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Topic: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-14 19:21:45 and read 2879 times.

I didn't see this in the threads so here goes. There's talk of employees staging a walkout at Target and Walmart and possibly some of the other big box retail giants. Why? They are protesting the extended hours, starting Black Friday Sales on Thanksgiving Day and night. I hope they succeed and changes are made. I feel at least the one day American Thanksgiving should be for families. I have been off and worked on Turkey Day in the past. I have no problem with it. At least with my workplace FL/WN, the company shows good faith and provides us with a decent Thanksgiving repast with almost all the trimmings. This year I have the good fortune of being off. There is plenty of time for people to shop and take advantage of those supposed killer Black Friday deals. I've even felt making people come in like 0200 on Black Friday Morning is cruel and unusual punishment. This tradition of storming retail giants to save on an I Pod or whatever is crass and takes away from the meaning of Thanksgiving. Only folks that should be working on Turkey day are essential things like medical, police, fire. I know our industry flies albeit a modified schedule. At least in our industry it's generally reduced hours.
So, let this discussion begin. I vote for the employees. Target and Walmart for heaven sake take Thanksgiving off and remain closed. Your bottom line won't suffer.
For business that make their people work Thanksgiving Day how about at least show them some thanks for their hard work. Providing a nice meal for example like we do. I bet if your run of the mill government workers had to work on Turkey Day you'd have rioting in the streets.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Jetsgo
Posted 2012-11-14 19:29:41 and read 2883 times.

Sure it's ridiculous and I choose to not support it by holding off my shopping, but the simple fact is that it's RETAIL. Retail sucks. They chose this job and at the end of the day they are quite replaceable. However, like you I hope they're somewhat successful.

[Edited 2012-11-14 19:30:50]

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-14 19:46:19 and read 2881 times.

Are you seriously serious?

That's how business works. If hoards of people want to slam the stores at 2AM on a Friday morning, it would be a bad business decision to keep the store closed. If you don't like it, find another job or stand in the unemployment line.

Both companies have very specific policies that they tell you BEFORE you sign up, and it goes like this:

"You must be able to work a flexible schedule, including nights, weekends, and holidays."

Oh, and by the way:

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
There's talk of employees staging a walkout at Target and Walmart and possibly some of the other big box retail giants.

I guarantee you any employee who does that will quickly find themselves without a job.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Ken777
Posted 2012-11-14 19:48:22 and read 2882 times.

I would have no problems with Black Friday starting at a reasonable hour on Friday - like 9 AM. Reality is that they will have the same level of customer response as a Thursday opening would have.

I'll also note that brick & mortar retailers want to get sales in before Black Monday. They have disadvantages when it comes to competing with internet sites. No sales tax is right up there, along with property taxes at good retail sites.

As far as I go, there is a clear need to have a nap after a big T Day Meal with the trimmings & family & friends. If I can stay awake I might actually watch a football game. Then there are leftovers for dinner and a good night's sleep.

With a day like that why would I want to fight heavy traffic at the malls, or at the big box stores?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-14 19:51:23 and read 2881 times.

I'm not trying to be anti-worker and I always try to have an open mind... but really, if you choose to work at Walmart or Target or something, accept the hours. Even my dad with a "respectable" airline job is working Thanksgiving Thursday. I think Black Friday is stupid but I don't work for a retail store and expect to get Thursday off. Life sucks sometimes, get over it

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-14 20:29:32 and read 2881 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):

That's why God willing I will never have to work at either place. The nastiness in people rears it's ugly head when it comes to Christmas. The crass commercialism, It's an example of the dumed down "Sheeple." This is why God invented the Internet where great deals abound aplenty. I still think back to that Christmas season from hell several years ago where a Walmart employee was trampled to death all for some off brand Hi def TV made in China at a rock bottom price. I wonder how this poor soul's family is doing all for this retail stupidity and madness. Makes us look bad as a nation.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):

Been there done that I know it goes with the territory and at least I get the satisfaction that our industry makes it possible for one to be with their family at this special time of year. And as mentioned luckilly our company looks out for us.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):

True, it's part of the deal but it seems each year these cattle car retailers seem to take advantage of their worker bees. As a commentator said on the radio earlier today, had this come up during the halcyon economic go go days of the late 90's, these workers might have had a better chance of getting their point across. Now, these big box heartless retailers are in the driver's seat and can fire people and hire others probably for cheaper wages. Here's to hoping the Internet trumps all their bravado hoopla and BS with these sales and promotions.

If Rod Serling were alive today, he could write a Twilight Zone where all the government drone paper pushers were forced to work Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's day under penalty of termination. I bet, they'd be crying, and fighting in the streets.

Hey Walmart, Target and other big box prisons why don't you just stay open round the clock and get robots to do your dirty work during these crunch times. I bet the CEO's of both will be at their palatial estates ordering their servants to tote that barge and lift that bale to serve them and their families.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-14 20:42:02 and read 2881 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 5):
True, it's part of the deal but it seems each year these cattle car retailers seem to take advantage of their worker bees.

But in all honestly, the "travesty" here is working on a holiday... sucks but there was a "call to action" last year and now there seems to be murmurings of something this year... I'm sorry for ya, but having a certain holiday off is not a sacred right, and if your company wants to open ridiculously early for black Friday, well, I'm sorry... there's the front door

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-14 21:07:18 and read 2880 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):



As I said I'm thankful that you and me do not work for such companies! Have a safe and most of all happy Turkey Day. Here's an idea: Let convicts work these stores on these ridiculous shopping days. They can have RFID Chips attached to ankle bracelets so if they try to get a 5 finger discount, they get zapped. Then the sheeple (a lot of paper pushers and government workers) can get their jollies and fight each other and crush each other for that el cheapo made in China must have electronic toy for their spoiled ungrateful undisciplined children! Then the regular workers get their holiday off. Ho Ho Ho! Meanwhile if I have to work Thanksgiving day I'll be thankful I'm far away from those big box cattle cars.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2012-11-14 21:20:37 and read 2882 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
Both companies have very specific policies that they tell you BEFORE you sign up, and it goes like this: "You must be able to work a flexible schedule, including nights, weekends, and holidays."

This is not the Securities and Exchange Commission. Past history is an acceptable prediction of future behavior. I wouldn't blame the employees one bit for walking out over having to work Thanksgiving dinner because it isn't, and has never been, the company's normal conduct, just as I would condemn someone making the same complaint of any employer that does have a history of running 24/7/365.

I only hope that if the walkouts do go ahead, enough employees join so as to make reprisal impossible. They may be easy to replace individually, but try replacing and training half a store's workforce before the busiest time of the year. Big box stores need to thread carefully, especially when they apparently settled on a strategy of well-informed employees having direct contact with customers to compete against their online competitors. It doesn't jive very well either with green employees, or seasoned but angry employees...

That said, I do think any walkout is one year too late.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2012-11-14 21:34:57 and read 2880 times.

People on Black Friday are absolutely insane. My best friend works at a target in the electronics department and he got trampled last year. Someone would scream they want the tv that is 20 bucks off and someone wanted the video game that was 5 bucks cheaper. He said it is insanity. I don't blame people at all for wanting to walk out. It's amazing how poor a lot of these employees get treated by customers. Though my friend said in general working for Target is actually a great job for a college kid.
Blue

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-14 21:45:59 and read 2880 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):

Those stores give a rat's ass on customer satisfaction at least on those insane retarded sales blitzkriegs. I believe they feel they are doing the public a favor by cutting prices on some China made goods and the public should lick their bootstraps. Meaning they could care less by firing scores of employees and bringing new people on. It's chaos already so what's a little more inconvenience. Remember Walmart and Target knocked $20.00 off that made in China off brand must have toy. As long as they can get away with it, barbaric hours, treating employees like sh*t they will do it. They have a built in base of suckers who will stomp, trample each other whatever the cost as long as they buy the marked down crap for Christmas. So what if an employee of a Walmart is made into fish chum from trampelling crazies. As long as the cash register rings cha ching, Walmart or whoever will just write off the death of that poor employee and hire someone else. Anybody know what became of the family that had their breadwinner trampled to death thanks to this Christmas retail bull $h*t?

