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Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SlamClick
Posted 2005-07-12 20:24:27 and read 1440 times.

Unless provoked, I try to be polite about this, but engineers are really stupid!

Okay, they are heavily educated, perhaps over-educated, but I'm talking common sense. Just a couple of quick examples, though I can think of many:

1. The charger/converter for small personal electronic devices: The bulky transformer or whatever goes IN THE MIDDLE of the cord, not at one end or the other. At the AC end it blocks all the other plugs in the outlet. At the other end it limits the ways you can set up your recharging station. If I can see this YOU can see this. Boneheads!

2. I just bought a bench grinder.
Won't mention any names because I'm not here to flame them (Black & Decker) When it came time to mount the unit to my workbench I found that it had a cast base with two mounting holes. The holes were DEAD CENTER under the shaft of the motor/arbor shaft for the wheels. There is NO WAY to get a ratchet wrench onto the bolts. Would it have killed you to put them at the corners? I had to use a 12-point box-end wrench and could only get a half a flat at a time. Dolts!

Just a note here to Black & Decker; I can still take it back and buy one made in China!


Okay, mechanics and tradesmen, submit your gripes. Engineers, defend your profession if you dare pop your heads up.

Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-12 20:32:14 and read 1426 times.

Would that be a Design Engineer or a Manufacturing Engineer that your chiding at? OR, could it be one of the cost-cutting accountants fiddling with the drawings to save a penny here and there..... Think about it.

Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Newark777
Posted 2005-07-12 20:33:42 and read 1426 times.

Well, I'm just going to be a freshman engineering major this fall, so I'm not quite an engineer yet.  Wink

Harry

Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2005-07-12 20:40:00 and read 1420 times.

I know in college the engineers were the least pleasant people to be around, on so many levels--one of the many reasons I switched to economics.

Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: CaptOveur
Posted 2005-07-12 20:53:01 and read 1398 times.

It is the damn bean counters tying the hands of the engineers.

The engineers know the design sucks, but the accountants have come up with a magic number for what the device is supposed to cost and they force the engineers to come to that magic number.. this results in compromises.

Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2005-07-12 20:56:34 and read 1396 times.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 4):
It is the damn bean counters tying the hands of the engineers.

Well if you want to finish that to its logical end, it's the damn consumers who won't pay more for quality  Wink

Topic: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Navymidn
Posted 2005-07-12 21:04:37 and read 1385 times.

Hey, not all engineers fall into the stereotypes. I am a student of Land Survey Engineering at Purdue Univ. I have a life, friends, and no pocket protector. I spend less time at a computer than any of my fellow engineering students. However, I do laugh at Dilbert, and can point out characteristics of my friends in the strips.

CaptOveur, I agree with you. It is usually not the engineer's fault, but the fault of someone who thinks that the unit can be made cheaper. As one of my professors said, there was a time when engineers ruled the world. Then, everything cost more, but lasted forever. Now, accountants rule. Everything is cheaper, but needs to be replaced faster.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Logan22L
Posted 2005-07-12 21:20:48 and read 1361 times.

Quoting Navymidn (Reply 6):
Everything is cheaper, but needs to be replaced faster.

And of course, this plays into corporate hands, particularly in the electronics field, where last year's advances are obsolete within a short time, so you've got to go out and replace the piece of junk you bought with the latest new improvement.

I still think it wouldn't have cost any more design/production capital to put the bolt holes in the corner of SlamClick's bench grinder, though.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: WrenchBender
Posted 2005-07-12 21:25:44 and read 1350 times.

As a technician I tend to agree with Slam Click. I have often heard 'why the #!@8$ did they put that there/that way etc.' when working on aircraft. The old adage about Engineers designing it, Technologists building it and Technicians making it work really appears to be true at times.
Now my dad is an Engineer/Technologist, when he started out he apprenticed for 2 years before doing the schooling, this I think makes a better product. Not like these days of straight classroom and no practical application of engineering theory.

WrenchBender

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: MD-90
Posted 2005-07-12 23:17:02 and read 1316 times.

Why is a land surveyor an engineer? That doesn't really make sense to me. Don't you have to design things to be an engineer?

Maybe it's just a Purdue thing (fine engineering school).

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: AC_A340
Posted 2005-07-12 23:20:22 and read 1311 times.

