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US House Votes To Wall Up Mexico Border  
User currently offlineN506CR From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2004, 147 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5357 times:

Ok I'm not an often-poster but I noticed no one had brought this thread for discussion yet... specially since most a.netter's just seem to enjoy it so much.  duck 

The wall is here... (and I am 101% agreeing with it... wrap the whole thing!)

The House of Representatives voted to build a wall along the US border with Mexico to stop illegal immigration.
...
The US border with Canada was not forgotten. The bill "includes a requirement for the Secretary of Homeland Security to conduct a study on the use of physical barriers along the Northern border."

The US-Mexico border is 3,200 kilometers long. (2000 miles)


http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14050366

So this is what Mexico thinks...

"The government of Mexico ... believes that a reform which only considers security measures will not contribute to a better, more integral bilateral management of migration issues," the Foreign Relations department said in a statement.

which is, if you think about it, true. Immigration (illegal) is not going to stop, they will just keep looking for new places to cross the border (if there's any "new" place to discover yet...)...

Mexico argues existing barriers built along heavily crossed sections of the border have not stopped migrants from crossing, rather have pushed them through more desolate, dangerous areas.

Now I really wish this could be done...

House leaders wouldn't allow a vote on a volatile proposal to deny citizenship to babies born in the United States to illegal immigrants.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3531388.html

Why not??? I mean most countries have strict guidelines regarding acquisition of citizenship. The US shouldn't give it out so easily. I read in the local newspaper that this represents 10% of the babies born in the US every year, about 400,000 brand new could-be-President-runners whose parents ain't-even-driver's-license-holders. And then they want the goverment to pay them the living soul of their expenses. Wtf?? Plus, I've met a couple of kids like this, and although they enjoy so much the fact they didn't do sh** to be Americans and were one since their very first tear, and go around "laughing" on their all-visa-denied-relatives the fact that they just can't be denied entry or there ain't almost any possible way in this planet they were forced to leave what their relatives somehow see as 'paradise' that they ain't even allowed to enter, when these kids visit grandma back in Hidden Hole Town somewhere in the middle of a mountain (without their parents who ain't got a SSN yet after those 1X years, of course), 95% (okay maybe too much but that's what I've seen so far) of them spend their lifetime complaining that they don't like the US, they want to move, yada yada yada. I am able to point out names of kids like this, and they annoy the hell out of me  banghead . And as far as this policy goes, couples will try to have 'American' babies, well, they'd rather wait 18 years for their sons to 'claim' them or whatever that's called, than don't have the least chance to somehow become legal in their lifetime.
And I say all this mostly because the people who emigrate (let's stay on the un-educated, un-professional immigrants) to the United States ain't the best coins in our country's piggy bank, ok, this does not applies to everyone. In the time I have spent in the US, I have had to deal and get to know some of these illegals, and know who they are: lazy ones, high school (or even elementary) drop-outs, problematic people, people with 0 knowledge, barely speak any english, alcoholics (I was amazad to see the rate of alcoholic immigrants - well, yes, I know Americans do it too, but come on we're immigrants we've got to keep the low profile, the US ain't our "turf" - gotta stick to the "foreigner's rule"), people who ain't as honest as you wish, and BS like that. And if you ask me, I would say 9 out of 10 fall under the described category. And their sons are going to be just like them, in most cases of course. Also, intelligence, IQ, say it how you like it, relates in important proportion to the parents', and guess what, those high school drop-outs that put up the wall of the buildings and make your nice gardens in the US ain't no smarta$$es at all. So it ain't like the elite of the 'breed' is being taken to the US... sorry but... nope.
If it was my decision, I would bring back all those who are there, and send those who are here now, again, I know there are some good ones out there, and bad ones still here as well. Because those who were able to give a little more effort here are the ones who would really contribute to the United States, unlike those easy-way low-wage conformers (ok, low-wage for US standars, high for,in this case, Central American standards).  yes 

[after the speech]dude... wake up... he's done[/after the speech]

Well let's get this started. Here's the link to a Mexico+wall keyword search in Google where you might find other articles.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mexico+wall&btnG=Google+Search

Can't wait to see some blue-eyed blondies under the charming desert sun putting up the fence.  stirthepot 

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

"Mr. Bush, Tear down this wall!"

User currently offlineVenezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1428 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5340 times:

Well if a baby were to be born here isn't it unconstitutional to deny him citizenship, doesn't the constitution say everyone born here is a citizen?

If not what citizenship do they get then?