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 9):

Give the employees of these cattle cars Tasers (with a weaker than standard charge) if it gets too crazy zap em. BTW tell your friend I give my blessing and approve of him or some other Target employee snuffing out that obnoxious "Target Lady" who is literally climaxing over the fact that the Target Black Friday Sale starts Thanksgiving Day at 0200!

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: kngkyle
Posted 2012-11-14 21:48:44 and read 2880 times.

I work for Target and will be there for the first shift. (9pm thanksgiving) The store that shoppers go to first is the one they tend to spend the most money at, so the stores are in a race to the bottom to open earliest. Target didn't decide on an opening time until the other retailers made theirs public, so they're more following than leading the trend. Target is also paying us more for working black friday. I'll be getting nearly double what I usually make for the first part of my shift.

I think the stores opening during dinner time is just ridiculous though. Thankfully Target isn't one of them, so I can still have a nice thanksgiving dinner with my family before going into work at 9pm.

To be honest though, I'm kind of excited for it. I've never been a black friday shopper, so it will be kind of new for me. And instead of spending money, I'll be making money.

Also Target let us pick what shift we wanted to work, open, midday, or close. I'm not sure if everyone got what they wanted or not, but I did.

[Edited 2012-11-14 21:51:27]

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-14 21:55:28 and read 2880 times.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):

Best of luck to you! You have a great attitude. Make an employee petition to let y'all have Tasers for this tacky fest.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-14 22:26:44 and read 2880 times.

I am a former Target team member and I must say everyone in the store I worked at enjoyed black friday because of the rush and how time flies. But that was when we would open our doors at 6am... I don't understand how Walmart does this year after year, opening earlier and earlier. Even though you pay your employees next to nothing let them have a thanksgiving, the cheap TV for 50 bucks will still be there at 6am or 5am on BLACK FRIDAY.

On my last black friday I was working at the customer service counter, it was part of my duty when the store opened to hand people shopping carts as they came in. I almost got knocked down by a fat lady in a gray sweat suit, I have never seen a fat lady move that fast.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-14 23:13:49 and read 2880 times.

When I happen to be off during the holidays on any given year, I will not shop on Thanksgiving, nor will I get up early Friday morning.

Retail is retail...just like the airline industry is the airline industry and emergency services are emergency services, etc., etc. The world is getting flatter and, quite simply holidays don't mean much anymore, at least when it comes to time off, for those in the service industries, retail included.

We, the collective, have decided that we will shop on holidays. Therefore, the retailers will open their doors to us. Christmas is next.

If you choose to, or have to, work in the retail industry, you need to roll with the punches or go elsewhere.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: pellegrine
Posted 2012-11-15 02:21:50 and read 2880 times.

Working in a retail job sucks, IMO. My first jobs were in retail and food. We had nasty drunks coming in late hours sometimes... And you're working for a shi**y wage. Please.

A lot of people work in retail because they have to. Not because they want to. I make the differentiation there. There's a lack of suitable jobs for people. Americans like to buy s*** they can barely afford....ergo lots of crappy retail jobs hawking s*** from China.

Let these people rest on a de-facto national day off. The government is closed...

I never go shopping on "black friday". I don't even want to...or care about the sales LOL. To me the retail industry is one of the most disrespectful industries towards their workers. I would walk out too.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-15 02:35:26 and read 2879 times.

Quoting pellegrine (Reply 15):
Let these people rest on a de-facto national day off. The government is closed...

The government is closed on at least 10 days every year.

Quoting pellegrine (Reply 15):
I would walk out too.

Then be prepared to lose that job.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-11-15 03:48:14 and read 2882 times.

I live near Paramus, NJ, one of the biggest retail shopping locations in the USA. With so many stores (3 malls, numerous big box stores and strip malls), they kept the old 'Blue Laws' to assure a 'day of rest' for local citizens and do not allow stores to be open on Sundays, major holidays like Thanksgiving as well as not before 7 AM or after 11 PM. They do allow grocery stores, convenience stores and gas stations to be open without restrictions. Bergen County, which Paramus is located in also has similar rules county-wide. It is flashback to my youth in the 1960's to see all but the grocery section of my local Walmart closed off on Sundays. I wish that most places on a statewide basis would have similar rules except allowing Sunday opening with limited hours.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):
The store that shoppers go to first is the one they tend to spend the most money at, so the stores are in a race to the bottom to open earliest.

This is exactly why we have seen the Black Friday 'creep' to max the opportunities for sales and limited profits for the retailers. One has to wonder how much the real payoff is considering the higher labor costs, including for security, liability for injuries and the disappointing of too many customers for not having nowhere near enough of the limited numbers of 'doorbuster' items.

Another part of the 'Black Friday' walkouts/protests is at several warehouse locations for Walmart in So Cal and near Chicago, IL operated by 3rd party companies. They pay their workers minimum wage, no benefits, no opportunities for full time work, with dangerous conditions and severe demands to work to the point of encouraging injuries. They hope to attract unions to give them a better work place.

I have gone out early on 'Black Friday' but not earlier than 7 AM to nearby stores, but now I wait to at least 9 AM and this year may not go out until the big rush is over later in the morning and will go with my 83 year old mom on Saturday to do major Christmas shopping and still do pretty good financially.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: casinterest
Posted 2012-11-15 05:20:58 and read 2880 times.

In the current recession, there are many workers who will work for a price

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):
I work for Target and will be there for the first shift. (9pm thanksgiving)
Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):
. I'll be getting nearly double what I usually make for the first part of my shift.

Economic incentives on the Employee, Employer, and Customer side is what drives this zealous sales event.
The employers know that customers will shop, and the employees want money. It is a win/win for all involved.

I will be on of those, not participating. However I understand the incentives for those involved.

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
There's talk of employees staging a walkout at Target and Walmart and possibly some of the other big box retail giants.

I am sure there is talk, but I doubt it is enough to make waves. It is much like the secession threads going on. People that walk out will be replaced.

[Edited 2012-11-15 05:23:30]

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: varigb707
Posted 2012-11-15 05:32:36 and read 2879 times.

I have never gone shopping on Black Friday. Not worth my time. Stores should, however, do a Black Week instead of just one day. That would give more opportunities to everyone involved.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Cadet985
Posted 2012-11-15 08:11:49 and read 2879 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
This tradition of storming retail giants to save on an I Pod or whatever is crass and takes away from the meaning of Thanksgiving.

The sad thing is that the big deals, aren't even generally on newer high quality electronics. Look at a Best Buy ad for Black Friday. The laptops they use as door busters are usually last year's models, bad specs, yet you'll have a line 1000 people long trying to get one of maybe 6 that the store has in stock. I've been there, done the early morning shopping thing, and it's not for me anymore and I'm only 27. Besides...who are people kidding? You aren't giving that 60-inch plasma screen TV to anyone as a gift, except yourself.

If I were to go anywhere on Black Friday, I'd wait until the afternoon/evening. A few years ago, a group of us went holiday shopping Black Friday evening, and we had no trouble finding parking, and the mall wasn't that much more crowded than normal.

I 100% support the workers in this case. Thanksgiving should be a time to be with family/friends/whomever, and not have to worry about getting to bed at 2 so you can be up at 6 to go into work at 8.

Sorry Walmart, Target, etc. You won't find me in stores on Black Friday. I'd rather watch TV and wait for Cyber Monday...if I'm buying gifts - which this year I'm not since everyone on my list is getting something from my upcoming trip to Israel.

