Mrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1674 times:
I have read a post or two here, extolling the "wonderful job" Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela. I know he sent a huge number of Cuban doctors to Venezuele, and am curious to hear-from Venezuelans ( or nearby neighbors) how that is working out.
MIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 862 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1625 times:
I know many Cuban doctors that work in Venezuela and they are extremely well prepared and they are provided with the equipment and products they need.
I know there may be people that disagree with my assertion. At least the Cuban doctors I KNOW from Barquisimeto, Valencia and Maturin, I am positive they are doing a good job.
And about those pictures of hospitals in Cuba...I have seen much worse in pre-Chavez Venezuela and I imagine some hospitals in Mexico are the same.
Cuban medicine is still very advanced, I have family involved in all stages of the medical process from; rank & file doctors and nurses, directors of hospitals and medical researchers. They say they face problems, but they do the best they can.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 4): Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 3):
Don't show that to Superfly...you might get him reaallllly upset.
Not need to worry. He knows that is just propaganda! The evil Bush is the one to be blamed for the "fake" pics.
Isn't it wonderful how some people get all upset when the right-wing politicians they support are called out on human rights violations, but have the greatest fun chastising left-wing politicians for the same thing? I agree Castro is a criminal, but someone who wouldn't hesitate one second to bash Human Rights Watch if they were criticising the US gov't quoting a website that mentions the exact same HRW is nothing short of hypocritical.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1598 times:
Cubans doctors perform forced labor in Venezuela. 21st century slavery. They are forced to work where no one would dare to work. They live in awful conditions but they have no choice. I'm sure that if Cuba had a democratic govt., they wouldn't be here.
I like the fact that they are close to the poorest communities, but please, why does a profesional with more than 5 years of univeristy studies has to live in such poor conditions? And don't tell me they do it because they like it... they are forced to work there, period. Many of them have requested assylum in different embassies here in Caracas.
The cubans are also often ill-equipped as every hospital here in Venezuela has been since 1980s. They often prescribe drugs that have been banned in many countries because of dangerous side effects. Also, there has been many cases where people arrive intoxicated to hospitals after taking medication prescribed from a cuban doctor. Nevertheless, I'm sure there must be some positive cases where patients recover from illness, but cuban medicine isn't the best thing invented after the wheel.
By the way... the cuban doctors are paid in hard currency USD cash. Meanwhile, Venezuelan doctors are paid in Venezuelan bolivares which is not convertible, so it is worthless outside venezuelan territory.
Quoting MIA" class=quote target=_blank>MIA (Reply 5): And about those pictures of hospitals in Cuba...I have seen much worse in pre-Chavez Venezuela and I imagine some hospitals in Mexico are the same.
MIA, I Don't think neither of us has seen pre-Chavez hospitals. If you are 20, then you were 15 by the time chavez got elected. Were you into comparing public hospitals while you were a kid? What I know is that I've always seen in the news since I was a kid is that there's always lack of medicine at the hospitals. Chavez arrived and nothing has changed, it is the same shit all over again, but worse.
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
MIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 862 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1591 times:
Okay, Cuban doctors get paid 350 mil bolivares (in US or Venezuelan currency I dont know but they get 350 mil) and Venezuelan doctors that participate in the same program get paid 750 mil bolivares.
I know those Cuban doctors dont live in palaces, but they live better than many of the people they live around. Luis, the next time I goto Venezuela, I invite you to come with me to meet the Cuban doctors I know, so you can see for yourself how they live, and how they do their work. The fiance of a cousin of mine (who is REALLY hot by the way) works in some ghetto of Valencia, thats closest to Caracas so you can come and see, or if you wish to visit me in Barquisimeto I can have you meet more.
I do remember pre-Chavez hospitals. My mother being a medical professional, she knows a LOT of doctors in Barquisimeto. Doctors that work at the general hospital, private clinics, UCLA (universidad centro occidental lisandro alvarado), etc, etc, etc. And even THEY (who are not chavists by the way) say that the hospitals in which they work at are better.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
Mrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1581 times:
It's interesting to hear different,well-informed viewpoints on the matter.
By the way,are the Cuban doctors allowed to keep their salaries, or is the money sent to Cuba ? (I had heard such was the arrangement in some of the African countries: Cuba kept the money, and paid the doctors a small stipend-about what a laborer would make.)
TACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1573 times:
"Before Castro seized power 1959 Revolution, Cuba had one the world's best medical systems, its ratio one physician per 960 patients ranked 10th World Health Organization (England, contrast, had one physician per 1,200 people, Mexico one physician per 2,400 people). Cuba had Latin America's lowest infant mortality rate, comparable to Canada's better than France's, Japan's Italy's. Its population was well fed, with per capita food consumption third highest Latin America.
Today, Cuba ranks last Latin American per capita food consumption - cereals especially meat milk consumption are down dramatically - but has not lost its medical capabilities. Instead, Cuba has reoriented its medical system task earning foreign exchange. To this, Cuba pioneered "health tourism" through agencies such as Servimed, which markets medical services abroad. Cuba "the ideal destination your health," boasts, frankly admitting being "a tourist subsystem."
With an annual growth rate 20% health tourism, Servimed has done well its task marrying health tourism. Many Italians now couple their annual vacations Cuba with their annual dental work, others come cut-rate knee replacements eye surgery. But perhaps Cuba's most popular medical service, one heavily promotes tourists abroad, cosmetic surgery. Cuban doctors have become expert breast implants, tummy tucks, liposuction nose jobs, giving some doctors international reputations letting them serve Revolution one country's best earners foreign exchange.
It's "win" elite doctors "win" privileged patients, who benef what has become world's most extreme two-tiered medical system. It's "win" Cuban elite, Castro on down, whom Byron describes participating fitness culture. "When I treat tourists 75 years age, I am treating f people with many healthy years ahead them," he said. case with members Cuban elite. "Castro fit, others top government, age 75, are fit. They take care themselves.
"But an ordinary Cuban 63 64 years already feeble, an old man." For poor, beaten down system denied basic medical care, the medical system "lose." "
Mrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1542 times:
TAC, that was interesting: 2 different responses; 2 very different political viewpoints.
Soyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 593 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1526 times:
What I find rather amusing at times, is that people will criticise Cuba's health care system based upon photos from a single hospital. There are hospitals and hospices worse than that in this country.
Andorra comes in 1st in life expectancy at 83.49 years.
USA comes in 48th at 77.14 years.
Cuba comes in 51st at 76.8 years.
Now compare that with Mozambique where 31.3 years is the average life expectancy.
How could a country with a piss poor health care system and a starving population, if reports are to be believed, have an average life expectancy of it's citizens of 76.8 years. Looking at that list in the link I provided, Cuba has the highest life expectancy outside of the so-called first world. It also has the highest life expectancy of any country in Latin America (I do not count colonies and territories as their health care is often the responsibility of the 'mother country' such as France, UK, Netherlands, etc).
Then consider that Cuba has been unable to import a lot of drugs because of the US embargo of the island nation. Cuba is unable to buy a lot of medicines from Europe, because the European companies are threatened with sanctions against their US operations by the various arms of the US government. So Cuba has Medicuba which is involved in high tech biomedical research, and they seem to be quite successful, even to the point that they have drugs which the US doesn't have, but can't export because of the embargo.
I'm not saying that Cuban health care is the best in the world, but it sure as hell isn't as bad as what others make it out to be. The truth? In the middle somewhere.
MIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 862 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1504 times:
They keep their money, and their families in Cuba are paid their normal 'cuban' salary. They also get cash US Dollar bonuses when they go back to Cuba.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
Tacaa320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1491 times:
Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 11): TAC, that was interesting: 2 different responses; 2 very different political viewpoints.
When you analyze a problem, you must take a look to all angles in order to be fair. Nevertheless, I think that Cuban Doctors, are not precisely the "best" [not even well trained in their majority].
Soyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 593 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1474 times:
Quoting Tacaa320 (Reply 14): When you analyze a problem, you must take a look to all angles in order to be fair. Nevertheless, I think that Cuban Doctors, are not precisely the "best" [not even well trained in their majority].
So what part of this analysis proved to you that Cuban doctors are not well trained? Even in the minority? Or is it your hatred of Castro that is clouding judgement on that issue?
Tacaa320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1468 times:
Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 15): So what part of this analysis proved to you that Cuban doctors are not well trained?
Family's experience. My cousin was diagnosed with "retinitis pigmentaria" [don't know the name in English. She was advised at Bascom Palmer [MIA] and Clinica Barraquer [BOG] that nothing can be done in her case. Nevertheless, in her desperation, she went to a Clinic in Havana under the "promise" of a bunch of nerds called "ophthalmologist" that she will be cured. She was operated and paid US$8000, thanks to their "magic touch" and their "great experience as MD".
By the way, she's not the only case. I know some others.
Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 15): Or is it your hatred of Castro that is clouding judgement on that issue?
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