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Hajj Stampede Kills Hundreds  
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17778 posts, RR: 46
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1827 times:

Shock and dismay, another year, another group of people killed in a stampede at Hajj activity. It's sad but what's even more sad is that this happens every bloody year and I can pretty much count on it happening the next year.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/12/hajj.stampede/index.html


E pur si muove -Galileo
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1816 times:

What, did someone bring a soccer ball to the Hajj?


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1816 times:

Maybe they should have an annual Hajj marathon so the pilgrims can get the running thing out of their system in a controlled manner.

Mark


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6839 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1800 times:

Sadly it's what happens when you put millions of people in the same place who have to do something in a short time period. Additionally, many of the people will be making their first and only visit to Mecca and possibly their only trip outside their country, if not village, and may not speak the language of other visitors. It's a recipe for disaster.

The hajj has been reported a bit on the radio over here. There are many complaints about lack of places to stay with poorer people sleeping rough on the streets or in parks. It's all well and good expecting someone to visit Mecca at least once in a lifetime, but if there are too many people.....



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1796 times:

Looks as if, in spite of some facilities improved, some bottlenecks still are around, which hopefully will get solved as well.

User currently offlineFOMEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1776 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
Shock and dismay, another year, another group of people killed in a stampede at Hajj activity.

Sad indeed..
The number of people allowed to make hadj sould be reduced, and those who already went there should not be allowed a second time and rami al jamarat should be stritly organized by small groups even if each group of people should have a specific time fixed in advance to do this activity.
And this year my mother is over there.
I got tell you..i have never in my life been so worried.
I finally just got off the phone with her..after 4 Hours of trying to reach her and 4 hours of awful feeling.
I am just in relief now .

Yet, my thought are with all the families and victims.


Regards
F-OMEA.



On the internet you can be anything you want..its strange so many choose to be Stupid.
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting FOMEA (Reply 5):
Sad indeed..
The number of people allowed to make hadj sould be reduced, and those who already went there should not be allowed a second time and rami al jamarat should be stritly organized by small groups even if each group of people should have a specific time fixed in advance to do this activity.
And this year my mother is over there.
I got tell you..i have never in my life been so worried.
I finally just got off the phone with her..after 4 Hours of trying to reach her and 4 hours of awful feeling.
I am just in relief now .

Yet, my thought are with all the families and victims.

Agree with there FOMEA, the Saudi authorities are building a new 4 storey bridge to facility the people and decrease the amount of incidents taking place each year. Finally Mubrook on your mother becoming a Hajji, she is now one of the lucky few.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1732 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 1):
What, did someone bring a soccer ball to the Hajj?

thanks for your stupid, asinine comment... butthead 

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
outside their country, if not village, and may not speak the language of other visitors. It's a recipe for disaster.

The hajj has been reported a bit on the radio over here. There are many complaints about lack of places to stay with poorer people sleeping rough on the streets or in parks. It's all well and good expecting someone to visit Mecca at least once in a lifetime, but if there are too many people.....

they have been makign improvements over the past years....lots of work is still needed though....but everytime a tragedy like this happens, the government at least takest the time/money/resources to fix that particular problem....

Quoting FOMEA (Reply 5):
I got tell you..i have never in my life been so worried.
I finally just got off the phone with her..after 4 Hours of trying to reach her and 4 hours of awful feeling.
I am just in relief now .

FOMEA...when my parents went, if you can recall the fire disaster in 1997 which killed many, my mom was THE LAST person to get out of the burning tent as it collapsed.....in fact..she almost got burned herself......it was a bit scary, as I wasn't able to get a hold of them for quite some time...so I know how you feel!

Mubarak on u're mom's hajj... Smile  Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFOMEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
they have been makign improvements over the past years....lots of work is still needed though....but everytime a tragedy like this happens, the government at least takest the time/money/resources to fix that particular problem....

