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Topic: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-19 08:30:49 and read 2301 times.

Looks like it's official - the University of Maryland will be leaving the ACC to join the Big Ten. Rutgers will be next leaving the Big East to accept a Big Ten bid. Probably steps after that are the ACC extending an invite to UConn...I thought we were done with realignment after the Notre Dame to the ACC deal!

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...nvitation-join-big-ten-sources-say

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-19 13:11:21 and read 2301 times.

This would be a huge win for the Big Ten. Getting their foot in the Baltimore/DC and New York/New Jersey TV markets will be extremely lucrative for them.

Supposedly, they are looking to go all the way to sixteen teams with Texas at the top of their wish list.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-19 15:53:15 and read 2301 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Supposedly, they are looking to go all the way to sixteen teams with Texas at the top of their wish list.

Now that's funny. Texas isn't going to bolt out of the Big 12 anytime soon unless the whole thing shuts down. They gave up *13* years of media rights to the Big 12. If they leave, they are out a ton of cash for over a decade.

I think 14 is going to be a good solid number for conferences to settle at. Of course the next part of this is who will the PAC 12 go after and who with the Big 12 go after. Louisville was the 2nd choice for the Big 12 after WVU, so they could end up there. Clemson and Florida State have also shown interest in the recent past. I could also see Georgia Tech or Cincinnati go to the Big 12.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-19 16:08:48 and read 2301 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 2):
Of course the next part of this is who will the PAC 12 go after

God, we don't need any more teams. 12 is enough. However, we should have never taken in Colorado and Utah, going with some other two teams, preferably Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks.

We don't need 14 teams in any conference. 14 is ridiculous.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-19 16:13:58 and read 2301 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
God, we don't need any more teams. 12 is enough. However, we should have never taken in Colorado and Utah, going with some other two teams, preferably Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks.

Those of us here in the Big 12 thank you for taking Colorado.  

I agree with you that Boise and Hawaii would have been better picks. Might still be options if the Big East continues to flop.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-19 16:33:50 and read 2302 times.

I think the Big 12 pretty much has to make some kind of move to at least 12 schools and put some distance between themselves and the ACC. It's about keeping up in the court of public opinion so their teams get a fair shot at the playoff and national title. They'd be well served to make it a clear division between the big four coferences and everyone else. Grab Florida State and Clemson and they will have created that division.

I'm not sure if the PAC 12 has to do anything, and I don't think they see any really attractive options anyway. Also, from a money and academics standpoint (the things that matter to the school presidents) Utah and Colorado were the best two team option once Big 12 schools were off the table.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: jpetekyxmd80
Posted 2012-11-19 16:42:42 and read 2301 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):

Supposedly, they are looking to go all the way to sixteen teams with Texas at the top of their wish list.

That ship has sailed. That was the case several years ago.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-19 16:58:41 and read 2301 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 5):
Utah and Colorado were the best two team option once Big 12 schools were off the table.

At the time, yes. But not now.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-19 17:26:18 and read 2301 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 5):
Utah and Colorado were the best two team option once Big 12 schools were off the table.

At the time, yes. But not now.

Who would be better options now?

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-19 19:25:47 and read 2301 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 8):
Who would be better options now?

How come no one reads anymore?! See:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-19 19:38:03 and read 2301 times.

Mountain West has contacted Boise State, BYU and SDSU about rejoining.

SDSU has declined and wants to stay with the Big East.

Big 12 and Pac 12 apparently are saying they are okay with their current numbers, but you have to think they are still talking and planning right now. This is all about money.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-19 19:38:40 and read 2301 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
How come no one reads anymore?

I thought that must have been a joke to actually suggest those two would have been better additions.

Boise is just barely above a community college academically, and they have a market of that's about as big as Spokane.

Hawaii is absolutely terrible this season, and also a far smaller market than either Utah or Colorado. Nice road trip though.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-19 19:43:41 and read 2301 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
I thought that must have been a joke to actually suggest those two would have been better additions.

Sorry to disappoint you, I wasn't kidding.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Boise is just barely above a community college academically, and they have a market of that's about as big as Spokane.

Same thing with Washington State University, the Community College of the Pac-12.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-23 03:31:37 and read 2247 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Hawaii is absolutely terrible this season, and also a far smaller market than either Utah or Colorado. Nice road trip though.

Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-23 11:19:55 and read 2201 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Boise is just barely above a community college academically, and they have a market of that's about as big as Spokane.

Same thing with Washington State University, the Community College of the Pac-12.

The two aren't even comparable academically. Pac-12 schools all share a common bond of high levels of research at their universities. Washington State is toward the lower end of the Pac-12 in that department, but still leaps and bounds ahead of Boise State University. BSU isn't anything like the Pac-12.