Damn engineers, they should just stick to driving trains Big grin

You can always tell who an engineer is because they are the only people that would spend ninety minutes trying to fix a $3 radio

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-12 23:46:25 and read 1292 times.

What do engineers use as their primary birth control method?















Their personalities!

 stirthepot   Wink

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Navymidn
Posted 2005-07-13 00:06:23 and read 1281 times.

MD-90, a land surveyor is not necessarily an engineer. In my case, I will be a land survey engineer. The reason for it being I will (hopefully) have enough knowledge of general engineering to be licensed as a Professional Engineer, giving me the ability to legally do things like approve plans and such. Also, the way we see engineering, is we are taking science and applying it to life. Land survey engineers design surveys, and also design and work with systems like GPS. It is kind of a complicated set-up, and we are considered the least engineer-like engineers. It mostly has to do with education, and the fact that I take the same basic engineering courses as most other civil engineers (we are a branch of that department). I don't think I have explained too clearly, I don't quite grasp some of the differences myself. I think it has a lot to do with the licensing. But I can tell you this: LSE's make more money and are in higher demand than ordinary land surveyors.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-13 00:08:23 and read 1279 times.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
What do engineers use as their primary birth control method?

......and all this time I thought the ladies were on the pill..............

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Navymidn
Posted 2005-07-13 00:11:53 and read 1276 times.

Yeah, yeah, DL021. Big talk, from someone who relied on engineers to be right about stresses  Smile . Seriously though, I am in the minority of engineering students with a girlfriend, so I don't really care.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-13 00:18:44 and read 1269 times.

I am speaking as an engineer myself!

12B1P Combat Engineer. I mostly jumped out of airplanes and blew crap up, though, and did not often build or design things, so I was not as personality impaired as some I could name.  Wink

I wondered how long it would take Aerobalance to respond to this.......he seems to actually have a decent sense of humor so I wonder if he's really an engineer or if he simply knows all the songs.  Big grin

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2005-07-13 00:20:12 and read 1266 times.

Why do women like mechanics as boyfriends?






Manual dexterity!  Big grin


And always somebody around to fix things!

Jan

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-13 00:27:46 and read 1258 times.

I've been workin' on the railroad,
All the live long day.
I've been workin' on the railroad,
Just to pass the time away.
Don't you hear the whistle blowing?
Rise up so early in the morn.
Don't you hear the captain shouting
"Dinah, blow your horn?"

Dinah, won't you blow,
Dinah, won't you blow,
Dinah, won't you blow your horn?
Dinah, won't you blow,
Dinah, won't you blow,
Dinah, won't you blow your horn?

Someone's in the kitchen with Dinah.
Someone's in the kitchen, I know.
Someone's in the kitchen with Dinah
Strumming on the old banjo.

Fee, fie, fiddle-e-i-o.
Fee, fie, fiddle-e-i-o-o-o-o.
Fee, fie, fiddle-e-i-o.
Strumming on the old banjo.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-13 00:30:40 and read 1251 times.

Something evil's watching over you
Comin' from the sky above
And there's nothing you can do

Prepare to strike
There'll be no place to run
When your caught within the grip
Of the evil Unicron

Transformers
More than meets the eye
Transformers
Robots in Disguise

Strong enough to break the bravest heart
So we have to pull together
We can't stay worlds apart

To stand divided we will surely fall
Until our darkest hour
When the light will save us all

Transformers
More than meets the eye
Transformers
Robots in Disguise
Transformers

Autobots wage their Battle
To destroy the evil forces
Of the Decepticons

It's judgment day and now we've made our stand
And now the powers of darkness
Have been driven from our land

The Battle's over but the war has just begun
And this way it will remain til the day when all are one

Transformers
Transformers
Transformers
Transformers
More than meets the eye

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: A346Dude
Posted 2005-07-13 00:32:07 and read 1248 times.

A Post Wherein I Flame Pilots

OK, they are heavily trained, perhaps over-trained, but pilots are really stupid!

1. Why is it that when an airplane is on short final with low fuel, the other plane is sitting on the runway preparing for takeoff like he had all the time in the world, forcing the other plane to go around!? What are the pilots doing in there, it's not like it's hard to push the throttles forward and pull back on the yoke when the numbers get high enough!

2. How come every flight I take is delayed at the gate? The pilots are probably up in the pointy end chatting up a storm! Don't they understand that some of us have connections to make? Pipe down and do your job already!