True

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
when my parents went, if you can recall the fire disaster in 1997 which killed many, my mom was THE LAST person to get out of the burning tent as it collapsed.....in fact..she almost got burned herself......it was a bit scary, as I wasn't able to get a hold of them for quite some time...

I can only imagine what it felt like....
Trust me.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
Mubarak on u're mom's hajj...



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 6):
Finally Mubrook on your mother becoming a Hajji, she is now one of the lucky few.

Thank you Gentlemen ..she will be home Monday.

Regards
F-OMEA.



On the internet you can be anything you want..its strange so many choose to be Stupid.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

Quoting FOMEA (Reply 5):
number of people allowed to make hadj sould be reduced

they already HAVE reduced the total number. BUT they should divide the place into SECTORS, and only allow an acceptable number into each sector. Would admittedly involve quite some planning, construction and personnel, but would bring the matter under control. The various sectors of course have to be sealed off quite seriously from each other.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1692 times:

Quoting FOMEA (Reply 5):
all the families and victims.

exactly ! not least to think of families who still do NOT know whether their relative is well or dead or injured --- perfect horror


User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
Quoting LHMARK (Reply 1):
What, did someone bring a soccer ball to the Hajj?

thanks for your stupid, asinine comment... butthead

I thought it was funny. And very appropriate. That stuff doesn't need to happen, but all of these people act like heards of buffalo running from a lion. I'm almost certain that that's not what the hajj is supposed to represent. It happens every year,and you can't just blame it on the accomidations. You have to blame it on people acting less civil than cavemen. I have a muslim friend who attended hajj, and they call it a stampede. Said a surefire way to get killed is to drop something and try to pick it up, or try to help someone being stampeded.

Too many people going, they should probably have multiple hajj times throughout the period to get things done safely.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1659 times:

From a news article I read on these far too often tragedies, it was triggered by luggage falling off of a bus, causing a large moving group of people to cause a domino affect of people tripping and falling. It occured at a major choke point to the site of the sacred rock. Part of the problem with the Hajj custom and causing these large numbers of mass deaths, is that some of the most orthodox branchs of Islam believe that one is only supposed to do the ritual of the walk and throwing of pebbles at the rock at or around early evening or afternoon prayer times. As so many people want to conform to that interpatation of the ritual, it often causes huge crushes of people. Some moderate Islamics have chosen to do their ritual in the morning or other 'off peak' times, and not join the crush at the preferred time of the ritual.
I am quite sure that this must be a tremendous challange to the Saudi Arabian Government, their people, military and police to keep order for the good of all there. Let us all hope that there are no more people found dead or that situations like this never happen again.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17778 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 12):
no more people found dead or that situations like this never happen again.

I can all but guarantee you it will happen again next year.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1097 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

I was reading that is an honor to get killed there. And you straight to heaven.


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 14):
I was reading that is an honor to get killed there. And you straight to heaven.

I was curious about this; I was wondering whether it might be a reason that there are not more actions taken to prevent this sort of thing. Can any muslims comment, please? Having said that, i do not personally know what more can be done.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Someone really ought to ban the Mecca Walmart from having an Xbox sale during the Hajj.

User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2462 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Someone drop a fiver?


http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
Someone really ought to ban the Mecca Walmart from having an Xbox sale during the Hajj.

 rotfl 


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

Very Sad !! RIP for all the dead.

User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1531 times:

What if terrorists get in there? What if a suicide bomber attacks or an airliner is crashed into the site or there's a dirty bomb is set off?  eyebrow 

User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

Quoting Airsnaps (Reply 18):
I've also heard that you can go straight to heaven if you fly aircraft into certain tall buildings and massacre innocent people. This is said to form part of "Five Pillars of Islam" and is the god willing duty of all Muslims.

It's good to see them killing their own for a change.

Typical Islamophobia, a pathetic case indeed.

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 21):
What if terrorists get in there? What if a suicide bomber attacks or an airliner is crashed into the site or there's a dirty bomb is set off?

