times.

He probably couldn't fathom that he lost since he considers himself one of the annointed ones...

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-17 11:25:57 and read 2053 times.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 16):

He probably couldn't fathom that he lost since he considers himself one of the annointed ones...

It's true. He is one of a large number of extreme right-wing politicians who view America with great scorn and contempt and view themselves as our personal saviors.

That's why I predict that even if the recount certifies his opponent, he will not back down. That's why I predicted that he might show up at the Capitol on the first day of the new session and refuse to go away until he needs to be escorted away by police.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-17 12:23:03 and read 2053 times.

This is the same Lucie County that double counted a mayoral contest and announced the wrong winner.

"I'm not perfect and neither is my staff" Gertrude Walker, Lucie Co. Supv. of Elections. Her predecessor boss was fired for incompetance. This election, 300+ uncounted ballots found in a election workers filing cabinet.

BTW, why did she in her own election have 6K more votes than Obama. I know its possible but just sayin'

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-20 10:23:03 and read 2053 times.

And it's over.

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/20/allen_west_finally_gives_up/

Rep. Allen West, the Florida Republican best known for his impressive innovations in congressional crazy, has finally conceded to his Democratic challenger, Patrick Murphy, two weeks after election day.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-20 10:27:55 and read 2053 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 19):
Rep. Allen West, the Florida Republican best known for his impressive innovations in congressional crazy, has finally conceded to his Democratic challenger, Patrick Murphy, two weeks after election day.

I'm actually surprised. I wonder what Mr. West will do next.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-20 10:44:38 and read 2053 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):

I'm actually surprised. I wonder what Mr. West will do next.

I'm surprised too. I thought he might drag it out as long as Coleman dragged out the Minnesota Senatorial race in 2008. As for what he does, I think he'll stick around - might even try to make a go of things in 2016 but I doubt he'd get past the Republican primaries. I could also imagine there's a commentator job at Fox if he desires such.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: D L X
Posted 2012-11-20 10:45:43 and read 2053 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
I'm actually surprised. I wonder what Mr. West will do next.

Probably go back to his radio show.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-20 10:48:37 and read 2053 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 18):
BTW, why did she in her own election have 6K more votes than Obama. I know its possible but just sayin'

Not everyone votes straight down party lines. I didn't this election, and for the "moderates" in this country, it's not that uncommon

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: D L X
Posted 2012-11-20 11:16:38 and read 2053 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 21):
I thought he might drag it out as long as Coleman dragged out the Minnesota Senatorial race in 2008.

I think there's a difference: Seating Franken would have given the Dems a filibuster proof majority, so the national party pulled out all the stops to keep Franken from taking his seat. Coleman was pressured by the GOP (and funded by the GOP) to stay in pursuit of the seat.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-20 12:24:39 and read 2074 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
I'm actually surprised. I wonder what Mr. West will do next.

He has his Army retirement checks being delivered every month so he has that core financial protection.

That leves him to play any game wants and I can see him playing political games for a long time to come.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: 2707200X
Posted 2012-11-20 12:47:56 and read 2075 times.

Well Allan West may have lost to a "communist" but he has a career in AM talk radio an analyst, a panelist on Fox News.

[Edited 2012-11-20 13:14:08]

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-20 12:54:39 and read 2076 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):

Not everyone votes straight down party lines. I didn't this election, and for the "moderates" in this country, it's not that uncommon

Beyond that for positions that are non-controversial or the public generally doesn't care about, it's common for incumbents to continuously get reelected regardless of a voter's political orientation in part because there's no real gripe for/against them. The county in SC I come from, Richland County, had the same clerk of court for 24 years before she retired. I'd wager she earned more votes in Richland County than either presidential candidate a few times.

Beyond that, there were 12 candidates for president on that ballot, including Obama (one of which was Roseanne Barr running on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket with vice-presidential candidate Cindy Sheehan) whereas Ms. Walker had only one. It goes to reason that at least some of the people who didn't have a candidate from one of the 10 third parties on the ballot for president would vote for Walker.

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-11-20 13:11:55 and read 2079 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
garnetpalmetto (Reply 19):Rep. Allen West, the Florida Republican best known for his impressive innovations in congressional crazy, has finally conceded to his Democratic challenger, Patrick Murphy, two weeks after election day.

I'm actually surprised. I wonder what Mr. West will do next.

Mods, as the thread title is no longer accurate - and Mr. West has conceded - it's probably time to close this...

Topic: RE: Allen West Won't Step Down
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-20 13:19:58 and read 2084 times.

Only took 2 weeks but looks like FL's election fiasco (of 2012) has ended. Why is it always FL?

It was so hard to take Allen West seriously... it reeked of the other conspiracy theories coming from the GOP lately. I held my tongue and luckily, it seems pretty decisive that he did indeed, lose, and there is no "leftist fraud" lingering


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/