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Topic: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-28 19:36:45 and read 1003 times.

Is this really allowed, and if it is, is it smart to do in the USA after 9/11?



Quote: http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38997

Muslim members of the University of California, Irvine's graduating class will wear green sashes emblazoned with the word "shahada" in Arabic along with their commencement robes in Saturday's ceremony – a reference some say is an incitement to violence that should not be allowed.

"Shahada" can be translated several ways, including as a declaration of faith in Islam, but it often is used in reference to "martyrdom" – especially martyrdom attained by suicide bombers.

Sally Peterson, dean of students at UCI, defended the university against critics who say the school shouldn't allow such a display.

Peterson admits the word "shahada," besides being a reference to Islam, "has also taken on many other meanings depending on where you sit. For some it is seen as 'kill all Jews' or it is seen as a reference to suicide bombers," she said.


Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: QR332
Posted 2004-08-28 19:40:08 and read 997 times.

Whats your point? Just being racist? You are so ignorant it scares me...

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-28 19:45:54 and read 993 times.

My point is it's just an official news article, so it's valid to ask if this practice is legal or not, since it would be illegal in Holland to show thiose signs at official ceremonies.

Why do they do this? There are also many Christians celebrating, they don't show religious signs.... respect and be respected....

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Air2gxs
Posted 2004-08-28 20:11:12 and read 977 times.

Yes it is legal. I'd be interested to see what would happen if a group of Christians decided to wear a symbol of their faith on their clothing or if some Jews did the same. More than likely they would be banned based on the supposed seperation of church and state. Oh well.



Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: David b.
Posted 2004-08-28 21:23:53 and read 968 times.

I agree with Sally Peterson. I also agree with QR332.

[Edited 2004-08-28 21:26:59]

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Air2gxs
Posted 2004-08-28 22:43:00 and read 955 times.

From http://www.kresanet.org/kalamazoo-academy/momar.htm :

"Shadada is believing that there is one god and Muhammad is his messenger. Saying Shadada is statement of faith and must be declared in public. When you declare Shadada you become a Muslim."

Apparently many people read that as a percursor to matyrdom. I read it for what it is; a statement of faith.

QR332,
What is ignorant about asking a question? It is not racist. In fact, in the current climate of suicide bombers, explosive vests, hi-jacked airliners, road-side bombs, etc., I feel it is a valid question and concern. I had a professor (economics) who told us that people who are afraid of questions are more frightened of the answers.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-28 23:35:32 and read 945 times.

Air2gxs,

Thank you for giving a normal answer to a normal question.
That makes you special here, not everybody can do that....

KL911

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: QR332
Posted 2004-08-29 00:25:27 and read 937 times.

Air2gxs,
What is ignorant about asking a question?

I wasn't referring to the question. I didn't get a chance to confront him about previous ignorant questions and racist remarks.

It is not racist. In fact, in the current climate of suicide bombers, explosive vests, hi-jacked airliners, road-side bombs, etc., I feel it is a valid question and concern.

There hasn't been one in ages, and what is racist is two threads posted together to discredit muslims.

I had a professor (economics) who told us that people who are afraid of questions are more frightened of the answers.

I'm not afraid of the questions: i'm sick of them.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-29 00:31:11 and read 936 times.

'''I had a professor (economics) who told us that people who are afraid of questions are more frightened of the answers

I'm not afraid of the questions: i'm sick of them.'''


That's why peace between Israel and the Arab world is so difficult. You guys never listen, and never have a positive answer. If you're sick of the questions, you'll never find the answer.......

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-29 01:34:11 and read 931 times.

'''I wasn't referring to the question. I didn't get a chance to confront him about previous ignorant questions and racist remarks.''''

Look who's talking......... The last few weeks it's only nonstop pro palestine stuff here.....

One more time: About the palestinians,

"FOLLOWING a visit to refugees in Gaza, a British diplomat reported the following: 'But while they express no bitterness against theJews...they speak with the utmost bitterness of the Egyptians and other Arab states: 'We know who our enemies are,' they will say, and they are referring to their Arab brothers who, they declare, persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes."

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Mdsh00
Posted 2004-08-29 01:39:33 and read 927 times.

I remember hearing about this back in June during graduation since UCLA is so close to UC Irvine. I found it interesting because there is a greater population of Muslims and Jews on my campus rather than theirs.

Either way, the Muslims that wore the sash would be allowed to do so because of freedom of speech. It can't be banned and separation of church and state can't be applied because the University hasn't given any preferrences. That being said, the Muslim students probably understood that they'd get a lot of shit from the public.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-29 01:44:35 and read 925 times.

'''QR332s, don't worry, the author of this thread has had a few of his posts deleted recently due to their 'discriminatory/racist' contents and I think the mods are aware of this'''

First of all that's not true, and second, I'm just asking a question if it's normal in the US after 9/11 to dress up like a suicide bomber on an official ceremony. To me that's unbelievable. That would never be allowed here.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Horus
Posted 2004-08-29 02:00:45 and read 921 times.

They are not wearing like suicide bombers. Al-Shadah is not related to martydom (get your facts right). Al-Shahada is the proclimation that 'There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed (PBUH) is the messenger of Allah".

Second point, yes you've had some posts deleted due to their 'discriminatory/racist' contents, because in the A.net chat room many members complained about your attitude to the mods, resulting in some of you posts getting deleted.

