Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Ultra-fast Trains In The UK  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19193 posts, RR: 52
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

Wouldn't it be fantastic if the ultra-fast trains which operate in parts of Asia, like South Korea, operated in the UK? Just think - 370km per hour. It would, of course, require billions in investment, but we can imagine what it'd be like. Why do I get the feeling we'll always have relatively slow, poorly punctual and quite unreliable trains in the UK? If we had the ultra-fast ones, that'd mean central London to major UK cities, for example:

Central Manchester in about 40-50 minutes
Central Birmingham in about 30 minutes
Central Liverpool in about 40-50 minutes
Central Leeds in about 40-50 minutes
Central Bristol in about 20-30 minutes
Central Cardiff in about 30 minutes
Central Plymouth in about 40 minutes
Central Newcastle in about 1 hour 10 minutes
Central Edinburgh in about 1 hour 40 minutes
Central Glasgow in about 1 hour 40 minutes

Some trains could stop enroute at other major cities, like London-Glasgow via Birmingham and Manchester. From London to Birmingham it'd be about 30 minutes; from Birmingham to Manchester it'd be about 20-25 minutes; from Manchester to Glasgow it'd be about 50 minutes. So, Birmingham-Glasgow would only take about 1 hour 10 minutes to 1 hour 15 minutes.

Wouldn't it be great?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Before the trains start to go ultra fast, they need to get Ultra Cheap...

It costs me £1.70 to take the FOUR MINUTE train journey from my local station of Three Bridges to Gatwick Airport... Its a friggin disgrace how much the train costs these days, especially in the south. I'm happy to say that reliability and on time performance is improving, but its at an expense that is beyond belief. How can TfL expect to get people on public transport if it costs an arm and a leg to use it?

C'mon Southern Trains, drop your fares because as long as i have to pay through the nose for a ticket, i'll continue to attempt to bunk and NOT pay for a ticket.



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2730 posts, RR: 41
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 1):
It costs me £1.70 to take the FOUR MINUTE train journey from my local station of Three Bridges to Gatwick Airport... Its a friggin disgrace how much the train costs these days, especially in the south. I'm happy to say that reliability and on time performance is improving, but its at an expense that is beyond belief. How can TfL expect to get people on public transport if it costs an arm and a leg to use it?

Don't be a lazy arse and ride there! Then you'll save £1.70 a day!



Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 1):
they need to get Ultra Cheap

Well if you get a seasonal ticket, book in advance or get a YP railcard then you'll find the trains are pretty much ultra cheap.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

They need to sort the bleedin train network out first.

Cant belive i sometimes have to get a bus when i have paid for a train. Seats are never free cause the train is so packed. Once on GNER, the guard PUSHED my sister onto the train. It was packed


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 2):
Don't be a lazy arse and ride there! Then you'll save £1.70 a day!

I'd rather not, i have to be at Gatwick for 0545 and at the moment its dark, and icy... Far to dangerous to be riding a bike to work at THAT time in the morning. I ride my bike in summer but not in winter.

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 3):
Well if you get a seasonal ticket, book in advance or get a YP railcard then you'll find the trains are pretty much ultra cheap.

Seasonal ticket doesnt work in my situation as i rotate around the company and i dont always need to get the train, it would work out as a waste of money. Booking in advance doesnt work because I cant. A YP Railcard might, but still, its shocking to think that Southern get away with such rediculous pricing.

I've experienced the rail system in manchester and london, and the northerners do it better... The 1hr journey from my local station in manchester to the airport costs £5.60rtn. The trains run on time and are never too busy.

I've caught the train to sheffield recently and it was fantastic... £20 rtn in First Class both ways. Booked in advance. If only all my journeys could be as happy as that one.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 4):
Seats are never free cause the train is so packed. Once on GNER, the guard PUSHED my sister onto the train. It was packed

The train companies are limited, they cant always put a larger train onto the service because not all station platforms can handle a train that is 8 cars in length. Avoid the train at peak times, its inevitable that it will be busy...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

And another inflation-busting price rise has been announced - up to 10% on some fares.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Well we've got the London-Paris line that goes up to about 320km.

To acheive a system like you've said new high speed tracks would have to be built. I suggest running them alongside the M1 myself at least as far as Birmingham, then continuing along to Manchester, and possibly Glasgow and Edinburgh. They are very expensive to built but the operating costs of High speed trains such as the Eurostar and the TGV are incredible. Something rediculous like 50 full fare business passengers travelling from Paris-Lyon is enough for the train to break even, and they can fit that many people in one carriage.

Not only would that help domestic travel, you could also go from Manchester-Brussles, Glagow-Paris or Birmingham-Amsterdam within 5 hours.

I'd also suggest connecting such a line with LHR to act as a feeder 'flights' reducing slot demand.

Good idea, It'll never happen though.


