Cosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1384 times:
Charles Kennedy ( for those not in the UK he is the leader of the 3rd largest political party here) has finally admitted he has an alcohol problem and is to seek help.
This has sparked a leadership election in which Mr Kennedy will stand.
Has he done the right thing?
I think he has and his admission can only strenghten his image and help him re gain his stature.
WhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1370 times:
Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter): Charles Kennedy ( for those not in the UK he is the leader of the 3rd largest political party here) has finally admitted he has an alcohol problem and is to seek help.
I went to university with Kennedy (he's a few years older than me) and he was a terrible piss-artist then.
Twenty five years later, he's still hard at it. God alone knows what state his liver is in.
Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter): This has sparked a leadership election in which Mr Kennedy will stand.
he should stand aside and get his own life in order first.
Cosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1367 times:
Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 1): That depends on how many drinks he's had.
He has stated he has not had a drink in 2 months.
His decision to speak out shows a great deal of courage especially as a man so much in the public eye
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1348 times:
Right. So all those questions over all those years about his drinking were answered with complete lies then, were they?
Both Kennedy himself, AND the Lib Dems in general denied that he had a drink problem time after time after time. Now we hear that he's had this problem for some considerable time.
Good on him for coming out and admitting it. But it might have been better if they hadn't been lying about it for quite so long.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
NWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1389 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1337 times:
Speaking for myself, I'll put my trust in a flawed leader who admits his mistakes rather than these fake, "perfect" things we have here in the States
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1330 times:
Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 7): But doesn't everyone in his situation?
Sure. But we're talking about a person who runs for political office. Isn't trust the very central issue? "Over the last 18 months" he said. He's been asked the question in that time - and denied it.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12708 posts, RR: 80 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1315 times:
Problem is, he sort help 18 months ago, (after much heavy criticism about not turning up for a budget debate, his sweating, uncertain performance at a Lib Dem spring conference weeks later).
So he's been telling porkies for all this time.
Only admitting it now after being confronted by evidence he has this problem.
Understandable perhaps, from a purely personal perspective.
But a bit unacceptable to try and lead, including during a general election, while battling his illness.
Though he often cites gaining seats last year, the Lib Dems had a great opportunity in the election, Iraq had made Labour very unpopular with a lot of people, who'd never vote Tory.
The Tories were not much better off, hence their rather desperate election campaign, with it's often, in the greater scheme of things, petty obsessions.
So the Lib Dems did not do as well as expected, the 'decapitation' effort (forewarned to their opponents), against senior Tories in marginal seats, failed.
Remember his highly embarrassing, mumbling, clueless performance when asked about his policies? At the time he said it was tiredness at having a newborn first child, everyone now will think he had in fact been 'wetting the baby's head' too much.
Since the election there has been no leadership from him, now the Cameron threat of (belatedly) re-positioning the Tories radically, has made many Lib Dem MP's fear for their seats.
Nothing personal against Kennedy, I wish him well, he seems a nice bloke, but he has always been unsuited as a major party leader.
He was perhaps chosen as an antidote to the energetic Paddy Ashdown, at heart the Lib Dems are a sleepy lot, so 'chatshow Charlie' seemed a good choice.
Unencumbered as they are by ever being in government since the WW1 period.
They are also a very opportunistic bunch, if your house looks prosperous, the line from a Lib Dem canvasser will tow a moderate line, very centre ground.
On a housing estate, they'll out Labour Old Labour.
An election anecdote from last year had a Lib Dem canvasser talking to a voter, then the voter produced a recent Lib Dem document that contradicted everying the Canvasser had just said, he's misjudged the sort of home/likely voter political affiliation.
The Lib Dem swore and trooped off.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1296 times:
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 8): Speaking for myself, I'll put my trust in a flawed leader who admits his mistakes rather than these fake, "perfect" things we have here in the States
Yeah... the dude, like all alcoholics, is weak-- but at least he can admit it.
Never a cause for blame with our current administration, it's disgusting.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1294 times:
Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 10): at least he has shown himself to be human and not a cliche as the other 2 leaders
You have to be slightly careful about that. When David Cameron started talking about the NHS yesterday (the first time he's really gone into battle over a policy matter), a lot of people dismissed it as just another Tory lying through his teeth. But Cameron has a seriously ill son, and has spent a damn sight more time in hospitals than most of us.
Quoting GDB (Reply 11): Understandable perhaps, from a purely personal perspective.
But a bit unacceptable to try and lead, including during a general election, while battling his illness.
