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Breaking News Ten U.S. Marines Killed In Action  
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 49
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
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Just starting to come accross cnn.com

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/02/iraq.main/index.html


You can cut the irony with a knife
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2763 times:
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One of the things that really burns me up is that while losing people is breaking news no on seems interested in reporting much about the progress being made or the accomplishments that have come about.

Damnit, those men and women volunteered to do this job and they need to know that we support what they are doing. Supporting the troops does not mean demoralizing them by focusing only on the cost. We recognize the cost, while moving forward because the goal is worth it.

WHo here wants to discuss the goals and whether they are worth the cost?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

"no on seems interested in reporting much about the progress being made or the accomplishments that have come about."


The US military and FOX NEWS do!  
"U.S. paying Iraqi editors to print favorable news
Some military officials in Iraq, Pentagon deplore secret operation"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...-te.baghdad30nov30,1,4405919.story

FOX News Special: Winning Iraq: The Untold Story

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,177381,00.html

[Edited 2005-12-02 18:14:28]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
WHo here wants to discuss the goals and whether they are worth the cost?

I'll go grab N1120A.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

How is a handful of Marines dying in a war zone "Breaking News"? Good thing this isn't Vietnam or we would have nothing BUT breaking news.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

My sympathies the their families, and to all the families of everyone lost in Iraq. Salute and Semper Fi.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
no on seems interested in reporting much about the progress being made or the accomplishments that have come about.

Isn't that the truth . . . have a look here Ian. Same old drivel, same old naysayers and blindfold wearers.
Interesting News From Iraq (by ANCFlyer Dec 1 2005 in Non Aviation)

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 3):
I'll go grab N1120A.

Great, at least he can manage a cognizant, coherent conversation.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 4):
How is a handful of Marines dying in a war zone "Breaking News"?

When the cable networks use the "Breaking News" thing to follow a guy going down Ventura Blvd in LAX who is evading police because he robbed a bank, then the bar has been lowered.

My sympathys to the familes and friends of those who have fallen.


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
Supporting the troops does not mean demoralizing them by focusing only on the cost.

But supporting the troops while being critical of this war are two completely different things! How is someone demoralizing the troops when denouncing that this administration hasn't given them proper equipment? How is someone demoralizing the troops when denouncing this Administration's claims that Saddam and 9/11 were connected, a reason for which many young men and women actually joined the military in the first place!?

One thing is to critisize the troops (of which I haven't seen much, not on this board nor in the media). An entirely different thing is critisizing those who call the shots, the politicians in Washington! Argueing that any criticism on this Administration's handling of the war is a direct criticism of the troops is pathetic! It is deflecting the criticism to those who do not have a voice in this whole issue, who cannot critisize the decisions taken by their leadership and which they ultimately have to carry out.

These men and women, who as you indicated, did volunteer and of which at least 10 today paid the ultimate price, were send on a mission by this Administration and it is this Administration which is being held accountable. I cannot imagine those men and women in the US military, many of whom signed up inmediately after 9/11, want the US General Public to follow their leader blindly, as that is exactly what happened in the runup to the war which ultimately led these men and women to follow their political leaders' orders and invade Iraq, when they thought they were going after Osama bin Laden.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
We recognize the cost, while moving forward because the goal is worth it.

WHo here wants to discuss the goals and whether they are worth the cost?

You sound like a tax & spend liberal.  Smile



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

Breaking news? They were killed YESTERDAY, the Pentagon kept it quiet until today. The BBC made special mention of that because it goes against every single other US military casualty announcement.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
They were killed YESTERDAY, the Pentagon kept it quiet until today.

Next of kin notification most likely . . . that's not an ususual practice. Put yourself in the place of the NOK and hearing on the news that 10 Marines have been killed - and not knowing if your loved on was amongst the casualties.


User currently onlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4699 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 4):
How is a handful of Marines dying in a war zone "Breaking News"? Good thing this isn't Vietnam or we would have nothing BUT breaking news.

my god, I actually agree with an american on the Iraq war...... With the 1000+dead how is 10 'breaking news'? It is known by now that American soldiers die in iraq every day.... how is this difirent?

[offtopic]
hiding for the war that I most likely have started
[/offtopic]



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2645 times:
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Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 7):
But supporting the troops while being critical of this war are two completely different things!

No, they aren't. The method and means of the opposition are such that they harm troops by damaging morale by indicating to the troops that their mission is in doubt. If you were ever in the military you would know that you must have faith in your mission and your leaders. Much of the criticism is overblown and overdramatized, namely the constant namecalling and accusations of malfeasance and lying almost all of which is unproven, acceptance by certain parties notwithstanding. The troops don't need to hear all the begative crap and find that the folks back home never hear about the good things that happens, most of which is dismissed by detractors of the leadership who don't want any good news to get in the way of their message.

