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Expose 'radical' Ucla Teacher, Get $100  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- An alumni group dedicated to "exposing the most radical professors" at the University of California at Los Angeles is offering to pay students $100 to record classroom lectures of suspect faculty.

The Web site of the Bruin Alumni Association also includes a "Dirty Thirty" list of professors considered by the group to be the most extreme left-wing members of the UCLA faculty, as well as profiles on their political activities and writings


http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/01/19/ucla.radicals.reut/index.html


This is truely sick. What the F*&CK are these right wing looney birds so afraid of?

84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
This is truely sick. What the F*&CK are these right wing looney birds so afraid of?

What is the left so afraid of? If I was a liberal member of the UCLA faculty, I WANT to be a member of the "dirty thirty" because I'd be passionate in defending my beliefs.

While I agree that to the extent that this alumni group urges students to violate university rules and regulations, they should cease this practice, the efforts by the chancellor to fight the alumni group seem to be just bit over the top. I see nothing wrong with discussions aimed at the promotion of respectful political discourse on any college campus, and I see nothing wrong with exposing "academics" who proselytize students - instead of educating them - from either side of the ideological spectrum, conservative or liberal.

Maybe the reason UCLA professors are upset and are angry at the publicity is because they aren't teaching, they are indoctrinating.....

[Edited 2006-01-20 04:17:11]

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 1):
Maybe the reason they don't want to have the publicity is because they aren't teaching, they are indoctrinating.....

BS. The right hates the educated population. If you don't believe it, just listen to Rush.

They are teaching, teaching people to think, not just obey.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

Is attempting to collect information on the people educating our youth sick?

Website in question: http://www.uclaprofs.com/profs/profsindex.html

If these profiles are true, quite a few of them are in need of ethics reviews


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
BS. The right hates the educated population. If you don't believe it, just listen to Rush.

Since I work for a living, I don't have time - or inclination - to listen to Rush.  biggrin 


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1383 times:
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Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
BS. The right hates the educated population.

C'mon Clipper, please don't tell me that you buy into that. You're a smart guy, but I think your anger is getting the best of you. On most college campus', the left-wing propaganda machine is in complete control of most college and universities. Just visit them, and not just the Ivy League ones.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
They are teaching, teaching people to think, not just obey.

They're left wing agenda is ahrdly the reason behind that. Those who think for themselves, and not like robots on the campus of UCLA, are most likely conservatives.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 1):
Maybe the reason UCLA professors are upset and are angry at the publicity is because they aren't teaching, they are indoctrinating.....

That's thy way I see it. Using lectures to coerce the opinion of the academia in today's collegiate enviroment is what they're doing.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
What the F*&CK are these right wing looney birds so afraid of?

The same could be said for corndogs on the left



Made from jets!
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10037 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
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Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
That's thy way I see it. Using lectures to coerce the opinion of the academia in today's collegiate enviroment is what they're doing.

As someone who goes to school at USC (which I would assume is more conservative than UCLA, though I don't know for sure), I just don't see this. My professors generally don't even get into politics at all. And if they do, they have not preached a certain view. The vast majority of them have presented multiple viewpoints and encouraged debate.

The only professors who have somewhat skewed viewpoints are the ones who work in industry and teach on the side. But then again, their viewpoint is particularly useful (whether I agree with it or not), because I'll probably be in their shoes before too long.

Yeah, I suppose the liberals on college campuses tend to be more vocal. But who the hell cares? I'm 23, and I don't think I've had enough real-life (non-college) experience to really know my exact political stance. Personally, I wouldn't even listen to myself at this stage.

~Vik



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1366 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 4):
Rush

You have piss poor taste in music if you hate rush.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9375 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Those who think for themselves, and not like robots on the campus of UCLA, are most likely conservatives.

This was worth a good laugh.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
You have piss poor taste in music if you hate rush.

Yes!

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
That's thy way I see it. Using lectures to coerce the opinion of the academia in today's collegiate enviroment is what they're doing.

Lectures are to provoke thought and reaction, not absolution in thought. That's why you have so many assignments and papers where you are to either...

1. Argue for

or
2. Argue against



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1357 times:

These jackasses are modern-day Joe McCarthy's, nothing more. They don't want balance in education; they simply want conservatives in every position.
They want their own indoctrination to be the rule of the day, that's all.