A346Dude (Going into aerospace engineering next year )

All in good fun SlamClick 

[Edited 2005-07-13 00:34:46]

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Daedaeg
Posted 2005-07-13 00:37:03 and read 1244 times.

BOOOOOOO @ this thread. How dare you people speak ill of our profession. You just hate because you want to be us. Admit it.  blockhead 

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-13 00:51:02 and read 1229 times.

Marching Cadence / The Engineer Song
(sing to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic)
Chorus:
We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers.
We can, we can, we can, we can demolish 40 beers.
Drink up, drink up, drink up, drink up and come along with us
Cause we dont give a damn about any old man who dont give a damn about us!

My father was a miner in the upper Malamute
My mother was a hostess in a house of ill repute.
They kicked me out of house and home, but in my tender years
So I told em all to go to hell and joined the Engineers!

Godiva was a lady who through Coventry did ride.
Showing all the villagers her lovely lilly hide.
The most observant fellow was a Engineer of course,
Hes the only one that noticed that Godiva rode a horse!

(Chorus)

"I've come a long long way" she said, "and go as long and far"
With the man who'll help me off my horse and to a bar.
The men who helped her off her horse and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary eyed suveyor and a drunken Engineer!

(chorus)

A tanker and a Engineer were drinkin from a can,
The tanker to the Engineer "Out drink me if you can!".
The tanker took one drink and then he started turning green,
But the Engineer kept drinking it was only gasoline!

(chorus)

The Air Force and the Navy came to town to have some fun,
Down into the taverns where the fiery liquors run.
But all they found was broken glass, the Engineers had come.
The traded junk filled demo bags for gallon kegs of rum!

(chorus)

Now Venus was a statue made entirely of stone.
Not a fig leaf on her, she was naked to the bone.
And seeing that her arms were gone, two Engineers discoursed,
"Of course the damn things broken,and it should be reinforced"

(chorus)

Ceaser went to Egypt at the age of 53,
Cleopatra's blood was warm,her heart was young and it was free
But every night when Julie left the house at 3 o'clock,
There was a Roman Engineer awaiting just around the block!

(chorus)

Sir Francis Drake and all his men set out for Misery Bay,
They heard the Spanish Rum Fleet was a headin' out that way.
But the Engineers had bet them by a night and half a day,
And though as drunk as hooligans you could still here them say

(chorus)

We lay down all their roling roads,we cut down all their trees
And if the orders ever come, we'd forge the raging seas.
When ever they want to sleep a while, we put them up a town,
And we build the blasted bridges so the Infantry wont drown!

(chorus)

We put them over rivers and across the mountains streems,
Do everything but tuck them in, and wish them pleasant dreams.
When the goings really tough, and bombs do burst their ears,
The whole divisions quick to say, "GOD SEND THE ENGINEERS!"

(chorus)

We build and blow your bridges and fix your roads up, too.
There aren't too many things in life an Engineer cant do.
You never seem to need us till your minds are full of fear,
Then the first thing that you call for are the Combat Engineer

(chorus)

We build and guard your barriers, we build your bunkers too.
And each and every we prove what Engineers can do.
For in the thick of every fight, the cry has been for years,
"Come clear the path, save our ass, you Combat Engineers!!!"

(chorus)


You may feel free to sing that one tonight over beer if you toast the Sappers of the US Army Combat Engineers as well as the Naval Construction Battalions (by whom the difficult is done immediately, and the impossible taking a bit longer), the USAF Engineering squadrons and the civilian contractors who work in danger zones around the world in order to make it difficult on the enemy and clear and pave the way for our soldiers.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-13 01:08:14 and read 1212 times.

Ian,

People actually know the Engineer Song? Word for word? They need a life!

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2005-07-13 01:24:51 and read 1197 times.

Ian,

I like this song! (Having been a Civil Defense Heavy Rescue Engineer myself!) Big grin

Thanks!

Jan

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Logan22L
Posted 2005-07-13 01:26:40 and read 1197 times.

Aerobalance, you don't sound so terribly busy tonight!  Wink

I went to an engineering school (Worcester Polytechnic Institute), but majored in chemistry. I then got a Master's in Civil & Environmental Engineering, but, for God's sake, I'm a scientist, NOT an engineer.