ROLL TIDE!!!
User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

Actually, this is an issue near and dear to my heart. My wife is from Mexico and my daughter is a US citizen. My wife is a naturalized US citizen BECAUSE SHE GOT OFF HER DEAD ASS AND STUDIED AND TOOK THE TEST TO BECOME A CITIZEN!!!

Believe me, the wall would be a good thing. I say "would be" because I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure some fanatical left-wing immigration-rights group will file suit in a federal court and it will be tied up until I'll never see it built in MY lifetime! Same kind of thing that is happening with "The Minutemen", a group that is just reporting what they see, not taking any direct action against these CRIMINALS that are crossing illegally (is there another word for those breaking federal laws?) LULAC and other left-wing organizations are strongly against people sitting legally at the border and reporting the activity they see. Is that right? I sure as hell don't think so!


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 2):
isn't it unconstitutional to deny him citizenship, doesn't the constitution say everyone born here is a citizen?

 checkmark 
14th Amendment:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It would have to be repealed by another amendment, which I don't think stands the slightest chance of being ratified.

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 2):
If not what citizenship do they get then?

A lovely parting gift?  Silly


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

And someone asked the other day in another thread if there was Anti-US sentiment here in Canada.

For over 200 years we have had an undefended border between the US and Canada. Putting a wall up is a defence.

To those who will say "It's for homeland-security", you know what? It goes both ways. They can come from the US into Canada just as much as they can the other way. (I do REALIZE they're just studying the Canadian border option, so don't jump all over me haha)

And, for 9/11 preachers, remember.. when the terrorists entered the US prior to 9/11, it was American border guards who granted them access to the US.

I think this is a terrible decision, and I think that it will further hinder relations between Canada/Mexico and the US.

Sad.. this administration needs to go.

Supporters of Bush have *no* idea how quickly their rights are being taken away. My god we need to wake up.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 5):
And someone asked the other day in another thread if there was Anti-US sentiment here in Canada.

For over 200 years we have had an undefended border between the US and Canada. Putting a wall up is a defense.

Are you comparing the Mexican border to the Canadian? Do you really need an explanation?

The wall is a nothing. It will not be effective and will be about as useful a barrier as a pair of panties on a prom date. The wall is about public perception. The wall is for the US populace away from the border who have no idea of the ineffectiveness of walls and fences to illegals. It might make the ignorant feel safe.

So what is the difference between the Canadian border and Mexico's? Illegals. While illegals do contribute large amounts of surplus money to social security (which will most likely be eradicated in 15 years) they use more tax funds in the infrastructure than they pay. The 2nd generation illegals put strains on education, hospitals, as well as the general infrastructure. It is also estimated that Mexican illegal aliens send back over $14 billion a year to Mexico. This is the 2nd largest source of income for Mexico only behind oil. Do you think that Mexico wants to stop illegal immigration? Of course not, this is why they have just recently started dual citizenship for Mexicans in America, to keep the funds flowing in. Some Mexican states produce pamphlets on how to cross the border as well as how to use the system to acquire an education illegally. Perhaps Mexico should turn the mirror on themselves and their own Southern border. They deport over 150,000 illegal Guatemalan every year with no remorse or hesitance.

On the other hand, this wall is ridiculous. A wall will do nothing to stop the flow and will only be a waste of tax payer money. The only pragmatic solution is to increase the amount of work visas for Mexican immigrants while severely punishing employers for hiring illegals. A $50,000 fine per instance of hiring each illegal will deter any kind of illegal employment. When there are no jobs, there will be no illegals. A negative side to this is the fact that prices on certain goods and services will increase, however so will the lower and medium end wages.

If you ask me, both the Mexican and American governments have been turning their heads to illegal immigration because it helps big business in the US and is a lot of money for Mexico. Its time to make things legit though, and start enforcing fines to those who hire illegals. This will also eradicate abuses to the illegals as those under work visas would be protected by the US Department of Labor.

[Edited 2005-12-18 07:36:44]

User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
about 400,000 brand new could-be-President-runners whose parents ain't-even-driver's-license-holders.

I wouldn't worry about that, since you have to be very white in order to win. I think FOX has been doing background checks on every candidate's whiteness before the party picks a nominee for the last few elections.



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

Sadly they didn't vote to "wall up the border", only to put up an easily penetrated fence.
A true wall is needed to keep the illegal immigrants and other criminals out of the country, preferably a wall with some minefields and alligator filled ditches to back it up.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 8):
A true wall is needed to keep the illegal immigrants and other criminals out of the country, preferably a wall with some minefields and alligator filled ditches to back it up.

