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Any Liberal Parenting Views Out There?  
User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

I am curious as to whether there are any posters on these forums who harbor general or specific parenting views that are more liberal than mainstream parenting views, and if they could mention them. Also who believe in certain firm entitlement rights for children. To get an idea of what I am thinking about, I will give an example of possible views, I will give some examples of liberal/entitling views a parent might hold. Note that some are very general, others are very specific:

"as long as they are good citizens, children should not be forced to do things they don't want. Rules relating to the person of the child should be advised, but parents should not force their child to obey them, but find other ways of trying to persuade the child to take their advice."

"A family is a democracy."

"Parents should not be able to force their child to do X or Y specific thing (eg. wear braces, go to summer camp, look certain way, practice the same religion as the parent, whatever)"

"Without being spoiled, a child should be entitled to a good standard of living while being supported by its parents, not just to basic food, clothing, shelter and medical care."

"Children don't need to go to bed earlier than grownups, at least not all of them."

"Corporal punishment (or insert X kind of discipline) should be illegal."

"The parent's house is the child's house too. If the child is either small, or is getting an education, or is working and helping with family expenses, it has the right to live with its parents."

"A child should have the complete right to spend its free time as it chooses, as long as it does not do anything harmful. Parents should not be able to make a child do soccer, ballet, learn the piano, or other extracurricular activity if it doesn't want to."

"Parents should not be allowed to have their son circumcised or to have their baby daughter's ears pierced."

"Children should be allowed to get piercings if they feel like it."

"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

"Children should have a legal right to loving treatment at the hands of their parents."

These examples I have given are just examples of views. They are not questions (I.E. I am not asking you specifically if you agree with the statements I have written, but whether you harbor any views of this type, and if you can state those views). My goal in this post is simply to survey how much, among people in general, there are those who would hold to such ideas.

Oh, by the way, if you do not hold any views of this type, have you had experience with parents who do or seem to?

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children don't need to go to bed earlier than grownups, at least not all of them."

Children would stay up all night watching TV or something, then school the next day is out.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):

"Corporal punishment (or insert X kind of discipline) should be illegal."

Spanking a child is not all that bad, as long as it's not excessive, I got spanked when I did bad things, and I stopped soon after.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):

"The parent's house is the child's house too. If the child is either small, or is getting an education, or is working and helping with family expenses, it has the right to live with its parents."

Yes for the education, although just because you can earn money and pay for some household needs, dosen't mean you shouldn't move out if you are 25

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):

"Parents should not be allowed to have their son circumcised or to have their baby daughter's ears pierced."

A relatively minor issue, none affects the future sucess of the child.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):

"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

Ha! I don't think so.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Parents should not be able to force their child to do X or Y specific thing (eg. wear braces, go to summer camp, look certain way, practice the same religion as the parent, whatever)"

Getting you child active is essential, helping them meet other people, get fit, learn social skills. I think as a child if my parents hadn't forced me to do activities, I would have watched Simpsons re-runs all day long.

Although I am not a parent, I can promise you that my household will be fair, strict and also fun. But a parent can't just let a child run free. I feel they need to be taught how to behave socially, and how to suceed in life.

Just my thoughts.

- Neil


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 1):
Spanking a child is not all that bad, as long as it's not excessive, I got spanked when I did bad things, and I stopped soon after.

If you can do just one thing for your kids: drop spanking! There's no such thing as "mild spanking". You don't spank your spouse, you don't spank your neighbour, you don't spank your boss. Spank your mistress, if you must.
Do not carry on the failures of the past generations! As we see, the spanked become spankers!


User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1929 times:

Granted I am not a parent yet, but I will be, and from my experiences growing up,

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"A family is a democracy."