Horus

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-29 02:10:00 and read 916 times.

'''Second point, yes you've had some posts deleted due to their 'discriminatory/racist' contents, because in the A.net chat room many members complained about your attitude to the mods, resulting in some of you posts getting deleted.'''

If you believe everything that's said in a chat room.... None of my posts have been deleted in the last 2 months..  Laugh out loud

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Horus
Posted 2004-08-29 02:12:33 and read 915 times.

KL911, I suggested having your post deleted too, and guess what...2 days later it was gone. Can you explain to me what happened to it then Big grin

Horus

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Kl911
Posted 2004-08-29 02:26:50 and read 908 times.

It's 02.30AM, I'm going to the bar, talk to you later. Somehow I feel that oneday we'll find a solution. Never give up hope...

KL911

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: QR332
Posted 2004-08-29 12:15:23 and read 890 times.

That's why peace between Israel and the Arab world is so difficult. You guys never listen, and never have a positive answer. If you're sick of the questions, you'll never find the answer.......

Don't put words in my mouth: I am not sick of the actual conflict, im sick of arguing with the likes of you and RJPieces. He doesn't listen and neither do you.

Look who's talking......... The last few weeks it's only nonstop pro palestine stuff here.....

Thats bad? Also, i'm Palestinian, you expect me to post pro-Israeli stuff?

"FOLLOWING a visit to refugees in Gaza, a British diplomat reported the following: 'But while they express no bitterness against theJews...they speak with the utmost bitterness of the Egyptians and other Arab states: 'We know who our enemies are,' they will say, and they are referring to their Arab brothers who, they declare, persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes."

Your source? And I did say in the past that some places where abandoned because the leaders told them to, but the majority were forced out by terror gangs (e.g. Haganah). Also, many Palestinians are bitter to the Arab leaders, not the Arab populations. Oh - and if a small people think this way it doesn't mean they love Israel who actually stole their land.

First of all that's not true, and second, I'm just asking a question if it's normal in the US after 9/11 to dress up like a suicide bomber on an official ceremony. To me that's unbelievable. That would never be allowed here.

Dress up like a suicide bomber?! The shahada is said by every single Muslim, does that make us all suicide bombers? The Shahada is on Saudi's flag, are they a suicide bombing nation? Are all converts suicide bombers? This is Islam's symbol in a way, it most certainly is not a symbol of suicide bombers.

KL911, I suggested having your post deleted too, and guess what...2 days later it was gone. Can you explain to me what happened to it then

Typical Pro-Israeli thing to do - present the point then ignore it. What happened to it KL?

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: L-188
Posted 2004-08-29 16:25:05 and read 876 times.

Peterson admits the word "shahada," besides being a reference to Islam, "has also taken on many other meanings depending on where you sit. For some it is seen as 'kill all Jews' or it is seen as a reference to suicide bombers," she said.

Same deal with the confederate flag, for some it is a source of pride in the southern heritage, for others it is a hate symbol.

There is no difference between that flag and the sashes.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Prosimtec
Posted 2004-08-29 16:34:09 and read 873 times.

An abortion clinic bomber had a crucifix around his neck. Shall we consider that a dress code for terrorism? Shall we ban the wearing of a crucifix for that reason?

This is getting ridiculous!

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: QR332
Posted 2004-08-29 23:18:06 and read 856 times.

Peterson admits the word "shahada," besides being a reference to Islam, "has also taken on many other meanings depending on where you sit. For some it is seen as 'kill all Jews' or it is seen as a reference to suicide bombers," she said.

There not sashes - it is the shahada. Also, it has NOTHING to do with killing the Jews at all. You know what the Shahada is:

"There is no God but God, and Mohammed is his messenger"

Aha, I see where the part about Jews come in  Yeah sure

An abortion clinic bomber had a crucifix around his neck. Shall we consider that a dress code for terrorism? Shall we ban the wearing of a crucifix for that reason?

This is getting ridiculous!


Exactly what i'm trying to say.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Marco
Posted 2004-09-03 01:12:39 and read 806 times.

I'm not afraid of the questions: i'm sick of them.

Are you, as a Muslim, doing something so that people stop asking these questions?

Terrorists will not go away, they need to be dealth with. The moderates of the Middle East need to speak out.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: QR332
Posted 2004-09-03 11:40:10 and read 795 times.

Marco,
Yes, I am trying to do something to speak out about what Islam really is, but most people dont listen. And those who do, their opinion is quickly runined by things such as the Chechen hostages. Sigh.

Topic: RE: 'Martyrdom' Graduation Sashes Incite Violence?
Username: Marco
Posted 2004-09-04 22:56:38 and read 771 times.

Marco,
Yes, I am trying to do something to speak out about what Islam really is, but most people dont listen.


Most people don't care what Islam is about. Most people just want Islamic terrorists to disappear. I honestly cannot think of a country that hasn't been affected by these sub-humans. Only until then, will people open up their minds. Your duty is to stop the violence first and foremost.

And those who do, their opinion is quickly runined by things such as the Chechen hostages. Sigh.

and you wonder why? 200 children were starved, stripped and killed and the Arab world is doing nothing about it. Yet every time a Palestinian child dies, the whole world has to go into mourning.

BTW I'm not saying that it's right to kill a Palestinian child, in fact I'm sympathetic to their cause but I can't stand Arab hypocrisy.


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