User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 5):
I've experienced the rail system in manchester and london, and the northerners do it better... The 1hr journey from my local station in manchester to the airport costs £5.60rtn. The trains run on time and are never too busy

Hmm, well I don't know. At rush hours the 2 car trains are packed and are mostly late and if they are, guess what, they get cancelled at Piccadilly and you have to go find another service. Bullshit.

Anyway, get a YP.  Wink



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

the main reason we dont have high speeds over here is because there are turns everywere and it wouldnt be safe for a train to hurdle round it at 320km/h yet asia and other places have miles after miles after miles of straight so you dont have to worry about as many derailments


You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21407 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

The german ICEs have to deal with difficult terrain as well (unlike the TGV) and they still manage to run at express speeds.

It takes substantial investment in tracks and trains, however. Maggie Thatcher has made sure in her days that couldn't happen in Britain for a long time.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

Klaus, you are so right.
What's been happening these past few years is an attempt to play catch up after years of under funding, not just in transport either.
It did not start with Maggie, but it greatly intensified under her, and Major.


User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2114 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 1):
Before the trains start to go ultra fast, they need to get Ultra Cheap...

Yep they may be too expensive. BUT before trains can go ultra fast in the UK you need COMPLETE al shiny new railway tracks.
No way you can go alot faster than 125 mph.
even that scared me sometimes cause it was bumpy like shit.

Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineDemoose From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1952 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

I get the train across Manchester, both to work at the airport and to uni in the centre. Everyday I am amazed at how busy these trains are to the point where people are queing just to get onto the platform and then when the trains arrive people cannot get on and have to wait for another one (even when they put 6 carriage trains on). I feel so sorry for people who are using the train as a one off, perhaps for christmas shopping or to get to the airport, as for those unfamiliar with trains the experience would no doubt be quite scary and brutal.

Before we get involved in building ultra fast trains across the UK, they need to sort out the overcrowded trains which people have to use on a daily basis for work. One accident on one of these trains just doesn't bear thinking about, the overcrowding is unbelievable and totally unsafe.

Mark



Take a ride...fly across the sky
User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 5):
The 1hr journey from my local station in manchester to the airport costs £5.60rtn. The trains run on time and are never too busy.

Must have improved in the last 3 years then! I used to wait for the 1711 Picc to Bolton train which was usually 3 or 4 cars. If that was late there was a 1715 train which was 2 cars. More often than not they would let the 1715 through first and then hold it at Salford Crescent while another 100 people try and squeeze on, then the 1711 would go through almost empty.

I guess living in Oldham, you have a train every few minutes going in either direction around the loop, so you never know whether they are late or not  Wink


User currently offlineDemoose From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1952 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Haha BigOrange thinks havent' changed, and the those two trains still run at those times as I'm usually on one of them. Its funny when the two pull up at oxford road station and people in the know realise that they will make one wait longer, so you see people running across the platform to change to the train which will get the green signal first! Madness.


Take a ride...fly across the sky
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 14):
I guess living in Oldham, you have a train every few minutes going in either direction around the loop, so you never know whether they are late or not Wink

Well, i do notice because its a 15 minute ride to Manchester in one direction or an hour and twenty in the other... I've only ever once taken the long route, and that was all because i was curious as to how long it would take...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 1):
It costs me £1.70 to take the FOUR MINUTE train journey from my local station of Three Bridges to Gatwick Airport... Its a friggin disgrace how much the train costs these days, especially in the south. I'm happy to say that reliability and on time performance is improving, but its at an expense that is beyond belief. How can TfL expect to get people on public transport if it costs an arm and a leg to use it?

This is miles outside TfL's area which on the Southern network extends about as far as East Croydon. Due to massive subsidies public transport within TfL's area is good value, certainly compared to Manchester.

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 16):
Well, i do notice because its a 15 minute ride to Manchester in one direction or an hour and twenty in the other... I've only ever once taken the long route, and that was all because i was curious as to how long it would take...

Just as well you did. If Metrolink ever gets extended I think part of the "long way round" will actually be closed.

Actually I'd much prefer to travel to work by train as I hate driving, however my local station, Walkden, only has trains to Victoria. Of course it would be easy to change at Salford Crescent, but of course there are usually no connections to the airport. In fact I mentioned this in an airport survey just a few days ago.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 7):
I'd also suggest connecting such a line with LHR to act as a feeder 'flights' reducing slot demand

Please not from Manchester! The last thing we need is another excuse for airlines to avoid serving anywhere north of Watford.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 17):
Please not from Manchester! The last thing we need is another excuse for airlines to avoid serving anywhere north of Watford.

What excuse? If they can make money doing something they'll do it. If they can't they won't. It's not a public service it's a business. This idea that they stop flying from regional airports because of a southern bias is complete nonsense.  Yeah sure



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1875 times:

Having been on the PVG to shanghai Maglev recently, at speeds of 431kph, I find the "speeds of up to 125mph" virgin voyager trains a tad slow, and as others said, expensive.

If the UK believes it can do it, it can... Just look at the olympic bid.

