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Topic: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: gsoshutout55
Posted 2012-11-29 08:24:31 and read 1397 times.

Hey guys, this is a detailed thread, but I appreciate any advice and help given. I have been lurking for years, and trust many of the posters to give accurate responses and provide sound advice.
Background in cliff notes:

New CFI 11/1
CFI-I practical 12/5
Asked to interview after I got my CFI (11/1)
Went well, want to hire me, check back in december, not a good time
Don't think they're blowing smoke up my butt (detailed story, but I'm fairly certain about this, know the employees well, friends with a few CFIs there, flown there for years, involved in a commecial for them years ago)
Here's the email I sent after my initial interview:

Quote:
Mr. XX
Chief Flight Instructor
XX Flight Training
XXX
Greensboro, NC 27XXX

Dear Mr. XXX,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss the Flight Instructor position at XXX with me. After meeting with you and discussing what it takes to be a successful flight instructor, I am further convinced that my background and skills coincide well with your needs.

I really appreciate that you took so much time to acquaint me with the inner workings of the company and talk about things I may not have learned during my ground training. I feel I could learn a great deal from you and would certainly enjoy working with you and everyone else at XXX.

In addition to my qualifications and experience, I will bring excellent work habits and judgment to this position. With the countless demands on your time, I am sure that you require people who can be trusted to carry out their responsibilities with minimal supervision.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding your hiring decision. Again, thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

David Hall, CFI-A, AGI

and here was his responce:

Quote:

David, appreciate you coming by today in chatting with me regarding CFI opportunities with XXX. As we discussed, would like to bring you on the team but need to let some things settle here. Feel free anytime to give me a shout if you want to discuss this more.

This is a follow up email I'd like to send the Chief CFI today:

Quote:

Mr. XXX
Chief Flight Instructor
XXX Flight Training
XXX Road
Greensboro, NC 27XXX

Dear Mr. XXX,

I'd like to once again thank you for meeting with me and discussing XXX's flight instructing needs a few weeks ago.

I understand that the value and usefulness of a 300 hour CFI is not all that high, and as such, I have been working to improve my qualifications so that I may be viewed as an even greater asset to your team.

On 12/5 I have a CFI-I practical scheduled, and hope to complete my IGI as well by years's end.
I would like to propose to you coming on board XXX as a contract instructor. I have spoken with three current employees, and each agreed to send me students if they became too busy one day, or for a checkride prep to have a different set of eyes look things over.

Additionally, I have taken steps to recruit my own students, and have one that would like more information in regards to an intro flight, and one other who has expressed interest in training with me to earn a private pilot certificate in the very near future. As you know, I have created and launched a website to show prospective clients, and from this I have generated interest and positive feedback from the community.



I present to you the following benefits of hiring me as a contract CFI:

I provide my own students, not competing with current employees
I can increase the school's revenue by providing BFRs, instruction, and possibly IPCs in the near future
I am familiar with XXX's operation, personnel, and aircraft
I will provide my own business cards, and will not require a XXX issued uniform
I will bring increased flexibility and visibility to the XXX team
Thank you for your consideration.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding your decision,
Sincerely,

David Hall, CFI-A, AGI

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: ANITIX87
Posted 2012-11-29 08:44:00 and read 1383 times.

Your follow-up sort of sounds like, "But...but...I'm really good! See?!?!?" It doesn't seem necessary since the initial response explicitly stated they wanted to bring you onto the team.