User currently offlineRedcordes From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1348 times:

The lectern is a bully-pulpit. A professor has a natural authority and thus can influence his open-minded charges. I had a great professor who happened to be a red feminist -- boy was she fun to tease-- and I called her out one day for repeatedly showering us, while lecturing, with her irrelevant political and feministic opinions. She herself agreed that it really wasn't appropriate. Funny thing was, that not only was she really a feminist, she was really hot too. And, as she would go off on her feministic/socialistic ramblings, all of us guys in the class would daydream about going off with her. I don't think she ever really swayed us, even though she certainly did move us. Professors should not preach their own political beliefs, unless it is relevant and adds to a discussion. It's a little subversive in a way, because I would bet most the students attending the top schools are coming from republican households--they are biting the hand that feeds them! And the hand, apparently, is not happy. So, maybe they better stop talking to those faces.


"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1347 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
These jackasses are modern-day Joe McCarthy's, nothing more. They don't want balance in education; they simply want conservatives in every position.
They want their own indoctrination to be the rule of the day, that's all.

That's not true and you know it, Falcon.
All most conservatives want is balance. In my day, those liberal professors tried to introduce pro-liberal political talking points in Calculus, Physics, and Organic Chemistry. What the hell does Organic Chemistry have to do with the Democratic party?

Academia is usually one of the most stifling areas of thought and marching lockstep with far left elements of society.

Cornel West, Ward Churchill, et. al are not the exception, ok?

I feel that colleges need to be de-politicized and not be instruments of either the liberals or conservatives. They need to be places where students study, discover themselves, and socialize, all without any political indoctrination of any kind whatsoever.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 11):
All most conservatives want is balance. In

Bullshit. That's not they want. They want the control themselves. Isn't the way they cut off debate in the House of Reps and not allow minority participation enough for you to see that?

They're not interested in balance; they're interested in right-wing indoctrination.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9375 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
They don't want balance in education; they simply want conservatives in every position.

agreed.

free thinkers, particuarly left free thinkers, are such terrorists against the right wing agenda.

and remember, "We're either with them or against them."



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

Is your hatred of the right so pervasive you are not willing or able to see the left wing politburo mentality of most college campuses, Falcon?

Ever visited Berkeley, Austin, Ann Arbor, or almost any state college?
Ever visited the Ivy leagues or other private campuses?

The left completely dominates the campuses with no opportunity for dissent.
There has been so many stories on TV and print about students who are blackballed, harassed and even given lower scores simply because they presented conservative views.

I have said above on my previous statements about how politics need to be taken out of public institutions such as colleges and let students come up with their own ideas. I guess that's not good enough for you, Falcon. To deny that the left wing herd mentality does not exist is simply a fallacy. To imply that conservatives want to take over the colleges is simply hilarious.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9375 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 14):
To imply that conservatives want to take over the colleges is simply hilarious.

No, it'd be a dream come true for them.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 14):
There has been so many stories on TV and print about students who are blackballed, harassed and even given lower scores simply because they presented conservative views.

Were these papers or stations owned by Sinclair?



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 14):
Is your hatred of the right so pervasive you are not willing or able to see the left wing politburo mentality of most college campuses, Falcon?

If you're going to throw around words like "politburo" in your arguement, you can just stop arguing right there. Is your hatred of the right so pervasive that you look upon those who are liberal as communists? Give me a freaking break.

Truth is, many on the right want control of the intellectual direction of this country, which, basically means tossing science out the window, and getting rid of anything that is remotely liberal in academic life. Basically, it means taking education back to the dark ages.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 14):
I have said above on my previous statements about how politics need to be taken out of public institutions such as colleges and let students come up with their own ideas

Fine, then you should be on the front line, telling these right-wing alumin groups to fuck off, and leave it to the students. And guess what? I went to a college that is fairly liberal, and guess what? I didn't see any ranting and raving against the right; Ronald Reagan visited the school, and I saw him speak; there were no "blackball" lists against students. Sorry, but I think a lot of that is in your own conservative mind, to be honest.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 15):
Quoting Texdravid (Reply 14):
There has been so many stories on TV and print about students who are blackballed, harassed and even given lower scores simply because they presented conservative views.

Were these papers or stations owned by Sinclair?

A good indication of what happens when the right takes over something. In the place of debate, you get censorship.


User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Fine, then you should be on the front line, telling these right-wing alumin groups to fuck off, and leave it to the students

Yeah, the big problem is those rowdy, right wing alumni.

Don't you wish you could spell alumni as well as you spell your profanities?

Man, Falcon, you must be losing it. To completely deny that colleges and their professors have a left wing bias is incredible.