Marc

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: KaiGywer
Posted 2012-11-15 08:14:53 and read 2879 times.

Last year I didn't leave home on Black Friday. Did a lot of shopping online though. Amazon has good deals all day, and with Prime, I get free shipping. My kind of shopping   This year, the wife and her mom are going shopping. Her dad and I don't have any plans yet, but will probably involve beer  

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: falstaff
Posted 2012-11-15 08:34:04 and read 2879 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Even my dad with a "respectable" airline job is working Thanksgiving Thursday

I'll be an airline passenger on Thanksgiving day, like always.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
nor will I get up early Friday morning.

I'm usually hung over and can't get up early

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
Then be prepared to lose that job.

and have another guy take the job in no time. If you don't like working on Thanksgiving I am sure the store can easily find another person who does and will happily take the job.

Everyone is all worked up about the "poor retail employees" having to work on a Holiday. I don't hear people complaining about the Police, fireman, airline employees, railroad workers, restaurant staff, TV and radio workers and countless of other jobs that work every holiday. Some jobs require work during nights, weekends, and Holidays. If you don't like the job get a different job; I did.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2012-11-15 09:09:03 and read 2879 times.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 22):
Everyone is all worked up about the "poor retail employees" having to work on a Holiday. I don't hear people complaining about the Police, fireman, airline employees, railroad workers, restaurant staff, TV and radio workers and countless of other jobs that work every holiday. Some jobs require work during nights, weekends, and Holidays. If you don't like the job get a different job; I did.

I think there is one detail mentioned in this thread that is getting overlooked. I'll quote it below.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
Past history is an acceptable prediction of future behavior. I wouldn't blame the employees one bit for walking out over having to work Thanksgiving dinner because it isn't, and has never been, the company's normal conduct, just as I would condemn someone making the same complaint of any employer that does have a history of running 24/7/365.

I agree with this. These ridiculous Thanksgiving/Black Friday hours are a new thing and they are getting worse every year. Sure, the new seasonal workers know what they are getting into, but not everyone working retail signed up for this. Working black friday, yes. That's something that has been long established that you can count on. But having to start a shift during or right after Thanksgiving dinner? That's ridiculous and I feel bad for the people who after years working at one of these stores, now have to worry about their Thanksgiving plans.

And for the record, I work for an airline so I know all about working holidays.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: j.mo
Posted 2012-11-15 10:09:27 and read 2879 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
I bet if your run of the mill government workers had to work on Turkey Day you'd have rioting in the streets.

I usually agree with your rants Zippy, just not sure who you are referring to here. Police, fire, military and ATC are all Govt jobs. I have worked many Thanksgivings as a controller and in the Navy. No whining here.

That being said, I support the employees on this one. It's BS to open on Thanksgiving Day to pad the bottom line. Where does it stop? Next year they will open at 6pm on Thanksgiving? I'll support them by NOT shopping there.

JM

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: vikkyvik
Posted 2012-11-15 10:13:25 and read 2928 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 23):
Sure, the new seasonal workers know what they are getting into, but not everyone working retail signed up for this.

Times change. Business changes. If you can't or don't want to change with your employer, it's probably time to find a new employer.

I've had jobs where I didn't work Veterans Day, Columbus Day, Patriots Day (for us New Englanders), MLK Day, etc. Now I work all those. It's just how it goes.

My company now also has the week between Christmas and New years off. But if they decided we had to work that week next year, I wouldn't try and stage a walkout, just based on past history.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2012-11-15 10:43:47 and read 2931 times.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 25):
Times change. Business changes. If you can't or don't want to change with your employer, it's probably time to find a new employer.

I get that. But all this "they should have known what they signed up for" crap isn't entirely fair, in my opinion. From here on, perhaps. But not everyone working in retail signed up for this.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: vikkyvik
Posted 2012-11-15 11:08:14 and read 2953 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 26):
I get that. But all this "they should have known what they signed up for" crap isn't entirely fair, in my opinion. From here on, perhaps. But not everyone working in retail signed up for this.

I'm sure they didn't. But if they read their contract, they probably did sign up to possibly work holidays and weekends as necessary.

I don't personally go shopping or anything on or near Black Friday. But the demand is clearly there. Blame consumers.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-15 11:16:51 and read 2954 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 26):
signed up for this.

Signed up? It's a job, life sucks sometimes. Times are changing so if working Thanksgiving is so unacceptable, there's the front door. Thanksgiving day is not some God given right.

First world problems

(that all being said, you'll never find me out on Black Friday. I think it's ridiculous honestly)

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-15 11:29:52 and read 2956 times.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):
Target is also paying us more for working black friday. I'll be getting nearly double what I usually make for the first part of my shift.

Hogwash. I worked two Black Fridays at Target (before bolting to F9) and never received such pay. My pay during Black Friday was my standard hourly rate.

There is no Black Friday pay at Target.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: kngkyle
Posted 2012-11-15 11:50:34 and read 2956 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 29):
Hogwash. I worked two Black Fridays at Target (before bolting to F9) and never received such pay. My pay during Black Friday was my standard hourly rate.

There is no Black Friday pay at Target.

Perhaps there was no Black Friday pay. But unless my boss just lied to everyone during huddle the other day, then yes we will be getting a bonus for Black Friday, and a much larger one for the hours that fall on Thanksgiving day.

Believe what you want.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-11-15 12:44:28 and read 2948 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
So, let this discussion begin. I vote for the employees. Target and Walmart for heaven sake take Thanksgiving off and remain closed. Your bottom line won't suffer.

Well, rather than worrying about Tea Party, Fiscal Cliffs, poor infrasturcture, lack of Medicare / Medicade, jobs, government debt, rich not paying taxes, middle class bleeding, poor getting poorer the populous should have issues like this on the ballots when they go to the polls. These are the every day items that are shoved aside and not debated which have the greatest impact on the individual lives. What percentage of a business sales for the year takes place during the Thanksgiving and xmas week, I believe is it huge.

This is something to be taken to the politicians who have the authority to pass the laws to ensure that there is a level playing field. I am certain that there are a number of retailers who are hoping that these employees do walk off the job and make Target and Wal-Mart sales tank because theirs will be improved.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2012-11-15 12:49:50 and read 2948 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 28):
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 26):
signed up for this.

Signed up? It's a job, life sucks sometimes. Times are changing so if working Thanksgiving is so unacceptable, there's the front door. Thanksgiving day is not some God given right.

First world problems

(that all being said, you'll never find me out on Black Friday. I think it's ridiculous honestly)


Come on man, please read my posts. I'm specifically targeting the argument that retail workers should have known when they applied for the jobs. Yes, that's true to an extent especially for Black Friday, but with regard to starting at dinner time on Thanksgiving, that is very new to these retail stores and not something that was once expected or accepted.

Look, like I said. I work at a job where working holidays is normal. I have put my time in. I'm fortunate enough now that I don't have to work Thanksgiving and Christmas unless I choose to (which I have for Thanksgiving morning this year).

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-15 13:11:46 and read 2959 times.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 30):

I still have friends that still wok at Target. Just text messages two of them (one is a supervisor for overnight flow) and the responses I got was more along the lines of "What's that? We never got that."

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 30):
Believe what you want.

   I'm believing the people that I worked with that are still there. I think you're just a bit too hopeful that you will receive such pay that doesn't exist. But that's for another thread.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: kngkyle
Posted 2012-11-15 13:24:16 and read 2950 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
I think you're just a bit too hopeful that you will receive such pay that doesn't exist. But that's for another thread.

I think I'm just repeating what the Logistics ETL at my store told everyone. Maybe she is wrong. I don't know why you would think I have some agenda to lie about it. As if me posting false information here would somehow make it a reality.