Hawaii is actually one of the few options left in the west that would be close to the Pac-12 academically if the Big 12 can't be touched. It's basically Hawaii, New Mexico, and Colorado State, but CSU would be a redundant market, which is a problem since they don't bring new television subscribers for the Pac cable network. After those three you have to go all the way to University of Houston or Rice University to find someone else that might be palatable academically to the Pac-12.


Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt.

It certainly can't hurt from a recruiting standpoint, but right now the Pac gets nearly all the top recruits out west so I don't think Hawaii helps in any significant way either.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-23 14:28:11 and read 2187 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 10):
SDSU has declined and wants to stay with the Big East.

Maybe they could be lured to the Pac12 along with UNLV or Hawai'i. Three new TV markets. Maybe only Hawai'i in the same academic league. Just something wrong with SDSU being in the Big East.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-23 16:36:53 and read 2177 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
Washington State is toward the lower end of the Pac-12 in that department, but still leaps and bounds ahead of Boise State University.

While that is true, Boise State's athletic department is far better.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
Hawaii, New Mexico, and Colorado State

Hawaii brings a hell of a lot more to the Pac-12 than New Mexico & Colorado State combined. Adding NM and CSU would be suicide.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
After those three you have to go all the way to University of Houston or Rice University to find someone else that might be palatable academically to the Pac-12.

That wouldn't make sense geographically. Larry Scott isn't that stupid.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
I don't think Hawaii helps in any significant way either.

Washington and a few other Pac-12 schools have a lot of Hawaiians.   

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 15):
Maybe they could be lured to the Pac12 along with UNLV or Hawai'i

Sticking to the Pacific theme, I'd rather take Nevada over UNLV.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt.

That, to me, sends the wrong message to recruits. You're not going to Hawaii to go on vacation, you're going to Hawaii on "business". The focus is supposed to be winning the football game. When an opponent is playing at Hawaii, their players are on a very, very short leash.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-23 17:07:35 and read 2178 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
The two aren't even comparable academically.

First commandment of college sports: Thou shalt not care about academics if winning matters.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
That, to me, sends the wrong message to recruits. You're not going to Hawaii to go on vacation, you're going to Hawaii on "business". The focus is supposed to be winning the football game.

You're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids. That sort of things sells, along with cool uniforms and state of the art facilities.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-23 17:10:37 and read 2176 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
You're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids.

18-21 yer old kids. I've never heard of a kid get a scholarship at 17. But you get my point and its pretty spot on.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-23 17:39:21 and read 2170 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
I've never heard of a kid get a scholarship at 17.

Tim Floyd was offering scholarships to 8th graders when he was at USC.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
But you get my point and its pretty spot on.

Coaches need to sell kids on what appeals to them. Academics don't matter. Uniforms, trips to Hawaii, and the ability to become a millionaire sells to them. They're kids, they don't think these things through all the way.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-23 17:45:51 and read 2168 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
First commandment of college sports: Thou shalt not care about academics if winning matters.

Depends on your place in the conference pecking order. The Big 10 has not added a school that was not an AAU member. Nebraska was subsequently booted from the AAU, but the school presidents take it seriously in the Big 10. The Pac-12 can also be choosy in selecting schools that will be good for research collaboration. The Big East has been so decimated that they've had no option but to grab any schools that will bring football respectability and the ACC may be headed that direction. Academics matter until survival is on the line.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
Hawaii brings a hell of a lot more to the Pac-12 than New Mexico & Colorado State combined. Adding NM and CSU would be suicide.

I don't think that's the case at all. Lets look at the three schools and their markets.

Hawaii dominates their market, but there's only 1.4 million people on the islands. They've had one BCS bowl appearance which is a big plus and the fans turned out in droves for those teams, but the football program appears to be hitting rock bottom right now. Olympic sports aren't anything special. Decent cultural fit with the west coast schools. Another selling point is that anyone that plays a football game in Honolulu gets to schedule a 13th game, so Pac-12 members in their division would get to add a revenue generating home game every other year.

New Mexico is the most prominent team in their market of 2 million, but some of the southern and eastern parts of the state root for New Mexico State and Texas Tech. Probably ends up similar to Hawaii in total market presence. Football appears to be rebounding from rock bottom, but has never been a great program. Basketball program is the big plus to the school, with Lobo mens basketball being in the top 25 in the nation in attendance every year for the last four decades. Die hard support for this program. Women's basketball is top ten in the nation in attendance, making it one of the few schools that doesn't lose money on the sport. Doesn't have much in common with the west coast schools, but fits nicely with Pac-12 members Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Colorado State has the best academics of the three. They are also in the largest media market of the three with over five million people in Colorado. They also have more alumni in Denver than CU-Boulder. Football was good and well supported in the late 90s, but is rebuilding now. Culturally they are probably a better fit for the Big 12 than the Pac. The big downside though is that the Pac-12 network already gets on TV sets in Colorado, so adding the Rams doesn't get you any additional money from cable subscriptions.