"Parents should not be able to force their child to do X or Y specific thing (eg. wear braces, go to summer camp, look certain way, practice the same religion as the parent, whatever)"

No, children do not have the foresight to see and do what will be best for them down the road. I hated braces when I had them, but now, and years from now, Im glad I had them. A lot of this would depend on the specifics of each situation. I hope my children will at least be spiritual, but they do not have to practice any certain religion if the do not want to.

"Without being spoiled, a child should be entitled to a good standard of living while being supported by its parents, not just to basic food, clothing, shelter and medical care."

Again, it depends on the situation. I want my children to be happy and comfortable but I want them to know the value of money and hard work.

"Children don't need to go to bed earlier than grownups, at least not all of them."

Bull. NeilYYZ hit the nail on the head. It maintains some discipline and will help them regulate their schedules to maximize the next day at school, etc.

"Corporal punishment (or insert X kind of discipline) should be illegal."

I too was spanked when I did something wrong, as well as smacked (nothing over the top, but enough to get my attention) in the mouth for saying something inappropriate when I was younger. I will try verbally warning my children first, but I wont be one of those parents who just stands there telling their screaming child to stop in the middle of a crowded super market because I wont buy them fruit snacks.

"The parent's house is the child's house too. If the child is either small, or is getting an education, or is working and helping with family expenses, it has the right to live with its parents."

"A child should have the complete right to spend its free time as it chooses, as long as it does not do anything harmful. Parents should not be able to make a child do soccer, ballet, learn the piano, or other extracurricular activity if it doesn't want to."

"Parents should not be allowed to have their son circumcised or to have their baby daughter's ears pierced."

Up to the parents. Im for the first part, it does not bother me either way, but not so much for the second part.

"Children should be allowed to get piercings if they feel like it."

Not as long as they are under my roof. If my daughter wants her ears pierced, that is of course time.

"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

As soon as my wife and I see that they are mature enough to realize the ramifications of the decisions they will make, they can date. If I feel they are responsible,

"Children should have a legal right to loving treatment at the hands of their parents."

If you are saying children have a right to be loved, I dont know about a legal right but they certainly deserve to be loved. They did not choose to enter the world, they were brought into it by the decisions of their parents. I would hope they would be loved, although this is not always the case.

***Of course, all decisions will have to be approved by my wife.  Wink  Smile



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 2):
Do not carry on the failures of the past generations! As we see, the spanked become spankers!

Failures? My parents spanked me when I did something wrong, and I havent turned out wanting to dye my hair unnatural colors, be "goth", or drop out of school, etc. I have goals, I am told Im level headed and mature for my age, and I want to have a healthy, happy family at some point in my future. So, why then, is spanking bad?



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

This type of attitude is what is getting so many kids screwed up these days. They have no respect for authority or respect in general. And this is coming from a nineteen year old.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

We have this hanging on our refrigerator door. Over the past four years I've caught myself reading and re-reading it countless times.

Children learn what they live:

If a child lives with criticism,
he learns to condemn;
If a child lives with hostility,
he learns to fight;
If a child lives with ridicule,
he learns to be shy;
If a child lives with shame,
he learns to feel guilty;
If a child lives with tolerance,
he learns to be patient;
If a child lives with encouragement,
he learns confidence;
If a child lives with praise,
he learns to appreciate;
If a child lives with fairness,
he learns justice;
If a child lives with security,
he learns to have faith;
If a child lives with approval,
he learns to like himself;
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship,
He learns to love the world.

Each child is different. What works in one family may not work in yours.


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1861 times:

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 4):
So, why then, is spanking bad?

I stress again that you should break the chain of violent behaviour toward little children. I've done that for my part. It's also illegant in this country. Bringing up a balanced child does not require violent parenting, on the contrary.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"as long as they are good citizens, children should not be forced to do things they don't want.

Being a good citizen often means doing things that you might not really want to do. Like paying taxes.

Kids are stupid by nature. That's why they have to go to school and be educated in social requirements by their parents. Kids, left on their own, will learn nothing other than how to operate a TV remote, a Playstation, and find ways to get into trouble with his friends.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"A family is a democracy."

