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Topic: NYC Right On Red
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-24 20:45:58 and read 2486 times.

In NYC there is one traffic law that is reversed from pretty much the rest of the entire US. In NYC you are prohibited from making a right turn on red a red light unless otherwise posted. Why is this? I don't see any benefit of it. Even if there is a benefit of it in say midtown, why outside of midtown? The outer boroughs certainly don't need such a restriction.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-24 20:57:04 and read 2474 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Thread starter):
Even if there is a benefit of it in say midtown, why outside of midtown? The outer boroughs certainly don't need such a restriction.

Too many pedestrians around, even in the outer boroughs. Maybe not during the nighttime, but then it becomes a question of when you have the law in effect and when you don't. It's not a big deal to wait an extra thirty seconds or so for the light to turn green.

-Mir

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-24 21:49:40 and read 2452 times.

I disagree. Outside midtown and maybe a few other areas of Brooklyn and Queens the level of pedestrians are similar to any other major city. Stopping before making the turn which is the requirement would eliminate pedestrian risk if you ask me. If anything the hardest thing about driving is when that light turns green trying to make that right turn as now all the pedestrians have the walk sign on the street you are trying to turn onto.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-24 22:10:59 and read 2437 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 2):
Stopping before making the turn which is the requirement would eliminate pedestrian risk if you ask me.

Except that people wouldn't do it. Traffic rules are not followed very closely in NYC.

You'd have more people getting hit by cars if right turns on red were allowed, I guarantee it.

-Mir

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: WildcatYXU
Posted 2012-12-24 22:23:53 and read 2429 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Too many pedestrians around, even in the outer boroughs.
Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
You'd have more people getting hit by cars if right turns on red were allowed, I guarantee it.

My personal experience says you're wrong. The only city in Canada where I was almost ran over by a car while crossing an intersection is Montreal. It happens to be the only city with no right turns on red in Canada too.
As I see it, the problem isn't the rule - the problem is the driver's mentality and nothing will change that.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-24 22:32:14 and read 2428 times.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
My personal experience says you're wrong.

Well, I live in NYC, and I both drive and walk a lot in the city, so I'm willing to stand by my statement.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
As I see it, the problem isn't the rule - the problem is the driver's mentality and nothing will change that.

Correct. Sometimes you just have to adapt the rules to the prevailing mentality, and this is one of those times.

-Mir

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Airportugal310
Posted 2012-12-24 22:59:04 and read 2416 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Except that people wouldn't do it. Traffic rules are not followed very closely in NYC.

You'd have more people getting hit by cars if right turns on red were allowed, I guarantee it.
Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Well, I live in NYC, and I both drive and walk a lot in the city, so I'm willing to stand by my statement.

I will agree with you. People think that drivers in the Northeast are like everywhere else in the US. They most certainly are not...

I grew up and lived in Boston for 28 years AND dated a girl in NYC for 5 years. Anyone who quips saying otherwise isn't familiar with how it works "up here"

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
As I see it, the problem isn't the rule - the problem is the driver's mentality and nothing will change that.

That is correct, and that is not going to change with a rule change. What's done is done



All that being said, I live in Hawai'i now where I feel like my head is going to explode at every intersection. But that's me...and I have some self-work to do!  

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-24 23:12:14 and read 2409 times.

It's true that there is no city like NY but this is the only city that has this restriction. I find it hard to believe that without this rule people would be getting run over so frequently. As I said earlier I feel it's more dangerous to a pedestrian when people try to make a right turn on the green light when there is a mass off people crossing the street infront of a car turning. That to me seems much more dangerous. I also live, drive and walk in NY and I dont see my danger of a pedestrian much higher.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Ps762
Posted 2012-12-25 00:19:35 and read 2395 times.

Hi!

