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Why I Am Glad I Have A Mac  
User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

Amongst other reasons;

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/0d644d5e-7bb3-11da-ab8e-0000779e2340.html

"The news marks the latest security setback for Microsoft, the world’s biggest software company, whose Windows operating system is a favourite target for hackers.

“The potential [security threat] is huge,” said Mikko Hyppönen, chief research officer at F-Secure, an antivirus company. “It’s probably bigger than for any other vulnerability we’ve seen. Any version of Windows is vulnerable right now.”

The flaw, which allows hackers to infect computers using programs maliciously inserted into seemingly innocuous image files, was first discovered last week. But the potential for damaging attacks increased dramatically at the weekend after a group of computer hackers published the source code they used to exploit it. Unlike most attacks, which require victims to download or execute a suspect file, the new vulnerability makes it possible for users to infect their computers with spyware or a virus simply by viewing a web page, e-mail or instant message that contains a contaminated image.

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheredbaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2186 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Holy bonkers !!!!

Glad I have G5..!!!



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3599 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

I have used Macs at university for about a year now to write papers and do some serious photo editing and I can't stand them. They are so much more inconvienient to use.

One mouse button is atrocious
Hard to quickly open and switch between files and folders
No easy taskbar
You can't "minimise" things like on PC's

Those are my biggest gripes.


User currently offlineTom12 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 1078 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
They are so much more inconvienient to use

I totally agree i dont understand the systems on the damn thing. Our modern languages department uses them but when you are in there it takes half the class to try and get the thing going....the other half to close it down

Tom



"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

You'll simply need to use them properly. They are not Windows machines (thank Jobs! )

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
One mouse button is atrocious

It's no big deal - even though I personally prefer multi-button mice (new Macs come with the multi-button-plus-scroll-ball Mighty Mouse by now as well). It's simply a matter of getting used to. And under MacOS X you need context menus a lot less than under Windows. Drag & Drop actually works!

<Command> + Click will still give you a context menu, or simply click and hold the mouse button for a moment.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
Hard to quickly open and switch between files and folders

Huh? I can't even begin to understand your problem here. Try using the column mode, for instance (<
Command> + 3).

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
No easy taskbar

The Dock does actually offer a lot more than that measly task bar where you can't find anything as soon as you've got a few windows open. Running applications appear in the Dock, with all windows of each application neatly collected under the application's icon. Not the indistinguishable mess as under Windows.

<
Command> + <Tab> navigates among running applications (there's a neat tool called Witch that extends this to navigation among all individual windows either globally or within the current application - highly recommended).

Then there is Exposé, which developers under all other systems are trying to emulate to varying degrees since Apple introduced it:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/

It makes a huge difference in practice. It's a big step down when I have to work on a system without it by now.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
You can't "minimise" things like on PC's

That's what the yellow window button is for! If you want to hide an entire application with all its windows, use the "hide application" menu item or press <Command> + H.

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 3):
when you are in there it takes half the class to try and get the thing going....the other half to close it down

It takes a lot to damage and misconfigure a Mac to that point, especially a current model under MacOS X.


You just need to be open to the fact that you're not having to deal with Windows here, so things will work differently, in most cases they're simpler and more straightforward.

[Edited 2006-01-03 07:12:50]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2061 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
One mouse button is atrocious



I LOVE my Mighty Mouse!





Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
Hard to quickly open and switch between files and folders



To test his Mac, a guy I know opened thirty-something programs in an attempt to lock it up. It lagged a little, but did the job just fine.

A Windows machine would have been glowing orange and smoking.  Wink




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3186 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2059 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
One mouse button is atrocious
Hard to quickly open and switch between files and folders
No easy taskbar
You can't "minimise" things like on PC's

Don't like the one button mouse? Plug in any two button mouse and it will work. Apple even has their own now, the Mighty Mouse. If you have a one button mouse, Control-click will get you the same contextual menu that right clicking does.

How is it hard to open a folder? Same double click as on Windows, and Windows doesn't have anything like the column view.