Yeah, why not just charge the barbed-wire fence with high-voltage, use
some minefields, attack dogs and shoot anyone in sight...  Yeah sure

Deja vu, anyone???








User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

I find it utterly ridiculous that the U.S. government makes you fly through hoops to come into the country legally, but has an unsecured border to the south where millions cross unimpeded.

My mother (a Swiss citizen), was once held up in Europe for 4 months because of some expired card or other, in spite of having been married to an American for 40 years, having a home in the U.S., and having children who are U.S. citizens. In the end, it took a personal note from a Texas Senator to the state department to get her paperwork through.

I say eliminate the illegal immigration, and ease up on the restrictions on legal immigration.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 6):
The wall is a nothing. It will not be effective and will be about as useful a barrier as a pair of panties on a prom date. The wall is about public perception. The wall is for the US populace away from the border who have no idea of the ineffectiveness of walls and fences to illegals. It might make the ignorant feel safe.

Then what do you suggest? Good intentions? A wall will at least make it harder.

I would also suggest a new policy that would replace bussing over captured illegals over the border. Put them on a plane for the capital city of their origin. If they have to start from Mexico City, they can't try so often.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

If the United States is such a horrible place, why do so many people want to come here?


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

The wall might be a slight a deterrent but it won't solve the problem, or likely put a dent in the problem, of illegal immigration. Unless of course it's thirty feet high, electrified, and we maintain some sort of aggressive response to those crossing . . . which we absolutely cannot do.

The folks coming in from the southern borders in the US will find a way to breach the wall, and they will continue coming in to the US.

Increased patrols and electronic sensors and increased enforcement with a quicker ride home; that's a better prospect. That's the right answer.

Will we get every single illegal? Hell no. The sheer numbers of crossings every day will make that impossible. A concrete wall is not, however, the answer. That's like putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound - it might look clean, but it's not going to do the job.

. . . .

As for the northern border with our Canadian friends . . .

I'm torn about how to enforce illegals crossing there. As I'm familiar with the Alaska Canada border, I can tell you patrolling that with any human force is untenable. I have seen apprehended illegals at the Port of Entry at the Alaska Highway. It was fairly simple for them to cross - just exit a vehicle on the Canadian side two/three miles shy of the border. The vehicle with the legal driver makes the crossing and picked up his friends two miles inside Alaska. There is no fence, no electronic frontier, nothing. The remaining border with the US is similiarly easy to cross.

What to do about that? I don't see a thousands of miles long fence between us and our Canadian friends. It will require due diligence on the part of the Canadian and US border forces to reduce. But it will never stop.

Any increase in border protection on the part of the US alone will appear to be overly aggressive and unfriendly towards our Canadian friends, and I'm certainly not for that. What is the answer on the US/Canada border? I don't know.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

I am rather surprised that the USA has NOT taken decisive steps to secure its southern border in a serious way. A lot has been reported about people captured by US-authorities when trying to get across the Mexican-US border, but far less about the uncounted ones who succeeded and whom I guess that they were/are the majority. The new conditions may then force the Mexican leadership to press for REAL solutions, and the Mexican president will likely then be on less friendly terms with the leader in the White House. Somebody in Washington might even tell the Mexicans that a decent telephone-system (among other things) in Mexico might be wonderful for potential investments in that country.

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5152 times:

A strange aspect is that the USA criticizes Syria for not having its borderline with Iraq under control, but needs three decades to start to get its own southern border under control ! very very very strange !

User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 9):
Deja vu, anyone???

Yeah, that's like saying Nazi concentration camps are the same thing as a county jail. You are being totally absurd and putting the issue into your own twisted context by showing the pictures you showed side-by-side. You know DAMNED WELL that the wall put up in Berlin and along the East-West German border, as well as the border between the Koreas is to keep people IN rather than legitimately protecting a soverign state from intruders.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 9):
Yeah, why not just charge the barbed-wire fence with high-voltage, use
some minefields, attack dogs and shoot anyone in sight...

I TOTALLY AGREE!!! I also say that the US Border Patrol should be equipped with Cobras and Apaches to patrol the entire border with! Radical idea? Hardly! An invasion is in progress and it must be stopped!


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 15):
An invasion is in progress and it must be stopped!

Really, I've heard drag queens state it less dramatically.