Many thanks. Interesting thing to read. i can't really say what is right and wrong etc. as i really know nothing about it. However I will say that for me as someone who lives in Europe going to America and seeing this "turning right on red" was quite strange at first to say the least. I have never driven in NY but in other places after I while I got used to it and it seemed quite sensible and effective. In many places I went though there were very few pedestrians around in suburbs and stuff.

Another thing I wanted to mention was stop signs! This is actually quite serious I think. There is no requirement for someone with a UK license to really learn American driving laws and I never understood stop signs very well, particularly two way and even sometimes 4 way stop signs. I know it's probably really simple but I remember when I got there driving around with these things I really didn't know what I was doing and could have caused an accident. Maybe Alamo should give us a leaflet or maybe I should have just looked it up online!

Many thanks.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Airportugal310
Posted 2012-12-25 00:30:31 and read 2389 times.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 8):
Another thing I wanted to mention was stop signs! This is actually quite serious I think. There is no requirement for someone with a UK license to really learn American driving laws and I never understood stop signs very well, particularly two way and even sometimes 4 way stop signs. I know it's probably really simple but I remember when I got there driving around with these things I really didn't know what I was doing and could have caused an accident. Maybe Alamo should give us a leaflet or maybe I should have just looked it up online!

Agreed to some extent....I think a lot of our interesting traffic situations in the US could be EASILY solved by rotarys, traffic circles, roundabouts, whatever you want to call them....

However, they aren't. And I can't understand why. Thoughts?

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Ps762
Posted 2012-12-25 00:39:46 and read 2387 times.

Hi!

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 9):
Agreed to some extent....I think a lot of our interesting traffic situations in the US could be EASILY solved by rotarys, traffic circles, roundabouts, whatever you want to call them....

However, they aren't. And I can't understand why. Thoughts?

Many thanks. This is a good question I think. There is probably some historical reason how it ended up that way maybe. I remember once I came across a roundabout in Florida and it was quite strange! I think my mind went blank as to which way I should go round it! D'Oh!

But they probably save a lot of money at least with the small roundabouts. Here in the UK I think over the last maybe 10 years I think tons of mini-roundabouts popped up in places where they used to have "give way" signs and 4 way meetings and stuff. I think this was mainly to stop accidents and I think it did work.

However part of me is thinking maybe it is cheaper to just plant a few stop signs than make a mound and paint a circle so maybe multiplied by a million they might think it's too expensive? However I really know nothing about it and am just making uneducated guesses! Sorry.

Many thanks.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-25 01:18:48 and read 2368 times.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 8):
Another thing I wanted to mention was stop signs! This is actually quite serious I think. There is no requirement for someone with a UK license to really learn American driving laws and I never understood stop signs very well, particularly two way and even sometimes 4 way stop signs. I know it's probably really simple but I remember when I got there driving around with these things I really didn't know what I was doing and could have caused an accident. Maybe Alamo should give us a leaflet or maybe I should have just looked it up online!



Stop signs are for smaller roads crossing secondary roads. Basically a low travelled road that crosses a slightly more travelled road. There places where stop signs are at roads that really should have a traffic light the 1 that comes to my mind is the I95 off ramp for SAV. I think the finally did put a light there recently. A four way stop is for 2 low travelled secondary roads. Basically enough traffic that all lanes should stop for a moment to regulate traffic but not enough to warrant a light. At a four-way stop the rule is the first one there gets to go unless you are making a left turn the you are supposed to yield to the oncoming traffic then turn.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Ps762
Posted 2012-12-25 01:33:07 and read 2364 times.

Hi!

Many thanks. You know I have driven quite a lot and never knew that left turn rule about the 4 way at all. Plus are you meant to come to a stop at every stop sign even if nowone is around? I think I heard that.

If I remember right the 2 ways would scare me where you would be travelling down some faster road and crossing over and hoping the people would stop on the perpendicualar road. Plus I think once or twice I even missed the two way sign and crossed over which could have been very dangerous.

Anyway sorry I went totally off topic. But at least I learnt a bit.

Many thanks.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2012-12-25 03:32:17 and read 2348 times.