Absolute, utter bullshit.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Parents should not be able to force their child to do X or Y specific thing (eg. wear braces, go to summer camp, look certain way, practice the same religion as the parent, whatever)"

While the parents should take what the child wants into account, If the parent believes that the child's wants are unreasonable, and that he will eventually appreciate what you are trying to do, the parent should have the right of final decision.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Without being spoiled, a child should be entitled to a good standard of living while being supported by its parents, not just to basic food, clothing, shelter and medical care."

 checkmark 

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children don't need to go to bed earlier than grownups, at least not all of them."

Bull. Children need plenty of sleep. Babies sleep most of the day. A 10-year old is a slug without at least 10 hours of sleep. An adult can get by with 6 hours of sleep, and sometimes less. But not a child.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Corporal punishment (or insert X kind of discipline) should be illegal."

Spanking should be allowed, within reason. Kids sometimes will refuse to listen to reason, and you have to have some backup tool to enforce the rules. A judicial spanking now is better than prison later.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"The parent's house is the child's house too. If the child is either small, or is getting an education, or is working and helping with family expenses, it has the right to live with its parents."

 checkmark , but it is the parents who pay the bills and make sure that the family HAS a home.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"A child should have the complete right to spend its free time as it chooses, as long as it does not do anything harmful. Parents should not be able to make a child do soccer, ballet, learn the piano, or other extracurricular activity if it doesn't want to."

Parents must work to prevent the child from doing things that will eventually be harmful, like watching TV or playing computer games all day.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Parents should not be allowed to have their son circumcised or to have their baby daughter's ears pierced."

Circumcision is arguably a hygene issue, so I question that. Piercing a baby's ears is just stupid.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children should be allowed to get piercings if they feel like it."

No. My son once came home with a piercing, and I made him lose it, and he later told me that I was right.

For girls it's different, as far as earings are concerned.

But I draw the line at noserings, eyebrows, and other stupid piercings. People don't need to look like a walking hardware store. Noserings make you look like a cow.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

But I will (and have) prevented my children from spending time with kids who I feel are a bad influence. As long as your criteria are reasonable.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children should have a legal right to loving treatment at the hands of their parents."

 checkmark 

Just remember, love does not mean you let them do whatever they want. That's not love, that is convenience and indifference. Love means not being afraid to interfere when you feel that they are on the wrong path.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

Dependent upon the age of the child, and using my 11 year old daughter as an example, I offer the following:

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"as long as they are good citizens, children should not be forced to do things they don't want. Rules relating to the person of the child should be advised, but parents should not force their child to obey them, but find other ways of trying to persuade the child to take their advice."

   For every action there is a consequence. Some are positive and some are negative. If the action is negative, the consequence will be as well. One of the reasons teenagers and young adults so dicked up these days is because parents didn't take the time to make them mind. Easier to stick 'em in front of the X-Box . . .

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"A family is a democracy."

   and    This is a lousy question. It is only a democracy when it comes to "What's for dinner" . . . . it is not a democracy when it comes to clean your room, get ready for school, help with what ever chore you have been assigned . . .

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Parents should not be able to force their child to do X or Y specific thing (eg. wear braces, go to summer camp, look certain way, practice the same religion as the parent, whatever)"

Again, another vague question. Summer camp? Who gives a damn about summer camp? Braces - if necessary, yes. Look a certain way - damn skippy, if you're going to be with me, clean, appropriately dressed (by that I mean clothes that fit, and are clean, and don't have prepackaged holes in the damn things, aren't hanging off your ass, don't show profanity, and if you wear a hat the bill of the hat GOES OVER THE FOREHEAD!). Religion - I could care less, as long as you don't burn down the house if I show you cartoon that offends you.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Without being spoiled, a child should be entitled to a good standard of living while being supported by its parents, not just to basic food, clothing, shelter and medical care."