Neither Hawaii or New Mexico will add enough money to make it worthwile to add them from that standpoint and that's why I doubt it would happen, but overall I think they're pretty equal. CSU is a good school, but not for the Pac-12 with their television model.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-23 17:52:58 and read 2166 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Tim Floyd was offering scholarships to 8th graders when he was at USC.

Stupid recruiting, if you asked me. There is one kid in the 9th grade who made a verbal commit to Washington, that raised a lot if eyebrows in the Seattle area. It even made story on ESPN!

Quoting BMI727,reply=19Coaches need to sell kids on what appeals to them.][/quote]

I disagree. Reality needs to be taught. Giving these kids a false sense of security should be against NCAA rules.

[quote=BMI727
(Reply 19):
Academics don't matter.

Incorrect. They do matter. The NCAA cares a lot about that. Universities depend on high athlete graduation rates.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Uniforms

  

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
trips to Hawaii

Not guaranteed.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
the ability to become a millionaire sells to them.

Not everyone makes it to the NFL. Another false sense of security. This is why academics are important, first and foremost. Get that degree to fall back on in case your NFL dreams don't happen.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
They're kids, they don't think these things through all the way.

That's why they still have parents. When a kid commits to a school, NCAA requires parents to sign the LOI as if it was a permission slip to go on a field trip.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-23 17:57:06 and read 2165 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 20):
Academics matter until survival is on the line.

...keep telling yourself that.

When it comes to athletic conferences, academics don't matter. Media markets matter. Winning matters. Money matters. Academics is something you pay lip service to.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-23 19:20:49 and read 2152 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
...keep telling yourself that.

  

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
When it comes to athletic conferences, academics don't matter. Media markets matter. Winning matters. Money matters. Academics is something you pay lip service to.

To the conferences, yes. But not to the schools nor the NCAA. You may want to rethink what you just said in the academics department, sir. The schools and the NCAA do care if an student athlete is failing classes, and if that student athlete continues to participate while failing classes, the NCAA goes after the school and the athlete.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-11-23 21:21:38 and read 2142 times.

I'm an alumnus of Maryland. I'm in the minority of graduates of U of M that feel this is a good move. My main reason for my positive response for the change being the economic ramifications. Recently the largest University in our State cut a lot of great sports programs due to economics. Supposedly once this is in place the University will be able to re-instate many if not all the deleted sports programs. One which is swimming/diving. Though it doesn't have the financial bang or notoriety of Basketball or Football, many of our greatest competitive swimmers have come from collegiate programs. My Alma Mata built a state of the art massive Olympic quality indoor/outdoor aquatic center recently. Though Michael Phelps did not attend Maryland, he is one of several elite swimmers to come from my locale. A giant University (over 35,000) students should have a viable aquatics program. The next Michael Phelps or Natalie Coughlin could be a few exits up I-95 and could go out of state if Maryland does not re-instate it's aquatics program.

Many have argued that Maryland Terps Football would become a perennial loser in the Big 10. Northwestern comes to mind they had 20 or so losing seasons in a row but have since improved. If our Orioles in the MLB can go from worst to first so can our Terps football team whether it be the ACC or the Big 10.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-23 22:39:16 and read 2151 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
Stupid recruiting, if you asked me.

It probably is, but some coaches are willing to risk it.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
I disagree. Reality needs to be taught. Giving these kids a false sense of security should be against NCAA rules.

...because all these schools are great about following NCAA rules right now? Coaches are tasked with winning, and the kids and their families should be aware of that.

Do you really think that Oregon having new and cool uniforms doesn't appeal to recruits? You think the shiny new facilities with flat screens in the locker rooms doesn't make an impression on 17 year olds? You think coaches don't name drop the future stars they worked with before? You think said kids aren't interested in a trip to Hawaii or the Virgin Islands?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
Not everyone makes it to the NFL.

The recruits don't care about that. They think they can and they want the coach that helps them get there.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
This is why academics are important, first and foremost.

Academics are important because it keeps the NCAA from sniffing around and possibly finding that a player ate lunch with an alumnus or something like that.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
Get that degree to fall back on in case your NFL dreams don't happen.

The school will still be there. I would never advise someone to stay in school when they could go make tons of money playing professionally. There's too much risk, just ask Marcus Lattimore.

And a lot of players have no interest in school in the first place.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 23):
You may want to rethink what you just said in the academics department, sir.

Nope. It's something schools and the NCAA pay lip service too but what really matters is winning and money. There are exceptions, but for the most part if you're a player for a major program in a major sport, you're basically majoring in the game.

I'm a fan of John Calipari because he knows the score and doesn't pretend to be something he isn't.
http://deadspin.com/5898339/john-calipari-the-first-honest-coach
http://deadspin.com/5960913/the-real...liparis-kentucky?tag=john-calipari

Quote:
The deal he offers them couldn't be more straightforward: Give me seven months and I will make you rich. It's basically a one-year associate's degree in basketball with an unparalleled job-placement record. As Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky is reported to have joked, Calipari is "turning out more millionaires than a Wall Street firm."