Newark, NJ and surrounding Essex Co. had a similar rule at one time too. Perhaps the major reason in NYC is to make sure crossing traffic on a green light has a chance to get through intersections in areas with heavy traffic and a high demand to make right turns (like near river crossings - bridges and tunnels and on/off major streets and avenues).

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-12-25 05:34:56 and read 2326 times.

When I learned to drive a right turn on red was illegal in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and a couple years later when I was in California.

I see a lot of intersections in Dallas where a right turn on red should be illegal. Because of restricted sight lines for the driver or for pedestrians.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-12-25 05:47:35 and read 2315 times.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 12):
Plus are you meant to come to a stop at every stop sign even if nowone is around? I think I heard that.

Legally, yes, you are suppose to come to a complete stop. In reality most people do what is called a "rolling stop," in which they slow way down to where they could stop if necessary but never actually physically stop. That is technically illegal though, so don't do that if there is a cop around.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 12):
If I remember right the 2 ways would scare me where you would be travelling down some faster road and crossing over and hoping the people would stop on the perpendicualar road.

Yes it is very annoying when someone looks like they are not going to stop in time, if at all. In situations like that you should just always have your foot hovering over the brake, not on the gas pedal.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-25 08:11:06 and read 2282 times.

You can turn right on red on Staten Island, which is the least densely populated borough.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: cmf
Posted 2012-12-25 09:10:06 and read 2261 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 11):
At a four-way stop the rule is the first one there gets to go unless you are making a left turn the you are supposed to yield to the oncoming traffic then turn

Maybe in New York but in Florida it is all about the order you get there. Doesn't matter if you're turning left or not.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 12):
Plus are you meant to come to a stop at every stop sign even if nowone is around? I think I heard that.

I'm sorry but where did you get a drivers license? I don't know anyplace where this isn't drilled.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-25 09:19:46 and read 2257 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 7):
As I said earlier I feel it's more dangerous to a pedestrian when people try to make a right turn on the green light when there is a mass off people crossing the street infront of a car turning.

There would still be the mass of people crossing the street, except they'd be right in front of the car instead of as the car started to make the turn.

If you wanted to eliminate that, you'd have to go to a three-cycle light - one cycle for one street, one cycle for the perpendicular street, and one cycle for pedestrians only.

-Mir

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: moose135
Posted 2012-12-25 14:09:18 and read 2210 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Thread starter):
In NYC you are prohibited from making a right turn on red a red light unless otherwise posted. Why is this?

The actual law in New York state doesn't name NYC specifically, but rather prohibits turns on red in cities with over 1 million population, unless the intersection is marked to permit it. NYC is currently the only city in NYS that meets that criteria, and I'd imagine it is due to traffic congestion and safety.

What many people don't realize is that LEFT turns on red, from a one way street onto another one way street, is also legal, however the vast majority of such intersections are in NYC. According to the AAA, a left on red is actually legal in 46 states.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: cmf
Posted 2012-12-25 14:20:24 and read 2207 times.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 19):
What many people don't realize is that LEFT turns on red, from a one way street onto another one way street, is also legal, however the vast majority of such intersections are in NYC. According to the AAA, a left on red is actually legal in 46 states.

In Miami people are well aware of it. Well, they forget about the from one way street part...

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2012-12-25 14:27:20 and read 2206 times.

Quoting cmf (Reply 17):
Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 11):
At a four-way stop the rule is the first one there gets to go unless you are making a left turn the you are supposed to yield to the oncoming traffic then turn

Maybe in New York but in Florida it is all about the order you get there. Doesn't matter if you're turning left or not.

In Switzerland, it's about who gets there first, but in the case where 2 or more get there at the same time to a 4-way stop, you have to yield to those coming from the right. If you're all 4 arriving at the same time, you have to make signs and agree on who goes first (but that's theoretical, never happened to me). Isn't this rule valid in the US as well?

