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Good News About Iraq...on NBC?  
User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

I almost fell out of my chair last night while watching the NBC Evening News with Brian Williams. They ran a long piece about how upbeat most of the Iraqis are, about how 60% of them want us to stay there until the country is stabilized, about how business is booming, schools are running, etc. They interviewed an Iraqi woman who said the US was not an oppressor, that we had freed them.

Of course, when I picked up the LA Times this morning, I got just the opposite view...the same old negativity.

But what I found very interesting in the NBC report was a statement by Brian William. He said that the reason they have not been reporting the good news about Iraq is that "travel is still too dangerous"!

I sure miss the old war correspondents that went where they needed to go to get the truth.

Ernie Pyle, where are you when we need you...

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2412 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
But what I found very interesting in the NBC report was a statement by Brian William. He said that the reason they have not been reporting the good news about Iraq is that "travel is still too dangerous"!

According to a BBC report, after talking about how up-beat all the Iraqis were, the reporter explained that he was unable to go around talking to actual Iraqis because it was now much more dangerous to walk around than during Saddam's rule or during the early stages of the resistance. That sounds a little odd to me. It's so much better now, except that you can't even walk down the street without being attacked or kidnapped. The news coming out of Iraq appears to all be second or third-hand bullshit, and that includes both the positive and negative stories. However, I'm tempted to assume that if it's so bad that not even the journalists can get access then conditions must not be that good at this point.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 1):
However, I'm tempted to assume that if it's so bad that not even the journalists can get access then conditions must not be that good at this point.

I recognize the incongruity of saying good things about a place you can't travel in.

I think one problem is that the reporters won't (or can't) get out of Baghdad. The vast majority of the violence is in two or three hot spots, a small part of a very large country.

Also, there is this analogy: there are parts of Los Angeles I don't like to go to, not because everyone there is living a miserable life, but because there are a few people there who would wish me ill just because of the color of my skin. I imagine a reporter in Iraq might have the same feelings...


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

SATX - read this thread . . . . good thread on many points.

Some Good News Coming Out Of Iraqi BBC Poll (by WhiteHatter Dec 12 2005 in Non Aviation)

Here are more reflections on the same poll:

ABC Poll: Iraqi People Optimistic (by KC135R Dec 13 2005 in Non Aviation)

I see SATX, you still are among those that wear the blinders and have a closed mind . . .

Do you continue to maintain there is nothing positive occuring there? Can you explain away in your oh so negative outlook the very high turnout of voters in the Iraqi elections? Can you explain away in your negative agenda why there were no serious explosions, bombing, attempted killings, attempted bombings, during the election process? Can you explain away the record number of Sunni's that voted yesterday?

I'll be the first to admit there is still a shit storm there, but I'm also not so damned chided that I can't see the positive side of the sotry either.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I'll be the first to admit there is still a shit storm there, but I'm also not so damned chided that I can't see the positive side of the sotry either.

Was there really any chance of you not seeing it? And quit talking down to me like I'm your kid. I'm no more blind to the positive events in Iraq than you are to the negative events in our environment. Get off your high-horse for a change.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 4):
And quit talking down to me like I'm your kid.

If the boot fits . . . .

Quoting SATX (Reply 4):
I'm no more blind to the positive events in Iraq than you are to the negative events in our environment.

Well, then common ground. I know the environment is extremely important and you actually see positive things in Iraq.  faint 

You better grab ahold of something FAST, I think the world might stop spinning on that note. Wow!


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
He said that the reason they have not been reporting the good news about Iraq is that "travel is still too dangerous"!

What a load of horseshit!


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Well, then common ground. I know the environment is extremely important and you actually see positive things in Iraq.

I see positive signs in Iraq. However...

1. I also know that such large-scale conflicts are rarely resolved so quickly. Just look at Israel and Palestine, Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, Indonesia, and much of Africa. Such divisions run deep, and it will take more than a few elections and photo opportunities to change that.

2. Even if Iraq eventually becomes the sound democracy that's hoped for, and that's by no means guaranteed, we still caused roughly 30,000 deaths for a lie. The fact that our administration and some of the domestic media keeps trying to focus on the silver lining doesn't impress me very much.

3. Only extremely negative poll numbers seem to have gotten us anything resembling a modicum of truth and honesty out of this administration. Hopefully the poll numbers will remain low enough for Bush to give up on bullshitting us for the rest of his term. The opaque barrier he put between his own citizens and the truth is a real low point in the history of the United States.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
Even if Iraq eventually becomes the sound democracy that's hoped for, and that's by no means guaranteed, we still caused roughly 30,000 deaths for a lie.

Fess up...are you really Ted Kennedy??

 Wink


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
1.