The UK transport infrastructure needs a major upgrade, which will transform the UK regional economy. Spain did this in the 90's, and is now reaping the rewards... China is doing it now, and will also benefit in the years to come. India isnt, and for this reason... its economic miracle will fail (in comparison to China). Lets not mention how creaky the US infrastructure has become (just look at New Orleans)



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1863 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 18):
It's not a public service it's a business.

And neither are railway companies. Why shouldn't they charge whatever fares people are prepared to pay? Neither are oil companies - they should charge as much for petrol as people are prepared to pay. No transport businesses in the UK these days are run for purely "public service" reasons.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1858 times:

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 20):
And neither are railway companies. Why shouldn't they charge whatever fares people are prepared to pay?

The difference with rail companies is that they get a whacking great subsidy from the public. Equally, the public pay for huge amounts of the infrastructure. None of this is remotely comparable to the aviation sector. Watching rail companies rack up the profits using our money whilst at the same time making a complete mess of the service is what winds people up.

I'll do you a deal: Give us all our money back, and then yes, they can charge what they want.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21407 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1851 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
None of this is remotely comparable to the aviation sector.

At least in Germany aviation is substantially subsidized through tax-free fuel. Road travel (and transportation) is massively subsidized with road construction and maintenance.

Demanding that only the railways should receive no subsidies at all while all their competitors are heavily subsidized is simply braindead, but still some people are demanding that the german railway should completely fund their tracks on their own.

Complete nonsense.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1843 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
At least in Germany aviation is substantially subsidized through tax-free fuel. Road travel (and transportation) is massively subsidized with road construction and maintenance.

Demanding that only the railways should receive no subsidies at all while all their competitors are heavily subsidized is simply braindead, but still some people are demanding that the german railway should completely fund their tracks on their own.

Complete nonsense.

Don't be an idiot.  Yeah sure

The private rail companies in the UK receive direct subsidies from the public purse. The airlines do not.

Why do they receive public subsidy? Because there is a service element involved, particularly in terms of what might be unsustainable routes commercially. In aviation, this doesn't happen.

No-one is demanding that rail subsidies are removed. Just pointing out the difference.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 17):
Actually I'd much prefer to travel to work by train as I hate driving, however my local station, Walkden, only has trains to Victoria

I used to have the same problem. Living in Leigh, I used to use Atherton station. Then when I bought a house I moved to Bolton because it was easier to get to work.

Then I got wise and moved 3000 miles away, where there is no train route from near my home to anywhere near work, unless I go to Newark first, so I drive 40 miles each way 5 days a week Sad


25 Post contains images Klaus : Well, aren't we nice again today? You might have noticed that I was talking about the situation in Germany. The principle of the matter was the issue
26 Post contains images Banco : You might have noticed that the thread is about the UK. You might also have noticed that my reply that you quoted was about the UK. You might further
27 Klaus : Not everything or everybody refers to you. Get used to it. The context of my reply was quite clear.
28 A340600 : Yep, shocking! Glad I have a pass that covers in-between these two stations. He can't, he's not in full time education anymore or at Uni but in a ful
29 Post contains images Banco : Right. When you quote me, you're not referring to me. Stunning.
30 Klaus : I made very clear what I was speaking of, as an extension of the immediate topic and as a follow-up to my earlier remark. If you choose to get miffed
31 Candid76 : Partly correct. Rail services in some areas of the country are very heavily subsidised because they serve a social need (however in many cases would
32 Post contains images Atco2b : I wouldnt ride Three-Bridges - Gatwick! Maybe...but what affect would it have on air travel?! No more orange Airbus' gracing the skies
33 Post contains images Pilot kaz : Beats National Express anyday I have found Southern cheaper than Thames link trains when I have to take that looooooooong ride to LGW
34 Post contains images Planesarecool : The only thing that annoys me about the trains down here is the continuous engineering works on the weekends. For example, today, I am going to Bristo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BBE Dates On Products In The UK posted Thu Nov 16 2006 14:57:30 by 53Sqdn
Good In The UK From NY posted Sun Nov 12 2006 12:40:09 by Kazzie
You See, There Are Laws In The UK posted Tue Oct 31 2006 13:44:07 by 53Sqdn
If I Buy A Dvd From Amazon In The UK.... posted Wed Oct 18 2006 20:38:14 by STLGph
Mobile Phone Advice In The UK posted Fri Sep 22 2006 23:28:39 by Cba
Getting A Fridge Quickly In The UK posted Fri Sep 22 2006 15:22:33 by Runway23
Becoming "Handicapped" In The UK posted Thu Jul 27 2006 12:47:44 by Runway23
Anyone Heard Cicadas In The UK? posted Tue Jul 25 2006 11:38:08 by Ba757gla
5 Favourite Cities In The UK posted Sun Jul 9 2006 21:43:54 by Christa
Questions About Cost Of Living In The UK posted Sat Jul 8 2006 05:38:22 by WindowSeat