               

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: casinterest
Posted 2012-11-15 13:36:59 and read 2950 times.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 34):
I think I'm just repeating what the Logistics ETL at my store told everyone. Maybe she is wrong. I don't know why you would think I have some agenda to lie about it. As if me posting false information here would somehow make it a reality.
http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/io...=11034096#page:showThread,11034096

According to this article target is offering holiday pay. So maybe some folks will get a bit extra. However I doubt those working after 7 or 8 am on Friday will get it.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: D L X
Posted 2012-11-15 13:41:48 and read 2950 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
If hoards of people want to slam the stores at 2AM on a Friday morning

That's the thing. Hoards of people do not want to slam the doors at 2am om Friday morning. Rather, hoards of people want to be first in line for a gigantic sale so they don't get there and find that the things they wanted are all gone.

If no one opened their stores until 2pm on Friday, those Hoards would be just as happy (actually happier) than if the stores opened 2pm on Thursday.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-15 13:49:08 and read 2945 times.

Quoting D L X (Reply 36):
If no one opened their stores until 2pm on Friday, those Hoards would be just as happy (actually happier) than if the stores opened 2pm on Thursday.

Of course if there's a store that opens earlier, they'd go there instead. It's a valid point: 2 AM sucks for shopping, but there's a point of diminishing returns to opening at a later but more convenient time.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):
Yes, that's true to an extent especially for Black Friday, but with regard to starting at dinner time on Thanksgiving, that is very new to these retail stores and not something that was once expected or accepted.

Things change. And those people working at such stores are quite replaceable, even if not on an immediate basis.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-15 13:50:14 and read 2947 times.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 35):

If that's true, then it must be a brand new thing that Target is doing this year. But still, my friends that are still working there have no clue about any holiday pay.

I'll forward this article you found to them. Thanks, Casinterest.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-15 13:56:08 and read 2963 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 5):
True, it's part of the deal but it seems each year these cattle car retailers seem to take advantage of their worker bees.

My sister's boyfriend works at WalMart, and a high school classmate just quit his job at Target.

I can assure you they take advantage of them almost every single day (especially at WalMart).

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
This is not the Securities and Exchange Commission. Past history is an acceptable prediction of future behavior. I wouldn't blame the employees one bit for walking out over having to work Thanksgiving dinner because it isn't, and has never been, the company's normal conduct, just as I would condemn someone making the same complaint of any employer that does have a history of running 24/7/365.

That's a nice piece of interesting.... crap. Since when do people have the right to walk off the job on a holiday because of "past history"? And since when does "past history" overrule a "contract" (since the vast majority of those stores are in right-to-work areas)?

Sounds like a load of bullcrap from the entitlement crowd. I suppose you think they should get paid for walking out as well?

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):

I only hope that if the walkouts do go ahead, enough employees join so as to make reprisal impossible.

  

Name one company, whose employees staged a mass walkout on a holiday.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
I still have friends that still wok at Target. Just text messages two of them (one is a supervisor for overnight flow) and the responses I got was more along the lines of "What's that? We never got that."

Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

[Edited 2012-11-15 13:57:28]

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: lewis
Posted 2012-11-15 14:08:46 and read 2947 times.

Well, yeah it sucks being away from family but it is not the end of the world! They work in retail and the trend for the past couple of years has been for such retail stores to open earlier each year, since Black Friday is such a big thing.

For my current job, I have no specific clause that says that I may have to work weekends or holidays but it does say that my working hours are dependent on the time required to complete my tasks and meet my deadlines. I have worked many holidays in the US, I have worked 4th of July and some of my colleagues working on a specific project will be working on Thanksgiving, out of town! They are not the only people that will be working Thanksgiving day and they are quite replaceable!

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-15 14:08:48 and read 2950 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

That never received such pay when I worked there. But see reply 37 & 38.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-15 14:27:58 and read 2960 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 41):

That never received such pay when I worked there. But see reply 37 & 38.

Sounded like you were trying to call someone a liar... but glad to see you come to your senses.

Quoting lewis (Reply 40):
They are not the only people that will be working Thanksgiving day and they are quite replaceable!

  

Just because a store won't be able to replace someone the next day, doesn't mean they're immune from being replaced. Pull out all the applications, call them in, train them, and then once you have the staffing fire everyone who walked out.

BTW, in some states, walking off the job like that constitutes "job abandonment", even if you try to come back the next day... which makes those people ineligible for unemployment benefits.

Still think it's worth it to get a night off?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-15 14:40:00 and read 2952 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42):
glad to see you come to your senses.

   Huh?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: fridgmus
Posted 2012-11-15 15:29:09 and read 2947 times.

I use Target's pharmacy, but other than that, I don't go there and NEVER to WalMart.

I do ALL of my Christmas shopping online, throughout the year, what little of it there is! And almost all of my regular shopping is done online as well. I just hate crowds and I never travel on holidays. Of course it helps if you're single with no family!!!

As for the employees of Target and WalMart, well, I support you, but you did know what you were getting yourselves into when you signed on with these companies. Like my Mom used to say, "Retail sucks!"

f

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-15 23:19:34 and read 2943 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 31):
This is something to be taken to the politicians who have the authority to pass the laws to ensure that there is a level playing field. I am certain that there are a number of retailers who are hoping that these employees do walk off the job and make Target and Wal-Mart sales tank because theirs will be improved.

How's this ? "politicians who have the authority to pass the laws to ensure that there is a level playing field."

Wow! that kinda sounds like communism to me ! Are you seriously suggesting that politicians should "make laws" which prohibit retailers from opening for business whenever they think the demand is there for what they sell ?

So many people "feel sorry" for those who work in retail, and are required to work on holidays, night shifts, etc.?
There's an old axiom which states.........."people who work at un-skilled jobs tend to get paid in direct proportion to the difficulty of replacing them"

So.....how hard will it be for, say, Wal Mart to "replace" those dozen workers who chose to "stage a walkout"? My guess would be, a single "NOW HIRING" sign on the front of the building, and in about one day, they would have sufficient applications to last them for the next six months or so.

Understand, I'm NOT belittling the people who work at Wal Mart, (or any other retailer, fast food place, restaurant, or whatever) what I AM pointing out is.......while you are still young, (the younger the better), take a hard, cold look at how people in different "occupations" live, the advantages and disadvantages associated with different occupations, than make a PLAN ! PLAN how you can PREPARE yourself to have a "skill" which will not be SO EASY to replace, (rather than following the "herd" in front of you, and ending up in a slaughterhouse).


There are relatively few "dream" jobs "around"; ( yes, I'm well aware of how much money NBA players, NFL players, MLB players, and so-called "movie stars" make); I'm also equally aware of how difficult it is to get each and everyone of those "jobs" ! ( and what a MESS many of them make out of their lives ! )

I could sit here and list a hundred people who are now independently wealthy, simply because they "prepared" themselves when they were a bit younger, rather than "following the herd"........( having to work in a "big box store", obliged to work on Thanksgiving, etc. etc. etc.)

Hers's just one example of what I'm talking about; this young boy was born in Chile (around 50 yrs ago) his father was a violist with a symphony orchestra; while he was still quite young, his father started teaching him the viola; later, his father became a "world-class" violist, ended up playing with some of the world's greatest musicians; all of this time, young Roberto kept studying, kept learning; during this time, there was a great English violist, named William Primrose. William Primrose is to this day, regarded by many as being the greatest violist of the 20th century; and young Roberto's father had studied under the great William Primrose, then "passed on" his knowledge to his son, Roberto.