There is a tolerable level of illegal immigration that the U.S. will overlook. I thought that was obvious. In another decade or so we'll probably even have another amnesty.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16855 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5140 times:

There's a big difference between building a Wall between the US and Mexico and the Berlin wall, people trying to cross into the US from Mexico will not be shot at from either side.

The Mexican Army is not shooting at folks trying to cross into the US, in fact the Mexican Government openly supports people subverting US laws by illegally crossing into the US. The money Illegal immigrants in the US sends back to Mexico is a staple to the Mexican economy to which the Mexican Government does not want to stop.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Really, I've heard drag queens state it less dramatically.

That's because the drag queens you hang out with aren't here on the front lines like I am.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 15):
You are being totally absurd

I am and my post was intended to be a bit of a hyperbole, however the symbolism of the fence is striking and only supporting whover said in the other thread that the US under Bush are becoming more and more 1984ish.

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 15):
You know DAMNED WELL that the wall put up in Berlin and along the East-West German border, as well as the border between the Koreas is to keep people IN rather than legitimately protecting a soverign state from intruders.

But the population behind the Iron Curtain / North Korea is fed with government propaganda that the fence is there to protect them from those "bad guys outside". Sort of like the hysteria you just demonstrated:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 15):
An invasion is in progress and it must be stopped!



Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 15):
also say that the US Border Patrol should be equipped with Cobras and Apaches

A country engaging so often in self-fooling chest-beating contests of how "free" they are, shooting people on their border. Wonderful!
Why don't you just change the ius soli concept of gaining US citizenship, which leads to a massive abuse, to a ius sanguini one?


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 18):
aren't here on the front lines like I am.

I will let them know to look you up for proper competition then.  Wink



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
House leaders wouldn't allow a vote on a volatile proposal to deny citizenship to babies born in the United States to illegal immigrants.

See below post

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 2):
Well if a baby were to be born here isn't it unconstitutional to deny him citizenship, doesn't the constitution say everyone born here is a citizen?

It is absolutely unconstitutional to deny citizenship to any person who is born on the soil of the United States (this includes Puerto Rico BTW)

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
but has an unsecured border to the south where millions cross unimpeded.

You know, the southern border of the US is not exactly the most welcoming place (not that the Canadian border is so great either).

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 15):
An invasion is in progress and it must be stopped!

You have got to be kidding me. That kind of statement kills any sort of credibility you may have in making an argument.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Really, I've heard drag queens state it less dramatically.

 rotfl  rotfl 

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 18):
That's because the drag queens you hang out with aren't here on the front lines like I am.

As a native Californian who has known many Latin immigrants, with and without papers, th only "front line" I see is the one that is picking the strawberries you sliced over your Cheerios this morning. Perhaps you should think about that, and the celery you are having with dinner, the bok choy in your chinese food and countless other things before you start using terms of war.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
th only "front line" I see is the one that is picking the strawberries you sliced over your Cheerios this morning. Perhaps you should think about that, and the celery you are having with dinner, the bok choy in your chinese food and countless other things before you start using terms of war.

It amuses me when people that don't have a legitimate point attempt to legitimize illegal activity.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
As a native Californian who has known many Latin immigrants, with and without papers,

I don't care. No one can be closer to the situation than I......

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 3):
Actually, this is an issue near and dear to my heart. My wife is from Mexico and my daughter is a US citizen. My wife is a naturalized US citizen BECAUSE SHE GOT OFF HER DEAD ASS AND STUDIED AND TOOK THE TEST TO BECOME A CITIZEN!!!

And with most of her family still in Mexico, they sometimes come here to visit LEGALLY. On the other hand, I also know a LOT of illegals and most of them want to be citizens. That still does not change the fact that they are here ILLEGALLY.

Now, back to the strawberries issue. This is also not a legitimate argument because this is a market-driven economy. If the illegals are not there to do the job, someone else will do it. Don't be ignorant enough to think that illegals are doing the jobs that Americans would not do. I'm SO sick of hearing that in the media and it's entirely NOT TRUE! Yes, prices might go up on some things because those who hire the illegal laborers would have to hire from a different labor market. But it WOULD work out! It does in other countries, it would here, too.

P.S., I don't eat strawberries, Cheerios, celery or Chinese food.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5057 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
The folks coming in from the southern borders in the US will find a way to breach the wall, and they will continue coming in to the US.