Quite agree. I don't have any fantasies that this will all be over in a year, or in ten. I've said in the past - many times - the US/UK will likely maintain troops there- of some strength or another - for a decade. And it will take much longer to build the Iraqi military and police into a viable stand alone force. I have no illusions otherwise. Some might, and if that's the case they are blind and ignorant.

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
2.



Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
lie

Lie= redflag  Prove it.

That said: Focusing on the positives while continuing to report on everything, can't hurt to give the REAL picture instead of the usual  redflag  negative "bad news is all that sells" picture.

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
3.

I'm quite glad PotUS has made the speeches he's made lately. I wondered how long he could go without at least acknowledging the intel was grossly inaccurate.


With that - I'm off to the airport.


User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

Anderson Cooper is running some good articles from Iraq on CNN.
Yesterday he talked to some soldiers who were pissed about the lack of coverage of the positives in Iraq.

One of the other CNN correspondants had a great and uplifting democratic liberal campainging person story that went great until the statement, if I did this in the Sunni controlled areas I'd be dead. So basically same old same old.
The 60% of Shihites loves us, the minorities hate us.....
But at least they still hate each other too  Smile

This country is as stable as gasoline near a bonfire.

I wish them luch ,but they want to hurt each other just as bad as they want to hurt us over there.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

I wish the leftists who keep demanding the "truth" from the administration would be as demanding of the media for the truth about the situation on the ground over there.

User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 10):
Anderson Cooper is running some good articles from Iraq on CNN.
Yesterday he talked to some soldiers who were pissed about the lack of coverage of the positives in Iraq.

Well, that only took Cooper a few years to get around to doing. Good to see the bandwagon jumpers from the media.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 11):
I wish the leftists who keep demanding the "truth" from the administration would be as demanding of the media for the truth about the situation on the ground over there.

 checkmark  yes 

I agree completely.

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
Well, that only took Cooper a few years to get around to doing.

 checkmark  yes 

Again, I agree. He's good at seeing the new trend emerging and is ready to jump on it. Too bad that most of this stuff was happening right after we took Saddam out of power.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 10):
Anderson Cooper is running some good articles from Iraq on CNN.



Quoting CasInterest (Reply 10):
This country is as stable as gasoline near a bonfire.

Probably about as stable as...oh, I don't know...Germany after WWII? Japan after Hiroshima??

Why can't anyone understand how hard this is? It ain't a 30-minute sitcom...


User currently offlineDan-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 14):
Why can't anyone understand how hard this is? It ain't a 30-minute sitcom...

"30 minute Sitcom" would be a fairly accurate portrayal of what Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were saying 3 years ago - part of their effort to get us into war.

Were they lying or merely incompetent? Ask those members of the administration to tell you the "truth".


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
I sure miss the old war correspondents that went where they needed to go to get the truth.

Yep. Where are the Robert Capa's of the journalistic world today?

For those who don't know who Robert Capa was, he was a journalist/photographer who went through the Spanish Civil War and WWII on the front lines. Here's a famous shot of his, taken when he came off one of the very first landing craft to hit Omaha Beach on D-Day.



Here's a little history on the guy.

http://www.skylighters.org/photos/robertcapa.html


User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 15):
30 minute Sitcom" would be a fairly accurate portrayal of what Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were saying 3 years ago - part of their effort to get us into war.

Were they lying or merely incompetent? Ask those members of the administration to tell you the "truth".

OK, lets see...

Your house is on fire. You call the fire department and the chief shows up and says "no problem, we can have this fire out in ten minutes".

Then, due to unforseen problems (maybe you've got a 55 gallon drum of gasoline in the basement) it ends up a bigger fire than he thought and it takes a couple of hours to get it out.

Was he lying? Was he incompetent? But more important...if he was either, should he not have put out the fire?


User currently offlineDan-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 17):
Your house is on fire. You call the fire department and the chief shows up and says "no problem, we can have this fire out in ten minutes".

Then, due to unforseen problems (maybe you've got a 55 gallon drum of gasoline in the basement) it ends up a bigger fire than he thought and it takes a couple of hours to get it out.

Was he lying? Was he incompetent? But more important...if he was either, should he not have put out the fire?

Great anecdote.

Except the house wasn't on fire, but you insisted it was. You show up and spray water all throughout the house until it's pretty much uninhabitable. You don't understand why the homeowner is pissed, but you offer to build him a new one at no cost to him, but at a price 3-4 times the going rate for new homes.

You've never built a home before, and during construction, some neighborhood kids use you for target practise. The price of building the home rises exponentially.

All the while you mutter to yourself that the house might have been on fire, or was about to burst into flames, or whoever told you the house was burning got it wrong.