   My daughter has what she needs, and most of what she wants. She earns some of it, but usually . . . I just get it. Why not, I can afford it, she has an interest in it, it won't hurt me, it won't hurt her. . . why not.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children don't need to go to bed earlier than grownups, at least not all of them."

   Proven that children need more rest. Besides if they aren't sleeping, no nookie for Mom and Dad   

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Corporal punishment (or insert X kind of discipline) should be illegal."

       redflag  Another reason teenagers and young adults are so massively screwed up. No one ever gave them a good spanking. For the record I think I've only smacked my daughter on the bottom - maybe twice. If you are doing your job as a parent - it will never come to corporal punishment. I have never spanked her. Never had to.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"The parent's house is the child's house too. If the child is either small, or is getting an education, or is working and helping with family expenses, it has the right to live with its parents."

When that child reaches 18 that child better have a J O B or be in S C H O O L or that child has some explaining to do. And that child WILL pay rent - unless they are in school. I have told may daughter she can live in my house as long as she's in school . . . college/university included . . . at no cost to her. That's includes my paying her fees. As soon as she's graduated, well - like I just said - time to get a J O B. Rent's due on the 1st.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"A child should have the complete right to spend its free time as it chooses, as long as it does not do anything harmful. Parents should not be able to make a child do soccer, ballet, learn the piano, or other extracurricular activity if it doesn't want to."

   But it could be suggested that the child broaden his/her horizons and experience other things. My daughter does gymnastics twice week, is in the school and church choir, and plays the clarinet in school.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Parents should not be allowed to have their son circumcised or to have their baby daughter's ears pierced."

   Strictly up to the parents.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children should be allowed to get piercings if they feel like it."

When pigs fly outta my ass. With the single exception of pierced ears, my child, as long as she remains a child, better never put another hole in her body that God didn't put there in the first place. Period, end.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

One more time with the pigs! Not a chance in hell. I don't have a specific age in mind as to when I think my daughter ought to start dating. That will depend on many, many things. Not the least of which is the person she wants to date. Some specifics - please see my remarks above about dress, appearance, piercings, clothing, cleanliness . . . . and remember - I'm armed.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children should have a legal right to loving treatment at the hands of their parents."

Right??? No, not a right in the legal sense. But a moral right, yes. No matter what, it is your child - loving treatment is morally obligated. All the things above in this post are examples thereof.







[Edited 2006-02-07 11:01:26]

User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

There's only one parenting rule I have for myself: Don't have kids.

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Dependent upon the age of the child, and using my 11 year old daughter as an example,

11! Greatest age for a daughter. Enjoy it. Mine is 19. Once she hits 12 or 13 and starts looking a boys, it gets tough.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children don't need to go to bed earlier than grownups, at least not all of them."

Proven that children need more rest. Besides if they aren't sleeping, no nookie for Mom and Dad

LOL!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Corporal punishment (or insert X kind of discipline) should be illegal."

Another reason teenagers and young adults are so massively screwed up. No one ever gave them a good spanking. For the record I think I've only smacked my daughter on the bottom - maybe twice. If you are doing your job as a parent - it will never come to corporal punishment. I have never spanked her. Never had to.

I made my position on spanking clear in my earlier post. But I NEVER ONCE had to spank my kids. Not once. My wife gave a spanking every once and a while (maybe a half-dozen times in all), and it generally came with a warning that if they transgressed again, Dad would administer the spanking, and I am a lot stronger. I never had to test that thesis.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

One more time with the pigs! Not a chance in hell. I don't have a specific age in mind as to when I think my daughter ought to start dating. That will depend on many, many things. Not the least of which is the person she wants to date. Some specifics - please see my remarks above about dress, appearance, piercings, clothing, cleanliness . . . . and remember - I'm armed.