Now.....anyone who is "into" classical music is aware that all string players, ( violinists, violists, cellists, and bassists ALL seek to obtain better and better instruments; during William Primroses's long career, his principal performing instrument was a viola made in the late 1700's by Andrea Amati, ( the first but not the most famous of the great Amati violin makers)

Anyway, after William Primrose "passed on", he left this rare old instrument to a friend, and over a course of years, it was eventually purchased by the Philadelphia Orchestra, (one of the world's great orchestras) Finally, after some number of years, Roberto graduated from Julliard, and joined the Philadelphia Orchestra, and after just a few years, rose to become the Principal Violist with that great orchestra; during his time with the P.O., Roberto negotiated to "lease" the Amati viola of the late William Primrose. After a few more years, Roberto was honored to be chosen as the new Director of the prestigious Curtiss School of Music in Philadelphia. I have no idea what such a position pays it's director, but it must be "quite substantial", because Roberto was able to finally purchase the Amati from the Philadelphia Orchestra.

Now.........I have been greatly interested in violins and violinists all of my life; (or at least since I was in the 1st grade) I already knew quite a bit about the great violin makers of Cremona; but something happened that caused me to do a LOT more "studying";

My "soon to be" step-son met a young lady in a park, and after a year, they were married; my "soon-to-be" step daughter-in-law is a very highly paid teacher and governess; at one one point, she took one of her "charges" for a tennis lesson at a posh indoor tennis club; while there, she happened to meet a very nice man, they became acquainted, and he ended up hiring her to teach HIS children; we were hearing in her emails, "my new "employer" is a musician'; (and that she was now taking HIS child for tennis lessons in his new Bently ! Then, one day he gave her a CD that he and another musician had made; as she is quite uninterested in classical music, she sent ME the CD. While reading about it, I noticed the name "William Primrose", who I was very familiar with, as he used to perform in a trio with my "hero", Isaac Stern. Shortly after, I found that my soon-to-be step son's wife was now working for the great Roberto Diaz, (one of the world's most acclaimed violists), and he was playing the Amati viola on the CD she had sent me; I quickly rushed it back to her, had her get Roberto to autograph it for me, and it is now one of my most "prized possessions" ! Incidentally, while I was in Chicago, I stopped in a famous violin shop, was chatting with the owner, and mentioned Roberto's Amati, and inquired as to it's "worth"; his answer was........most likely in the vicinity of "four" (like in million)


So..........that's just one great example of just what "preparing one's self" can do for your future life style.

But I'm sure, for every great musician capable of owning a rare old multi-million dollar instrument, there are BOUND to be thousands of "average people", FORCED to work at Wal Mart, and FORCED to work on Thanksgiving !

Charley

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: mad99
Posted 2012-11-16 00:04:06 and read 2936 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 17):
do not allow stores to be open on Sundays, major holidays like Thanksgiving as well as not before 7 AM or after 11 PM

Here in Madrid shops are now opening Sundays..
It started with one Sunday a month and now its every Sunday, not good if you ask me.

Why would anyone queue to get into a shop on a holiday at 7 am? Insane

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-16 01:06:58 and read 2940 times.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 46):
Why would anyone queue to get into a shop on a holiday at 7 am? Insane

It's called, FREEDOM; ( to do WHAT you want to do, WHEN you want to do it ! )

(and it's kinda like "different strokes for different folks")

Why must ANYONE measure the world, using themselves as the yardstick ?

Charley


P.S. For anyone not familiar with "yardsticks"........they're kinda like "metersticks" only slightly shorter........

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: mad99
Posted 2012-11-16 02:45:07 and read 2937 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 47):
It's called, FREEDOM

Ya we've got that here as well but on the 7th, first day of discounts.

People queue to get super discounts on needless junk!

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-11-16 04:36:48 and read 2937 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 45):
How's this ? "politicians who have the authority to pass the laws to ensure that there is a level playing field."

By passing laws to ensure that all retailers open at the same time, come on, read the entire post.
These employees are pushing for a Holiday feature by penalizing their employer, if Wal-Mart and Target are forced to not open how does that affect Sears, Macy's, JC Penny, Radio Shack, etc etc etc. it creates an uneven playing field.
If the employees want the public holiday shopping hours restricted it needs to be addressed by the politicians who are the only ones who controls the hours.
The employers have voluntarilly made the decision to extend their hours, it is in the employee contract of employment, if you choose not to work those hours you can chooes to work elsewhere and some employers actually have an opt out others a annual rotation where you do not have to work two years in a row.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: KaiGywer
Posted 2012-11-16 05:29:21 and read 2936 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 45):
So.....how hard will it be for, say, Wal Mart to "replace" those dozen workers who chose to "stage a walkout"? My guess would be, a single "NOW HIRING" sign on the front of the building, and in about one day, they would have sufficient applications to last them for the next six months or so.

Maybe in some parts of the country. All of our major retailers have had "Now hiring" signs up constantly for as long as I've lived here (2009). Hell, McDonalds has a big sign outside offering a $500 signing bonus..

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: falstaff
Posted 2012-11-16 06:53:01 and read 2943 times.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 27):
I don't personally go shopping or anything on or near Black Friday

A couple of years ago I went to the Wal-Mart in Kirkwood, Missouri on Black Friday, in the afternoon. It was great, the store was less crowded than an average weekday. I have found that to be the case at some other stores too. All the crazy shoppers come bright and early while the normal shoppers come in the afternoon and shop normaly. The only item I find gone are the crazy sale items, but the normal items are all still in stock.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 28):
Signed up? It's a job

If you choose to work retail in this day and age you have signed up for just about anything. It isn't a secret that Black Friday hours keep expanding so if it comes as a suprise you have not been paying attention.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Name one company, whose employees staged a mass walkout on a holiday.

I would be upset if some of my fellow employees walked out leaving me holding the bag. If a walk out occured some people will stay behind; they need the job/money, don't agree with the walkout, or could care less about Thanksgiving (I for one don't make too big of a deal about it. I have a VERY small family that I see all the time). Back in 1992 I was working a McDonald's, in Eureka, Missouri, and after a concert the store stayed open 2 hours after our normal closing time. It was crazy with the number of people pouring in and the dinning room was a wreck. Three people got mad and walked out leaving the rest of us to do more work. I wasn't about to walk out becuase I wasn't going to leave my friends and co-workers to do more work.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 51):
Hell, McDonalds has a big sign outside offering a $500 signing bonus..

The McD's I worked at 20 years ago had the same now hiring sign up for at least 10 years. It eventually faded and they put up another.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: StarAC17
Posted 2012-11-16 09:20:57 and read 2934 times.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 46):
Here in Madrid shops are now opening Sundays..
It started with one Sunday a month and now its every Sunday, not good if you ask me.

From a business prospective it makes sense that a retail store is open on the weekends because most of your clientele is working 9-5 Monday to Friday and will come after their shift or on the weekend.

When living down under I didn't understand why retailers close at 6 on weeknights (some do it on Thursday and Friday). Their only justification for this is to avoid paying a 25% night and weekend bonus to employees but I would think the added business would more than make up for that.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 46):
hy would anyone queue to get into a shop on a holiday at 7 am? Insane

  

I'm not a morning person at all and will only get up that early if I have to for work or other things I value more than sleeping.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2012-11-16 09:24:34 and read 2934 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Since when do people have the right to walk off the job on a holiday because of "past history"?

Last I checked, people have the right to walk off their job anytime for any reason, even the stupidest one. Past history doesn't give them the right to, the end of slavery did, but perhaps you were too busy to look up and didn't notice.

What past history does is give them a moral, perhaps (unlikely as that may be) even a legal ground to contest the opening of stores on Thanksgiving. If you think the only thing that matters is the written word, you're sorely mistaken.

Employers have the right to impose whatever working conditions they see fit within the constraints of the law (and their union agreement, if applicable). You're free to believe employees only have a choice between grabbing their ankles and take it or walking away, but in the real world, they have the right to try and oppose some of the decisions made by their employers, again within the constraints of the law.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Name one company

Raley's

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Sounds like a load of bullcrap from the entitlement crowd. I suppose you think they should get paid for walking out as well?