There were serious consequences at WPI for a scientist. I was one of only about 100 non-engineering majors. Here's a classic engineering SNAFU:

Homecoming, 1983: We're awaiting over 200 alumni, and someone decides to make spiked apple cider, perfect for an October weekend. Well, the three guys who take charge of this project are all Chem Enges, that is Chemical Engineering majors. They mull the cider, throw in all the cinammon and shit, you know how it goes. They get the mixture up to a nice simmer. We're talking about ~5-10 gallons of stock, my friends.

Anyway, they had a bunch of grain alcohol (I will not confess how they got it, although I will weakly assert that I had nothing to do with it). So meanwhile, after checking on them, I wander off to have a smoke (this is 1983, after all), and I get back and I say "where's all the grain?" Meanwhile, the room smelled like a distillery, and lighting a match would have had some bad consequences.

"It's in the cider," was the reply.

"Taste it," I asserted.

"Kind of weak," was the reply.

"What's the boiling point of ethanol," I asked?

".......................oh motherf**ker."

Engineers are so ready to put things to market, they don't even realize what right and wrong may be.  Wink

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-13 02:34:20 and read 1187 times.

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 22):
Ian,

People actually know the Engineer Song? Word for word? They need a life!

Yes, and it's kind of like the Star Spangled Banner where you pretty much need to hear it to remember the words (or be at a ball game).....you need beer to really do it right!

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 23):
I like this song! (Having been a Civil Defense Heavy Rescue Engineer myself!)

Thanks!

You're welcome, and to the list of toastees please add all the UXO engineers everywhere!

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 24):
I went to an engineering school (Worcester Polytechnic Institute),

Is that a step above or below the Sam Houston Institute of Teknogy?

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 24):
but majored in chemistry.

Is that because you couldn't do the math?

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 24):
I then got a Master's in Civil & Environmental Engineering, but, for God's sake, I'm a scientist, NOT an engineer.

Is that like getting a medical administration degree from the St Johns Med School in Grenada?

 Wink

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 24):
".......................oh motherf**ker."

Famous and common last words for engineers of all stripes!  Big grin

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Lehpron
Posted 2005-07-13 02:59:37 and read 1176 times.

Engineers don't make decisions in a company, otherwise Boeing would have pushed their first version 787 with the sharktail. As said by others, costs are everything. The boss will ask for a preliminary analysis of 'what can we do'.

This report will have guidelines and it is your job to do the best with what you have. But then I hope you have inputed you experience with products to the company so they may alter their future products...? If you don't say anything you'll get the same shit next time, i.e. you did not demand change.

Last year, I read a customer review on CNET of a Lexmar 128meg USB stick that I ended up purchasing even though this person gave a bad mark. It was the secure version with the durability claim. It was designed to be dropped or steped on. Apparently this person said they may have brought it near a large magnet and accuse the product of "poor engineering" when the device's memory was erased.

 irked 

My own personal views (which goes against the modern view) are that there are instances where the customer IS NOT always right. This person was so ill-informed or uneducated with regards to what a magnet can do to electronics that I don't give a rats ass for his/her complaint.

Had this person asked why it happened rather than make the assumption of poor engineering, then maybe I would not be so unforgiving at their percieved self infliction.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-13 03:10:41 and read 1170 times.

And the above post by an aspiring engineer is exactly WTF I'm talking about.

Anyone actually figure all that out and what it had to do with the original topic other than as a proof?!

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: BaylorAirBear
Posted 2005-07-13 03:26:44 and read 1160 times.

SlamClick, for your bench grinder you put the bolts in through the bottom and the nuts on top. Just a suggestion.

BaylorAirBear

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-13 03:36:05 and read 1154 times.

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 28):
SlamClick, for your bench grinder you put the bolts in through the bottom and the nuts on top. Just a suggestion.

BaylorAirBear

please tell me it's that simple.......the karmic resonance will be too funny

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SlamClick
Posted 2005-07-13 04:40:52 and read 1141 times.

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 28):
SlamClick, for your bench grinder you put the bolts in through the bottom and the nuts on top. Just a suggestion.

Love to but my work bench is SEVEN INCHES thick.

Old piece of GluLam beam.

I have the grinder lagscrewed to a 2x6 which I clamp to the bench when I need it.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: CaptOveur
Posted 2005-07-13 04:51:48 and read 1130 times.

What do you call an Engineer who can't do calculus?