What you call a Taskbar we call a Dock.

And yes, you can minimize. See that little yellow button on every title bar? Click it and watch your window slide into the Dock. But who needs to minimize when you have Expos�? F9 and you can see every window, and click the one you want to bring it to the front.

This WMF exploit is huge. Microsoft hasn't patched it yet, and every version of Windows back to 98 are known to be vulnerable, and it is believed that everything back to 3.0 may be vulnerable. And this isn't just a theoretical exploit, the exploit has been spotted in the wild in actual use, including in spam email.

http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=994
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Metafile_vulnerability


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

I'm about to shoot mine at this point. (HP) My next computer will be a MAC, I assure you.

User currently offlineNHGrafx From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 3):
Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 2):
They are so much more inconvienient to use

I totally agree i dont understand the systems on the damn thing. Our modern languages department uses them but when you are in there it takes half the class to try and get the thing going....the other half to close it down

Tom

All you people need to do is get used to them. Someone using a Windows based system for years and years like me (15 years) will have trouble at first with a MAC, but after a bit of use and getting used to, its not a problem. I am a graphic designer/artist and MAC is king in my field, even though I don't actually own one, I use them quite a bit and like them better than Windows for most things.

As for people complaing about MAC's at their schools or colleges not working good, thats no surprise since so many people use them and things always get screwed up by people messing with things. Same goes with Windows based computers at schools or colleges. At my college, we have one lab with top of the line Windows based workstations, yet many of them run like an old 486 because so many people have screwed things up.



Is it weird I have a RemoveBeforeFlight pitot cover on my car rear view mirror?
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

Ever tried solving a PDE using Mathematica / MATLAB's symbolic toolbox / any Mapel-based software? Compare the results to the results you get from a Wintel machine, then understand why no engineer uses a Mac.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

What are you talking about? Those packages are based on the same sources as the versions for other platforms. And if they produced false results under MacOS X they simply would not be offered (and the compilers under MacOS X would have to be broken so severely that practically nothing could work at all which is obviously not the case).

I don't use any of these packages, but many other people do - including many scientists and engineers.


User currently offlineLesMainwaring From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 541 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

after 10-plus years with a PC, i finally had enough in november (after the 3rd PC i had in 3 years died an unceremoneous death) and switched to a Mac ... i love my powerbook g4


I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
User currently offlineNotar520AC From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Mac really does have a nice system- we use G5s for our school yearbook & they perform great. It's funny though how everyone freaks out because the simplicity is such a shocker.


BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

When you've had a painful upbringing under the Windows monopoly, at some point you're simply conditioned to expect everything to be tedious, difficult and frustrating.

In earlier times most people had contact with several different systems and had an idea of what was fundamental and what was specific to a certain system. Nowadays people are learning only to cope with Windows and believe they know how computers generally work - big mistake!

[Edited 2006-01-03 19:22:11]

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
What are you talking about? Those packages are based on the same sources as the versions for other platforms. And if they produced false results under MacOS X they simply would not be offered

Maple-based packages and MATLAB toolboxes work alright on a Mac, but partly because Maple was written for Wintel machines, and partly because of the way programmes like MATLAB and Mathematica work. Back in the day, Mathematica and MATLAB needed to be programmed in pretty basic C, now they all have built in functions where in a few lines the kernel will take over and give you an answer.

The problem is that the Maple and Mathematica kernels are slower on a Mac and will produce false results every now and then. Now, I admit I don't like Maple, and don't really use Mathematica, but we tested out both a Powerbook G4 and one of our standard Wintel machines (512kb RAM, P4 3GHz) running XP Pro, and the Mac had problems with quite a PDEs and even some integrations.

There's a reason Macs aren't used in the engineering industry.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
Maple-based packages and MATLAB toolboxes work alright on a Mac, but partly because Maple was written for Wintel machines, and partly because of the way programmes like MATLAB and Mathematica work.

Oh my. Sorry, but you're exposing your complete and utter lack of understanding how such things actually work with nonsense like that.