It's similar to someone announcing that I'm spending thousands of dollars a month on a business losing money and it's not worth it (in their opinion which fact they typically omit in the hopes that their audience will take it as fact). Well, if they don't point out that I'm spending thousands of dollars a month on starting a new business and it is not scheduled to turn a profit for 3 years then they aren't telling the whole story.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 7):
How is someone demalizing the troops when denouncing that this administration hasn't given thsem proper equipment? How is someone demoralizing the troops when denouncing this Administration's claims that Saddam and 9/11 were connected, a reason for which many young men and women actually joined the military in the first place!?

Well, do you think the troops need you to tell them whether they have the proper equipment? Do you think that a reporter who doesn't know the difference between an AK74 and an SLR is truly qualified to do anything other than scream what they heard from someone else? Do you think it improves morale to scream at the top of your lungs some of the stated reasons for war are lies....especially when they weren't lies...perhaps incorrect intel, but to call them lies and assign reasons of your own to them lends confusion and discomfort to our troops in the field...as well as their families here.

Oh, and it lends comfort to the enemy in that they take heart in the idea that there are those here who want to pull out before the job is done and let the terrorists do what they want without opposition. Lending aid and comfort to the enemy is the definition of treason if you are a citizen here, or the definition of an enemy if you are from elsewhere. Many don't think of it in those terms, but if you look at it honestly you'll find it difficult to deny this.


Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 7):
One thing is to critisize the troops (of which I haven't seen much, not on this board nor in the media). An entirely different thing is critisizing those who call the shots, the politicians in Washington! Argueing that any criticism on this Administration's handling of the war is a direct criticism of the troops is pathetic!

Pathetic? No one said that criticizing the President is criticizing the truth, and to claim such is deflecting blame. Criticizing the administration is fair game, until outlandish and unproven allegations are taken as fact and constant attacks are levied at the administration in the press with little contrary editorial opinion in most outlets that is weakening public support for the direction we have taken...and doing so dishonestly.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Quoting Myt332 (Reply 3)
I'll go grab N1120A.

Great, at least he can manage a cognizant, coherent conversation.

Yeah....he's still far left, but he's a good guy, and my friend. I think he's a 20 year old democrat who'll be a 40 year old republican (a Giuliani type to be sure, but there).  Wink

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
When the cable networks use the "Breaking News" thing to follow a guy going down Ventura Blvd in LAX who is evading police because he robbed a bank, then the bar has been lowered.

Amen, brother.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 7):
I cannot imagine those men and women in the US military, many of whom signed up inmediately after 9/11, want the US General Public to follow their leader blindly, as that is exactly what happened in the runup to the war which ultimately led these men and women to follow their political leaders' orders and invade Iraq, when they thought they were going after Osama bin Laden.

I guess that since you cannot imagine it perhaps you should go and speak to them. They are in your country at Moron, Rota and elsewhere. (assuming you are in Spain). Men and women who enlist in the US military understand what they are getting into and do it with their eyes open. Don't insult them by accusing them of being blind sheep.

There is a way to criticize and disagree without taking the all out attacks being levied. Polite and even forceful questioning and even voting against measures not liked is called for.....screaming unproven accusations as fact is not.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
You sound like a tax & spend liberal.

Watch yer lip, 'tater chip!  Wink

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
They were killed YESTERDAY, the Pentagon kept it quiet until today.

Next of kin notification most likely . . . that's not an ususual practice. Put yourself in the place of the NOK and hearing on the news that 10 Marines have been killed - and not knowing if your loved on was amongst the casualties.

Because the press would show up at their door with the people unprepared for this. Notification is necessary and to demand information prior to family notification is crass and classless.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
When the cable networks use the "Breaking News" thing to follow a guy going down Ventura Blvd in LAX who is evading police because he robbed a bank, then the bar has been lowered.

LOL. We get those all the time here in SoCal. In the past week I've watched 3 "breaking news" car chases on TV.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Next of kin notification most likely . . . that's not an ususual practice. Put yourself in the place of the NOK and hearing on the news that 10 Marines have been killed - and not knowing if your loved on was amongst the casualties.

Up until this announcement, the incidents were always reported by the US Armed Forces HQ in Iraq within a couple of hours of them happening. No names obviously as that allows them to contact next of kin, but thats how all incidents up to this one were released to the press.

This one was kept quiet for 24 hours and the press was informed by the Pentagon. One has to wonder why.... (no conspiracy theories, people are genuinely interested in why the sudden and vast change in policy).


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2628 times:
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Well they were all killed in one single attack, that took out all ten.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2624 times:

Thursday's deaths bring the number of U.S. military deaths in Iraq to 2,124.


Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
WHo here wants to discuss the goals and whether they are worth the cost?

I do. So tell me, what are the goals and how far are they away.


User currently offlineNordair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

It's just never going to end, is it.  Sad

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 14):
This one was kept quiet for 24 hours and the press was informed by the Pentagon. One has to wonder why.... (no conspiracy theories, people are genuinely interested in why the sudden and vast change in policy).

Again, not unusual - and I seem to recall a similar incident a few months back where a Marine AmTrack was destroyed, killing 14-15 Marines, and that news was also released much later than the incident. Once again, it's not unusual. And it's not a "sudden and vast change in policy". You're making more of this than it is - honestly. It's not breaking news, it's not a sudden or vast anything. Notification of Next of Kin might have taken some extra time. It's just that simple.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Again, not unusual - and I seem to recall a similar incident a few months back where a Marine AmTrack was destroyed, killing 14-15 Marines, and that news was also released much later than the incident. Once again, it's not unusual. And it's not a "sudden and vast change in policy". You're making more of this than it is - honestly. It's not breaking news, it's not a sudden or vast anything. Notification of Next of Kin might have taken some extra time. It's just that simple.

Why then was the delay and change of reporting specifically mentioned as 'unusual' in the TV report on the 6pm news on BBC1 with similiar wording to my post?


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
Why then was the delay and change of reporting specifically mentioned as 'unusual' in the TV report on the 6pm news on BBC1 with similiar wording to my post?

Call BBC1 and ask them. . . . it's not unusual.

Try this: Sensationalism? That's a good start.

It's just not unusual . . . you can rephrase your question again, and the answer will be the same . . . . it's not unusual . . . . I wish I could subscribe to some huge conspiracy or coverup theory to support your thoughts/the BBC's report but it's just not there. . .


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2580 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 16):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
WHo here wants to discuss the goals and whether they are worth the cost?

I do. So tell me, what are the goals and how far are they away.

Good. Thanks for offering discussion.

What are the goals here. I believe that our original goal was to remove Iraq as a threat when we were unable to find evidence that countered our intelligence that said that Iraq possessed wmds. While there has been no large numbers of WMDs found it was found that the ability to restart these programs fairly at will was present and as long as Saddam was in charge that threat was real. So the goal of preventing Saddam from possessing or using WMDs or threatening his neighbors in a volatile region which controls a significant chunk of the worlds oil, thus stability of national economies around the world, has been met.

Our current stated goal of having a democracy in the region is the current goal, and it's a worthy one in that the primary reason terrorists exist is that a large group of people feel disenfranchised and that their lives are worth more in the next world. If we can help this nation develop a working democracy with a functioning economy where the populace feels that they have more to live for than die for then we will have gone a very long way towards making the world safer by reducing the number of people willing to export terror as a means to effect change. Once people figure out that you can seek justice and exercise self determination within a democratic framework then terrorism and the assholes who propagate and instigate it will be stuck looking for followers.....and not finding the success that they currently enjoy. Democracy and prosperity will kill terrorism.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

I think I'll skip the political crap and say ,"Godspeed, and safe journey home, brothers !"

Semper Fi !



gene
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Call BBC1 and ask them. . . . it's not unusual.

Try this: Sensationalism? That's a good start.

It's just not unusual . . . you can rephrase your question again, and the answer will be the same . . . . it's not unusual . . . . I wish I could subscribe to some huge conspiracy or coverup theory to support your thoughts/the BBC's report but it's just not there. . .

Im not being heartless here but US and UK military personel deaths in Iraq is something that gets reported at least once a week it seems, theres nothing to GET sensationalist over - its rapidly becoming a none event when it comes to prime time news items. Again, Im not being heartless, thats how it is tho.

The BBC gets no income from increased viewership figures as it doesnt advertise - wheres the point in being sensationalist? It isnt exactly a good story with any potential for follow up anyway.

When their main political correspondant says something like that on a prime time news slot and spends what could be deemed a not inconsiderable chunk of the news item on it, Im willing to think that the BBC doesnt consider it 'normal' despite whatever someone on airliners.net seems to think.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):

Im not being heartless here but US and UK military personel deaths in Iraq is something that gets reported at least once a week it seems, theres nothing to GET sensationalist over - its rapidly becoming a none event when it comes to prime time news items. Again, Im not being heartless, thats how it is tho.

I understand . . . I'm not insinuating you're being heartless at all. I too see the general public - on both sides of the ocean - becoming more and more desensitized to theswe casualties. Mostly because of the NIMBY effect IMO.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
Im willing to think that the BBC doesnt consider it 'normal' despite whatever someone on airliners.net seems to think.

