Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps  
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 1367 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060124/...u=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer
"MEXICO CITY - A Mexican government commission said Tuesday it will distribute at least 70,000 maps showing highways, rescue beacons and water tanks in the Arizona desert to curb the death toll among illegal border crossers.
The National Human Rights Commission, a government-funded agency with independent powers, denied the maps — similar to a comic-style guide booklet Mexico distributed last year — would encourage illegal immigration.
Officials said the maps would help guide those in trouble find rescue beacons and areas with cell phone reception. The maps will also show the distance a person can walk in the desert in a single day."

Boy this sort of thing gets me stirred up. I know and understand that Mexican and other foreign workers keep a good portion of this economy a float. But this is not something the Mexican govmt or any government should be sponsoring. Your thoughts and opinions please.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 1361 times:

As I've noted in previous posts, the Mexican economy sees over $14 billion in illegal remittances sent back every year. This is only second to oil in economic contributions to Mexico. They do not want the flow of illegal immigration to stop.

BTW, there are quite a few sources that show, even though there is a surplus amount sent to Social Security from illegals, the overall contribution to the federal government (inclusive of taxes paid and benefits taken) is very negative.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 1359 times:

In other border news:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/24/mexico.border.ap/index.html

hmm..

You know... a year ago I would have told you a fence was a silly idea...now...


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 1356 times:

Hmm lets see......

* = Your position.

North = Desert
East = Desert
South = Desert
West = Desert

Now You Say "Shit, I'm lost"  Wink



Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineMiCorazonAzul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Your thoughts and opinions please.

Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem, there must be a way of helping these people stay alive. It is obvious that the MILLIONS and MILLIONS spent on border control is NOT working so why not start looking into other alternatives? As in, giving MORE work visas to people that don't take a year to come through? Anyway, that's beside the point.

It is help for these poor people who often don't make it across the desert. They are HUMANS and for that reason have rights and shouldn't be treated like animals.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20500 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life?

Would you support airports distributing a "safe stowaway" manual to every traveler so anyone thinking of taking a ride in a wheel well will know how to arrive at their destination safely?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Would you support airports distributing a "safe stowaway" manual to every traveler so anyone thinking of taking a ride in a wheel well will know how to arrive at their destination safely?

 rotfl 

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life?

C'Mon CZ, that certainly is NOT the answer . . . . make it easier and more will come. Make it more difficult . . . they may still come, but not in record numbers, that's for sure.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 1311 times:

There are too many incentives in the USA that encourages the illegal immigration. Too many Americans didn't want to do grunt work so we let them do it - and for cheap. We need to go after the corporations and businesses that use mostly illegal workers with big fines and other penalties. Maybe if they had to pay some of the health care costs the local and state governments get stuck with from those illegal workers and their illegally here families, along with paying for their return bus fare, it would help.

User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem, there must be a way of helping these people stay alive. It is obvious that the MILLIONS and MILLIONS spent on border control is NOT working so why not start looking into other alternatives? As in, giving MORE work visas to people that don't take a year to come through? Anyway, that's beside the p



Exactly my feelings. They are humans and most treat them like dogs. Welcome to my respected users list!


User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
here are too many incentives in the USA that encourages the illegal immigration. Too many Americans didn't want to do grunt work so we let them do it - and for cheap. We need to go after the corporations and businesses that use mostly illegal workers with big fines and other penalties. Maybe if they had to pay some of the health care costs the local and state governments get stuck with from those illegal workers and their illegally here families, along with paying for their return bus fare, it would help.

Oh Yes all of those perks about coming here, like living in a tarp in the middle of the desert to hide from the police doing jobs with terrible wages and trying to support a family. Those sure sound like perks to me.


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 1276 times:

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
MILLIONS and MILLIONS spent on border control is NOT working so why not start looking into other alternatives?

The same could be said about the war on poverty we've been waging since the middle 60's.

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
It is help for these poor people who often don't make it across the desert. They are HUMANS and for that reason have rights and shouldn't be treated like animals.

Who often don't make it? That sounds like more die than make it which is certainly not the case. You think we treat them like animals? You should see how they are treated by the people they pay to transport them across the border.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

I don't think the maps count as "sponsoring" illegal immigration, but as "trying to save lives" which is a good thing by default. Now, if both sides got their acts together and actually tried to solve the problem, those lives wouldn't even need to be saved.

