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UK Rail Fare Hike A Joke?  
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

SCHEDULED rail fare rises of up to nine per cent today took effect. A standard class open return between London and Edinburgh will be rising from £206 to £220. For the first time the cost of a ticket from London to Manchester has gone over the £200 mark. Isn't this a bit excessive? Wouldn't it be cheaper to fly? Are the price increases really going to make a difference to services?

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTFSPhoto From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Thread starter):
Are the price increases really going to make a difference to services?

I very much doubt it, the service as a standard passenger i think personally is crap. Im not saying that the staff are bad, but the services, the actual trains as all shambles.. I only ever travel on passenger trains when im trying to get somewhere with work to pick a locomotive, train up or whatever and i always sit in first class and dont pay a fare.. however, i remember the last increase here, a return ticket from Scunthorpe to Manchester Airport was £29.50 and then it went upto £35 standard class.. hell ill let you on my freight train for £30!  rotf 

Lew


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

Isn't it great when you can get anywhere in the UK in first class for £2? Yes indeed it is Big grin

London-Manchester: £2 first class
London-Edinburgh: £2 first class
Penzance-Wick: £2 first class

 Smile

Stephen


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1288 times:

Is the time saved by not going to an airport not worth it?

How many train rides in the UK are more than a couple of hours?

What are the services offered?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
Isn't it great when you can get anywhere in the UK in first class for �2? Yes indeed it is Big grin

London-Manchester: �2 first class
London-Edinburgh: �2 first class
Penzance-Wick: �2 first class

Smile

Stephen

That is an even better discount than my 33,333333 % from my YP railcard.

How'd you get that?

REgds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1275 times:

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
Isn't it great when you can get anywhere in the UK in first class for £2? Yes indeed it is

London-Manchester: £2 first class
London-Edinburgh: £2 first class
Penzance-Wick: £2 first class

Blimey the priv fares have gone up since my day, when I had my priv card it was £1 fare anywhere in the country.  Wink



British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 1):
Im not saying that the staff are bad, but the services, the actual trains as all shambles.

I'm not so sure... I agree that the price hikes are excessive and probably unfair, but at the same time the services are much better now than they were. Passenger rolling stock has been replaced on pretty much the entire south-east suburban network, the WCML has 53 brand new Pendolinos, the ECML is having all its trains refurbished, First is refurbishing its Great Western HST fleet, MML has refurbished its HSTs and bought the Meridians... the list goes on.

The main problem is that a lot of intercity services which carry a lot of passengers, such as Liverpool-Norwich, some south-western Wessex Trains routes and the entire Transpennine Express network, all use rolling stock that's just not designed for high-demand intercity routes. It's passengers on these routes which have the biggest grounds for complaint. I think it's unfair, however, to say all services and the trains themselves are a shambles - as a passenger, it's ten times better than it was ten years ago.



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

Wouldn't it be also cheaper to drive, for those that are able to anyway. I thought that the intended effect was to keep people out of their cars, and into public transport. Seems like the other way around.

Back in January when I visited, it was about £14 return from where we were staying in Luton, to St. Pancras/Kings Cross. That seemed rather much back then as the exchange rate was almost £1=$2.



Yay Pudding!
User currently offlinePilot kaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1252 times:

London - Manchester over £200??? Christ! I got it for £55 RTN less than 24 hours before travel.... And on new Years!

User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

To be honest, I have no current experience of trains since I drive. The last time I used a train was Wigan to Euston about 15 years ago that I paid about £18 for a return ticket!

But when you see airlines like Jet2 and BMI offering cheap flights it seems pretty daft.  Confused


User currently offlinePilot kaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1232 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 9):
But when you see airlines like Jet2 and BMI offering cheap flights it seems pretty daft

Jet2 yeah maybe but to LGW only...

Bmi not any more.... I looked at flights the other day. £18 RTN and £46 taxes which made it to around £64.... When they was a frills airline you paid no more than £52.... With better times also and a business class service on offer.

You Might as well take BA now......


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

Just made the journey from Rugby to Chippenham (via Bham New St and Bristol TM) and the service was dreadful.

Bham to Bristol train was packed (Penzance train, Virgin). I booked a first class seat to ensure i got one, got on the train and low and behold, my seat wasnt reserved! Whats more, the train was 150% packed, people were standing in the aisles and toilets, you literally couldnt move (which made getting off interesting).

They really need to sort it out, its not worth the price.


User currently offlineSQNo1 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 687 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

I had a terrible experience with Virgin at the end of the last year between Exeter St. Davids and Penrith.

Exeter - Oxenholme

* Train arrived 10 minutes late at Exeter.

* Seat Reservations Not Working, due to them not being updated following a derailment at Gloucester. Customer host did sod all to help.