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-24 01:33:00 and read 2140 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 20):
Another selling point is that anyone that plays a football game in Honolulu gets to schedule a 13th game, so Pac-12 members in their division would get to add a revenue generating home game every other year.

Hmmm...interesting. Althouugh I'm not sure it applies to conference members.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Do you really think that Oregon having new and cool uniforms doesn't appeal to recruits? You think the shiny new facilities with flat screens in the locker rooms doesn't make an impression on 17 year olds? You think coaches don't name drop the future stars they worked with before? You think said kids aren't interested in a trip to Hawaii or the Virgin Islands?

Not to mention chartered wide-bodies to away games.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-24 05:22:26 and read 2134 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Do you really think that Oregon having new and cool uniforms doesn't appeal to recruits?

It never appealed to me nor my teammates when we were playing in high school. We didn't care about that.

Oh, wow! Shiny uniforms!   

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
You think said kids aren't interested in a trip to Hawaii or the Virgin Islands?

Like I said......

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
trips to Hawaii

Not guaranteed.

There are ZERO guarantees that a game at Hawaii will be on anyone's schedule in the next 4 years. I doubt that recruits care about that. The SEC rarely ever sees a game against Hawaii.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
The school will still be there.

Of course! But the scholarship will not be, if a player had one. Not all scholarships are created equal.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Academics are important because it keeps the NCAA from sniffing around and possibly finding that a player ate lunch with an alumnus or something like that.

What does that have to do with academics? Nothing. What you described is a violation on accepting gifts or bribes.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
It's something schools and the NCAA pay lip service too but what really matters is winning and money. There are exceptions, but for the most part if you're a player for a major program in a major sport, you're basically majoring in the game.

No. Wrong. Players have been suspended in the past by the NCAA, not the schools, for failing classes. They become academically ineligable until they start improving in the classroom. Coach Sark at Washington is very strict about players graduating. He actually goes to the classes during the off season.

When a school loses its best player because if grades in key games, that hurts the team as a whole. You really ought to research in this a bit more. Look at what Washington's players are actually majoring in. That should give you a wee lil bit of insight. Most players do care about getting their degree!!!

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-24 09:39:17 and read 2112 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
No. Wrong. Players have been suspended in the past by the NCAA, not the schools, for failing classes.

Well, schools ultimately can be kicked out of Div. I if their APR falls below a certain level

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-24 13:50:24 and read 2093 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 28):

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
No. Wrong. Players have been suspended in the past by the NCAA, not the schools, for failing classes.

Well, schools ultimately can be kicked out of Div. I if their APR falls below a certain level


Correct you are sir. Correct you are. However, I have never seen that happen.....at least not yet.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-24 14:54:52 and read 2076 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
It never appealed to me nor my teammates when we were playing in high school. We didn't care about that.

When you have a dozen or so top programs coming for you and one of them is bankrolled by Nike, it matters. Again, these are kids.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
The SEC rarely ever sees a game against Hawaii.

They just see bowl games and national championships year after year. It's all a bargaining chip to sweeten the pot for recruits a little bit.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
Of course! But the scholarship will not be, if a player had one. Not all scholarships are created equal.

Play in the NFL for a couple of years and they'll be able to afford college. Unless they blow through all their money, but that's their problem.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
What you described is a violation on accepting gifts or bribes.

The problem is that when the NCAA comes to investigate something they usually find something. It's better to just keep them away entirely.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
Players have been suspended in the past by the NCAA, not the schools, for failing classes. They become academically ineligable until they start improving in the classroom.

The schools respond to this by making it as difficult as they can for players to fail. According to some things I've read, some high level college athletes seem barely literate.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
Most players do care about getting their degree!!!

Some do. Many don't. There's nothing stopping guys from caring about their studies, although I have heard that some coaches will discourage them from pursuing more intensive coursework, but many players are there just to play. And I don't see anything wrong with that and find it pointless to force guys to pretend that they care about being students when they really don't.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-24 17:33:37 and read 2062 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
one of them is bankrolled by Nike

Oregon is not bankrolled by Nike, neither is Oregon State. If they were, the NCAA would have a field day with that.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
They just see bowl games and national championships year after year. It's all a bargaining chip to sweeten the pot for recruits a little bit.

We are talking about Hawaii, not bowl games or National Championships.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
Play in the NFL for a couple of years and they'll be able to afford college.

What makes you say they'll make it in the NFL for a few years? LOL!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
It's better to just keep them away entirely.

By following the rules. It's not that difficult to do.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
The schools respond to this by making it as difficult as they can for players to fail. According to some things I've read, some high level college athletes seem barely literate.

That's BS and you know it. The NCAA has a list of classes that is deemed acceptable to take fir during the season. The school's Compliance Officer makes sure everyone is following NCAA rules.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
although I have heard that some coaches will discourage them from pursuing more intensive coursework

Only during the season yes.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
And I don't see anything wrong with that and find it pointless to force guys to pretend that they care about being students when they really don't.