An Accountant


Or in my case... Me (A soon to be accountant)

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Logan22L
Posted 2005-07-13 04:52:58 and read 1128 times.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 25):
Is that because you couldn't do the math?

Damn you, Ian. I can do ordinary math, but partial differential equations are my downfall. I'm a chemist because I love it. It's totally like learning a language.

Oh, BTW, lick my a$$

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: YooYoo
Posted 2005-07-13 04:54:51 and read 1126 times.

And to think you were slamming structural engineers.

I was about to lay a verbal beating on you.  Wink

Carry on with your bashing.

And just a side note....Rather an Engineer than an Architect.  Wink

Artsy fartsy know-nothings!!


Andreas  spin 

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Logan22L
Posted 2005-07-13 05:07:30 and read 1121 times.

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 33):
Rather an Engineer than an Architect

"This is a 12-story block combining classical neo-Georgian features with the efficiency of modern techniques. The tenants arrive here and are carried along the corridor on a conveyor belt in extreme comfort, past murals depicting Mediterranean scenes, towards the rotating knives. The last twenty feet of the corridor are heavily soundproofed. The blood pours down these chutes and the mangled flesh slurps into these..."

"Mind you, this is a real beaut. None of your blood caked on the walls and flesh flying out of the windows incommoding the passers-by with this one."

"Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement, you whining hypocritical toadies with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding masonic secret handshakes. You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards"

Damn, an architect has it not so well, eh?

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: BaylorAirBear
Posted 2005-07-13 05:21:14 and read 1117 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 30):
I have the grinder lagscrewed to a 2x6 which I clamp to the bench when I need it.

Same solution just countersink the bolts, but no need to complicate it if you have an idea that works. Kudos for finding a solution. I am obsessive/compulsive so I would've wasted good time making it perfect and pretty (not to say that your work lacks anything). Smile

BaylorAirBear

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-13 06:18:29 and read 1108 times.

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 26):
Engineers don't make decisions in a company

That is a dead-ass wrong statement. Test Engineers in the wind tunnel, using instruments that I produce and working in conjuction with their Aerodynamicists, determined that the current configuration (no shark tail, cone empennage) produces the best performance..... Thank goodness illustrators' don't run the Boeing Company, sh*t would be falling out of the sky, providing they're able depart the runway...

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: OzLAME
Posted 2005-07-13 06:46:48 and read 1102 times.

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 26):
Engineers don't make decisions in a company,

Yes they do, at least in my experience of Aeronautical Engineers when I have done mods on aircraft. They decide to Ignore The Experienced Maintenance Guy Doing the Work and that It Can't Be Done That Way. They then decide to Design A Clever Engineer's Way that will add complexity and degrade access and continuing serviceability. After that they decide to Charge A Fortune for the crappy design. I swear, most of the ones I used to work with were so ill-equipped for life they needed to sit down to piss.

(that ought to do it) devil 

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-07-13 07:01:29 and read 1090 times.

As an electrician, I'd like to string up the idiot that designed the head of a screw to accept a slotted, phillips, AND square drive driver. Guess what....there's so many slits, holes, and slots in the head that NOTHING works to really tighten the screw.



Mark

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: CaptOveur
Posted 2005-07-13 07:07:44 and read 1086 times.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 38):
I'd like to string up the idiot that designed the head of a screw to accept a slotted, phillips, AND square drive driver.

RHAAAAAAA I hate those things too... They always end up looking the same after I am done with them... stripped.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Lehpron
Posted 2005-07-13 08:33:07 and read 1068 times.

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 36):
That is a dead-ass wrong statement.



Quoting OzLAME (Reply 37):
Yes they do, at least in my experience of Aeronautical Engineers when I have done mods on aircraft

While that should make me feel better, it also does not.

It is good to hear because I am an ambitious entrepreneur and bad because I am an ambitious entrepreneur. I do not mind taking risks to learn from them, though I am sure companies do as do their shareholders. I am not trying to change a company, I just do not want to do what has been done for decades, and it is boring. That was the impression I got from Boeing, Lockheed, and Northrop representatives at a career fair at my school last semester. Talking with them gave me the impression of distaste for vision (as if they were not interested in new things). I got the impression they wanted a "cookie-cut graduate".

(Only one company brought my spirits up, it was an engine company; the rep had a positive attitude, as if he was trying to purchase me! CDI Aerospace? I do not remember. I wish I did.)