* No Buffet Available between Bristol Temple Meads & Birmingham New Street due to passengers cramming the buffet for space.

* Derailment At Gloucester made journey an hour longer.

* Missed connection at Oxenholme, unhelpful staff on train who gave us no info aobut other connecitons. Very helpful person on platform ho got us complimentary taxi to Penrith.

Penrith - Preston

* Good journey, no problems.

Preston - Exeter

* 45 Minutes late!

* Only four coaches for a long journey as Glasgow To Penzance, your bloody mad!!

* Overcrowded all the way, people were not allowed to board at Bristol Temple Meads, wait for the next train, if your'e going beyond Plymouth, tough shit!

* Arrived Exeter 57 Minutes late, meant we were not entitled to a refund on the tickets, which cost £82.80 return.

Locally Wessex Trains are no better, on the Exeter-Exmouth line they keep putting only one coach on peak hour trains, where over 300 college students plus the 9-5 mob use.

With Regards,
Alex.B


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

Also internationally seen the English train prices are rediculous. Anywhere, even in high wage/high cost countries like Switzerland, the Netherlands, Scandinavia etc. a typical 100 km/1 hr traveltime for the sector, roundtrip is no more then 20 euro (13 GBP).


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1194 times:

I used to do day saver returns from Birmingham New Street to London Euston for about £30 in 1988. What the hell happened? Other than the breakup of BR...

Mark


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1177 times:

What is changing is the amount of direct subsidy TOCs get for their fares. There was also chronic underinvestment for decades under both parties.

At least now there are newer trains, although most are far too small thanks to the increase in daily train journeys.

It's time this was built

http://www.central-railway.co.uk/


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1165 times:

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 5):
Blimey the priv fares have gone up since my day, when I had my priv card it was £1 fare anywhere in the country.

Ah, but was that first class?  Wink Mind you on my local trains, you sneeze, the headrest cover falls on the floor, and first class becomes standard class. Its pretty good on long distance services because the complimentry food and drink i take advantage of would usually tot up to me more than the actual fare if i payed for them.


User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

Quoting Pilot kaz (Reply 8):
London - Manchester over �200??? Christ! I got it for �55 RTN less than 24 hours before travel.... And on new Years!

You'd have got a Saver Return ticket, not a Standard Open Return. There's limits on when you can user a Saver, it's valid on most trains but not usually peak-hour morning ones.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 11):
Bham to Bristol train was packed (Penzance train, Virgin).



Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 12):
No Buffet Available between Bristol Temple Meads & Birmingham New Street due to passengers cramming the buffet for space.



Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 12):
Only four coaches for a long journey as Glasgow To Penzance, your bloody mad!!

The people to blame for this are the government's now-disbanded Strategic Rail Authority (SRA), who were responsible for organisation of the network before it finally dawned on the people at the top just how crap they were at running a railway. For example, those of you who have had bad experiences on Virgin mentioned above, you'll have been on Virgin Cross Country routes which use Voyager trains. As I understand it, when Virgin took over the franchise in the mid-90s, it was them who ordered, after consultation with the SRA, the 4- and 5-car Voyagers with the intention of running double the number of services using shorter trains than the unreliable and poorly-maintained HSTs they replaced. Of course, brand shiny new trains resulted in stimulating passenger growth to the tune of 80%+ over five years or so (can't remember the exact statistic) so the trains were just as packed as before. Virgin wanted to buy extra coaches for the Voyager fleet, were prepared to raise the necessary finance themselves and the SRA's response was "no", despite the case put forward. There was no particular reason given, it was just "no".

As a result of the SRA's bone-headedness we're seeing ludicrous situations where the Voyagers are suffering from unreliability themselves (manufacturing defects, apparently) and VERY severe overcrowding. I've never seen anything like Leeds station at rush hour, when about 300 people tried to cram on to an already-full train that couldn't barely fit them on if it was empty. Now the SRA has gone, hopefully we'll start to see some improvements because we have Network Rail - people who actually know how to run a railway - in charge, as opposed to a load of wannabe politicians with second-rate business degrees.

But, of course, these things take time and for that reason I agree that these fare increases are unjustified. We should be seeing the improvements before we start paying for them (especially as we're ALREADY paying for them through tax), because in the long run it's not going to get anyone out of their cars or aircraft and on to trains. Go3Team is right - it is cheaper to drive in most cases.



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineAirworldA320 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1138 times:

I do n't care I just use my free rail passes, do n't cost me a penny (anywhere in the UK on the rail network) unless I use all 16 boxes and then I get 75% discount after they have been used up!!!!!!!


Pull off kid, it ill go.
User currently offlineTFSPhoto From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1136 times:

Quoting AirworldA320 (Reply 18):
I do n't care I just use my free rail passes, do n't cost me a penny (anywhere in the UK on the rail network) unless I use all 16 boxes and then I get 75% discount after they have been used up!!!!!!!