Then they have no business playing football if they have that attitude. If they want to make it in life, they need to get their degree. The NFL will not take everyone, only the best get in. The average career in the NFL is approximately 3 years. That's not much.

Look, BMI, I know enough on how college football recruiting works and what coaches can and cannot do. I played High School ball my entire 3 years in Washington State. I have met many assistant coaches from Washington, Washington State, Eastern Washington, Western Washington and even Penn State made a visit to my high school to recruit one of our linebackers. (Paterno was pretty cool!). I had the privilege of meeting Jim Lambright. A few of my high school coaches played for Don James at Washington.

I think I know how college football recruiting works.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-24 20:11:25 and read 2046 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
Oregon is not bankrolled by Nike

Does it sound better if it's said that they're bankrolled by Nike founder Phil Knight instead of Nike itself? Oregon football was an absolute punching bag until the money started flowing in from Mr. Knight to build opulent facilities and buy flashy Nike uniforms to impress recruits.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-25 05:07:40 and read 2029 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 32):
buy flashy Nike uniforms to impress recruits.

Source? The NCAA would consider that as a "booster giveaway", which is against the rules. Oregon has had to pay some dollar amount for these uniforms just to be in compliance with the rules.

I do believe that Knight contributed to the facilities though......

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-25 08:32:54 and read 2014 times.

Nobody is suggesting Phil Knight gives gifts directly to the athletes. As a booster he gives money to the university. The university spends it on facilities, uniforms, coaches salaries, etc...

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-25 08:51:42 and read 2007 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
Oregon is not bankrolled by Nike

Yes they are. Phil Knight and some other Nike people are big donors to their program and make sure they are hooked up with the latest gear.

Guys like Knight and T. Boone Pickens own their teams almost as much as guys like Jerry Jones own theirs.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...erg/01/06/oregon.knight/index.html

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
What makes you say they'll make it in the NFL for a few years?

Any player that could be a high draft pick and returns for another year is kind of dumb. It's one thing if you might actually improve your stock, but otherwise you're just costing yourself money.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
By following the rules. It's not that difficult to do.

First of all, following the NCAA rules is difficult. There's tons of them and many don't make much sense at all.

Secondly, following said rules doesn't help you win or bring in money.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
That's BS and you know it. The NCAA has a list of classes that is deemed acceptable to take fir during the season.

Wrong again. Schools do what it takes to keep their players playing. The NCAA says they have to pass, so schools make it really hard for them to fail.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...UNC-NCAA-academic-fraud/index.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...but_it_s_time_to_break.single.html

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
Only during the season yes.

If a star athlete decides they want to double major in biology and physics, do you think a coach is going to sit them down for a little talk?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
Then they have no business playing football if they have that attitude.

That's not what coaches think. Or the thousands of screaming fans. Or the players themselves for that matter. After all, who could forget Cardale "We Ain't Come to Play School" Jones? (Actually, many people can since he's a third string QB)

The whole student athlete thing is largely a sham these days. Big time college players are definitely athletes, but the student part is mostly optional.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
The NFL will not take everyone, only the best get in. The average career in the NFL is approximately 3 years. That's not much.

Universities don't care about that. Coaches don't talk about guys who are broke and injured five years after they stop playing football professionally. But they are more than happy to talk about all the guys in the NFL and show tape of their former players putting on a hat and shaking hands with King Roger.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
Paterno was pretty cool!

Ah, yes. The man who stood for the real student athletes. The coach that molded men, built character, and did things the right way. How did that work out for him?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 31):
I think I know how college football recruiting works.

You fell for it. College sports is a business, and a rather dirty one at that. At least, dirty in the sense that paying players who bring in millions of dollars or having guys who have little interest or ability as students not doing actual school work is dirty, which I don't really think it is. If I'm turning on the TV to watch college sports, what the quarterback scored on his SAT or whether or not the running back got a free set of rims for his car has exactly zero impact on how much I enjoy the game.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: us330
Posted 2012-11-25 10:13:11 and read 2003 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
However, we should have never taken in Colorado and Utah, going with some other two teams, preferably Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks

Disagree, only because of the money issue and television markets--Utah and Colorado bring much bigger TV markets to the table than Hawaii and Boise State--and Hawaii and Boise State are already likely being shown Pac 12 games as part of regional coverage anyway.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt

I'd actually consider it a pain as a football player to have to go out to Hawaii for a regular season game. Have to take a four or five hour flight out to the islands, only get there the day before you are supposed to play, meaning that you effectively have no free time to do anything fun (if you actually care about beating UH), and then you fly out back to your school once everyone is dressed and the locker room is packed up.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
Hawaii is actually one of the few options left in the west that would be close to the Pac-12 academically if the Big 12 can't be touched.

