Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Which Do You Think Is More Important: Liberty...  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

..or justice?

America's pledge of allegiance promises "liberty and justice" for all. But what if the two were in conflict?

The vast majority of pronouncements on U.S. policy focus on such things as "democracy" and "freedom" or "liberty". "Justice" is less popular as part of catchphrase, unless it's "we will bring the evil-doers to justice", or similar.

However, on the left, there is a preoccupation with "social justice", meaning that they want to take stuff from the rich and give it to the poor (cf.: Robin Hood). Economic redistribution through taxes, in other words.

But justice doesn't just entail "social justice".

So, which one is more important overall? Liberty or justice?

Thanks in advance.

4 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

You cannot have one without the other...

Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

If only it were that easy to put into words....

Besides, you left one key word out of the equation: responsibility. It's very tempting and easy to say that an "injustice" exists when you see some 40 year old on minimum wage. It's hard to not want to help that person...until you realize that this is the person who slept and ditched through high school, never went to college, and preferred to spend his weekends getting drunk and high.

So who's fault is it that there is no justice here? Is it fair or right to steal from the person who is well off-simply because "he can afford it", or because "we need to help the less fortunate, no matter what the price"?

This is a very sore subject with me. I don't care if you do have the wealth of Bill Gates or Donald Trump. I realize that those men could give up a million or fifty in cash with no noticeable effect on their lifestyle. But that's not the point. The point is that they earned their fortunes fair and square and through hard work, risk taking, and so on. They don't owe anybody anything. PERIOD.

Or what about the mother of the kid you see bursting into tears because her 19 year old son was just sentenced to Death for murdering an 18 year old girl? Seeing that old woman crying hysterically as her son is hauled off by the bailiff is indeed heartbreaking. But what about the equally distraught parents of the deceased girl? Where's their justice?

These are just two examples I can think of off the top of my head.

It's not easy to answer your question with "choice A" or "B".

They are all intertwined. And what might be construed as "justice" for one person could very easily be interpreted as being at the expense of someone else.

Personally, I feel that justice and and liberty are of equal importance: one cannot exist without the other. But with those come responsibility: your Liberty ends when it encroaches on my personal well being, my health, my property, or my finances. You breach any of those without my consent and you should be subject to justice.

User currently offlineArmitageShanks From Costa Rica, joined Dec 2003, 3925 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2424 times:

I think they both go hand in hand, but liberty should take the top.

User currently offlineHiFi From Brazil, joined Apr 2005, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

There is a fundamental difference between Justice and Liberty: liberty is natural, justice is man-made.

It is quite well accepted nowadays that every man has the right to be free. However, in a society, this basic right is assured by Justice. Your liberty extends until it interferes with someone else's... Those limits form morality. Morality translates into law, and law is the base for Justice. Morals are subjective, but law must be objective. Liberty is a concept, Justice is the real thing.

I will not go into a discussion of what is just and what is unjust. There is not a "world justice"... laws are still based on local culture and moral rules and no consensus has been reached. Tolerance is what should be the key to a global society. A Muslim has the right to pray his own god when living in the USA, but in no way may he place his beliefs above American laws and justice if they eventually conflict.

Globally, Justice is more important, as it is essential in a society where every man thinks his own way, and its purpose should be to sustain society (with moral values) and assure the liberty of each one of its members. Individually, you should worry about your liberty (your right to liberty and the limits to your liberty).

Ironically, after writing this, I realize that some of the most immoral persons I know of are lawyers... Big grin
Please, this is a joke, I do not mean any offense...


no commercial potential
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Do You Think Is Romantic? posted Sun Feb 12 2006 13:17:51 by CamAir
What Do You Think Is The Best Movie Soundtrack? posted Tue Nov 8 2005 07:18:08 by ArmitageShanks
What Do You Think Is The Best In Film? posted Wed Feb 4 2004 06:22:45 by VS340
What Do You Think Is The Coolest Looking Suv? posted Sun Jun 4 2000 17:27:46 by Blink182
What Age Do You Think It Is To Late To Have A Kid? posted Sun Oct 8 2006 03:49:18 by 747400sp
Do You Think Jacqueline Is Full Of Doo-doo? posted Sun Aug 20 2006 18:52:25 by PROSA
Do You Think That This Is Police Abuse? posted Fri May 19 2006 04:14:06 by AerospaceFan
Which Do You Hate More: Ironing Or Washing Up? posted Wed Jan 25 2006 21:57:41 by 9VSPO
Do You Think "God" Is Trying To Tell The Scouts... posted Fri Jul 29 2005 21:00:31 by TedTAce
Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think posted Wed Jun 29 2005 02:52:46 by TedTAce