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Should Muslim Protesters Be Prosecuted?  
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1726 times:

Should the protesters that took part in demonstrations in London be prosecuted?













Muslim protesters who threatened violence during a march in London should be shown "no tolerance", the Conservatives have said.
Shadow home secretary David Davis said some of the placards held amounted to "incitement to murder" and protesters should be dealt with firmly by police.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1722 times:

I'm not familiar with the protests in London. Although, if they violated British law then there is no question that they should be prosecuted. A cartoon in poor taste is no excuse for breaking the law.

The laws do not provide exception for those who have been offended.

- Neil


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1716 times:

It is unacceptable for anyone to take the law into their own hands - the implemention of law is the responsibility of the criminal justice institutions.

I think Muslims have a strange agenda: they're advocating tolerance and acceptance yet are concurrently behaving in the opposite manner.

A lawful protest is totally fine. However, if a law is broken and it is 'worth' a prosecution, then that's also fine. It is important, I think, to consider the message that a prosecution would send out and the likely consequences of one. It's never clear-cut.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1716 times:

Stupid guy, could even get the date right, what happened on 3/11?? If they make threats then they should be arrested and sent packing to afghanistan! I cant stand these whinging Muslims who complain about western culture yet hypocritically live here! They wouldnt survive a day in a strict muslim country without their home comforts! By all means protest and I really think they have a just reason to be angry but dont make serious threats.





[Edited 2006-02-05 11:20:09]


Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1716 times:

It has been claimed that the protesters were carrying placards that were an "incitement to murder".
To my mind they should be dealt with severley.
Whilst I agree that they have a right to demonstrate, they should NOT have gone that far


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1707 times:

Yes I do.
This is the funny thing... some Muslims are against freedom of speech, what we are witnessing on these pictures are Muslims thinking that they are raping the freedom of speech, while the Danish constitution clearly states, that anyone who utters or encourages the harm of other people, be it gender, sex or religion should be punished according to...

I think these placards are NOT within the laws of freedom of speech, to preach beheadings and that Europe's 9/11 is on the way, even this one:
Europe You will pay, Osama Bin Laden is the way

Why are such people living in the UK and Europe??
I mean say it in the MIddle Eeast, but why come here and preech th destruction of our continent???

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1707 times:

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the Madrid Train bombing on 3/11?

- Neil


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter):
Muslim protesters who threatened violence during a march in London should be shown "no tolerance", the Conservatives have said.
Shadow home secretary David Davis said some of the placards held amounted to "incitement to murder" and protesters should be dealt with firmly by police.

Those who do not have British citizenship should be deported and blacklisted from further visits to Britain or the EU. You do not want them.

Those who are British citizens, unfortunately there is not much you can do.


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1694 times:

Yes Neil you are right...

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):
Those who are British citizens, unfortunately there is not much you can do.

They still need to comply with the LAW and therefore prosecuted if any laws have been broken


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1685 times:

Yes, within the boundry of the law.

There is no excuse for this - and these protests are just like any other illegal assembly . . . prosecute them . . . and for those that are burning and destroying property - restitution and harsher prosecution.

Now - all that said: As soon as one of the protestors goes to jail - there'll be the pacifist charging religious persecution.  sarcastic 



User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 11):
they dont like what goes on here, they can fuck off back to their own countries!



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):
Those who are British citizens

Some where born here Matt and therefore are British


User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1669 times:

bloody british empire!

User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1656 times:

Bloody religion!

As children we are forgiven in believing in such things as Santa Claus and God. We grow up and soon realise that both are nothing but ficticious characters. Yet some grown ups choose to carry on "believing" in one, but not the other???

Nutters.



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineIceTitan447 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
It is unacceptable for anyone to take the law into their own hands



Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 11):
Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter):
Should the protesters that took part in demonstrations in London be prosecuted?

HELL YES!!
they dont like what goes on here, they can fuck off back to their own countries!

Couldnt say it any better.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

I note that no-one in this thread has mentioned the utter condemnation of these people from the mainstream Muslim groups. It's worth mentioning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4682262.stm

On Saturday, Asghar Bukhari, chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, said the demonstration in London on Friday should have been stopped by police because the group had been advocating violence.

He said the protesters "did not represent British Muslims".

Mr Bukhari told the BBC News website: "The placards and chants were disgraceful and disgusting, Muslims do not feel that way.

"I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."

He said that Muslims were angry over satirical cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad published in European papers but it was "outrageous" for anyone to advocate extreme action or violence.

"We believe it [the protest] should have been banned and the march stopped.

"It's irrelevant whether it's Muslims causing hatred or anyone else - freedom of speech has to be responsible."


As for these people, I'm not sure whether carrying a banner, offensive as it may be, constitutes sufficient evidence for a prosecution or not. I hope it is though.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 18):
As for these people, I'm not sure whether carrying a banner, offensive as it may be, constitutes sufficient evidence for a prosecution or not. I hope it is though.