Like I said, it will be tough. I have had to lay down the law with my daughter. Once I chased a boy away from the house with a bat, after he started talking back to me. My daughter eventually learned to tell her visiting boyfriends to get rid of any piercings, dress properly, and speak respectfully to her parents. 10 o'clock means 10 o'clock.

This is a useful guide. I have actually used parts of it!

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/3456/h_rulesdating.html

My favorite is this one:

Rule Nine:
Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me.


I've actually used that line, and it works!!!

[Edited 2006-02-07 11:28:23]

User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

CFalk, you are hereby nominated the STANDARD REFERENCE personality of oppressive conservative values and behaviour. Personally, I get the creeps of horror from this. All that nicely worded violence hidden in a gold-brimmed case .... I guess you were spanked a lot? Behave ... or Daddy will spank you!

[Edited 2006-02-07 13:55:09]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Rule Ten:
Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy near Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine.


This was designed just for me.  laughing  wink 





User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 12):
I guess you were spanked a lot? Behave ... or Daddy will spank you!

I got spanked maybe 3 or 4 times, max. Sometimes fear of punishment is the only thing that works. Or are you the type of guy that does not believe in prisons?

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 12):
CFalk, you are hereby nominated the STANDARD REFERENCE personality of oppressive conservative values and behaviour.

I guess that just means I love my kids more than you.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"as long as they are good citizens, children should not be forced to do things they don't want. Rules relating to the person of the child should be advised, but parents should not force their child to obey them, but find other ways of trying to persuade the child to take their advice."

You're kidding, right?

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"A family is a democracy."

Yes, it is. But mom and dad always have more votes than the children.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Parents should not be able to force their child to do X or Y specific thing (eg. wear braces, go to summer camp, look certain way, practice the same religion as the parent, whatever)"

 rotfl  As another poster noted, children don't have the capacity to always know what is best for them. So yes, parents can force their kids to do things they don't want to do.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Without being spoiled, a child should be entitled to a good standard of living while being supported by its parents, not just to basic food, clothing, shelter and medical care."

Just what is a "good standard of living?" If the parents can only afford to provide basic food, clothing, shelter and medical care, then that's what their children will get. There isn't a constitutional right to an Xbox, Ipod, or plasma screen TV.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children should be allowed to get piercings if they feel like it."

Once they are on their own, paying their own way through life, they can become a human pincushion. Until then, if mom and dad say no piercings, no piercings.

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children can date as soon as they feel ready."

Once they are on their own, paying their own way through life, they can date who and when they want. Are you detecting a trend in my responses?  biggrin 

Quoting Duke (Thread starter):
"Children should have a legal right to loving treatment at the hands of their parents."

While one would hope that every parent loves their children, to make it a legal requirement is absurd.


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 2):
Do not carry on the failures of the past generations! As we see, the spanked become spankers!

The failures are in NOT spanking your children when they are wrong. One of the biggest reasons for juvinile deliquents today is the fact that they did not learn any respect for their parents/teachers/coaches/law enforcement, etc. This respect comes from proper disipline. Sure, they're exceptions to every rule, but as a rule, children will push the limits with all authority figures, and if they're are no consequences for exceeding those limits, well, you are simply raising a burden for society later down the road....

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 4):
So, why then, is spanking bad?

It's not. See above.

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 7):
I stress again that you should break the chain of violent behaviour toward little children

Violent behaviour - sure! Spanking is NOT violent behaviour.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
When that child reaches 18 that child better have a J O B or be in S C H O O L or that child has some explaining to do. And that child WILL pay rent - unless they are in school. I have told may daughter she can live in my house as long as she's in school . . . college/university included . . . at no cost to her. That's includes my paying her fees. As soon as she's graduated, well - like I just said - time to get a J O B. Rent's due on the 1st.

I agree, but I'll at least give him until the fifth of the month before I tack on late-fees.  Big grin


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1776 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 16):
Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 2):
Do not carry on the failures of the past generations! As we see, the spanked become spankers!