Jesus. Settle down, will you. Who peed in your cereals?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: vikkyvik
Posted 2012-11-16 10:36:28 and read 2934 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 54):
Last I checked, people have the right to walk off their job anytime for any reason, even the stupidest one.

You're right. And their employer has the right to fire them. Or possibly prosecute them, in certain situations.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 54):
You're free to believe employees only have a choice between grabbing their ankles and take it or walking away, but in the real world, they have the right to try and oppose some of the decisions made by their employers, again within the constraints of the law.

But opposing decisions by walking out IS walking away. If you walk out and say "I quit" or if you walk out without saying it, your action might be treated the same by your employer.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 54):
What past history does is give them a moral, perhaps (unlikely as that may be) even a legal ground to contest the opening of stores on Thanksgiving.

I could use the same reasoning to say I shouldn't have to work Sundays. Things change in the workplace environment constantly. How much change can I contest by citing past history?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-16 12:20:40 and read 2930 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 50):
If the employees want the public holiday shopping hours restricted it needs to be addressed by the politicians who are the only ones who controls the hours.

So, you're willing to allow government to further encroach on business? Sorry, government does not need to tell any business what they're hours should be. Government has done enough of that with the old Blue Laws. Heck, in this area, I still can't buy alcohol on Sunday mornings...or election day.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 51):
All of our major retailers have had "Now hiring" signs up constantly for as long as I've lived here (2009).

That's nothing new. These positions are high turnover and even in the worst of economies, the employers are looking for people to fill the jobs, year round.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 54):
You're free to believe employees only have a choice between grabbing their ankles and take it or walking away, but in the real world, they have the right to try and oppose some of the decisions made by their employers, again within the constraints of the law.

You're absolutely correct. Most large retailers (and other employers) have some sort of grievance procedure. But, I doubt walking out is part of that process. If the employees walk out, whether individually or en-masse, the employer will be within his rights to terminate the employee's employment.

Bottomline is: if the consumer wants the doors open on Thanksgiving, the retailer will open the doors. The employees need to deal with that.

And government should not get involved.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: starbuk7
Posted 2012-11-16 12:31:00 and read 2931 times.

Funny reading a lot of the replies here. I used to work at a Wal-Mart after I retired from the Navy because I needed a second job to make ends meet till I found the job that I have now that pays what I need. I worked the odd hours they wanted me to work so I could take care of my family.

I learned from my 20 years in the navy (working whatever hours and days the Navy had us working) that it does not matter. The work ethic I learned from my parents growing up is that you do whatever it take to take care of the family.

Sure, the working hours in retail suck. Should that not be an incentive to go to school to get a better job. Obviously not to some of the kids today. They feel that they are "entitled" to get everything they need. Sorry, that is not the way it works. It took time and a lot of hard work to get where I am today and never asked for handouts to get here.

Today's "entitlement" society is very misguided.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-11-16 13:06:54 and read 2929 times.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 51):
Maybe in some parts of the country. All of our major retailers have had "Now hiring" signs up constantly for as long as I've lived here (2009). Hell, McDonalds has a big sign outside offering a $500 signing bonus..

No surprise there; fast food is not thought of as being a "great career" by many people, yet a very "few" people have parlayed it into making a fortune; it all depends on the individual.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 56):
Bottomline is: if the consumer wants the doors open on Thanksgiving, the retailer will open the doors. The employees need to deal with that.

And government should not get involved.

My sentiments exactly !!! (on BOTH counts!)

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 57):
Sure, the working hours in retail suck. Should that not be an incentive to go to school to get a better job. Obviously not to some of the kids today. They feel that they are "entitled" to get everything they need. Sorry, that is not the way it works. It took time and a lot of hard work to get where I am today and never asked for handouts to get here.

Today's "entitlement" society is very misguided.

That's exactly what I was trying to get across in my post; if you're not willing to stay at the bottom of the "economic heap", get yourself a better education, find yourself a ladder, and climb to the TOP of the "heap" !

( of course, if you try to climb TOO HIGH, or TOO FAST, there is always the risk of becoming a victim of the dreaded "Peter Principle" !) ( which we probably better take up on another thread )

Charley

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-16 13:32:44 and read 2926 times.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 55):
Or possibly prosecute them, in certain situations.

Could you elaborate on this a little bit more?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-16 13:45:50 and read 2928 times.

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 57):
I learned from my 20 years in the navy (working whatever hours and days the Navy had us working)

LOL I feel you there...

What I don't get it they are simply missing a holiday... I'm sorry? Based off the outrage seen, it seems that the companies are forcing them to work 48 hours straight or something. Working a holiday is not the end of the world

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2012-11-16 14:39:32 and read 2927 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 60):
Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 57):
I learned from my 20 years in the navy (working whatever hours and days the Navy had us working)

LOL I feel you there...

What I don't get it they are simply missing a holiday... I'm sorry? Based off the outrage seen, it seems that the companies are forcing them to work 48 hours straight or something. Working a holiday is not the end of the world

Working a twelve hour shift starting at 10pm during a holiday traditionally spent enjoying dinner with one's family does suck. It really messes with everyone's plans. My two brothers work at Best Buy and are facing a good possibility of having to start at 10pm which complicates things for the rest of us who want to do something together for dinner. They have both been at Best Buy for over two years and this is a first for them. It sucks. It is what it is, it's life...tough luck. But it's far from ideal.

They would rather work Thanksgiving morning and get off in the afternoon than to start at 10pm and I don't blame them for being annoyed about it.

I've been there, I dealt with it. But it still sucks and I think it bothered my family who didn't get to spend the holiday with me more than it bothered me.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: vikkyvik
Posted 2012-11-16 15:58:21 and read 2924 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 59):
Could you elaborate on this a little bit more?

Well, the one that came to mind was the military.

Other than that, I was thinking any job where safety could be compromised by an employee leaving his/her station. But then again, the employer might be criminally liable for that.

Or perhaps any job where leaving your station renders product damaged or unusable. In that case, I'm not sure what the employer could potentially do to the employee, beyond firing him/her.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-16 17:17:24 and read 2928 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 61):
I've been there, I dealt with it. But it still sucks and I think it bothered my family who didn't get to spend the holiday with me more than it bothered me.


After my brother got downsized in 2009 (and, quite coincidentally, after his unemployment insurance ran out) he got a job in retail as the assistant to the assistant manager of brake parts procurement (or some silly title like that) at Autozone. He was absolutely floored by the fact that he had to work on weekends and most holidays. Even though he knew I always worked them and even though he happens to shop on weekends and off hours, he thought that only emergency type people worked weekends and holidays.

I welcomed him to the real world with a phone call, from the beach, on July 4th, while he was working and I was vacationing.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: CONTACREW
Posted 2012-11-16 17:25:07 and read 2929 times.

I used to work at Target, and I was more then happy to work the holidays, black friday etc. Meant double time for me.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-11-16 18:11:46 and read 2927 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 56):
So, you're willing to allow government to further encroach on business?

Not at all, my point is that if the workers want to not work on Thanksgiving which most likely violates their employment contract their beef is with the politicians who control the working / business hours of the land and not with their employer.
Go picket in front of the elected officials, do write in campaigns, start a poll, stop contributions, become a political activist to make your political point, holding your employer hostage for obeying and working within the laws of the country is not the way to go, you can be sure that if Wal-Mart or Target was doing anything illegal the lawyes would have already filed suit.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-11-16 18:27:34 and read 2930 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 65):
Not at all, my point is that if the workers want to not work on Thanksgiving which most likely violates their employment contract their beef is with the politicians who control the working / business hours of the land and not with their employer.


Chances are that being told you have to work on Thanksgiving or any other day of the year, is not a violation of an employment contract, especially in retail.