But I guess those votes coming from people who actually believe the candidate "will finally crack down on illegal immigration"  sarcastic  are just too easy to get.

The Times (London variety) had an interesting article, arguing that it's mostly immigrants who keep the American population younger than e.g. the European or Japanese ones, thus protecting the US economy from problems related to ageing populations.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months ago) and read 1224 times:

Do you actually think that your average poor Mexican will go now and say:

"Hey look, they are giving away free maps of water tanks and highways in the Sonora Desert! Yeah, let's go to desert right now!"

A piece of paper called "map of water tanks" won't make more people cross the border.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months ago) and read 1215 times:

Maybe a rich printer will print up a couple million false maps with incorrect information and landmarks. Replace the "good" maps with the false ones.

Mark


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1206 times:

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem, there must be a way of helping these people stay alive

Based on your reasoning, we should just Al Queda into the country and not lift a finger to stop their future attacks. After all, since we all agree that terrorism is bad, but we don't have a solution to the problem, we should just help these people accomplish their objective - right?

These people are consciously breaking the law. That the Mexican government is actively aiding them is nothing short of outrageous. Instead of giving them directions on how to violate our laws, how about creating jobs for them in Mexico?

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 13):
Their own animalistic behavior? Do you even know a tiny bit about what you are saying? Start with this thought: Imagine yourself, Slider, born in Mexico, on the other side of the border. All your life you've heard the stories about life in the USA, seen it on TV. You WOULD cross the border illegally if you were given a chance, period. You, Slider, Male, 26-35, RR26, YOU, again, YOU would do the same thing. So now you call this "animalistic behavior". In other words YOU are calling YOURSELF behaving like an animal.

The problem is not the behavior of an individual Mexican. The problem is the behavior of the Mexican government, which is actively encouraging their citizens to violate the laws of another country. Which is appalling behavior for a sovereign country to engage in.

Quoting Acho (Reply 14):
Just because you had the luck of being born in a better place than my "paisanos" you think you are a better than us. These people have dreams of a better life, and because to do this they have to break a "gringo" law they become animals, and not human beings

Let me ask you a question. I have dreams of owning waterfront property, but I can't afford it here in the states because it is too expensive. But in Mexico I could, but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico. So how about I just come down to Mexico and find someone to buy the property for me, and then pay off the local officials to transfer ownership to me. It would be illegal, but hey, I have dreams of a better life, so who cares if my conduct breaks Mexican law?


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico.

Really? Hmmm so I would like you to explain me how did my family (100% Venezuelan) buy a house in Mexico when they moved there last month?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico.

Really? Hmmm so I would like you to explain me how did my family (100% Venezuelan) buy a house in Mexico when they moved there last month?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

When I was in Mexico last October, one of the hotel guides said that Mexico wasn't an easy place for foreigners to buy real property in coastal and other resort areas.

But it was just an example, of course. Are you suggesting that because I can buy land in Mexico, that absolves the Mexican government's complicity in the violation of US law by their citizens? Or can I come down and violate Venezuelan law just because it suits my fancy?


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1187 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):

But it was just an example, of course. Are you suggesting that because I can buy land in Mexico, that absolves the Mexican government's complicity in the violation of US law by their citizens?

No I'm not suggesting any of that and I don't think anything in my post can give you the remote idea of me suggesting that. I'm only asking you out of curiosity... I wanted to know what kind of legal problems you had when you tried to buy a beach house in Mexico, but it looks like you never tried to do so.

So my suggestion is to look for true a credible example when trying to get your point accross, that might earn you more credibility  Silly

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1180 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
No I'm not suggesting any of that and I don't think anything in my post can give you the remote idea of me suggesting that. I'm only asking you out of curiosity... I wanted to know what kind of legal problems you had when you tried to buy a beach house in Mexico, but it looks like you never tried to do so.

So my suggestion is to look for true a credible example when trying to get your point accross, that might earn you more credibility

Please go back and read my post. I never said I actually tried to buy waterfront property. It was an EXAMPLE.

Let me ask you this in a different way. Do I have the right to come down to Mexico and violate ANY of their laws in order to satisfy my dreams of a better life?

[Edited 2006-01-26 04:23:48]

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
No I'm not suggesting any of that and I don't think anything in my post can give you the remote idea of me suggesting that. I'm only asking you out of curiosity... I wanted to know what kind of legal problems you had when you tried to buy a beach house in Mexico, but it looks like you never tried to do so.