Increased patrols and electronic sensors and increased enforcement with a quicker ride home; that's a better prospect. That's the right answer.

 checkmark Anybody who has actually spent time along the southern border knows this. Physical barriers do not stop the crossings, they barely delay them. I've seen a brand new fence w/ razor wire and concrete barriers subverted w/in 12 hours. The only thing that shifts the flow is actual presence of people, or knowledge of a quick response. I think that is the answer for the Canadian border as well. We don't need a fence or anthing else to the north, but well thought out and strategiclly placed electronic monitoring, with a coordinated response plan when there is an illegal crossing.

The hyperbole and hysteria on both sides of the issue is incredible. Those crossing illegaly are breaking the law, and thus are criminals. No amount of rationalizing will change that. At the same time, our economy is partially built on their presence. Eliminating them, while it won't cause the collapse of the western world, will change our way of life. Like any problem, treating the obvious symptoms, without treating the underlying cause, won't do anything but temporarily surpress the issue. As long as there is a significant chance that an illegal will be able to get across the border, make money, and send it home, they will continue to come. We have to eliminate what makes it profitable for them to take the risks (jobs) as well as make it ever more dificult to actually make the crossing.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineFokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 6):
A wall will do nothing to stop the flow and will only be a waste of tax payer money.

Tax payer money is money that was forcibly removed from our economy. It doesn't do us any good unless it's being spent and put back into the economy.

I wouldn't care if they spent billions on building a wall, and then spent billions more ripping it down. The more tax payer money that is spent on American workers and companies, and removed from government control, the better off we are.