You're apparently remembering the FDIV-disaster Intel had a few years ago (the then-current Pentium versions actually screwed up certain mathematical operations and returned false result values which is pretty much catastrophic for the reliability of any mathematical application!) and from that you're simply guessing that the PowerPC CPUs Apple uses for the Macintosh up to now would certainly have even more severe malfunctions to account for your observations.

But sorry, that disaster was PC only. PowerPC CPUs have been developed to higher standards than that and have not been afflicted by any comparable maladies as the Pentium.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
Back in the day, Mathematica and MATLAB needed to be programmed in pretty basic C, now they all have built in functions where in a few lines the kernel will take over and give you an answer.

Sorry, but that sentence makes no sense whatsoever in real-world technologies. It seems you cobbled together things you may have heard a while ago and now tried to fit to your argumentation.

Without knowing the specifics of the respective packages, I can assure you almost with certainty that "the kernel" (the execution core) of a mathematical package will very much be implemented in C or C++.

And that has nothing whatsoever to do with where an application has been implemented first - the whole point of C and C++ has always been cross-platform portability. And although it is possible to screw that up, such a screwup will have pretty similar consequences regardless where the original code has been written for the first time. You seem to believe in magical powers instilled in certain platforms, but in the real world it just doesn't work like that.

Your claim above is completely nonsensical, as anybody with any experience in software development will attest.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
The problem is that the Maple and Mathematica kernels are slower on a Mac [...] we tested out both a Powerbook G4 and one of our standard Wintel machines (512kb RAM, P4 3GHz) running XP Pro

And you reached this monumental conclusion by pitching a PowerBook G4 with 1.67 GHz maximum clock speed in the latest models - your testing machine may well have been slower than that - against a 3 GHz Pentium?  crazy 

The G4 is no slouch, but your conclusion is completely worthless under those circumstances. You would have had to make such a comparison with a decent G5 machine to have any merit whatsoever, with halfway comparable system setups too.

One of the primary reasons why Apple is right now switching to Intel CPUs is exactly IBMs unwillingness to make a low-power mobile version of the G5 for use in the PowerBooks, so they were stuck with slower G4s for quite a while already. That is about to change, but you tested a speedwise outdated Mac against a current PC and then drew nonsensical conclusions about the software versions from that.  crazy 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
[...] and will produce false results every now and then. [...] and the Mac had problems with quite a PDEs and even some integrations.

There are several possibilities here; Cross-platform comparison isn't always as simple as the layman imagines, although application developers could make it seamless in most instants (Microsoft Office, incidentally, is a relatively positive example here). But in all too many cases, applications demand extra attention when transporting data and documents across platform boundaries.

Some of the potential pitfalls between a PowerPC Mac and a Pentium PC could very well have played a role in your tests:

Binary data is encoded differently between the PowerPC (in its default mode used under MacOS) and the Pentium. Every single numerical multi-byte value must be transposed when transporting binary data between the platforms. Some applications do that transparently, some don't care and leave it to the user to know about that and to use textual data formats instead.

Textual data uses different end-of-line formats under Windows, Unix and MacOS. All Mac applications I've used so far recognize all of them, but some packages may differ here and may run into problems.

• It is not that rare (if unfortunate) that the same application has quirks in its setup on different platforms which need to be properly synchronized in order to make true cross-platform usage possible.

• It is obviously necessary to compare identical versions of the same package on both platforms. Comparing a buggy older with a fixed newer version will of course give you discrepancies.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
There's a reason Macs aren't used in the engineering industry.

Fortunately there are quite a few engineers who don't make as many mistakes as you do.

Better luck with whatever you're working on - I hope you're less sloppy with that!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):

You're apparently remembering the FDIV-disaster Intel had a few years ago (the then-current Pentium versions actually screwed up certain mathematical operations and returned false result values which is pretty much catastrophic for the reliability of any mathematical application!) and from that you're simply guessing that the PowerPC CPUs Apple uses for the Macintosh up to now would certainly have even more severe malfunctions to account for your observations.