Questions:

In the UK, do protesters, for any cause, need a permit to assemble? They do in Alaska.

Could they not be prosecuted for inciting a riot?

I would agree, prosecuting these people - for simply carrying an offensive banner - is untenable. . . the ultimate in hypocracy since they are rioting/protesting over a silly-assed cartoon.

The protesters however that have already burned embassies and destroyed property have lost their right to claim "freedome of speech and assembly". It's gone way beyond that.




[Edited 2006-02-05 12:13:25]

User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1612 times:

Absolutely, anyone carrying such a placard, or chanting such a thing, should be prosecuted.

Peaceful protest is one thing...even if it is misguided when directed against Denmark here. This is another.

Btw, they are not only breaking the law but once again the immediate victims are the 90% of law-abiding Muslims in the UK who disagree strongly with the signs but whose opinions are never published in the newspapers while these idiots hog the headlines. When the tabloids splash these pictures everywhere over and over, you can bet there will be spike in anti-Asian violence and attacks. Denmark should not have to apologize on behalf of the paper; nor should all Muslims be asked to apologize for these losers.

Just arrest them; deport them if they are not citizens. I can't believe they still haven't deported "Hook"...



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter):
Shadow home secretary David Davis said some of the placards held amounted to "incitement to murder" and protesters should be dealt with firmly by police.

Davis is indulging in typical Old Tory kneejerk vote-wrangling. If he was in Clarke's post then nobody would be arrested for Incitement to Murder.

That is one extreme to another, although breach of the peace should be the offence invoked. By all means take them off the street as their behaviour is unacceptable, and let them cool their heels in a cell.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):

In the UK, do protesters, for any cause, need a permit to assemble? They do in Alaska.

Permission is required in that local police must be notified and a route agreed. The police can go through a legal process to ensure an arranged march does not happen, but spontaneous ones like this are technically illegal. However the police tend not to be too heavy on suppressing them unless there are grounds to do so such as safety.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
I would agree, prosecuting these people - for simply carrying an offensive banner - is untenable. . . the ultimate in hypocracy since they are rioting/protesting over a silly-assed cartoon.

The offence which could be invoked here would be conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace. Which is arrestable and normally carries a fine or community penalty.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Are they stupid, don´t they remember what stupid young muslims did in London last year? It´s like Irish would stage a demonstration in London threatening
with violence 6 months after the Brighton bombings in 1984.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 22):
The police can go through a legal process to ensure an arranged march does not happen

Just to clarify, the police have to have a bloody good reason to prevent a march going ahead, usually to do with public order. The marches in Northern Ireland are an example of that, where one side or the other wants to go right through the heartland of their opponents. I cases like this, the police can fairly easily prevent there being any public order problems, so they can't really stop the march - and, obnoxious and objectionable though the placards were, nor should they. It would ironic to talk about freedom of speech and then prevent people protesting, however much they might push the boundaries of acceptability.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 24):
It would ironic to talk about freedom of speech and then prevent people protesting, however much they might push the boundaries of acceptability.

Exactly - hypocracy at it's finest.

I suspected there would be laws requiring lawful assembly.

Perhaps it is better that the local police - in this case - just let it alone. If they interfere what is/was a "peaceful march" could get out of hand.

All this over a damned cartoon???

Glad we aren't like that in the States! All of the GWB cartoons would have all the uber righties in a massive riotous tizzy!  crazy 





User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1554 times:

Banco encouraging or threatening with violence, death, terror and/or hatred is not allowed is it?

That is what these placards are doing!
They are raping the freedom of speech just because they want to abuse it to mock and try to contradict our "excuse" for posting the drawings.

The drawings once again, were posted, because the newpaper felt that they shouldn't simply out of concern as of their own safety and annonymity... That was when they saw that freedom of speech was in danger in the west!

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Of course not. A placard, even if it does say 'Freedom Go To Hell' is still peaceful protest, and protected under law.

What, exactly, should they be prosecuted for? You may not agree with their view, but they're entitled to have it.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

I say : if Danish newspaper should be allowed to offend another religion the subjects should be allowed to counter-offend as well. What goes around comes around. Those who actually cross the line of verbal protest should be prosecuted and deported out of Europe.