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 8):
Another thing I wanted to mention was stop signs! This is actually quite serious I think. There is no requirement for someone with a UK license to really learn American driving laws and I never understood stop signs very well, particularly two way and even sometimes 4 way stop signs.

Wait, what? You don't have stop signs in the UK? I'm pretty sure I saw some when visiting London (although I didn't drive myself).

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: cmf
Posted 2012-12-25 14:29:37 and read 2206 times.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
In Switzerland, it's about who gets there first, but in the case where 2 or more get there at the same time to a 4-way stop, you have to yield to those coming from the right. If you're all 4 arriving at the same time, you have to make signs and agree on who goes first (but that's theoretical, never happened to me). Isn't this rule valid in the US as well?

It is.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Ps762
Posted 2012-12-25 14:56:10 and read 2200 times.

Hi!

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
Wait, what? You don't have stop signs in the UK? I'm pretty sure I saw some when visiting London (although I didn't drive myself).

Yes we do have stop signs here you are right. But for some reason they are kinda different in the Us to me. Like I don't think we have the 2 way thing where one big road crosses a small road and we don't have the 4 way stop thing. I don't know it just seems different to me in the USA. Maybe it is just me.

Hope it might clear things up.

Many thanks.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Ps762
Posted 2012-12-25 14:59:19 and read 2195 times.

Hi!

Quoting cmf (Reply 17):
I'm sorry but where did you get a drivers license? I don't know anyplace where this isn't drilled.

Sorry I guess I should have been clearer. In the UK yuo generally do stop at all stop signs but sometimes in the US I would come across stop signs in like really quiet residential areas with like 4 way stops with nowone around for miles and stuff. These were the times I was kinda referring to.

Sorry.

Many thanks.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: okie
Posted 2012-12-25 17:00:46 and read 2187 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 7):
It's true that there is no city like NY but this is the only city that has this restriction

There are no "right turns on red" in New Orleans, I can not answer about the rest of Louisiana.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
In Switzerland, it's about who gets there first, but in the case where 2 or more get there at the same time to a 4-way stop, you have to yield to those coming from the right. If you're all 4 arriving at the same time, you have to make signs and agree on who goes first (but that's theoretical, never happened to me). Isn't this rule valid in the US as well?

Ususally around here you let the oldest/wrecked vehicle have the right of way first.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 14):
When I learned to drive a right turn on red was illegal in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and a couple years later when I was in California.

Yes way back when in Oklahoma, but some communities had right turn on red but it was posted at each signal. Somewhere, someone woke up and changed the law, now it is allowed except where posted as prohibited. Cheaper, it takes less signs to post and maintain.

However, there seems to be some misinterpretaion. Right on Red after "STOP". It appears that the drivers forget that stop part. Then of course you have to wait until you have the "right of way" which seems to be often forgoten and drivers will turn on to the road in front of you without looking to see if they do not have oncoming traffic or slowing down.


Okie

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: aznmadsci
Posted 2012-12-25 17:33:34 and read 2178 times.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 24):
but sometimes in the US I would come across stop signs in like really quiet residential areas with like 4 way stops with nowone around for miles and stuff. These were the times I was kinda referring to.

These are the worse to run! Parents would get livid if people ran stop signs, especially where the kids play. And in some neighborhoods I know if it happens more often than not, police set up traps in said neighborhoods for some easy revenue. It seems CA drivers are known for the California rolling stop where they approach a stop to a slow roll and then proceed across the intersection. It is nice to see said drivers try that here in Houston or up in Seattle and get tickets for not making a complete stop.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-25 20:58:26 and read 2130 times.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 26):
And in some neighborhoods I know if it happens more often than not, police set up traps in said neighborhoods for some easy revenue. It seems CA drivers are known for the California rolling stop where they approach a stop to a slow roll and then proceed across the intersection. It is nice to see said drivers try that here in Houston or up in Seattle and get tickets for not making a complete stop.