Great! None of the Pentium machines have any problems with mathematical operations.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):

Without knowing the specifics of the respective packages, I can assure you almost with certainty that "the kernel" (the execution core) of a mathematical package will very much be implemented in C or C++.

And that has nothing whatsoever to do with where an application has been implemented first - the whole point of C and C++ has always been cross-platform portability. And although it is possible to screw that up, such a screwup will have pretty similar consequences regardless where the original code has been written for the first time. You seem to believe in magical powers instilled in certain platforms, but in the real world it just doesn't work like that.

You know nothing about the packages, but then you go on to talk about how they work? Right...

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
And you reached this monumental conclusion by pitching a PowerBook G4 with 1.67 GHz maximum clock speed in the latest models - your testing machine may well have been slower than that - against a 3 GHz Pentium? crazy

The G4 is no slouch, but your conclusion is completely worthless under those circumstances. You would have had to make such a comparison with a decent G5 machine to have any merit whatsoever, with halfway comparable system setups too.

Your editing of my quote notwithstanding, I'm talking about factors of 2 and 3 times slowly, and significant computational errors.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
There are several possibilities here; Cross-platform comparison isn't always as simple as the layman imagines, although application developers could make it seamless in most instants (Microsoft Office, incidentally, is a relatively positive example here). But in all too many cases, applications demand extra attention when transporting data and documents across platform boundaries.

Some of the potential pitfalls between a PowerPC Mac and a Pentium PC could very well have played a role in your tests:

• Binary data is encoded differently between the PowerPC (in its default mode used under MacOS) and the Pentium. Every single numerical multi-byte value must be transposed when transporting binary data between the platforms. Some applications do that transparently, some don't care and leave it to the user to know about that and to use textual data formats instead.

• Textual data uses different end-of-line formats under Windows, Unix and MacOS. All Mac applications I've used so far recognize all of them, but some packages may differ here and may run into problems.

• It is not that rare (if unfortunate) that the same application has quirks in its setup on different platforms which need to be properly synchronized in order to make true cross-platform usage possible.

• It is obviously necessary to compare identical versions of the same package on both platforms. Comparing a buggy older with a fixed newer version will of course give you discrepancies.

As someone who has to use packages like MATLAB as well as software not even avaliable for a Mac, I couldn't care less. All I care about is speed and accuracy of results, as well as easy consultation with my colleagues. A PC provides that. A Mac doesn't.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Fortunately there are quite a few engineers who don't make as many mistakes as you do.

Really, is that so? I don't know any mechanical or aeronautical engineers who use Macs regularly for work. None of the major engineering companies I've worked for, which is a few, use Macs. Most of them can't use Macs, the software just doesn't exist! The only people I know who use Macs have to use PCs in their professional life at some point. Most companies and colleagues I've worked with just don't want the hassle of using a Mac and a PC when they can just use PCs.

I'm not a software engineer, I couldn't care less how my computer works, just as long as it does what I want it to do. PCs do, Macs don't, sorry!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):

Better luck with whatever you're working on - I hope you're less sloppy with that!

Less of the insulting attitude, please.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
Great! None of the Pentium machines have any problems with mathematical operations.

...after the catastrophic bug had been fixed in newer iterations of the Pentium and the affected models received crutches to hobble along on (patches to be installed so the error was circumvented, at least in a patched system).

You are drawing the wildest conclusions in ways you don't really understand from tests whose circumstances you apparently didn't have under control as much as would have been necessary.

Actually know what you're talking about or be more careful with your conclusions!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
You know nothing about the packages, but then you go on to talk about how they work? Right...

I qualified my statements accordingly. What I know is how applications are usually implemented, which options developers have and which failure modes exist under various circumstances (and which ones don't).

What you were talking about simply doesn't make any sense at all for any kind of application. Wild conjecture without the knowledge to back it up.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
Your editing of my quote notwithstanding, I'm talking about factors of 2 and 3 times slowly

I didn't "edit" what you claimed, I merely separated your claims about a) speed and b) discrepancies to properly answer each one in turn.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
[...] and significant computational errors.