2 things are endless: ignorance and space
25 Banco : I think there were a few other banners that went rather further, advocating the murder of people. That's where the issue of possible prosecution as c
26 Post contains images AeroWesty : A pacifist believes in non-violent means to reach an end. Being pacifist does not mean being against a sentence matching the severity of a crime. Per
27 7FTwinOtter : The problem is that it's the most vocal Muslim bigots who get all the attention, all the Muslims i Know are getting on with there lives minding there
28 Mandala499 : The problem is that it's the most vocal Muslim bigots who get all the attention Who's that guy that set up the British Islamic Parliament? LOL I wonde
29 RJpieces : Yes, they should be prosecuted and deported wherever possible. Most importantly, I hope that MI5 has undercover agents there and videotapes every sing
30 LTBEWR : The train bombings/terror attacks that took place in Madrid (2?) years ago. There is such a conterdiction here as to freedom of speech. Of course, th
31 Aleksandar : I have no doubts that Metropolitan Police does that. They always videotape demonstrators. As for whether they should be prosecuted, hmmmm.... yes and
32 777236ER : Prosecuted for what?! It's perfectly legal to protest in this country. It's perfectly legal to have placards calling for death, even. Shurely you're
33 CasInterest : There was a line from an American movie that basically stated You can't practice true freedom of speech, until you grant someone the right to speak ab
34 FSPilot747 : Tear gas. Especially the little b*tch with the 3/11 sign. Is this really over the cartoon?
35 Arsenal@LHR : If they are protesting peacefully and have not broken any laws, then yuo cannot prosecute them for anything. If they turn violent, i.e storming an emb
36 Cosec59 : What about the placards they were carrying? Incitement? I think so
37 Post contains images Cosec59 : The protests on Friday in London over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad saw slogans and placards glorifying the 7 July London bombings
38 Arsenal@LHR : Well you have to interpret the laws in the correct manner, i don't know the exact wording of the racial incitement laws, but if there's a case for pro
39 777236ER : The problem is that all incitement laws on the books are bollocks. Incitement is a bullshit offense, and threats our freedom far much more than any t
40 Cosec59 : I agree.But these placards were advocating the murder of non-muslims. Whilst the majority of muslims in this country would abhor these sentiments, th
41 PIA777 : If they are protesting peacfully, then NO. If they are rioting, throw those bastards in jail. PIA777
42 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I think they should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. They shouldn't have one ounce of compassion for their blatant stupidity. That's my r
43 777236ER : You're wrong. While some views may be vile, we live in a country where you're perfectly entitled to have and express those views - whatever they are.
44 Cosec59 : So you are quite comfortable with the fact that these people were gloryfying the July 7th bombings?
45 GDB : We did not when they were screaming for Rushdie's murder in 1989. Incitement is illegal, but not clear cut. However, many of these uber-pricks did not
46 777236ER : No, but that doesn't mean they should be prosecuted. If you want to have freedom of speech, then you have freedom of speech. You can't have freedom w
47 Marco : If they are protesting peacfully, then NO. If they are rioting, throw those bastards in jail. Using your logic then the people in charge of publishing
48 Cosec59 : But there should be limitations.Where those limits are set is a different matter. Personally I found those placards worrying rather than offensive
49 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : You've got to be kidding me. By your twisted logic, the publishers should be punished in the same manner that the protestors who are destroying build
50 777236ER : If you have limitations on freedom of speech then how, exactly, is it free?
51 Cosec59 : To what degree is there freedom in anything in life? We all have to abide by certain rules/ guidelines. If only to show consideration to others
52 Marco : You've got to be kidding me. By your twisted logic, the publishers should be punished in the same manner that the protestors who are destroying buildi
53 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : How about you go back and read what I wrote. Then, give it a minute and it might sink in. From what you said, you think it is a double standard to le
54 Marco : If the protests were peaceful, this would be a whole different situation and no one would be angered like they are. Did you read the part where I wrot
55 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : That's exactly my point........THERE ISN'T A DOUBLE STANDARD. Don't get me wrong, I still think the ones in London are a bunch of idiots waiting to s
56 777236ER : Well OK, let's ban people from supporting ideas that 'aren't appropriate in the West'. Let's ban Communist and Islamic newspapers. In fact, let's ban
57 Marco : It seems that you're arguing for the sake of arguing, and not for the sake of understanding... so carry on...I'm not wasting my time anymore.
58 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Believe me, I don't care that much. But you haven't understood anything that I've said. Until then, don't waste my time anymore.
59 11Bravo : You are absolutely correct. We need to be very careful pursuing prosecution for any protest activities. That being said, some of those activities are
60 777236ER : Which in itself doesn't make sense. For example, the anti-war protests before the war were perfectly legal. A similar pro-war march, would have been
61 Newark777 : No, a pro-war march would be in support of your country going to war, while these protestors are threatening violence themselves, which is a big diff
62 777236ER : At a macro level, yes. On a personal level, it doesn't matter. Incitement to violence is incitement to violence, whether it's supported by the state
63 Cosec59 : And these people were inciting violence
64 777236ER : Which means nothing. Despite being on the books, it's unlikely that anyone will be convicted under incitement laws because they're simply bollocks. I
65 Cosec59 : Repetition
66 777236ER : Because you don't seem to be getting the point. It's all very well saying 'prosecute them!'. But not only should you not, but you probably couldn't e
67 11Bravo : I agree that some of these statements are incitement and that's very difficult to prosecute, but that is different than making direct threats. "Danis
68 Post contains images BMIFlyer : I think they should all be charged, but knowing how pathetic our legal system is, I have a feeling they wont be Kick 'em all out of the country I say.
69 Jafa39 : You said it, nothing to add but my support!
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