To state that the only thing to do on campus is to get rid of so called "right wing alumni" is hardly a solution. To state that conservatives are the boogeymen on campus is delusional and a complete falsehood.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9375 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1308 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 17):
To completely deny that colleges and their professors have a left wing bias is incredible.

Wow, so now we're moving into a realm that colleges and their professors are automatically guilty of having a left wing bias and therefore are enemies of the state, just the same as our beloved terrorist cronies, and of course, those innocents who just happened to fit a "profile." I love what this administration and this way of thinking has done for our people. Just love it.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10037 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1307 times:
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This is the most ridiculous argument I might have ever read on here (and though I haven't responded to most, I've read many).

Maybe colleges are more liberal than conservative. So what? There's never going to be a 50/50 split in ANY institution EVER. If colleges are more liberal than conservative (it might be true, but I won't definitely support it), maybe there's a reason for that. I'd postulate that a great reason for it is that people from 18-22 or so just outgrew their teens, are getting their first taste of real freedom, want to experiment, and therefore are more likely to be liberal. Like I already said, how much do you know about the whole world when you're in the cocoon of college?

It'd be interesting to hear from more people who are in college today. I, myself, have not been influenced politically at all by my professors, other than being influenced to have an open mind. An open mind....think about that one.

~Vik



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Could the reverse work at Bob Jones U.?

I think this is another prime example of what happens when the USofA becomes a defacto one-party state. The right wing runs all branches of government, and now they are feeling their oats and attempting to consolidate their gains by snuffing out all opposition bit by bit.

If I was a prof at UCLA today I would instruct all my students to join this group, have them bring cameras and recording devices to class and then go off on the biggest rant against the Dear Leader. All this so that they could all collect the $100.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
If you're going to throw around words like "politburo" in your arguement, you can just stop arguing right there. Is your hatred of the right so pervasive that you look upon those who are liberal as communists? Give me a freaking break

Falcon, how are statements like yours any different? Statements like "These jackasses are modern-day Joe McCarthy's, nothing more" are mirror images of the statements you so loudly criticize.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 18):
Wow, so now we're moving into a realm that colleges and their professors are automatically guilty of having a left wing bias and therefore are enemies of the state, just the same as our beloved terrorist cronies, and of course, those innocents who just happened to fit a "profile." I love what this administration and this way of thinking has done for our people. Just love it.

Not at all. I wouldn't want a college campus to be all conservative any more than I'd want it to be all liberal. And the distribution doesn't bother me, either. What does bother me is that my tax dollars are being given to people who indoctrinate and proselytize their particular point of view, regardless of whether it is liberal or conservative. College should be a hotbed of education, not recruitment for the left or the right.

What's so wrong about asking college professors to simply teach their students HOW to think, instead of WHAT to think?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

Expose student who gets F and then blames teacher for "radical" views.

Feel really, really good about yourself !

Beats a lousy $ 100 any day.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9375 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
What's so wrong about asking college professors to simply teach their students HOW to think, instead of WHAT to think?

As a recent college graduate, I can attest with Vik that's how my experience was while I was there. I was a double major where one program had a strong lean to the right (almost every student there had a military connection, etc.,) but we all had tons of fun having our own intra-student discussions and debates about issues of this and that.



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User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1278 times:
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Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
This is truely sick. What the F*&CK are these right wing looney birds so afraid of?

Whoa.....dude, relax and think this through for a minute. There is an alumni group that wants to take issue with the substance of the material being taught by professors. That's what alumni do. They donate, they support, and they send their kids.....and they ought to take an interest in what the professors are teaching. There are plenty of examples of out of control college professors that demonstrate that the looneys are not necessarily all on the one side.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
BS. The right hates the educated population.

I take that as a personal insult, since I consider myself fairly well educated. You are insinuating that everyone on the right is uneducated and bigoted against those that are. Do you want to rephrase?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
They are teaching, teaching people to think, not just obey

You don't know what they are teaching unless you either went there or have made a case study of the issue (which it appears that this group is attempting to do, albeit with unorthodox methodology probably forced upon them by a group of tenured individuals not used to having any form of real oversight).

Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
Lectures are to provoke thought and reaction, not absolution in thought. That's why you have so many assignments and papers where you are to either...

1. Argue for

or
2. Argue against

Yeah, then how do you explain professors like my sophomore sociology prof who told me I could not write a paper on national health care because she did not think we'd agree? Seriously.