You were apparently unable (and not even caring) to properly control the circumstances of your superficial test. Simply throwing a few files at a hastily installed complex package is not a test, it's a quick-and-dirty first glance. And as such worthless for a well-founded statement.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
As someone who has to use packages like MATLAB as well as software not even avaliable for a Mac, I couldn't care less. All I care about is speed and accuracy of results, as well as easy consultation with my colleagues. A PC provides that. A Mac doesn't.

In your case apparently not at the first lazy attempt, so you promptly gave up and reveled in the expected confirmation of your prejudice. Well, that's simply sloppy work. Maybe you can get away with that elsewhere, but when you're drawing outlandish claims from it, expect to be called on that.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
I don't know any mechanical or aeronautical engineers who use Macs regularly for work.

Your claim was "nobody does" and "it's impossible". Both are false generalizations from your personal observation and from one superficial attempt. Sloppy work.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
I'm not a software engineer, I couldn't care less how my computer works, just as long as it does what I want it to do. PCs do, Macs don't, sorry!

When I'm discussing topics where my expertise is limited, I don't deduct absolute claims from my limited observations and limited insight. Very simple, and standard procedure in any scientific or engineering field.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
Less of the insulting attitude, please.

Don't lean out of the window if you can't hold on to the ledge. Carelessness breeds accidents.

[Edited 2006-01-04 00:30:05]

User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
(512kb RAM, P4 3GHz)

what was it? a calculator with a Pentium sticker on the pack? 512 kb??


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Actually know what you're talking about or be more careful with your conclusions!

How about this for a conclusion?

The software nor the economics nor the will exists for most industries to use Macs.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):

What you were talking about simply doesn't make any sense at all for any kind of application. Wild conjecture without the knowledge to back it up.

Fortunately, the following is not conjecture.  Smile

The software nor the economics nor the will exists for most industries to use Macs.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):

I didn't "edit" what you claimed, I merely separated your claims about a) speed and b) discrepancies to properly answer each one in turn.

So you edited what I said?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
You were apparently unable (and not even caring) to properly control the circumstances of your superficial test. Simply throwing a few files at a hastily installed complex package is not a test, it's a quick-and-dirty first glance. And as such worthless for a well-founded statement.

The comparison we carried out was pointless anyway because the software nor the economics nor the will exists for most industries to use Macs. Nevertheless, simply running code in a programme that's meant to work on a Mac is a valid test, like it or not.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):

Your claim was "nobody does" and "it's impossible". Both are false generalizations from your personal observation and from one superficial attempt. Sloppy work.

Would you like me to clarify further? No major industry outside of video editing and development, picture editing and development and software engineering uses a Mac. Can you name any major companies outside of the media industry that use Macs? They're expensive, have poor speed compared to PCs and have very poor compatability. They're just not a good industrial computer.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
When I'm discussing topics where my expertise is limited, I don't deduct absolute claims from my limited observations and limited insight. Very simple, and standard procedure in any scientific or engineering field.

My claim all along has been this, Macs can't do complex computations as well as a PC. Because of this, their cost and lack of comparability, they're not used at all in the engineering industry, and probably no where in any serious scientific company.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. People like you can moan about how great Macs are, but the evidence (market share) suggests they're not.

What's with the highly insulting tone? It's a computer, for crying out loud. Your petulent little attacks on people who don't love your your precious computers seem rather petty. All I'm telling you is my experience, and the experience of every single engineering company, which is that Macs aren't useful.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

You're starting with your personal disinterest and disdain for a platform you don't know - which is perfectly okay as a personal preference - but your mistake is that you derive absolute claims from that. Not from actual observation (absolute claims require complete knowledge which you don't possess), just backwards from your preference.

It is quite obvious that PCs dominate most areas, but the domination is almost nowhere as absolute as you claim.