The day Pat Robertson calls for the assassination of G.W.Bush I shall think about your above quotes. Most probably it will never happen.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

I'm sorry but some of these comments are very inappropriate.
It is sad to see hundreds of people killed. Even worse to see people joking about it.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1489 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
thanks for your stupid, asinine comment...

I thought it was pretty funny, myself.  Big grin

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
Someone really ought to ban the Mecca Walmart from having an Xbox sale during the Hajj.

 Big grin

Quoting Solarix (Reply 23):
It is sad to see hundreds of people killed. Even worse to see people joking about it.

You're right.....it IS sad to see so many people die at once. Whats even worse is the fact that it could have been prevented in about a dozen different areas.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

Quoting Solarix (Reply 23):
I'm sorry but some of these comments are very inappropriate.
It is sad to see hundreds of people killed.

Yeah, I remember how the news was received in the Arab world about the 9/11 attacks and I'm sure all those that were dancing in the streets were thinking the same thing about the WTC and Pentagon victims.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pointing at this as revenge, I'm merely illustrating that some may not see it as you do and what is "inappropriate" and "sad" to you may be somewhat less so to someone else.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
Shock and dismay

Shock? Dismay? Is that what you feel? Check your terms closely. This is to be expected when this many people engage in this activity. Overcrowded soccer (football) games end up the same way and you should know to expect these things to happen so that you will not be "shocked".

I know, I'm really being a meanie tonight, but I am sick of seeing the terms that the media has been throwing out there being picked up and used by real people. Society today has no idea what "shocking" is. The tsunami last year could be termed "shocking", but numbers like 350 or so getting killed is about what you would expect for the number of people killed in a typical holiday weekend due to drunk drivers. Tell me why nobody seems to be "shocked" about that.

http://www.madd.org/stats/10419

(Edited to add link to source)

[Edited 2006-01-13 04:01:36]