That's not saying much then for the rest of the western schools. I'd actually argue that the best D1 BCS level playing football school academically out west (in the mountain or pacific time zones) that is not a part of the Pac 12 is actually the Air Force Academy.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 15):
Maybe they could be lured to the Pac12 along with UNLV or Hawai'i. Three new TV markets.

Pac 12 already has the San Diego television market, so SDSU doesn't add anything. Hawaii likely gets Pac 12 regional coverage anyway, and same with UNLV, considering Nevada is bordered by Arizona, California, and Utah. In terms of new tv markets, the Pac 12 needs to look further east--think Texas and Oklahoma. All the other states in the mountain or pacific time zones already get Pac 12 regional coverage, so they can effectively pick and choose who from those states they want to join them.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
When it comes to athletic conferences, academics don't matter. Media markets matter. Winning matters. Money matters. Academics is something you pay lip service to.

Yep--generally speaking of course. It's only an issue if a school's academics are so poor w respect to their athletes that they are in danger of being suspended from post-season play.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 24):
I'm an alumnus of Maryland. I'm in the minority of graduates of U of M that feel this is a good move. My main reason for my positive response for the change being the economic ramifications. Recently the largest University in our State cut a lot of great sports programs due to economics. Supposedly once this is in place the University will be able to re-instate many if not all the deleted sports programs

I actually agree. Maryland's biggest problem is that its strongest sports are non-revenue sports--sports like men's and women's lacrosse, field hockey, etc. The school already had to cut seven programs because of budget issues. By going to the Big 10, your mediocre football program (even by ACC standards) won't likely be anymore successful, your basketball program stands a reasonable chance of being competitive within the conference, and you gain a lot more money that you can spend to compensate for your non-revenue sports that you are actually competitive in. As dumb as it sounds, by joining the Big 10, Maryland is actually looking out for the student-athlete.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: MD-90
Posted 2012-11-25 10:50:04 and read 1997 times.

It is an absolute fact that Jerrell Powe cannot read yet after his two year eligibility battle he managed to qualify and Ole Miss gleefully had him play until he went to the NFL. This does not happen just in the SEC either (but we cracked a lot of jokes about Ole Miss' academic pretensions while he was on the team).

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-25 12:22:36 and read 1988 times.

Quoting us330 (Reply 36):
That's not saying much then for the rest of the western schools. I'd actually argue that the best D1 BCS level playing football school academically out west (in the mountain or pacific time zones) that is not a part of the Pac 12 is actually the Air Force Academy.

The Air Force Academy is certainly a great school, but it's mission is completely different from PAC-12 members. They don't engage in much academic research in Colorado Springs. Great school, but it would take a change on the academic stance of the conference for them to be invited.

Quoting us330 (Reply 36):
Disagree, only because of the money issue and television markets--Utah and Colorado bring much bigger TV markets to the table than Hawaii and Boise State--and Hawaii and Boise State are already likely being shown Pac 12 games as part of regional coverage anyway.

I'm sure both get their share of PAC-12 games on ABC, but what hasn't been mentioned is how the conference networks have shifted the equation for the PAC-12 and Big 10. There's no marquee football matchup value in adding Maryland or Rutgers, but their markets combine for around 11 million television households. The subscriber fee for the Big 10 network in the conference footprint is rumored to be $1.10 per month, with the channel on a lower tier, versus 10 cents a month on a higher tier outside the footprint. If the conference can get only 60% of those households paying the $1.10 fee that's around $79 million annually to the conference. The same math applies to the PAC-12.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-25 13:36:47 and read 1971 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
Any player that could be a high draft pick and returns for another year is kind of dumb.

No, it isn't. It's called refining your craft. Take Jake Locker for example. He came back for another year and gave up millions before the new rookie pay was put into effect. That shows class. And look where he is today. Not to shabby, eh?

But then again, I'm not going to respond to your the rest of your post anymore or this one subject. We are getting wayyyyyyyyyyy off topic here. If you want to discuss NCAA recruiting, I suggest you open up a new thread on that topic.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-25 16:57:45 and read 1949 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
If a star athlete decides they want to double major in biology and physics, do you think a coach is going to sit them down for a little talk?

Yep, I remember SMU DL Michael Carter (also National HS shot put champ) wanting to major in Engineering but the field work labs conflicted with FB so he had to major in Business.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 37):
cannot read

I remember RB Gary Anderson not being able to read his Arkansas diploma.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-25 17:25:08 and read 1939 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 40):

Yep, I remember SMU DL Michael Carter (also National HS shot put champ) wanting to major in Engineering but the field work labs conflicted with FB so he had to major in Business.

And as another instance let's look at an athlete who took academics VERY seriously - Florida State safety Myron Rolle. So seriously that Rolle was a Rhodes Scholar, picking up an MSc in Medical Anthropology. IIRC, his draft stock fell because his commitment to football was questioned.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):

It never appealed to me nor my teammates when we were playing in high school. We didn't care about that.