The "inability to do complex calculations" is utterly laughable - that claim betrays a level of incomprehension of technology and products which simply disqualifies itself. Quite the same with the rest of your claims. With your obvious disinterest it's pretty redundant to go through each of them individually. Most have been debunked before in here and elsewhere or are easily verifiable at various web sites.

You can very well not know and not care. Fine with me. But you can't expect to be taken even halfway serious when you're making nonsensical claims about "never" "everywhere" "impossible" and the like.

And if you have followed me in various discussions you could have known that I have a rather strong dislike of attempts to spread disinformation. Different opinions are certainly debatable, but plain old disinformation is unacceptable. Regardless whether it's in a political, social, scientific or technological context.

If you want to make absolute claims, be certain and have evidence to back it up, not just lazy prejudice!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
You're starting with your personal disinterest and disdain for a platform you don't know - which is perfectly okay as a personal preference - but your mistake is that you derive absolute claims from that. Not from actual observation (absolute claims require complete knowledge which you don't possess), just backwards from your preference.

The knowledge I posess is this, I don't know any single engineering company in the world that uses Macs. I know no scientific companies or institutions that use Macs outside of the media industry.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):

And if you have followed me in various discussions you could have known that I have a rather strong dislike of attempts to spread disinformation. Different opinions are certainly debatable, but plain old disinformation is unacceptable. Regardless whether it's in a political, social, scientific or technological context.

Just what disinformation have I spead? Jesus Christ, I said I have personal experience of Macs not working as we like them. I went on to say that Macs aren't used in the engineering industry, because of this, their cost and their lack of compatability.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):

If you want to make absolute claims, be certain and have evidence to back it up, not just lazy prejudice!

So you've stopped defending Macs to the death, and instead bitch about me?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

Make your own choices as you see fit. No problem.

Just leave out the hyperbole. You don't know even the basics about the Mac platform, so just avoid making claims about it you can't support.

There are multiple solutions for many applications - engineering and scientific ones among them: Macintosh Products Guide | Science

And they're obviously being used: Apple - Science

The only way that would be reconcilable with your claims would be that they all were just created for fun and without ever selling a single copy to actual users. Which would be rather odd considering the various version numbers.

Both Mathlab and Mathematica list no platform-dependent issues, so they're distributing Mac versions to customers who apparently manage to use them as intended. Which is not surprising when you understand a bit or two about multiplatform software (especially when implemented in Java).

Your problem is not your personal preference, your problem is your false generalization from a superficial and incidental experience. It's that simple.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

I played around with my cousins Mac laptop (powerbook?) a while back. It was pretty slick. My newer PC just bit the dust so I'm using my 4 year old P3 machine with a 10 gig hard drive that still runs normally, I guess they don't make PC's like they used to.

I think I could get used to using a Mac, they're just so bloody expensive  Sad

Kris



Word
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21384 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

The main difference is that Macs are priced a bit below PCs which are built to similar quality standards - what's missing is mostly the price parity to low-quality PCs.

Although an iBook or a Mac mini isn't really that expensive - especially if you consider the value of the software package coming with it. You can't really compare them to a bare PC without any actually usable software and with a crippled (or stolen) copy of Windows.