So my suggestion is to look for true a credible example when trying to get your point accross, that might earn you more credibility

Well, Luis, I did a quick search on google, and found dozens of entries like the following:

Quote:
The ABC's of Land Ownership
in Coastal mexico

The Bank Trust
Until 1993, it was not possible for foreigners to hold title to land in Mexico that was 100 kilometers from a border, or 50 kilometers from either coast. This was, and indeed, still is, prohibited by the Mexican Constitution. In the 1980s, however, it became obvious to the Mexican government that foreign investment in real estate would be an important way to establish a strong and stable economy.

In 1993, then, the Foreign Investment Law was passed whereby foreigners may purchase land in restricted zones provided the deed is held in trust by a trustee. Thus, banks such as Banamex and Bancomer operate as trustees and can hold your deed in trust for you. The banks, which must hold a permit issued by the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations, charge an annual fee for this service, generally around $500 USD. The trust agreement is valid for 50 years and must be renewed thereafter for another 50 years within 90 days of the expiration of the first term.

It is through the use of this trust arrangement that compliance with the Mexican Constitution can be maintained: technically you, as a foreigner, do not hold your deed. Instead, it is held in trust for you by a trustee.

How is my credibility now?  biggrin 


User currently offlineAcho From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 339 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1165 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
Let me ask you a question. I have dreams of owning waterfront property, but I can't afford it here in the states because it is too expensive. But in Mexico I could, but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico. So how about I just come down to Mexico and find someone to buy the property for me, and then pay off the local officials to transfer ownership to me. It would be illegal, but hey, I have dreams of a better life, so who cares if my conduct breaks Mexican law?

Any country's law should be respected, no argument there. My point was that breaking these laws does not make people less or a "animals" like slider believes. And I have seen this with my own eyes plenty of times, Americans thinking they are superior.


User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1550 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem

There is an actual solution......landmines  Wink



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
I don't think the maps count as "sponsoring" illegal immigration, but as "trying to save lives" which is a good thing by default.

They're trying to save the lifes of criminals. They're promoting crime.
They're also together with other Mexican government agencies constantly trying to prevent actions to stop illegal immigration to the US because the Mexican government makes a lot of money out of it.
And that includes the Mexican army invading the USA and shooting at US border patrol and police units trying to detect and detain illegals. That's an act of war.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3818 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
They're trying to save the lifes of criminals.

So in your opinion, a criminal's life should not be saved? We're not talking about murder here, we're talking about illegal immigration. So you propose death penalty for an illegal immigrant?

Soren  santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1139 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
Do I have the right to come down to Mexico and violate ANY of their laws in order to satisfy my dreams of a better life?

Of course not. Illegal inmigration is a crime, it must be stopped. I just don't agree with some proposals about shooting them in the desert and other radical ideas.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):

How is my credibility now?

Points up definetely! Interesting article. But I still don't know how a Venezuelan friend of my family bought a house in Reynosa, a couple of meters from the Rio Grande, I'll ask them to see if they used one of those banks to buy it for them.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


25 Jdwfloyd : Here's the headline I would like to see in response to this. US Commission To Give Border State Citizens Guns
26 Beefstew25 : We need them, they are coming anyway....lets tax the living shit out of them, and punish any company that hires them on the down low.... The land mine
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Mexican Consulate To Reopen In New Orleans posted Sat Oct 21 2006 18:27:38 by MSYtristar
ElBaradei Wants U.S. To Give Iran Reactors! posted Sat Jan 28 2006 04:12:58 by Falcon84
It's Always Better To Give Than Receive? posted Mon Jan 23 2006 12:50:26 by Cosec59
Who's Going To Give Tom Cruise $ On Weds? posted Mon Jun 27 2005 03:32:02 by Dtwclipper
Want To Give Someone A Mouthful? posted Thu Jan 27 2005 14:12:06 by DIJKKIJK
Nice Speech For Mr. Bush To Give.... posted Sat Jan 15 2005 06:10:02 by DeltaGuy
I Have To Give A Christmas Party Speech posted Fri Dec 3 2004 19:41:00 by Techrep
Paul Hamm Being Pressured By IOC To Give It Up posted Fri Aug 27 2004 19:22:00 by 767Lover
Jack-o To Give Himself Up Today? posted Thu Nov 20 2003 17:05:22 by Tom in NO
Saddam To Give A Historic Speech posted Mon Mar 24 2003 08:30:03 by United777