25 Post contains links Fumanchewd : I have spoken to border patrol agents as well as illegals who laugh when people introduce the idea of the wall stopping people. All they do is dig un
26 Gilligan : Yeah, but who would want to unless there is a casino or a hockey game nearby? The next Presidential election is in 2008, just under 3 years from now.
27 Post contains links Fumanchewd : A large majority of them use forged documentation or false social security numbers, meaning that pay is taken from their checks but never collected.
28 StuckinMAF : The way it works is that most of them are either paid straight cash under the table (day labor), or they are paid as contractors and none of the dedu
29 ME AVN FAN : To take the second question first, none. The Syria/Iraq border is more than 600 kms long and Syria is a small country of only 17 mio people. And such
30 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Having spent a considerable amount of time at/near San Ysidro - the most heavily trafficked crossing in the US - I can tell you . . . I know Border P
31 Gilligan : It is the Armys job to defend the border. PC does not apply. Don't want to use the Army? Then use the Marines. Is it anymore ridiculous than expectin
32 N1120A : I made a completely legitimate point. The US economy, particularly the massive agricultural sector, benefits massively from the work of latin america
33 Gilligan : Spoken like a true Frenchman ready to cut off some more heads!! lol Why don't you worry about your own immigrant problem first? You know, the one tha
34 ANCFlyer : With this thought I will completely concur . . . . it's time to think out of the box where illegal immigration applies. Posse Comitatus would apply,
35 N1120A : Spoken like a truly short-sighted person who has not a clue about me. Seems you forget that we owe US independence largely to the French. If you patr
36 Pbottenb :
37 CaptOveur : The wall won't get it. Any moron, with the right motivation, can climb a wall. What would fix the problem is political pressure to make Mexico not be
38 Pbottenb : dictionary.com definition of WAR: war n 1: the waging of armed conflict against an enemy; "thousands of people were killed in the war" [syn: warfare]
39 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Not quite . . . . Patroling the border in and of itself is not an Act of War . . . . aggressively doing the same is not an Act of War. And the Consti
40 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Patrolling has never been an act of war. What confuses people is when that patrolling crosses the border and begins pushing into the opposite country
41 Airlinerfreak : I am sorry but this is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. The people of Mexico are still going to find ways of crossing the border. Also, I believe t
42 Fumanchewd : Ooooppppsss. There goes the middle class! Yes. As I've said, increase work visas and increase employer fines.
43 Searpqx : More regime change on the horizon? Instead of dictating to Mexico how they should be, how about we just enforce our own laws. Including the ones that
44 Jwenting : That level is (or rather should be) ZERO. And those amnesties should exist of a free trainticket back to Mexico rather than 10 years in prison to ear
45 Oly720man : So which, erm, donator, will get the contract to build the fajita curtain?
46 Gilligan : If you're going to wear the flag..... Paid off in full 1917-1918, 1941-1945, 1945-1954. Your troops operating inside of your border cannot create an
47 Stall : Do you really think that will have any effect on illegal immigration ? If I were living in a poor country I will take all risk to get any job in a ri
48 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I have to agree, N1120A, that we have more than redeemed ourselves with the Louvre people.
49 Dougloid : Because it's in the constitution, knucklehead. Is it just me or do most of the experts on all things american hail from Europe? It sure seems that mo
50 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Welcome to the last decade.
51 StuckinMAF : It's not just Europe, we also have "instant experts" in states far removed from the border who have no idea at all what the real situation here "on t
52 LTBEWR : A wall or fence system is needed in some areas not so much to keep illegal entry to the USA from Mexico, but also to save people. Many now cross into
53 ANCFlyer : It does, completely. It's irrelevent whether the Illegal Immigrants are citizens or not. The fact is that Posse Comitatus specifically forbids in alm
54 Jaysit : Will it be made of straw, wood, or brick? Will someone be able to huff, and puff, and blow the whole thing down?
55 Superfly : Funny thing is that IF this wall is build, it would be build by illegal immigrants because of the cheap labor.
56 Post contains links StuckinMAF : That's damned funny! A lot of posters on this thread have said that building the fence (wall, whatever) won't do any good because determined people w
57 Trvlr : 1) Build the wall. It's a good idea. 2) Make it a lot easier for people to come and work here, and, eventually, seek citizenship. Immigration is a goo
58 StuckinMAF : Citizenship is an even better thing! Citizenship is not just a piece of paper, though, as some think. It is being a productive part of society and ac
59 N1120A : You seem to forget 1812-1815 and 1860-1965, not to mention the discount we got on Louisiana No they can't and no they aren't Pretty much any immigrat
60 KaiGywer : Food for the desert animals. Circle of life... (cruel, yes, but they shouldn't be there in the first place, so they know the risks associated with be
61 MD80fanatic : Shhhhhhssshhh, that is still a secret. We have to go through the "common currency" phase next (the "Amero").
62 Post contains links Cairo : Since I believe in the words of Jesus, I believe that no nationality is better than any other and no nationality deserves protecting versus any other.
63 Captaink : 1. Mexico is poorer than the US and has certain economic problems but Mexico isn't a slum. (I live here, I can tell you.) 2. The wall would not fix t
64 Fumanchewd : 80-85% of illegals being Mexican is an accepted number by most sources including Homeland Security/Border patrol.
65 AM744 : Yep. It's sad to hear our incompetent government trying to protect 'their' rights in the US, as if they cared about them, yet they DO NOT grant eleme
66 Post contains links TACAA320 : I can't hear anybody saying a single word about this wall >>>>>> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article330677.ece or thes one in Spai
67 Captaink : Words like guerrilla fighters and militants appear frequently in the examples you gave. The situation is a little different between the USA and Mexic
68 Slider : True- I wonder what will or if that law will evolve in the context of a national security threat. I would advocate using our military for Federal bor
69 TACAA320 : Sorry, but both Mexico and the U.S. are sovereign countries. They can do anything their Constitutions allow them to do in their own houses.
70 Captaink : Ok now you are talking about something different. The corruption from many levels is very evident and is quite a reality. It is very sad, because fro
71 Post contains images ClassicLover : I had to laugh at this! Everyone knows it's incredibly hard to get citizenship in the US. Hell, even getting a working permit is hell on earth. The U
72 TACAA320 : The Melilla one [between Spain and Morocco] is basically for immigration purposes. Did you check the links?
73 MaverickM11 : Amen. Mexico has so much potential--natural resources, fantastic tourism, hard working people...ostensibly it should be a country that does very well
74 Slider : Kudos to both points---it is mind-blowing what a superb country Mexico could be if they'd get their shit straight. Whether we like it or not, the US'
75 MaverickM11 : I feel the same way about most of Africa but that's a lot of "shit" to get straight....but simple things like property rights and less corruption wou
76 FDXMECH : You're right. I suggest in addition to a wall, we contruct several superhighways to funnel illegal immigrants directly into Canada. My question. Will
77 Post contains images Slider : At least I wouldn't have to keep paying that stupid departure tax out of CUN anymore.
78 Nosedive : Yeah, to me this boils down to the fact that we can build the wall and "hope" it solves the problem, or we can work with Mexico to develop Mexican re
79 KiwiNanday : As South Park puts it.... "They took our jobs!" We need to be far harsher on Illegals, because they're bringing our country down. I agree that illegal
80 Post contains images Stirling : Well, considering it is a desert afterall - no water; better make that a ditch filled with scorpions and rattlesnakes.
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