25 Post contains links APFPilot1985 : http://www.top500.org/lists/2005/11/basic numbers 15 and 20 say that you are wrong. Best part about them? The run regular OSX server and cost million
26 2H4 : Spot-on. 2H4
27 AC773 : First of all, bless you Klaus. Secondly, I am really tired of people making performance-based comparisons of computers based on clock speed alone. I t
28 Post contains links 777236ER : Have you even looked at the products they're offering? Most of the ones designed for 'mechanical engineering' are simply MATLAB and Simulink control
29 Dougloid : Gawd....I thought this discussion was over with five or ten years ago. Everyone who ever had a Mac has had a love-hate relationship with Apple. I had
30 Post contains images Klaus : So what exactly are you using your multi-core Opteron system for? That's what you've got, right? Far more expensive than the current top model from A
31 GusNYC : What do you mean with that?
32 Klaus : For most people that's indeed the case. I've never claimed that it would definitely work for you, but the point of contention was your unfounded clai
33 777236ER : The market speaks for itself. No engineering companies, and very very few scientific businesses and establishment uses Macs. For scientific and speci
34 Post contains images Klaus : Does it? There are markets for guns, drugs and tobacco, too. That does not mean that any of those are actually beneficial to their users. Most people
35 777236ER : So now you're going down an anti-capitalist route? Face it, the Mac market share is very very small, which is a large reason why many businesses simp
36 AC773 : The main reason for this is not that it won't work for them, but rather a matter of logistics. Most companies "computerized" their operations many ye
37 777236ER : Ignore the cost for a minute, it's just not viable to replace a PC for a Mac for many companies. The software, market penetration and compatability j
38 APFPilot1985 : Look above the ones i pointed out to you... see any wintel pc's? They all run on Sun Microsystems or IBM custom made machines. The apple ones though
39 Post contains images Klaus : Quoting myself: You have not presented halfway plausible statistics. You have not actually visited ALL engineering businesses as you would have had t
40 777236ER : More emotive nonsense from someone who may be better suited being a salesman for Apple. The important point you raised was Now, the highly insulting a
41 GusNYC : So what? Rolls Royce, Porshe or Mercedes aren't as popular as an Impala. The market it doesn't reflect the excellence of a product. Yes, that is true
42 777236ER : But Rolls Royce, Porsche and Mercedes try to be market leader in their particular market. While Mac may have a large share of a niche market, Klaus i
43 Klaus : To your post #40: You've based absolute and all-ecompassing claims on a single, sloppy and unprofessionally executed test by your own description. You
44 GusNYC : Computers are products, not a brand either.
45 Post contains images 777236ER : Yet but Apple is a brand! As for Klaus, I asked you one simple thing: You haven't answered, yet you haven't apologised.
46 Klaus : Quite simply: No. The entire argument is about your absolute claims based on insufficient evidence. Had you been just slightly less excessive with yo
47 AC773 : I agree, but it's nowhere near as bloated as it would be if we all used Linux/UNIX. These are far less reliable than the Windows OS, according to a s
48 Klaus : MacOS X does have its own issues every now and then, but they are rarely severe and are generally fixed relatively quickly. My guess why Linux and oth
49 Post contains images AirPacific747 : hmm.. I dont really like Mac.. 6 months ago, I decided to buy a Mac Mini, and was happy about it, but it freezed just as many times as my windows comp
50 Brendan03 : I managed to crash a Mac within 15 minutes of using it, On my fathers computer (P4 3.2GHz, 1GB ram, XP SP1) I managed to have FS2004 (LevelDsim763) g
51 Post contains links Klaus : Even though Microsoft Word is far from up to par to Mac standards (even though the Mac version is generally lauded as being superior to the Windows o
52 Bhill : Let's say...let's just say..that if Apple had 90% of the market they would not be having to write security patches evey week? It's rather simple..vand
53 Post contains images Klaus : They do that even now, although there are no exploits known for the (generally minor) vulnerabilities they're plugging. The problem with Windows is t
54 Post contains images ManuCH : I still own a Windows desktop PC, but also a Mac PowerBook G4 17". I have never (I say again, *never*) managed to crash the Mac, while it's quite easy
55 2H4 : Can one of you more seasoned Mac users explain to me how to capture a screenshot? 2H4
56 Post contains images AirPacific747 : The whole computer froze... couldnt even restart it in a normal way.. had to remove the plug. Are you saying that a 1,42 ghz, 512 mb ddr ram computer
57 Sovietjet : I hate Macs. Someone will hack them too. It's just not worth it since a lot fewer people have them. I really hate how so much software/programs/games
58 APFPilot1985 : What is "your stuff" I'll bet there are Mac software that does it.
59 AeroWesty : To capture the entire screen, you can simply press Command-Shift-3. To capture a region of the screen, press Command-Shift-4, then click and drag the
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