We aren't talking about all, or even most professors, but the most vocal and intolerant of the far left (or right if you can find one outside of Bob Jones U) who crush dissent by punishing students who voice differing views or ask uncomfortable questions. These are people who use their bully pulpit to sway the youth, and force them to accept as fact much which is opinion.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
These jackasses are modern-day Joe McCarthy's, nothing more. They don't want balance in education; they simply want conservatives in every position.

Stop it. Don't start making assumptions like that when you don't have all the facts. Do you really feel that there is balance in education today?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
They want their own indoctrination to be the rule of the day, that's all.

I don't think so, but if they are for indoctrination in one side of the matter only then I'm against them. I get the impression they are acting in response to what they see as one sided indoctrination and are as mad about that as you are about what you feel you understand on this situation.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
25 Jaysit : Sure enough. I've had my share of annoying lefty professors who remain trapped in Angela Davis' big ol' fro. However, many of these professors also t
26 Dtwclipper : Sorry, I don't agree. This is a witch hunt by right wing activists. No, I don't care to rephrase this. Listen to FOX, RUSH, et. al. They are whipping
27 Post contains images DL021 : well, since the posts to which I responded seemed to be purely reactionary and without much thought other than the one article I suggested balance an
28 Falcon84 : Exactly what I was thinking. These right-wing nuts sound like they're trying to "expose" enemies. That's how it comes off. And I don't buy it. Obviou
29 Post contains images Mdsh00 : I went to UCLA as an undergrad and I find the tactics of this group sick. This person is a former member of the Bruin Republicans, who are now taking
30 Halls120 : I see you didn't understand the point of my question. Don't you see how your criticism of others for raising the "politburo" card is no different fro
31 L-188 : Yeah it would-except that is a private school. A public one like UCLA has an oblication to be political neutral in its instruction. Private schools b
32 Falcon84 : They have no obligation whatsoever. They hire who they think can do the best job. Nothing says they have to hire as many conservatives as they do lib
33 IRelayer : This thread is hilarious because (and only because) some people refuse to admit that Universities and other places of higher learning are fortresses o
34 L-188 : It is amazing how many professors I have seen who where in there positions because they couldn't survive on the outside. One piece of advice I gave m
35 Garnetpalmetto : That's a rather narrow view of things. Let's take a field that's predominantly theoretical. How do you propose that a political theorist "survive on
36 Post contains links Dtwclipper : Well, I thought I would post the epilog to this story. Conservative Alumnus Pulls Offer to Buy Lecture Tapes - A 24-year-old conservative alumnus who
37 Tbar220 : Anti-intellectualism is a dangerous trend in this country, and the sad thing is that it is being labeled as a bias and "liberal" issue. Areas in the s
38 Halls120 : No one is suggesting that it should be the majority OR in balance with liberal thought. At least I'm not. I want an education that exposes me to both
39 Pope : It's the Senate not the House. But that just goes to show you which party wants an uneducated following. Precisely. Why do liberals fear that their o
40 Dtwclipper : They don't. Publishing your own work, with editorial control is one thing. Having a nut job alum, mangle your words and take things out of context (a
41 Pope : Then why don't they do it? Additionally, there is no evidence that any edits have occured. In fact, the website only allows full class unedited recor
42 Dtwclipper : I most certainly do not mind being called liberal.
43 Dtwclipper : And how would you know if it had been edited. The entire thing smacks of a witch hunt!
44 Falcon84 : Nor do I, if it's in the proper context, but Pope, you and I both know you don't use the word liberal to try and describe someone mainstream on the l
45 Dvk : You're wrong, pontiff. It is the House that can more easily shut out the minority from the legislative process. This has been discussed at some lengt
46 Pope : The House has never had a tradition of free debate. Therefore, when Falcon says: he's confusing the House with the Senate. The GOP hasn't been critiz
47 Dvk : Actually, the GOP has been criticized a good bit lately specifically for preventing debate in the house. Where have YOU been for the past two years?
48 Pope : Preventing debate in the House is part and parcel of the power of the majority party. When Tip O'Neil ruled with an iron hand and repeatedly kept any
49 Dtwclipper : Perfect example of your use of the term "liberal". Please in the future substitute Democrat or opposing party Hell yes, they did complain Again, poor
50 Dvk : Take a Xanax already. I corrected your misstatement that nobody had been criticizing the GOP for cutting off debate in the house, that's all. If you