I honestly hope I am wrong; I want to be in this particular. As far as I can tell, as a rookie graduate, a company will tell me what to do (within set guidelines). I donno, soon I will know what you folks are talking about then.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Oly720man
Posted 2005-07-13 11:29:09 and read 1049 times.

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 36):
Thank goodness illustrators' don't run the Boeing Company,

In a similar vein, we did some wind tunnel tests on a train for DB (the ICE3) and there were 2 drive cars to be tested, one designed by the stylist and one by the aerodynamicist (what he didn't know about trains didn't need to be known) and although the aerodynamic train was better the company still went with the stylist's design. They must have spent more money on the graphics than the tunnel tests or something.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
What do engineers use as their primary birth control method?

Got 2 kids, so I must need a new personality.


To go back to the original topic, I think that part of the problem is that the designers aren't the end users so they won't pick up the design faults that are really annoying.

I had a problem with my Renault Megane. The headlight front lens had a crack in it so it needed replacing. All the bolts were easily accessible, apart from one that could only be got to by taking the front bumper off the car. Why didn't anyone pick up on this in design? I think this was remedied in later versions.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2005-07-13 12:04:43 and read 1041 times.

I hate most car designs as well. Most cars are designed to be easy and cheap to assemble on the assembly line, but suck in maintenence access. E.g. the timing belt on my car is overdue. The belt and the pressure roller cost together maybe $20, but since you have to dismantle the whole front of the car (grill, radiator etc.) for access and you'll need a special tool to remove the pulley off the crankshaft it costs about $300 in labour to change it.

Then, why do car designers insist on using all the hollow torque box designs in the car bodies? These are the areas where corrosion starts, because the small drain holes provided to drain the condensation are often located in places where dirt from the wheels gets thrown up and clogs them.
In aircraft design closed structures are avoided, if possible, so that you can always have access to control the inside, if it is not possible, there will be a stressed, removable inspection and access panel installed.

Jan

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Fokker Lover
Posted 2005-07-13 16:34:25 and read 1012 times.

You'll have to have an open mind, and pretend for a minute that an engineer could even get a woman to look at him, to make this story even remotely believable.

A hundred years ago an engineer was tired of playing with his slide rule. He went home to see what his woman was cooking for dinner. (So he could complain about how wrongly she was doing it). When he arrived, he heard a wailing and moaning that were something like he had never heard before. He thought that a wildebeast was rummaging through his house. In an effort to save his design drawings, he burst through the door. There on the livingroom floor, he found his woman. She was bare assed naked with her legs spread high. On top of her was a mechanic. The mechanic turned the lovely lass inside out, and thrashed her 6 ways to Tuesday. The sweet thang had never felt that good in her life. She left the engineer and ran off with the mechanic. Thus preventing any engineer from ever getting married again. The engineer swore his revenge, and enlisted the help of all his fellow and future engineers.

To this day no mechanics job will ever be made easy. The next time you are armpit deep in a pylon, bleeding from various punctures, holding a wrench with the tips of your fingers, swearing at the geek of an engineer for not putting in another access panel, remember my mechanic brothers, we brought it on to ourselves. For having the ability to get laid.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: WrenchBender
Posted 2005-07-13 16:48:41 and read 1000 times.

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 37):
Yes they do, at least in my experience of Aeronautical Engineers when I have done mods on aircraft. They decide to Ignore The Experienced Maintenance Guy Doing the Work and that It Can't Be Done That Way. They then decide to Design A Clever Engineer's Way that will add complexity and degrade access and continuing serviceability. After that they decide to Charge A Fortune for the crappy design. I swear, most of the ones I used to work with were so ill-equipped for life they needed to sit down to piss.

I am glad to hear I am not the only one who sees this happen.

WrenchBender

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2005-07-13 18:07:14 and read 981 times.

Any Pics of both Equipment.Maybe We can think out a Solution.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: StarAC17
Posted 2005-07-14 02:51:47 and read 951 times.

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 33):
And just a side note....Rather an Engineer than an Architect.

Artsy fartsy know-nothings!!

Damn right YooYoo. Also I think that penny-pinching accountants know not to fuck with the structural engineer's design because if you cut corners it can actually cost lives where as a mechanical engineer can be told to makes a car that lasts 5 years instead of 10 and as long as its safe the penny-pinchers can get away with it and take their extra vacation. I'm going into my 3rd year of Enviromental Engineering btw and aspiring engineers this is where the $$ is because someone has to deal with this smog/pollution problem that has been a big issue in YYZ and other cities.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SlamClick
Posted 2005-07-14 17:03:47 and read 913 times.