Oh, wow! Shiny uniforms!

Sorry AirframeAS, but whether it really does have an effect or not, there's the perception that it does and it's a perception shared by coaching staffs. UNC bought a new set of white helmets this year that were worn for, IIRC, two games. They also bought a set of the shiny metallic helmets that were also worn for, IIRC, two games. The white helmets, at least cost $30,000 for a set and I'm sure the metallic ones cost at least that much if not more. So why drop at least $60K on new brain buckets?

Freeman said the changes in helmet design are being done to keep up with a national trend.
“It’s what the landscape of college football has become,” he said.

“You almost have to have more helmets, more jerseys — it’s what a lot of the kids want to see these days.”


and

The white helmets for the Virginia Tech game were ordered before the summer started, costing $30,000 to make for all 120 of the players.

“It’s an expensive process to order a whole new set of helmets for everybody because you’re talking 120 guys,” he said.

But UNC isn’t the only school putting down large sums to secure festive uniforms. Many other schools are part of this trend, Freeman said, with Oregon leading the pack.

“That’s kind of a sign of the times now and Oregon kind of started all that,” Morelli said.

Fellow Atlantic Coast Conference teams Maryland, Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech have also joined in.


http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2012/09/5065245cc1edb

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-11-25 18:03:10 and read 1935 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
No, it isn't. It's called refining your craft. Take Jake Locker for example.

You're going to cite Jake Locker as your example? Really, of all people, Jake Locker?

Let's review a bit. After the 2009 season, Locker was considered a top prospect for the 2010 NFL draft, however Locker elected to return for the 2010 season with Washington.

For the 2010 season, most of Locker's statistics were actually worse than the year before: completion percentage, yards, and touchdowns all dropped over his previous effort, although the team did win more games.

But, what about his stock as a pro? In the 2010 draft, three quarterbacks were selected in the first two rounds. Sam Bradford went with the top overall pick and set a record for a rookie contract at six years with a value of $78 million ($50 million guaranteed). Tim Tebow was selected with the 25th pick and got a contract worth $11.25 million over four years and Jimmy Clausen of Notre Dame was selected with the 48th pick and got a four year, $4.2 million contract.

In 2011, after the lockout and new CBA which altered rookie compensation, Jake Locker was drafted by Tennessee with the 8th pick overall. He received a four year contract for approximately $12 million. The 8th pick from 2010, linebacker Rolando McClain of the Raiders, signed a five year $40 million deal.

It's hard to project exactly how things would have shaken out, but it seems pretty clear that Locker's decision to return in 2010 and "refine his craft" literally cost him millions of dollars.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 40):
Yep, I remember SMU DL Michael Carter (also National HS shot put champ) wanting to major in Engineering but the field work labs conflicted with FB so he had to major in Business.

There are athletes that major in difficult subjects and do quite well at it, but such players are the exception rather than the rule.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-27 06:46:19 and read 1800 times.

Rumors going around the Internet suggest that the Big Ten extended invites to UNC and UVA and the SEC may extend invites to Clemson and Florida State. From an SEC perspective I doubt either of those teams would really be in play as it does nothing to extend the conference's footprint. Now if the SEC extended an invite to NC State or ECU I could see that.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: casinterest
Posted 2012-11-27 07:22:38 and read 1791 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 43):
NC State or ECU I

This would be too good to be true. There are a ton of SEC fans in tthe triangle and eastern NC that would love for this to happen, just to be able to see some good SEC football without having to drive 4+ hours.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-11-27 09:21:32 and read 1779 times.

Being reported Tulane being added to the Big East as the replacement for Rutgers. Also rumors that East Carolina will be added to the Big East in football only.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-27 10:30:06 and read 1775 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42):
it seems pretty clear that Locker's decision to return in 2010 and "refine his craft" literally cost him millions of dollars.

So friggin what! That's his choice, not yours. He decided to come back on his own, KNOWING about the CBA on rookie pay was changing dramatically. To bash him on that is immature on your part.

The NFL is not everything to college football players, you know. There is more to life than just football, you should know this already. If you hadn't known that, then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm sure Locker has no regrets at all. He got to play in an actual bowl game and he accomplished his goals at UW. I'm proud of the guy.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-27 13:51:38 and read 1757 times.

The ACC is suing Maryland for the exit fee

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ued-acc-exit-fee-big-ten-departure

And UNC AD Bubba Cunningham e-mailed Heels fans to let them know they have no interest in jumping to the Big 10

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...-email-responds-realignment-rumors

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-27 14:14:45 and read 1756 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 47):
The ACC is suing Maryland for the exit fee

So, they are suing Maryland for something that has no happened yet....just to make sure that Maryland pays the exit fee, in which the ACC fears that Maryland won't pay. My question is, has Maryland said anything (other than voting against the exit fee) that they refuse to pay the fees when they leave the ACC? If not, then the ACC has no grounds to sue the University of Maryland until the University refuses to pay the fee when they leave.