25 AeroWesty : Anyone's accidental death is unfortunate. Taken as a whole, I don't believe the comments here represent "Islamophobia" as much as they express frustra
26 PIA777 : Exactly. Some people on this thread are real jerks!!! PIA777
27 PIA777 : You know nothing about Islam. PIA777
28 PIA777 : So, when those people who were dancing and celebrating die, then you can laugh. WHat about the people in Iran holding candle light vigiles after 9/11
29 Mandala499 : Comments about the football, the fiver, and the Xbox sale I can laugh about... Because, yes, some do act like so... despite what everyone else and the
30 ME AVN FAN : No, "it" does NOT happen every year. "Something" happens almost every year. It is different things. Nonsense ! you should consider to change your pap
31 AA777 : A friend of mine who is muslim (practicing) told me that its 'good to die at Hajj' because thats when your sins are forgiven etc.... so if you die at
32 ME AVN FAN : No, and lets NOT got to shoot the messenger. Pilgrims who die while trying to do the pilgrimage of course are blessed people -..... BUT to deduct fro
33 Rlwynn : I saw on German tv that there is indeed a fairly large number of people who do go there every year for the purpose of dying. And that every year there
34 ME AVN FAN : I would regard THIS as complete nonsense. Out of the total of pilgrims, the deaths are BELOW one per-thousand and numerically absolutely irrelevant.
35 QR332 : Were you in the Middle East post-9/11? If not, don't even try to throw these accusations. The American media pulled a video out of its ass with peopl
36 StuckinMAF : Well, OK then, by your own logic, everybody is heartless. Tell ya what, bubba. I have no feeling of shock for this. If you do, that's your own busine
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : someone's mother/father/child/grandparent died there... it wouldn't be as funny if it happened to one of your friends, relatives or loved ones.... i
38 StuckinMAF : It is of no concern whatsoever whether I have been there or not. Here's why: Fact: Large numbers of people go there every year. Fact: A stampede ofte
39 Jacobin777 : because the amount of people who die is statistically extremely small (thought each individual life precious)... however, given the geograpy/layout/w
40 Rlwynn : Lets say the death rate is only 0.5 person per 1000. With the reported 3million people there that would still be 1500 people. The report said an aver
41 Usnseallt82 : Get over yourself, buddy. No one is making fun of the fact that people died. Its a tragic event any way you look at it, especially when it could have
42 Jacobin777 : i'm sure some people found humour in the absurd way which people in 9/11 died also... if the above statement is true, then.... a). do you think its o
43 StuckinMAF : You picked the wrong example if you were expecting an argument out of me. How it grabs me is that I am not "shocked" by anything you mentioned, and t
44 Jacobin777 : there was nothing supposed to be so-called "shocking" in my posts..
45 PIA777 : I know someone who lost their mother-in-law. PIA777
46 Jacobin777 : Inshallah they'll be at a better place...
47 Post contains images Mandala499 : Conclusion: The organizers of the "event" are negligent in their planning and should be held accountable! Here's where I don't agree... Channelling 2-
48 ME AVN FAN : "how the news was received in the Arab World" ? "dancing in the streets" ? Few if any did celebrate in any way. Western, and particularily US-TV-comp
49 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Why don't you stick to discussing something you have half a clue about. The people in the World Trade Centers were there because they worked there. T
50 ME AVN FAN : No, improvements were made in the past and more will become implemented. It in the end will be as secure as anything.
51 Usnseallt82 : So? It didn't do anything this year. I'm not trying to say that efforts won't be made to correct this, but when you have several million people from
52 Post contains images Jacobin777 : gee....my family only went to Hajj four times....and oh yah, my company was going to rent space in 1-world trade centre building 3 months before 9/11
53 GDB : Oh well, when something bad happens to a bunch of Americans, we'll crack a few jokes and note who is oh so outraged, checking against some of the resp
54 Post contains images Clipperhawaii : Way to fall in the "stereotype" hole. Would you then be "touchy" about that? BTW it's "their" not "thier". Just trying to be touchy mind you and live
55 Post contains images Jacobin777 : whether you agree to it or not......GDB is correct....
56 Clipperhawaii : I don't like these "jokes" either but to label them as "strictly" an American thing is what this clown is doing. Typical of him. Or is it just high h
57 QR332 : Well, pal, the truth hurts. If it was 360 Americans you guys would have gotten your panties into a twist by now if someone started cracking jokes. Al
58 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Yes..........you must be so proud of yourself. So very intelligent. You're connecting the deaths of people who were attacked to the deaths of those d
59 Clipperhawaii : Hold on pal. I don't like these jokes either. I believe I said that. What is this "you guys"? "Almost all"? Well why don't you ask for the deletion o
60 ME AVN FAN : well, they improved many things like the roads, the infrastructure, buildings, etc. There in the past was nothing in the place the disaster happened
61 QR332 : You really think it "hurt my feelings" to see people talking this trash on A.net? If that were the case, I would be dying of pain by now. Listen, sma
62 Post contains images Jacobin777 : exactly QR332, this is the typical hyprocricy seen all the time here on A.net... c'mon..you seriously must have a better come back than that.... that
63 MaverickM11 : There is nothing in common between an annual event that has rarely ever changed yet seems to go awry like clockwork involving totally sober participa
64 ME AVN FAN : it is NOT "awry like clockwork". The problem differs again and again, even if it overall is organisational faults. To repeat, I in case of such a gig
65 Msllsmith : I just hate to see anything like this happen. Cultural differences aside. I have a number of Muslim friends. The closest at the moment are my next doo
66 ME AVN FAN : as increasingly few people can stay away for very long, there are tour operators specializing in hadj-pilgrimage-tours. Beside the point that the Sau
67 Post contains images Emirates773ER : You have said this a number of times QR332 and sadly I totally agree with you.
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