Exactly so. On a personal level, entirely understandable. But look at it this way, had there been a shock result (however unlikely it was) you could now have had a Prime Minister, or a Cabinet minister if there'd been a hung Parliament, coming out and admitting a drink problem having denied it all this time. That's the problem.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 60 Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1291 times:
Can't see the problem really. The guy has held the job down with no real after effects. Lying about it? Well, I would like to bet that no-one on here would say a word until they had to, if they were in a similar position.
As for undermining his integrity, thats a crock of crap. ALL politicians lie, it's in the blood (along with the alcohol and other suspicious substances) and for anyone to expect a politician of ANY party to openly come out and admit something like that until he had to, or the press (scum) forced his hand, is delusioned.
As NWOrientDC10 said, I would rather trust a politician that admitted he'd lied than one that insisted he was squeaky clean whatever happened.
Not that I like politicians much. Especially those across the water in the UK. Now, in the IOM, we KNOW our politicians are stupid
Human beings are fallible. We just expect politicians to be perfect - which is NEVER going to happen!
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12333 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1282 times:
The current President Bush admitted to having a serious problem with alcohol a number of years ago after a bad experience and hasn't drank since then. Maybe he killed off a few critical brain cells that he needs now.
There have been a number of politicans whom had alcohol problems, but were still highly respected and sound leaders. Still, if the problems become public (as apparently with Mr. C. Kennedy's case), and you lie out of a natural human trait of denial for a long time, it does hurt your trust. Maybe in this man's case his doctor gave him a warning of how much his drinking was hurting his health, hurting others and will limit his ability to go for the position he wants. Let's hope he sticks with it.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12708 posts, RR: 80 Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1267 times:
C'mon Skidmarks, these suspicions about Kennedy did not appear from nowhere.
How many hopeless, televised, attempts to fail to understand your own policies, absences from important Parliamentary debates (unlike a PM, he has not got matters of state, often abroad, to attend to), hopeless performances in front of his own party at a conference, do you need?
General lengthy lacklustre spells too?
It's British politics worst kept secret, which he lied about many, many times, while presuming to be able to lead a party at a critical time for them.
It is sad, but (even by Lib Dem standards), he was promoted way beyond his ability.
Maybe that helped cause, or add to, his very real illness.
He's a nice guy I'm sure, but while I don't see myself as paranoid, loathe what the likes of the Daily Mail stand for, but if by some chance, Kennedy had become PM, I'd fear for this country.
He just has not got what it takes, I'm sure he is a good MP for his constituents when he is well, but that was always his limit.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 18): It's British politics worst kept secret, which he lied about many, many times, while presuming to be able to lead a party at a critical time for them.
Even more than that, he forced a number of journalists into very public retractions when they alleged he had a drinking problem. Jeremy Paxman for one was hauled over the coals for daring to suggest it might be an issue.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1194 times:
He's finished.
Even a number of those who have previously backed him are coming out now and going through the damning with faint praise motions.
Of course, if the Tories manage to maintain their recent resurgence, the Lib Dems are going to get horribly squeezed again, and if that does happen, a number of Lib Dems might look back in a few years and wonder how they managed to get rid of their most successful leader since Lloyd George.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
25 MKEdude: [quote=GDB,reply=11]So the Lib Dems did not do as well as expected, the 'decapitation' effort (forewarned to their opponents), against senior Tories i
26 Banco: I'm not too sure it did, really. It's what the Lib Dems themseves said they were going for, but given the way the electoral system works, I always th
27 GSM763: As said above the electoral system doesn't help. If I remember correctly according to an article in the independent (a left leaning newspaper) if we h
28 ConcordeBoy: Yes. ....but, that does not however mean you shouldn't be lauded for (eventually) having the courage/strength/etc to retake your life from the situat
29 MEA-707: Margaret Thatcher has been known to drink heavily during office, think of one or two bottles of whisky a night as well, which might be the reason she
30 GDB: Thatcher liked a whisky late at night, after a long day. She was a hard working, driven person, no matter what you thought of her. Kennedy supporters
32 GDB: I could not stand Maggie, but where is the proof (no pun intended). I don't call a Whiskey after work being alcoholic. The idea that a serving PM, wit
33 Banco: True enough, but it isn't quite as dramatic as that, and it's what the Lib Dems themselves say, but what they never mention is that people vote accor
38 Andz: Why is Menzies Campbell referred to as "Ming"?
39 GDB: Apparently it's short for 'Menzies'. Though his failure to support Kennedy (after Charlie lied once too often about his condition and competence), had
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