Well, the evolution of this thread has been most interesting. I attacked engineers on how well they do their job. Most of the other assaults have been on their personalities. (some of which seems warranted)

The engineers mostly have used extremely complex products like airliners to shift the blame elsewhere. We who are not engineers know that the B-777 is not the product of ONE engineer's mind. Let's get back to simple products, like AC/DC adaptors and bench grinders.

Fact is, I could design a base for a bench grinder. If I did I'd put the holes for the mounting bolts at the corners where they will remain accessible. That way the package would not even need the cute little paper template for marking the hole pattern.

Fact is, I could also build the mold pattern and cast one myself. I just wouldn't know how many myrianewtons per femtohectare of torque load it could withstand. I would know that it will still be intact when I die unless I drop something very heavy on it. That is enough for me.

I just don't want to build my own. I paid retail for a product from a well-known and, as far as I know, respected manufacturer. For the very reasonable price, it was their job to design it properly. Let's face it guys, this was not a difficult concept. The holes were intended to recieve mounting bolts, otherwise they'd not even have been there. Bolts require tightening. That dictates that you must be able to turn a wrench in that space. No, the reason the holes are along the centerline is this: The symmetry appealed to an anal-retentive pedant.

It would even have been stronger against the rotational force with the motor running if one hole was in front and the other in back instead of both along the shaft centerline. Sorry guys: well educated but not smart.

Engineers, some of your peers, working for household name companies have made a bonehead error. If I made one of comparable magnitude in my profession it would be on the order of this; I was about to land with the wheels UP and an engineer had to come along and explain to me why it was better to put them DOWN.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-14 17:13:53 and read 905 times.

Slam....I make fun of engineers because their personalities, in many cases, not all (Aerobalance seems to be an exception to the rule) cause them to focus on the complexities and finding elegant mathematical solutions for problems that simply require a good and quick fix that will allow the product to be effectively used and easily maintained.

Patton had it right when he said that a good plan, violently executed right now, is better than a perfect plan next week. Many engineers I have met are people that would rather time the evaporation of a puddle of water rather than mop it up so that nobody slips on it.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: BaylorAirBear
Posted 2005-07-14 17:19:03 and read 903 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 47):
The symmetry appealed to an anal-retentive pedant.

Form follows function. Thinking otherwise is a career ending switch. You admittedly don't know how many myrianewtons per femtohectare of torque load it could withstand. Neither do I, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt since they are a "well-known...respected manufacturer." However it is entirely possible that some poor engineer can't find work now because he put mounting holes in an inconvenient spot.  Smile

BaylorAirBear

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-14 18:02:05 and read 887 times.

Here is what I make.

http://windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/balcallab/taskbalance.html


Any reason why I should not pay attention to detail? BTW, they take 5-6 mos. to produce and come with a 75 page stress analysis report, done by hand and calculator by yours truly...

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Logan22L
Posted 2005-07-14 18:12:54 and read 886 times.

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 50):
Here is what I make.

http://windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/balc....html

OK, Aerobalance, I just read your link, and I have two questions:

1. What in the hell is that?

2. Where are the mounting holes? Wink

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-07-14 18:42:11 and read 878 times.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 51):
What in the hell is that?

Force, and moment, measuring device.

Mounting holes are on the sting end of the balance. Really, they are.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SATL382G
Posted 2005-07-14 18:43:38 and read 878 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Thread starter):
1. The charger/converter for small personal electronic devices: The bulky transformer or whatever goes IN THE MIDDLE of the cord, not at one end or the other. At the AC end it blocks all the other plugs in the outlet. At the other end it limits the ways you can set up your recharging station. If I can see this YOU can see this. Boneheads!

The real problem here is why is the power supply seperate from the device? Reason: The LAWYERS want it to be UL approved. The ACCOUNTANTS want it cheap. How do you get it UL approved cheaply? Make the power supply seperate from the device and usable by a number of products. Voila!! We now have the "wall wart"

It gets worse. The MARKETING people want to put the device on the international market. Which means coping with 110V or 220V and various plug designs. Now the cheap, UL approved, power supply has to auto switch and provide for switchable plugs/cords.

