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JFK Murdered 42 Years Ago  
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

"On November 22, 1963, when he was hardly past his first thousand days in office, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was killed by an assassin's bullets as his motorcade wound through Dallas, Texas. Kennedy was the youngest man elected President; he was the youngest to die. "

Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jk35.html

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 48
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

It's a shame anyone a politician gets assasinated (regardless of who you think pulled the trigger).

That said, however, the man was hardly a saint-except maybe how he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis. At least he had the balls to engage Krushchev (sp?) in that game of nuclear chicken.

Were that event to happen today, you'd have half the country egging him on to press the proverbial button and the other half demanding that we keep our nose out of Cubas business and to let them build and fill the missile silos if it meant "keeping the peace" and "keeping the troops home."


User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1179 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
the man was hardly a saint-except

True, I will agree. Kennedy was a special president in American history. No president since has been able to unify this country like him.
Also things havent been the same here since his assassination. There seemed to have been a loss of innocence. Kennedy detractors will possibly point out his womanizing, the fiasco of the Bay of Pigs, and other things.
The Bay of Pigs I would not put on his shoulders, that falls to the CIA and Eisenhower administration. But I do give him credit for the moon landing, the civil rights act, among other things.
His speeches were also poetic but strong. Some of the best (IMHO) presidential sound bites of the second half of the 20th century can be credited to him. I guess it leaves one important question...what would have happened if there was no Dallas, and he was re-elected?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 2):
what would have happened if there was no Dallas, and he was re-elected?

Possibly 56,000+ service men would have lived and the Vietnam horror wouldn't have happened.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1166 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Thread starter):
On November 22, 1963, when he was hardly past his first thousand days in office, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was killed by an assassin's bullets

And suddenly he had a legacy other than bringing us to the brink of nuclear war while fucking with Cuba over nothing.

People keep calling him a great President, I challenge them to show what he actually did that was good.


User currently offlineTacaa320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1160 times:

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 4):
And suddenly he had a legacy other than bringing us to the brink of nuclear war while fucking with Cuba over nothing.

Can you elaborate this a little more pls?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1156 times:

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 4):
And suddenly he had a legacy other than bringing us to the brink of nuclear war while fucking with Cuba over nothing.

I think you have him confused with Nikki Kruschchev, Capt. It was the USSR that brought us to brink of war, not President Kennedy. He merely called their bluff. And it worked.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 4):
People keep calling him a great President, I challenge them to show what he actually did that was good.

No, he was not a great president. He was not in office long enough to be catagorized in any direction. He was headed, I think, to being a better n' average president. We'll never know what he could have/could not have become, sadly.

What he did was good? The Peace Corps? Setting our sights on the moon? The Civil Rights Bill? (signed when LBJ was in office, but pushed by JFK). That's not too shabby for a thousand days.

He was young, vigorous, and pushed the idea of a a New Frontier; of service to the country; part of a generation that helped save this planet from some pretty evil forces. He had his vices, as do we all. But he made Americans think there's nothing they couldn't do, and his assassination took a huge chunk of what was left of our innocence, and much of our belief that the world was a good place, out of the American soul. His death marked the true beginning of the turbulent 60's, which didn't end till we left Vietnam in the early 70's, and we haven't been the same nation since.

And while I believe Oswald was involved in his death, I will never believe he was a lone gunman who killed him. Just my 2 cents.

RIP, JFK.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1156 times:
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President Kennedy's murder was a tragedy, indeed...as would be the assassination of any of our heads of state. It stripped us of a certain innocence that our baby boomers had developed and brought us back down to earth a little after the resurgence of our national self post depression.

Was he a great President? Well, on the one hand he launched us on the race to the moon, and framed it within the cold war thus motivating everyone to get behind the project. He also cut the taxes we needed to help us out of some economic doldrums and helped our economy in that way.

He also dropped the ball on the Vietnamese situation, allowing the assassination and replacement of one crook with a much bigger one. He reneged on our governments promise to support the invasion of Cuba at Bahia de Cochinos, leaving thousands of men without the aircover and support they needed to establish a beachhead....and leaving our 2d Armored Division and 82d Abn standing around with their members in hand.

His election was the result of what is commonly known as massive voter fraud in Illinois, most say as a result of organized crime assistance in Chicago. He was guilty of nepotism in his appointment of his brother as Attorney General, and was dishonorable in his personal life with his wife and friends.

His leadership during the Cuban Missile Crisis was interesting, and his decision to back down on having US missiles in Turkey (agreeing in secret to pull them out in 6 months) is what motivated Kruschev to blink and pull his missiles out of Cuba, and the victory in the brinksmanship is not as clear as many would like to make out.

His three years in office were a mixed bag, and reelection was by no means assured.

His assassination was a national tragedy....his presidency was not as special as the rose colored glasses would like to remember.

I'd also like to point out that his behaviour under fire in WWII. After allowing his high speed PT Boat to be run down in the night by a destroyer escort he displayed excellent leadership behind enemy lines and got his crew back home intact. He took care of his men in the face of adversity.

[Edited 2005-11-23 04:27:45]


Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAGM114L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1150 times:

Joe Dimagio really shot him, he was very jealous about Marilyn Monroe.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 7):
His three years in office were a mixed bag, and reelection was by no means assured.
His assassination was a national tragedy....his presidency was not as special as the rose colored glasses would like to remember.

I agree, I never got the types who want JFK's mug on Mt. Rushmore. JFK was probably the most ineffective president in modern times aside from Carter.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

I was 9 years old, in 2nd grade in Catholic School at about 2 pm in the afternoon when the word came on the anouncement system of JFK's shooting and death. The closest way to compare the reaction to our times was 9/11. Full grown adults cried like babies. America was in shock. It also changed forever the security around the President. Who know what would have happened if he was able to serve his full term, it would have been interesting.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1143 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 7):
He was guilty of nepotism in his appointment of his brother as Attorney General,

He was "guilty" of nothing, Ian. It was allowed back then. How was he "guilty", if that's the case?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 7):
His three years in office were a mixed bag, and reelection was by no means assured.