Either way, you're fucked.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 18):
Except the house wasn't on fire, but you insisted it was.

Yeah, you're right, everything was just hunky-dory in Iraq. The UN was just goofing when they passed all those resolutions, and close to 2 million people really didn't starve or get tortured to death.


User currently offlineDan-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
Yeah, you're right, everything was just hunky-dory in Iraq. The UN was just goofing when they passed all those resolutions, and close to 2 million people really didn't starve or get tortured to death.

You didn't mention either of the primary reasons we were told made it absolutely necessary to invade Iraq right now. Did you forget what those reasons were?  sarcastic 


User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 18):
Except the house wasn't on fire, but you insisted it was.

I don't think there is any question there was a fire.

Bill Clinton said there was a fire.
John Kerry said there was a fire.
The UN said there was a fire.
Hillary Clinton said there was a fire.
John McCain said there was a fire.

The only people that said there was no fire were Iraq's business partners the French and the Germans.

So there was no question there was a fire. The only question there has ever been was how bad the fire was, and what needed to be done to fight it.

We can argue all day (and have) over whether a different course of action would have been better, but it's all conjecture. We're here now. Let's deal with that.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 14):
Probably about as stable as...oh, I don't know...Germany after WWII? Japan after Hiroshima??

No, not even close. There was nothing even remotely approaching the chaos in Iraq in either of both countries back then, despite much larger devastation.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
The only people that said there was no fire were Iraq's business partners the French and the Germans.

...and the vast majorities in the populations of pretty much every country on the planet except the USA and Poland (please note the absence of the populations of Britain, Spain and Italy here!).

...and - which makes it all the worse - they turned out to be right; There was indeed no fire.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
So there was no question there was a fire.

No, there is no question that there was no fire. Only a political necessity for some politicians and their apologists to claim there was one.

The only reason why this is still such a big topic is that you and your leaders want to reserve the right to storm any other home you may want to in the future, again with complete disregard whether there may be a fire or not.

The threat of a repetition of the whole disaster is what makes the lack of insight so dangerous.


User currently offlineDan-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
We're here now. Let's deal with that.

Agreed. Hopefully this election will spur the Iraqis to take the reins and handle their own security, but their performance thus far makes me sceptical.

Any comparison to Germany and Japan is bogus: those countries did not have a two-thousand-year-old three-way religion-based tug-of-war to struggle with after liberation. Democracy ain't gonna happen there; the best we can hope for is an Islamic state that does not ally itself too closely with Iran.


User currently offlineExarmywarrant From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 23):
Any comparison to Germany and Japan is bogus: those countries did not have a two-thousand-year-old three-way religion-based tug-of-war to struggle with after liberation. Democracy ain't gonna happen there; the best we can hope for is an Islamic state that does not ally itself too closely with Iran.

My comparison to Germany and Japan was not meant to imply everything is the same. But I lived in Japan not too long after WWII and if our media today had covered that country then they might very well have predicted American occupation for decades...the economy was in shambles, unemployment was rampant, their infrasutructure was in ruins (sound familiar?). But look at what happened.

Germany at the same time was struggling also. But we stood by them and they pulled it off.


25 Dan-Air : Germany and Japan did not have a well-armed and funded insurgency, or any competing religous dogma to impede progress. Even so, it took a long time f
26 CasInterest : I think I would draw the comparison as Germany after World War 1. This country is tearing itself apart at the seams , and has factions within ready t
27 Banco : Given subsequent events, it doesn't necessarily make much difference, but with regard to the UK, this statement is incorrect. In the run-up to, and a
28 ANCFlyer : Agree . . . What I have yet to figure out - other than hypothesis - is why the Iraqi forces - both the mliitary and police - haven't taken a more act
29 Banco : I suspect that most people agree now that disbanding the Iraqi army in the wake of the war was an error, even given the problems that would have occu
30 ANCFlyer : I tend to think that it is a combination of all points I raised in reply 28. I still have reservations about disbanding the Iraqi Army during the init
31 Banco : They're reluctant to do that, because whenever an occupying force sets a timetable publicly, the number of attacks on them tends to rocket. It's more
32 ANCFlyer : I'm reluctant to do that as well . . . I'm certainly against a set in stone timetable. Certainly it can't be within the next 12 months. And as I've s
33 Post contains links Venus6971 : here is the guy you need to read, he is a independent imbed journalist who doesn't stay in the green zone http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
34 Slider : WRONG! The comparison to Japan is entirely valid in the context you frame it... Japan was an Imperial nation, one with an Emperor, not to mention a s
36 Dan-air : Japan had a 2000-year history of ethnic & religious strife going into WWII? They mounted a significant insurgency against the US army of occupation f
37 Post contains images FXramper :
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