What would have been a one piece device now consists of three, easily lost, pieces thanks to the lawyers, accountants, and marketing people. I don't think the engineers have any say in the matter.....

regards

[Edited 2005-07-14 18:45:57]

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: LeanOfPeak
Posted 2005-07-14 18:50:40 and read 872 times.

Logan, simply put, it's a device to measure the forces and moments on a wind tunnel model.

Can't help you on the mounting holes.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SlamClick
Posted 2005-07-14 19:43:32 and read 855 times.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 53):
The real problem here is why is the power supply seperate from the device? Reason: The LAWYERS want it to be UL approved. The ACCOUNTANTS want it cheap. How do you get it UL approved cheaply? Make the power supply seperate from the device and usable by a number of products. Voila!! We now have the "wall wart"

It gets worse. The MARKETING people want to put the device on the international market. Which means coping with 110V or 220V and various plug designs. Now the cheap, UL approved, power supply has to auto switch and provide for switchable plugs/cords.

What would have been a one piece device now consists of three, easily lost, pieces thanks to the lawyers, accountants, and marketing people. I don't think the engineers have any say in the matter.....

Sorry pard, I'm not buying it. (Except for the part about "wall mart"  Smile)
The problem is simpler than they try to make it.

As engineers designed it.

[Appliance]_______________________[current adapter/plug]=


As it should be.

[Appliance]___________[current adapter]___________[= (plug)


Engineer's way, perhaps only ONE item can be plugged into a wall outlet.
My way, two items can be plugged into a wall outlet as God and another engineer intended.
It is so bad that some of the adapters I own actually cover BOTH sockets on the wall outlet.

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-07-14 19:48:20 and read 849 times.

Tony....thanks....I wanted to know more about your products and now I do.

I know more about what I don't know and alot more about how math and big words give me a serious headache.

 Wink

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: Logan22L
Posted 2005-07-14 19:49:45 and read 848 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 30):
Love to but my work bench is SEVEN INCHES thick.

That's nothin'. Superfly's is NINE INCHES thick.  Wink

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: BaylorAirBear
Posted 2005-07-14 19:59:11 and read 846 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 55):
As it should be.


[Appliance]___________[current adapter]___________[= (plug)

That's how my laptop cord is. Also, most accessories I use in aquaria are the same. I have no idea why they can't all be this way. At least some now are situating the "wall wart" horizontally so that an outlet will usually accommodate two plugs, but then you're screwed if you have something like a six way outlet. Damned if you do...

BaylorAirBear

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SATL382G
Posted 2005-07-14 20:23:57 and read 835 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 55):
Sorry pard, I'm not buying it. (Except for the part about "wall mart" )
The problem is simpler than they try to make it.

You're missing the point. Make the power supply integral to the device:

As engineers designed it.


[Appliance/power supply]_______________________[cord/plug]=

The only power supplies I've seen mid-cord are the ones that must allow for a changeable plug. The rest all get made on the cheap with the power supply at the wall end to allow a close fit to the device at the other.

[Edited 2005-07-14 20:27:50]

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SlamClick
Posted 2005-07-14 20:35:40 and read 828 times.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 59):
You're missing the point. Make the power supply integral to the device:

What if I don't want a two pound transformer to be part of my digital camera?

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: SATL382G
Posted 2005-07-14 20:57:30 and read 818 times.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
What if I don't want a two pound transformer to be part of my digital camera?

 Smile well ok that probably wouldn't work terribly well for personal electronics.

However it would work great for peripherals supporting my desktop PC, battery chargers, model railroad equip., etc.

I should add that the reason they tend not to make one-piece power supplies with the transformer mid cord is cost. Since you don't want the cord supporting the weight of the transformer, you need enough cord on either side to allow the floor to support the weight which requires more cord. A "wall wart" only needs enough cord to go from outlet to desktop device.
Might seem trivial but for a $5 power supply that costs $1.50 to make, .05 cents worth of cord makes a difference.

I'm not an engineer. Just a avid consumer of model railroad electronics (which all run with seperate power supplies now) who has asked manufacturers of said equipment why they don't build power supplies into their equipment anymore.  Smile

Topic: RE: A Thread Wherein I Flame Engineers
Username: UAL Bagsmasher
Posted 2005-07-14 21:00:53 and read 817 times.

The location of the FCU on the #2 engine of a CRJ-200 comes to mind...


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