They do that a lot in NYC as well, NYPD loves to pull people over for rolling stops. Any time that I have ever gone to traffic court for something. I see more than half of the respondents there for stop sign violations.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: moose135
Posted 2012-12-25 21:04:40 and read 2127 times.

Quoting okie (Reply 25):
Right on Red after "STOP". It appears that the drivers forget that stop part.

When they installed Red Light Cameras in Nassau County on Long Island a few years back, a large number of the tickets issued were for rolling right on red. People were up in arms about it, since they didn't think that counted for running the light. One lady they interviewed in the paper said she always does that, and didn't understand why she got a ticket...
 

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: dc9northwest
Posted 2012-12-26 03:13:40 and read 2091 times.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 24):
In the UK yuo generally do stop at all stop signs but sometimes in the US I would come across stop signs in like really quiet residential areas with like 4 way stops with nowone around for miles and stuff. These were the times I was kinda referring to.

It's easiest to just read what the sign says and obey it.   It says stop, so that's what you should do.

People who don't fully stop at stop signs... I just don't like them. A car is a deadly weapon yet anyone can get one... The least people can do is respect the law in this case.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 26):
It is nice to see said drivers try that here in Houston or up in Seattle and get tickets for not making a complete stop.

Excellent  
Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 27):
They do that a lot in NYC as well, NYPD loves to pull people over for rolling stops

Fantastic!

Quoting moose135 (Reply 28):
When they installed Red Light Cameras in Nassau County on Long Island a few years back, a large number of the tickets issued were for rolling right on red.

Good, good.

I'm glad the police is doing something right.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: N1120A
Posted 2012-12-26 04:16:02 and read 2077 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
It's not a big deal to wait an extra thirty seconds or so for the light to turn green.

Yes it is. It is less efficient to not have right on red.

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 9):
However, they aren't. And I can't understand why. Thoughts?

We seem more obsessed with traffic lights here. The Canadians, especially in Ontario, have been replacing a lot of traffic lights with roundabouts, with success.

Quoting okie (Reply 25):
There are no "right turns on red" in New Orleans

That is incorrect.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-26 08:29:42 and read 2034 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
You can turn right on red on Staten Island, which is the least densely populated borough.

No you can't unless the intersection is marked to say you can do so. The only places in NYC limits the law doesn't apply to is within JFK airport.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Airstud
Posted 2012-12-26 20:50:50 and read 1955 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
it becomes a question of when you have the law in effect and when you don't

Doesn't have to become a question; the hours of the ban are posted on the sign. "NO TURN ON RED, 7am-9am AND 4pm-6pm," says one sign near where I live.

N1120A is right that the all-out ban on right-turns-on-red is inefficient. Laws designed to keep traffic moving aren't designed just to appease impatient motorists. They are designed to reduce traffic jams, emissions & wasting of fuel.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: KaiGywer
Posted 2012-12-27 18:31:09 and read 1854 times.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 32):
Doesn't have to become a question; the hours of the ban are posted on the sign. "NO TURN ON RED, 7am-9am AND 4pm-6pm," says one sign near where I live.

We have some linked to the traffic lights here. So if there is a left turn lane in the opposing direction of you (their left turn would put them on the same road as your right turn) with a controlled turn (arrow), there will be a "No turn on red" illuminated when that traffic has a green arrow.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-12-27 18:44:27 and read 1848 times.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 33):
We have some linked to the traffic lights here. So if there is a left turn lane in the opposing direction of you (their left turn would put them on the same road as your right turn) with a controlled turn (arrow), there will be a "No turn on red" illuminated when that traffic has a green arrow.

I have also seen them linked to crosswalk buttons before. If someone hits it to cross the street a no right turn sign will illuminate when the pedestrians have the clear to cross.

Topic: RE: NYC Right On Red
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-27 21:46:12 and read 1825 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
It is less efficient to not have right on red.

It is somewhat less efficient, yes. It is still not a big deal.

-Mir


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