This is ridiculous. This adds more to the cost for Maryland to defend itself in a silly lawsuit. WTH?!

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-27 14:30:56 and read 1754 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 48):
My question is, has Maryland said anything (other than voting against the exit fee) that they refuse to pay the fees when they leave the ACC?

Based on SI's article covering same:

The lawsuit also states that Maryland President Wallace D. Loh has "refused to provide assurance'' that the school will pay the exit fee and "has made it clear that defendant Maryland does not intend to pay the amount.''

In a statement, Commissioner John Swofford says the ACC's council of presidents unanimously decided "to file legal action to ensure enforcement of this obligation.''

"We continue to extend our best wishes to the University of Maryland; however, there is the expectation that Maryland will fulfill its exit fee obligation,'' Swofford said.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...thru.0516/index.html#ixzz2DSsesCXu

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-27 15:24:45 and read 1749 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 49):
The lawsuit also states that Maryland President Wallace D. Loh has "refused to provide assurance'' that the school will pay the exit fee

In other words: "We, at the ACC, are pissed off that Maryland has voted down the exit fee agreement and we do not trust that they will not pay the exit fee in accordance with the rules, forcing the ACC to take legal action for just in case they actually withhold the fees when they bolt." That is how I interpret it. Lame.

If it makes any difference, I think that the ACC is putting the cart ahead of the horse and is acting too pre-maturely. They should wait until Maryland bolts for their new conference, see if they pay the exit fee or not, then take legal action if they don't fulfill the obligation. Taking legal action now is a risk to both, the school and the ACC, considering how much money they will have to pay their lawyers in the event that the ACC loses the lawsuit. Its 2012 now, and this doesn't officially happen until 2014, two years from now. Having lawyers on both sides sitting on their ass for two years, getting paid for nothing is pretty lame.

Lame move on the ACC's part. They could have and should have waited. It's cheaper for all parties involved.

[Edited 2012-11-27 15:55:42]

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-11-28 07:46:33 and read 1699 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 50):

If it makes any difference, I think that the ACC is putting the cart ahead of the horse and is acting too pre-maturely. They should wait until Maryland bolts for their new conference, see if they pay the exit fee or not, then take legal action if they don't fulfill the obligation.

For what it's worth the complaint has gone up now

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/doc...sity-of-maryland-college-park/154/

Per the complaint, the withdrawal payment is triggered "upon notice of withdrawal from the association of members" and goes into effect as of the date of notice of withdrawal. Maryland has provided that notice of withdrawal, so payment was immediately due.

And the ACC has immediately gone and replaced Maryland with Louisville. Interesting, as I would have thought UConn would have been the lock over Louisville.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-28 08:55:30 and read 1689 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 43):
Rumors going around the Internet suggest that the Big Ten extended invites to UNC and UVA and the SEC may extend invites to Clemson and Florida State.

I don't see SC or Florida allowing Clemson and FSU to get invites. They've always made sure not to let them in. If the Big Ten takes UNC and UVA that could change things some though.

I think SEC goes after Virginia Tech and NC State (if UNC isn't taken by Big Ten) to expand the TV market.

If all this happens then Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, and Cincinnati probably go to the Big 12. If the Big 12 wants to match the 16 figure, then maybe Notre Dame and Navy. ND is a long shot and they realigned with the ACC recently for all spots but football. However, if ND realizes that they will have to go up against large super conferences that will tie up much of the teams in league play (not allowed ND to schedule), they might be forced to finally join a conference. It would make the Big 12 more attractive than the ACC as well if things fell in line.

The ACC then would have to loot the rest of the Big East and maybe even the MAC and CUSA to fill out. The funny thing in all of this, the MAC is the most stable out of anyone having all of its core teams in conference for 40-50 years or more. Of course that means nothing these days.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-28 15:45:37 and read 1660 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 51):
And the ACC has immediately gone and replaced Maryland with Louisville

This makes me wonder....interesting indeed. Why didn't the ACC mention that in its lawsuit against Maryland? This gives Maryland more ammo, citing now that the ACC found an immediate replacement, the lawsuit should be dismissed as the ACC isn't losing much at all.

I'm no attorney, but I see the ACC losing this one. The Conference is just being greedy.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-28 22:10:34 and read 1648 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
I'm no attorney, but I see the ACC losing this one. The Conference is just being greedy.

I don't think the ACC can afford to lose it. If they do, I would completely expect FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech evaluate on how to exploit it.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-29 07:36:50 and read 1620 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
I'm no attorney, but I see the ACC losing this one.

They'll probably settle for the original $10MM exit fee or slightly higher.

Topic: RE: Maryland Leaving The ACC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-29 17:32:10 and read 1594 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 55):
They'll probably settle for the original $10MM exit fee or slightly higher.

You are probably right.... I still see that as a "loss" for the ACC.


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