51 Pope : Without a doubt. I bet that when that time happens, they'll do exactly what they're criticizing the GOP for doing now. I didn't say nobody - I named
52 Pope : Why do you guys run from that label so fast? I thought liberal was a good thing. Remember, the DNC was throwing the label of right-wing conservatives
53 Dvk : Read your own line above again, please. I know you didn't mention DeLay. I mentioned DeLay, because he has been at the heart of the effort to shut th
54 N1120A : Ok, I have a unique position on this subject because I actually went to school with Andrew Jones along with people on his "advisory board" (including
55 Pope : So wait, when you ask me if I want to debate Delay, you acknowledge that I didn't say anything about Delay. Where's the logic? But since we're on the
56 Dvk : Public support for W. has not grown significantly lately. His numbers haven't improved that much. As for demonizing, you're nearly fanatical in your
57 Pope : Cite what I'm fanatical in demonizing? Come on, specific posts. I've publicly stated that I'm against the GOP's spending habits. I'm against their in
58 Dvk : I don't have time to go back through your voluminous posts from the past, but the tone of your posts just in this thread is a good place to begin. I
59 Pope : And you prove my point. You can't cite a single example. Don't worry you're not alone. Every time Falcon84 has made that statement, I've offered him
60 Dvk : Wrong again. I cited your earlier posts in this very thread. This is just one example, and it supports MY point quite well. You speak in gross hyperb
61 Post contains images Halls120 : Don't forget Tony Coehlo (D), former representative from California, who left the House under a cloud of suspicion stemming from allegations of impro
62 Pope : Amen. All liberals want to talk about is their "rights" yet far too often they (a) don't understand what their rights really are or (b) want to addre
63 Post contains images Dvk : That's ok. I have a very good memory, so I don't have to do any research to know that much of what you post is absurd. And yes, my tone is equally di
64 N1120A : By the threat of action against them by people who are tied to certain elements of the government. I know several of the people on that list and know
65 Pope : Where is the tie to the government?
66 EWROwznj00 : Now, I lean left in my politics, but I had these one professor, he taught "US Culture of the 1960's." Damn, he was a left-over hippie, and he HATED Bu
67 Pope : I once had an English TA (in a first year class) give me a D on a comp paper and only attack the substance not the style or grammar of what I had wri
68 N1120A : Hmm, illegal wire tapping of innocent civilians to start. Also, financial support from the same groups who have the Bush Administration in their pock
69 EWROwznj00 : Then she was a bad teacher. She's not there to question you on your view points, she's there to correct you on your grammar. She was a B-I-T-C-H for
70 Pope : But the government isn't involved in this. There is no guilt by association. You're inventing a link that simply doesn't exist. A fourth amendment ri
71 EWROwznj00 : But wouldn't you then be acting as an agent for the police? And by breaking said laws and commiting said torts, wouldn't that evidence be tainted? I
72 Post contains images Halls120 : The "threat" of action by people who are "tied to certain elements of the government?" Tell me, do they fly around UCLA in black helicopters? And how
73 Pope : Only if the police asked me to do it. For example, if I broke in to steal your wallet and then found a dead body. My conscious get the better of me a
74 N1120A : Because I know the professors personally. Aparently more than you The subpoena power is granted by the Judicial Branch, part of the government. Also,
75 Halls120 : Oh, and that's your proof?!?!? When you meet with them, do you all wear tin foil beanies? Given that you have utterly failed to demonstrate how the a
76 N1120A : At least one of them discovered the wiretapping on his telephone. Comments like that give you no credibility. Reread my post, because you clearly don
77 Halls120 : And YOU have any credibility when you can't properly interpret one of the most basic tenets of the First Amendment? LOL, that's rich.... I read and u
78 N1120A : I NEVER said they did, and I never said that anything other than copyright issues would be illegal. So you have an issue with my wording? You can spi
79 Pope : Well there's actually Supreme Court case law to the opposite. I'm at my office now so I don't have my old textbook in front of me but the case involv
80 N1120A : First, they were entrusted with possession, second did the break the seal on purpose or were they examining an open box?
81 Pope : You're asking me details on something I haven't looked at in over 10 years. Let me dig out the books tonight and post further when I have specifics.
82 Post contains images Halls120 : You know, if I didn't have to do some real work, I think I'd just keep giving you more rope so that you could continue to hang yourself with it. Anyo
83 N1120A : Don't give me advice.
84 Pope : The case I was referring to is United States v. Jacobsen, 466 US 109, 104 S. Ct. 1652 (1984). FedEx employees opened a damaged box and found newspape
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