Now, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying not to contact him. If the initial interview was more than 6 or 8 weeks ago, then a follow-up e-mail is worthwhile (and probably necessary). My advice would be to wait until after your 12/5 AFI-I so that you can boast about your success, not about an imminent appointment. Secondly, avoid re-listing the purpose of your e-mail and all of your qualifications. He knows who he works for, saw your qualifications in your resume, heard about them at the interview, etc. A simple e-mail as follows would work wonders, be professional, and let him know you're still interested:

Dear Mr. XXX,
Following up to your e-mail dated xx/xx/xxxx, I just wanted to check on the status of your hiring process. I am still very much interested in the CFI position we discussed last month and just wanted to update you on the status of my CFI-I. Effective 12/5, I am [whatever applies here, I'm not sure how CFI stuff works]. Please let me know if there is any additional information you need or whether you can update me on a timeline for a potential decision.
Thank you very much,
David Hall


TIS

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: Pu
Posted 2012-11-29 08:59:05 and read 1373 times.

Emails are inherently weak and unimpressive.

1000s (millions?) out there trying to get a job by clever emails. Or online applications.

The SHORT example offered by ANITIX87 is good, but nothing longer should EVER be sent, even if you follow up your follow up. You want to show dedication and enthusiasm, but in an unobtrusive way that isn't simply what is easiest and least awkward for YOU. Mix it up with phone calls, an old fashioned hand written note, dropping by in person, etc...


Pu

[Edited 2012-11-29 09:01:19]

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: vikkyvik
Posted 2012-11-29 09:08:31 and read 1353 times.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
Your follow-up sort of sounds like, "But...but...I'm really good! See?!?!?" It doesn't seem necessary since the initial response explicitly stated they wanted to bring you onto the team.

That's exactly what I thought.

Nothing wrong with contacting him, sort of as a gentle reminder of "hey, remember me?" But no need to try and sell yourself so much again.

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: AR385
Posted 2012-11-29 09:31:04 and read 1338 times.

I agree with ANITIX87. Your second letter is just not necessary and is a little over the top. The guy who´s hiring you has already replied very briefly and more telling, wrote this:

"As we discussed, would like to bring you on the team but need to let some things settle here."

You need to be patient. Also, keep looking. I don´t want to disappoint you but sometimes companies´ personnel requirements change rapidly and in a month they just may don´t need you anymore.

Send him a a couple of brief, short e-mails just so he is reminded of your interest and hope for the best.

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-11-29 09:31:13 and read 1338 times.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
Your follow-up sort of sounds like, "But...but...I'm really good! See?!?!?" It doesn't seem necessary since the initial response explicitly stated they wanted to bring you onto the team.

   And that would be a turn-off for me if I were doing the hiring. I'd think "I've already told this guy I want to bring him on but it isn't quite the right time yet, and now he seems to be whining about it." (not saying you are whining, but that's how it comes across)

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
My advice would be to wait until after your 12/5 AFI-I so that you can boast about your success, not about an imminent appointment.

   Don't send that email, or any email at all, until after you've done your CFII practical (which is less than a week away now if I'm doing the math right). After that's done and you have the certificate in hand, then you can think about sending him the email that ANITIX87 proposed, a sort of "hey, just letting you know I got my CFII now and I'm still interested in the job, how are things your end?" letter. Or, since he said to "give him a shout", you could also call him on the phone.

If he mentions that he doesn't have room for another full-time instructor at the moment, then (and only then) can you bring up the idea of doing something part-time that would lead to full-time down the road. If he just flat-out says they don't have room at the moment, then that's a sign that he's already considered the part-time idea and decided it's not going to work on their end, and there's no need to push - that will only make them feel more uncomfortable.

Be patient here. It will likely be rewarded.

-Mir

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: gsoshutout55
Posted 2012-11-29 09:45:33 and read 1325 times.

Thanks, everyone.

I'm young and don't have a lot of real world experience. However, I have been an ice hockey official for 7 years, and out of necessity, have developed a sense of self confidence and belief in my self as abilities. I try not to come off as arrogant, but my previous life experience has required me to become sure of myself f I am to do my job well.

Additionally, the majority of what I have learned has been from textbooks and school. I have a management minor, and have tried to apply what I have learned from lectures and textbooks.

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-11-29 09:57:00 and read 1313 times.

This:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
simple
Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
professional
Quoting Pu (Reply 2):
SHORT
Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
after you've done your CFII practical

If you want to reply to his response:

Quoting gsoshutout55 (Thread starter):
Quote:

David, appreciate you coming by today in chatting with me regarding CFI opportunities with XXX. As we discussed, would like to bring you on the team but need to let some things settle here. Feel free anytime to give me a shout if you want to discuss this more.

Then do it with something like:
"Thank you Mr. X, I understand and appreciate your taking the time with me. "

That's all. Short and concise.

And when you do pass your next level, then maybe have a "celebratory" lunch at the airport restaurant with a friend and stop in with just a very quick comment that you passed! But do not linger to talk and drag out conversation (unless they are interested and REALLY engage, versus just "polite conversation" that they may feel obligated to make), have someplace to go (whether you do or not) and head out. You just want to be on their mind, remind them you are there and actively improving your skill set, that you have what it takes to be successful in what you pursue.

By the way, my buddy got his first CFI job because he was taking some classes and getting certs at the place he was applying too. It meant he hung around and talked to the people there and got to know them (and they got to know him).

Tugg

[Edited 2012-11-29 10:06:23]

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: type-rated
Posted 2012-11-29 10:03:53 and read 1308 times.

Quoting gsoshutout55 (Thread starter):
I will bring excellent work habits and judgment to this position

I would change that to read "I will bring an excellent work ethic and a history of good judgement to this position".

The Chief CFI knows you are excited, as others have said be patient, it sounds like you have the job.

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: Pu
Posted 2012-11-29 10:09:35 and read 1304 times.

Quoting gsoshutout55 (Reply 6):
Additionally, the majority of what I have learned has been from textbooks and school

Thats important, and your recognition of how this is only the foundation of the more important education you receive by experience is important to show to employers (and everyone else really). The humility you can show by adopting the attitude of a novice is much more appealing than trying to sell yourself as an expert. The young and inexperienced have energy and enthusiasm to sell, not expert knowledge: a hired candidate is one who recognises how the young and inexperienced are perceived.

Plenty unemployed grads around who think they can learn everything in school or from a book....


Pu

Topic: RE: How Does This Letter Sound, What Would You Change?
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-11-29 10:21:16 and read 1296 times.

Quoting gsoshutout55 (Reply 6):
I'm young and don't have a lot of real world experience. However, I have been an ice hockey official for 7 years, and out of necessity, have developed a sense of self confidence and belief in my self as abilities. I try not to come off as arrogant, but my previous life experience has required me to become sure of myself f I am to do my job well.

I'm going to preface these comments by saying that I'm not accusing you of trying to come across as any of the things that you do. As you say, you're young and inexperienced, and I'm sure that if I went back and read some of the inquiry letters I sent out when I was in your position I would cringe. It's to your credit that you asked for help, so I'm trying to be as honest as I can:

The only thing that comes off as arrogant is the "I look forward to hearing from you regarding your decision" line. To me, that would imply "here's what I think you're worthy of getting from me, take it or leave it". Since you know their situation is that they can't hire you at the moment, if you come off as asking for a decision now, you might well get the decision that they can give you now (i.e. we won't hire you).

You could word that much better by saying "I look forward to hearing whether or not a part-time or contract position would be something that would work for you at the present time." That shows that you understand and value their situation, and it presents itself as an inquiry rather than a demand.

The rest of the letter actually comes off as more unsure and desperate than anything else, as if you're interpreting their "we want you, but just not now" answer as "we don't want you" and are thus trying to make the case why they should want you when they've already said that they do. There's no need to go making lists of why you would be a good employee when they have already seen that.

I suspect that you're overthinking this, which is common when you don't have a lot of experience. Again, just be patient, get your CFII done, and let things fall where they may. It really does sound like you unofficially have the job, and that the only thing that needs to be worked out is when you're going to start (though AR385 is correct that you shouldn't bank on it, and should keep inquiring elsewhere since circumstances can change quickly).

-Mir


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