That's the only way to do it these days!

Lew


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

Anyone know if theres flights from Bristol to Bham International at all? I would love to fly rather than take the train  Smile

User currently offlineAirworldA320 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1126 times:

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 19):
Quoting AirworldA320 (Reply 18):
I do n't care I just use my free rail passes, do n't cost me a penny (anywhere in the UK on the rail network) unless I use all 16 boxes and then I get 75% discount after they have been used up!!!!!!!

That's the only way to do it these days!

Lew

Yeah but Im so cheeky to ask the conductor if I can use first class (being Rail staff) , most of the times I get away with it!!!
 Big grin



Pull off kid, it ill go.
User currently offlineTFSPhoto From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1119 times:

Quoting AirworldA320 (Reply 21):
Yeah but Im so cheeky to ask the conductor if I can use first class (being Rail staff) , most of the times I get away with it!!!

Why not go a step futher? i do it all the time just go sit in the back cab.. saying that i know most of the TPE staff around this area so they have no reason not to let us poor underpaid EWS drivers in! And if they get snotty, ask them for their name, crew base and managers name and i assure you they will shine your shoes for you! Done it manier time!!

If i ever pass up your way ill give you a blast.. keep a eye out!



Lew


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1108 times:

It's the commuters who tend to get crucified.

If you work in London you don't really have much choice but to take the train, and the operators know it. The commuters are the ones who usually get hit with the biggest price rises, and also have to put up with the worst service.

The Brighton-London trains are an absolute joke. The trains are crammed solid, and you haven't a hope of getting a seat in the morning. The price is now over £3,000 a year for that same appalling service - animals aren't allowed to be transported in the conditions commuters must put up with, not counting the fact that they charge you an absolute fortune to park your car at the railway station too.

But if you work in London, what can you do? You can't drive in, you're stuffed. My wife ended up giving up her job in London because she couldn't put up with the journey any more. Her choice of course, but she liked the job itself.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAirworldA320 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 22):
Why not go a step futher? i do it all the time just go sit in the back cab.. saying that i know most of the TPE staff around this area so they have no reason not to let us poor underpaid EWS drivers in! And if they get snotty, ask them for their name, crew base and managers name and i assure you they will shine your shoes for you! Done it manier time!!

If i ever pass up your way ill give you a blast.. keep a eye out!

Next time you are on the Carlisle-Milford coal run give us a shout, would n't mind a cab ride!!!!!, BTW if you do go through Skipton, Green lights all the way mate!!!



Pull off kid, it ill go.
25 TFSPhoto : Last time i went through skipton was earlier last year, i hauled a charter to carslile and then had 2 steamers haul back to york and then i hooked up
26 Pe@rson : There clearly must be considerable reform in terms of reliability; punctuality; seat allocation; comfort; and so forth. Although more time-consuming a
27 AirworldA320 : Returned, and if you ever want to visit York IECC just give me a shout and I will arange it!!!
28 Post contains images Mhodgson : Does that apply to the rest of us who are interested in trains? The main problem with public transport in the UK, is that apart from the bus and the
29 TFSPhoto : Yeah that would be cool, ive got some time off late January so ill definatly give you a shout. Would this also be open to a friend of mine who's a co
30 Cxsjr : Anyone remember Bedford Bricker?
31 Planesarecool : Just a general question, shouldn't people who work in London have their companies pay for their travel? My dad has to go up to Birmingham about once e
32 Cxsjr : People who work in London do so of their own volition. It may be just the location of their chosen employer or the fact that they can earn more in Lo
33 Post contains images Cornish : So true - and Southwest Trains which i use into Clapham Jct and Waterloo is one of the worst as well. Just got a weekly ticket today (didn't get a mo
34 Cxsjr : .... I've never missed anything less!! I have to say I found commuting out of Waterloo at 5:30pm abhorrent, especially having just come off the Water
35 Banco : And this is one of the issues that those who say people should get off the roads and on to the trains overlook. There simply isn't the capacity on th
36 Post contains images Cornish : And at least in your car you're guaranteed a seat Its true though - there is an incredible number of trains going out of the likes of Waterloo and Vi
37 Planesarecool : Down here in the south, train lengths are very good. 3 of the rush hour trains on my local line (Arun Valley, or Mid-Sussex line) are 12 coaches, and
38 Post contains images BMIFlyer : You have to pay my wages somehow Lee
39 TFSPhoto : Then that means we have to pull off to let you guys through! Rahrr! Lew
40 LGW : Hi all, I too use the Arun Valley line operated by Southern and am very impressed, the new trains are nice, on-time performance is fantastic and as t
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