That my friend is the question I can't answer for you other than to say - It's not unusual. I don't find it as such. I would venture to say that none of the former/current military members here would find it unusual either.


25 BHXFAOTIPYYC : The whole way news is reported mostly pisses me off these days. You can almost hear the excitement in the voices of the journos/presenters on the news
26 Schoenorama : With all due respect, but that is complete and utter bullsh!t. Their part of the mission isn't in doubt at all. Their interference and sacrifice has
27 Falcon84 : Yes, they are, Ian. You seem to be of the mindset that if you DON'T support the war, you CAN'T support the troops. That's labeling all of us who dont
28 Jaysit : 10 Marines killed today. But 10 Iraqis bought cell phones today costing the US tax payer $ 1 billion. So, of course, it's worth it. (Republican Math.
29 B757300 : Reporting the good news does not fit the anti-Bush and anti-U.S. agenda. On the other hand the media reports with glee (shared by some here) whenever
30 Luv2fly : I would never say with glee, that is both unfair and totally wrong. I find it hard to believe anyone in the media enjoys having to report these death
31 Cfalk : I would not call you anti-american, but I think you are a victim of wishful thinking in this regard. By saying, "We are against what you are doing, b
32 Post contains images Luv2fly : Just heard on NBC news that the reason for the delay in reporting these deaths could have had something to do with George W's scheduled press conferen
33 Post contains images Klaus : Any glee is reserved entirely for the seat-warmers who couldn't be bothered to recognize the readily available facts and cheered for the war (and stil
34 ME AVN FAN : "good news is no news" ! I am not sure whether the phrase was "coined" by Churchill or Mark Twain or whomever, but it still is correct. Look at TV-ne
35 Luv2fly :
36 ME AVN FAN : well, if seen in proper perspectives, then the losses of the USA in Iraq are VERY LOW indeed. Both if compared with the losses on the side of the Ira
37 Sebolino : The goal of preventing Saddam Hussein (why do you call him by his first name ???? Is he a friend of yours ?) to drink a soda while watching TV is als
38 Falcon84 : Good news, of any kind, doesn't sell. And if it's all anti-Bush, which is bullshit, then why wasn't Mr. Clinton's 8 years filled with roses? Again, a
39 Cfalk : LOL, I've been thinking of that song ever for the past couple of days on this subject. I stand corrected. You have always been of that opinion. I was
40 Post contains images MiCorazonAzul : ok, WE GOT THE POINT.....IT'S NOT UNUSUAL! Sad story indeed....oh well, add them to the tally........which btw, what is it at right now anyhow?
41 Falcon84 : And that mindset is not in anyway contridactory, Charles, except among a few who fanatically support this war, and they are few and far between, even
42 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Nonsense. Apparently, CZ, one of our UK friends didn't. KiM Jong Il
43 Post contains images DL021 : OK..I'll answer some of the points raised.... but no one has effectively dissuaded me from the belief that our goals as I stated them were the wrong o
44 Falcon84 : Ian, invaded a fourth-rate, nearly helpess nation is wrong in and of itself. I think that's effective enough argument right there. All I can say is I
45 Luv2fly : If only Bush could have this same vision!
46 Post contains images Scbriml : Well, zero, or possibly one, is certainly not a large number. Well that's just great! Tell the (min) 25,000 dead innocent Iraqis that their deaths we
47 Gary2880 : would you like a glass of water to wash your foot down with. talk about moving the goal posts, its for weapons! No its for Saddam! No oil! No democra
48 Tbar220 : At least two people said what really needed to be said. I hope they rest in peace, it is a sad day when any number of our soldiers die.
49 DL021 : You keep hammering only at items you feel are useful to your argument, while ignoring the questions I posed. Yes...it was one of the reasons. We did
50 PIA777 : And in a related story......George W. Bush is planing his next vacation. God Bless those troops and their families. PIA777
51 Falcon84 : Ian, what the hell gives us the right TO TAKE THAT RISK AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER NATION? Who the fuck are we to play fast and loose with the world a
52 Post contains links Schoenorama : One thing is the mission itself, a entirely different thing is who or what decided upon that mission, in this case the Bush Administration in general
53 Gary2880 : I agree, truckloads of what indeed? Wasn't weapon's! They maybe had the ability to launch a used tissue at us within 45 minutes, the ability to throw
54 DL021 : Statement or question? You really ought to stop reading into the question and deciding I made a statement. How do you know they were courageous? Who
55 DL021 : Naive is believing that they are not watching, or at least their leaders are not watching and telling them to take heart, even showing them video of
56 Post contains images Gary2880 : ah the your buddy line, the enemy of my enemy is my friend right? I know that's an ideal your ilk likes to follow. Unfortunately I don't. Osama, reme
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