And, in the US, except in the cases of Blue Laws (which I think should be roundly struck down), the politicians do not control the days and hours that a business can operate. The market should, and for the most part (Chik-fil-A being a notable exception), dictates the the hours a retailer operates.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-16 19:20:32 and read 2923 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 65):
Not at all, my point is that if the workers want to not work on Thanksgiving which most likely violates their employment contract

Seriously? Do you honestly think making employees work a holiday violates a "employment contract?"

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: vikkyvik
Posted 2012-11-16 19:28:16 and read 2924 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 67):
Seriously? Do you honestly think making employees work a holiday violates a "employment contract?"
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 66):
Chances are that being told you have to work on Thanksgiving or any other day of the year, is not a violation of an employment contract, especially in retail.

Not sure about this, but if you read the rest of his statement:

Quoting par13del (Reply 65):
their beef is with the politicians who control the working / business hours of the land and not with their employer.

...I think he was saying that not working on Thanksgiving would be a violation of their employment contract.

Confusingly worded, but that's what I understood.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-11-16 19:35:03 and read 2927 times.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 68):

Hm, I guess that makes sense. Not in the best state of mind at the present moment...  

BUT whatever the outcome, and minus illegal activity, I absolutely agree the government should stay out. The employees will get 0 sympathy from me, but if they are able to work out a bargain with their companies without using the government to force anything that is unconstitutional IMO, great. They can work 10 hours a week with $400/hr pay for all I care. Just keep the overreaching government out of this

[Edited 2012-11-16 19:35:46]

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-16 19:36:30 and read 2928 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
The world is getting flatter and, quite simply holidays don't mean much anymore, at least when it comes to time off, for those in the service industries, retail included.

But, your predator class opps I meant lawyers and paper pushers especially governement, insurance and law embrace and take all those holidays. For many of them it's their birthright. Let those lowly airline, hotel, restaurant and especially order taker retail folk slave and toil we got our holiday off!

Quoting pellegrine (Reply 15):
Let these people rest on a de-facto national day off. The government is closed...


[quote=fr8mech,reply=16]Let these people rest on a de-facto national day off. The government is closed... The government is closed when it's open!   Sorry couldn't resist that one.

I never go shopping on "black friday". I don't even want to...or care about the sales LOL. To me the retail industry is one of the most disrespectful industries towards their workers. I would walk out too.

I can vouch for that you can also throw in the hotel industry. Thats the stuff of another thread.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
Quoting falstaff (Reply 22):
Everyone is all worked up about the "poor retail employees" having to work on a Holiday. I don't hear people complaining about the Police, fireman, airline employees, railroad workers, restaurant staff, TV and radio workers and countless of other jobs that work every holiday. Some jobs require work during nights, weekends, and Holidays. If you don't like the job get a different job; I did.

See my coment in the next paragraph regarding essential industries such as police, fire, medical, airline etc.

I'm glad you like many of my "zippyrants." I'll be more specific when I refer to "Government Workers." I'm referring to the rank and file "paper pusher/office drones," not the essentials like military, police, fire and rescue, FAA even TSA. The "rank and file" get off with multitudes of paid (on our dime/taxes) to be off on many holidays; therefore, these barbaric stupid marathon so called sales were created with them in mind. During all the "Snomageddon" events of 2009/2010 the rank and file government workers got carte blance off time and paid. Most non-government workers did not.
And as I said before, as an airline employee I know working major holidays is part of the deal. I've worked in many "24/7" industries including hotel, and radio broadcasting as well as our industry. At least with these and obviously police, fire/rescue/medical these are all essential. I feel part of the downfall of our society has been over stimulus. Too much outside stuff where people are distracted and spend less and less precious time with their families/loved ones. I think we could all live without big box stores having these extended gimmick sales/hours.

Quoting j.mo (Reply 24):
I usually agree with your rants Zippy, just not sure who you are referring to here. Police, fire, military and ATC are all Govt jobs. I have worked many Thanksgivings as a controller and in the Navy. No whining here

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: falstaff
Posted 2012-11-16 21:08:12 and read 2931 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 55):
Government has done enough of that with the old Blue Laws

It wasn't that long ago you couldn't buy beer in Missouri on a Sunday. I remember having to chain off the beer aisle of the grocery store I worked in on a Sunday. Before my working life you could buy a food item on a Sunday, but couldn't buy anything else in the grocery store. Example; you could buy bread, but you couldn't buy light bulbs. My parents grew up in Pennsylvania dad said back in the 1950s a baseball game couldn't go beyond a certain time, on a Sunday. My dad said he was at a couple of extra inning games that were called and picked up at a later date.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 59):
Working a holiday is not the end of the world

Back when I worked for Ford I would have loved to have worked on Thanksgiving, My family was 500 plus miles away and I wasn't going to travel for only one day off so I sat around doing nothing all day. I would liked to have gone to work and got paid. I am sure I wasn't the only one.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 65):
The market should, and for the most part (Chik-fil-A being a notable exception), dictates the the hours a retailer operates

There are plenty of others, but most are very regional. Here in Detroit you won't find a car dealership open on a Sunday. I know it was illegal (and may still be, unless the law changed in the last year or so) to sell a car, in Michigan, on a Sunday, even if you are a private seller. I have bought and sold cars on a Sunday, but have back dated the title to the day before.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-16 21:17:44 and read 2935 times.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 70):
There are plenty of others, but most are very regional. Here in Detroit you won't find a car dealership open on a Sunday. I know it was illegal (and may still be, unless the law changed in the last year or so) to sell a car, in Michigan, on a Sunday, even if you are a private seller. I have bought and sold cars on a Sunday, but have back dated the title to the day before.

Your little secret is safe with me!    Speacking of Blue Laws back in the day in Baltimore, Maryland football or baseball games couldn't start before 1400 hours!. I remember when we had the Baltimore Colts this was a crawl in ass of the major networks because everywhere else games started at 1300 hours.

But for God's sake can't we have just one day where family can be together. For those who don't have, can't get to or prefer not to break bread with loved ones or friends how about volunteer at a kid's hospital, homeless Turkey dinner (Bea Gaddy's famous Thanksgiving uber feast in Baltimore) Trust me, the big box stores will still be the same overheated sh*tty service cattlecars full of last year's loss leader crap made in that great nation of pollution, labor exploitation China! For you loons that get your rocks off stalking big box stores to get that reduced piece of crap from China, then why don't you kanoodle with your fellow crazies and hang outside these stores for their opening say at 0700 on Black Friday morning. There, you can all bond, and fart from your Thanksgiving repasts, then storm through the doors and trample those folk who have to work at such places or otherwise be jobless.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Super80DFW
Posted 2012-11-16 21:56:42 and read 2939 times.

My sister works for Old Navy, and she'll be off on the holiday but will be up early to work on Black Friday.

I work for an airline, I'm the youngest agent at our station, however on the flip-side I'm also one of the most senior. I had 2 weeks of vacation to use this year, and I was able to hold 1 week at Thanksgiving off, and 1 week at Christmas off.

Does anybody know if the retail giants do scheduling by seniority or anything like that?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-17 02:28:04 and read 2934 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 53):

Raley's

Try again.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Name one company, whose employees staged a mass walkout on a holiday.
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 53):
Last I checked, people have the right to walk off their job anytime for any reason, even the stupidest one. Past history doesn't give them the right to, the end of slavery did, but perhaps you were too busy to look up and didn't notice.

And last I checked, the company has the right to refuse them back. Like I said, in non-union jobs in most states, that is considered job abandonment... so you technically have quit.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 53):
What past history does is give them a moral, perhaps (unlikely as that may be) even a legal ground to contest the opening of stores on Thanksgiving. If you think the only thing that matters is the written word, you're sorely mistaken.

If you can name one case where "past history" of working hours/days was found to be cause for industrial action or legal action even though it was stated on paper from the get-go that hours may be irregular, you can call me mistaken.