It was with an extremist like Goldwater running. He'd have won as easily as Johnson.

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 8):
I agree, I never got the types who want JFK's mug on Mt. Rushmore.

Conversely, I never got the types who wanted to put Reagan up there, either. Neither deserve it. If anyone deserved it since it was made, it's FDR.


User currently offlineTacaa320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 8):
JFK was probably the most ineffective president in modern times aside from Carter.

Worst than G.W.Bush?


User currently offlineAGM114L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1136 times:

Quoting Tacaa320 (Reply 11):
Worst than G.W.Bush?

I'm talking about effectiveness, not how good of a president they were, Bush effectively over-threw two regimes on the other side of the globe. JFK had the Bay of Pigs and talked some shit with Khrushchev.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 12):
Bush effectively over-threw two regimes on the other side of the globe.

There's a good bit of PR. It isn't the truth, but the natives will eat it up.

Unbelievable.


User currently offlineAGM114L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Quoting AGM114L (Reply 12):
Bush effectively over-threw two regimes on the other side of the globe.

There's a good bit of PR. It isn't the truth, but the natives will eat it up.

Unbelievable.

Hmmm....I distintly remember Sadaam and the B'ath Party being out of power when I was in Iraq last year, but who knows could have been another mirage or the malaria medication playing tricks on me mind.

I said Over-throw not the same as nation building.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1123 times:

If it were so effective, we'd be out of both by now. I still support Afghanistan, but not Iraq, but I don't think we've been as effective as your PR line would lead others to believe.

User currently offlineAGM114L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 12):
I'm talking about effectiveness, not how good of a president they were, Bush effectively over-threw two regimes on the other side of the globe. JFK had the Bay of Pigs and talked some shit with Khrushchev.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
If it were so effective, we'd be out of both by now. I still support Afghanistan, but not Iraq, but I don't think we've been as effective as your PR line would lead others to believe.

Falcon,

I notice every time we get into a discussion about the war you manipulate my words to serve your views. I simply stated that the B'ath and Taliban are overthrown as in not in power, sure they may have some underground support but they are no where having control of their country.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1120 times:
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 7):
He was guilty of nepotism in his appointment of his brother as Attorney General,

He was "guilty" of nothing, Ian. It was allowed back then. How was he "guilty", if that's the case?

He appointed his brother to be Attorney General when there were many more qualified people available. The definition of nepotism seems to be met. Guilt is being used properly here. He was guilty of being a ladies man, too. You are guilty of working for an airline. I'm guilty of being a smartass. Nothing about the law there.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 7):
His three years in office were a mixed bag, and reelection was by no means assured.

It was with an extremist like Goldwater running. He'd have won as easily as Johnson.

Are we sure that Goldwater would have run and won with Kennedy as the incumbent? I think this is an interesting point. Would Nixon have run again?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Quoting AGM114L (Reply 12):
Bush effectively over-threw two regimes on the other side of the globe.

There's a good bit of PR. It isn't the truth, but the natives will eat it up.

Well, you may not like it in Iraq, but it's definitely true. Two regimes were tossed out in countries across the planet.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
If it were so effective, we'd be out of both by now.

Ah, now you are confusing the actions of throwing out the old regimes and starting new democracies. And do you really think there was any way to make that process work much faster than it has? Throwing the old guys out was easy, relatively speaking, starting a democracy under ideal circumstances is difficult, and there was no such thing as ideal circumstances in either country. Afghanistan was basically 80% stone age to early industrial after 20 years of relatively continuous war, and Iraq was not in terrific shape either, being made up from three completely different ethnic groups that don't like each other.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 17):
He appointed his brother to be Attorney General when there were many more qualified people available.

You ever stop to think that Jack thought Bobby WAS the most qualified. Strange you trying to question his selection 40 years later.  Smile

Quoting DL021 (Reply 17):
Are we sure that Goldwater would have run and won with Kennedy as the incumbent?

Pretty sure. Goldwater was the odds-on-favorite for the GOP nomination the day Kennedy was murdered.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1112 times:
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Was I questioning his quals or simply pointing out the nepotism?

I'll buy that about Goldwater. He was pretty popular at the time, among a certain set.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1110 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 19):
I'll buy that about Goldwater. He was pretty popular at the time, among a certain set.

No comment.  Big grin


User currently offlineTacaa320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1102 times:

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 12):
I'm talking about effectiveness, not how good of a president they were,

Effectiveness in terms of what?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1088 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 17):
Guilt is being used properly here. He was guilty of being a ladies man, too.

That's not a crime nor is anyone's business.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 17):
Are we sure that Goldwater would have run and won with Kennedy as the incumbent? I think this is an interesting point. Would Nixon have run again?

Nixon didn't want a rematch with Kennedy, it was Rockefeller that was challenging Goldwater in the GOP primaries and George Wallace challenging Kennedy in the Democratic primaries. Well Wallace ended up challenging Johnson in the 1964 primaries.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 19):
I'll buy that about Goldwater. He was pretty popular at the time, among a certain set.

Yep those segregationist southern Democrats that switched to the Republican party starting around this time. That includes bastards such as Strom Thurmond, Ronald Reagan, Trent Lott, Jessie Helms just to name a few.
Granted Thurmond was the only officeholder at that time.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1062 times:

There were many Rumours on the Suspects.Was the truth known ever.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSAS_A330-300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1049 times:

Ich bin ein Berliner... Big grin

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