Until then, I'll continue to believe you're making stuff up.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-11-17 03:28:45 and read 2935 times.

'Black Friday' really developed in the 1980's as almost all schools were closed and many private employers had few if any regular employees who wanted to work the day after Thanksgiving and realized it was very inefficient to be open anyway on that Friday. Many private employers shifted the Veteran's Day holiday to give the day after Thanksgiving off. Thanksgiving has long been the beginning of the Christmas shopping season and more and more retailers realizing many customers were off that day. Black Friday isn't in conflict with the weekly holy days of the Jewish faith on Saturday or Christians on Sunday and looking for any way to get more shoppers into their stores started pushing more door-buster sales and opening up earlier and earlier.

The best thing most can do if they don't like the creep of shopping on Thanksgiving or very early hours of 'Black Friday' is just not shop on those days and times.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: RedTailDTW
Posted 2012-11-20 14:55:36 and read 2919 times.

I work for Target as a GSA (Guest Service Attendant) and while I know Black Friday is huge for retail, 12 Midnight should have been the cut off point. But as stated earlier, the store that people visit first is the store they will most likely spend more of their money at. Also, as stated previously, Target provided a sheet for Team Members to request what shifts they preferred to have on Friday and everyone seemed pretty content with that. Team Members who open black Friday will also get paid a good deal more than they normally would. So if it was important enough, the Team Members who would like to stay home with family can close on Friday versus open on Thursday night.

Since our store has two entrances, we usually route people in one entrance, have a guided path through the store (like a racetrack), organize them into certain check lanes to make it speedier, and have them exit the other entrance. So the store is set up almost like a horse shoe. It was very efficient and we got people in and out with no problem.

As far as Walmart goes, I think their employees have a valid complaint but I will leave it at that. In my 4 years at Target I like to think that I have been treated well most of the time. Our store has PB&J sandwiches provided in the breakroom everyday for Team Members who aren't able to buy lunch or who just want a snack. We also get a big cake every month to celebrate upcoming anniversaries and birthdays. We also have random days throughout the month where we are provided drinks, snacks, and other food items. Our breakroom has DirecTV and a Blu-ray player to watch movies. If Team Members take an extra shift or get a few REDcard apps that day, we usually requisition Starbucks or a Café Meal as a thank you.

Overall, I think that is more than Walmart can say they give their employees and I think Target does fairly good job.

- Mason

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Cadet985
Posted 2012-11-20 18:47:25 and read 2883 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 74):

'Black Friday' really developed in the 1980's as almost all schools were closed and many private employers had few if any regular employees who wanted to work the day after Thanksgiving and realized it was very inefficient to be open anyway on that Friday. Many private employers shifted the Veteran's Day holiday to give the day after Thanksgiving off. Thanksgiving has long been the beginning of the Christmas shopping season and more and more retailers realizing many customers were off that day. Black Friday isn't in conflict with the weekly holy days of the Jewish faith on Saturday or Christians on Sunday and looking for any way to get more shoppers into their stores started pushing more door-buster sales and opening up earlier and earlier.

Actually, that's not true at all. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_F...iday_(shopping)#Origin_of_the_term

Marc

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-11-20 18:48:09 and read 2899 times.

Perhaps the most reasonable of all the big national chain retailers is JC Penney. They will not be open at all on Thanksgiving and not open until 6 AM local time Friday. In previous years they opened as early as 4 AM, unless local laws wouldn't allow it. Apparently JCP is keeping to their simple pricing policy, no coupons, no % discounts before certain day times, a few 'doorbusters'. Guess they figure the costs to be open so early and keeping labor peace overruled the idea of earlier openings. As much as the management of JCP is bashed for the so-far failure of their new marketing and pricing polices, maybe some common sense got through and attract some customers.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: trav110
Posted 2012-11-21 02:25:22 and read 2828 times.

I realize this post is a little late in the game, however having worked at Walmart for 2 years while I was in college - starting on the remodel crew and ending up an accountant - I support the walk-out 100%. Walmart treats and pays their employees like crap, and many of the people I worked with had no other viable employment opportunities available. Their profit margin is absolutely ridiculous, and seeing the numbers day in and day out there is no reason they should not pay their workers a fairer wage. Shopping at Walmart brings out the worst in people, and I have seen employees being treated (and been treated myself) like s*** because some fat monster is irate about walking a few aisles over to buy soap. These people are human beings doing an honest day's work and they deserve to make a living like the rest of us.

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:47:31]

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: melpax
Posted 2012-11-21 03:47:23 and read 2818 times.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 52):
When living down under I didn't understand why retailers close at 6 on weeknights (some do it on Thursday and Friday). Their only justification for this is to avoid paying a 25% night and weekend bonus to employees but I would think the added business would more than make up for that.

It's starting to change, most supermarkets & K-marts are open here until at least 10PM or a little later. There is a 24-hour K-mart near me that can be packed at 1AM in the morning. In Melbourne, the malls will close at 6 Monday to Wednesday, 9 on Thursday-Friday and then usually 5 on the weekends. Most stores are closed on Christmas Day, Good Friday & before 1PM on Anzac day, normally only petrol stations & small shops with less than 20 staff can only open during those times, but trading hours are unrestricted otherwise. Sunday trading for most stores was only leagalised here back in the 90's.

I was a retail manager in a former life, and you knew that working weekends & public holidays was part of the job. As managers, we were all on a salary so no overtime pay or penalty rates for working holidays. Plus it was company policy that no leave was to be approved during December or Easter. There were times when we had hourly staff make more than managers some weeks because of penalty rates. The big retailers are pushing to abolish penalty rates....

http://www.theage.com.au/small-busin...cut-sunday-pay-20121120-29n0m.html

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: dtw9
Posted 2012-11-21 05:22:24 and read 2800 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Name one company, whose employees staged a mass walkout on a holiday
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 53):
Raley's
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 73):
Try again.

I'll help you out Blueflyer

http://labornotes.org/node/525

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-21 19:55:45 and read 2701 times.

Quoting trav110 (Reply 78):
Shopping at Walmart brings out the worst in people, and I have seen employees being treated (and been treated myself) like s*** because some fat monster is irate about walking a few aisles over to buy soap. These people are human beings doing an honest day's work and they deserve to make a living like the rest of us.

At least that hippo was looking for soap. Hope does spring eternal!   
This topic regarding the retail big box hell is gaining traction and has been bandied about on various talk radio programs. For example, "Overnight America" discussed this for several hours. Believe it or not most felt the big retail stores are in the wrong and it's tacky. Some even feel this is an outcome of our society going downhill.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-25 19:31:14 and read 2390 times.

So, how many....if any....workers got the termination notices?

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: Darksnowynight
Posted 2012-11-25 19:49:30 and read 2378 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 81):
At least that hippo was looking for soap. Hope does spring eternal!   

Ha Ha Ha!  . And I want you to hear that in Calvert DeForest voice. Good one.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 81):
Believe it or not most felt the big retail stores are in the wrong and it's tacky. Some even feel this is an outcome of our society going downhill.

I think that sums it up nicely. There isn't much we do about this embarrassing trend other than not to participate. So, I didn't this year, and won't in the future. The way we treat service people in this country is appalling more often than not. I'd like to think that's because a good deal of us simply have no clue what it's like to work those gigs.

Topic: RE: Wal Mart/Target Employee Walkout
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-11-26 04:29:14 and read 2310 times.

One story I read said that the number of employees not at work during the Thanksgiving Day/Black Friday period at Walmart was close to expected numbers so probably the numbers out in protest was minimal although one 'associate' may have been arrested at the store for their protest. Some protests led by local union and pro--union groups did attempt to take place near a few Walmart store and warehouse enterances, but they were often chased off to public spaces near the parking lot enterances. Overall, the protests seemed to be a dud but for some attention on some news programs as part of them showing the unruly mobs at door opening times.


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