The failures are in NOT spanking your children when they are wrong.

Were you spanked as a kid? More than once? Do you feel a need to "understand" and protect your dad (?) for his doing so?

At least in my generation and in my country kids are not spanked, fortunately the lawmakers have agreed with this policy as well. It is unfortunate if your authority as a mature adult rests on your ability to physically harm your kids, but that might simply be your culture of doing things.


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 17):
Were you spanked as a kid? More than once? Do you feel a need to "understand" and protect your dad (?) for his doing so?

Sure... I wasn't an angel. It instilled respect for authority in me, and I turned out pretty well. I'm not in jail, not destitute. I've had, and am still having a pretty good life. Married to a great girl for about 24 years now, we have a fifteen year-old son who's doing good in school, plays baseball for the high school team, and is a real good kid. That doesn't mean I have slapped his ass a few times over the years. I think he'll be better for it!

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 17):
rests on your ability to physically harm your kids

A spanking is not physically harming kids. It may cause a little pain in the butt, which is why it's administered, but no harm is done. In fact, I believe a lot a good comes from it.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6774 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
Rule Nine:
Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me.

LOL! Classic...the proverbial "Dad with a chainsaw" shtick...funny stuff!

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 17):
At least in my generation and in my country kids are not spanked,

To each his own. I'm not an advocate of spanking per se, but I believe it it a tool in the large parenting toolbox.

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 17):
fortunately the lawmakers have agreed with this policy as well.

Great- so Finland has instituttionalized being a pussy. I guess that helps explain some of the egregious crime stats and interesting factoids of your country. Contempt for the law and a lack of personal responsibility and discipline is ingrained...no wonder.

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/finland.shtml

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 17):
It is unfortunate if your authority as a mature adult rests on your ability to physically harm your kids, but that might simply be your culture of doing things.

The authority as an adult and parent that I possess is that I have the responsibility to raise children that have respect for the law, respect for their elders, respect for authority and the wisdom to be able to address situations that affect all 3. Spanking is one means of that, but physicality isn't the exclusive domain, nor has anyone implied it is.


User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1741 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 14):
I got spanked maybe 3 or 4 times, max. Sometimes fear of punishment is the only thing that works.

Definatly, if I screwed up in a big way, I got spanked. When a kid gets spanked and told why they were spanked (it is essential that the child know why, otherwise it is just hitting them for in their mind, no reason) a little light will go off in their head, that, "oh crap, I did X, and I didn't really like the result, I won't do that anymore." I'm not saying that other methods don't work, but spanking your kid is not anywhere near beating them, it shows them in a quick concise and powerful way that a certain behavior is not acceptable.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 15):
So yes, parents can force their kids to do things they don't want to do.

Of course, if it were up to me when I was a kid, I'd eat chocolate bars, drink Pepsi and watch TV all day long, then get up, and do it all over again. Most of the time when a parent forces a kid to do something it is in the best interests of the child, perhaps not in the immediate future, but in the distant future. That is the problem with kids, they have one track minds, they think in terms of what is going to make them happy now, and if it's a really bright kid, what will make them happy in 10 minutes. Kids need to be shown direction and discipline so that they are not wandering aimlessly around life.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 16):
One of the biggest reasons for juvinile deliquents today is the fact that they did not learn any respect for their parents/teachers/coaches/law enforcement, etc.

Kids need to be kept busy, there is no doubt, I agree 100%. Put your kid in sports, piano, dance, I don't care, keep them busy. Although I am only 20 and I'm sure most of you don't put much weight in my arguments on this topic, I was always kept busy in high school, and I never got into any big trouble. I see kids, 9-13 hanging out at the mall and wasting their time and all I can think about is, either - Where are your parents and what are they doing that's so important? or Why don't you get off your arse and go become smarter, or play some sports? Kids need to realize that what they do now, affects what they will potentially be able to do in the future. Of course they can't see that, and that is the reason that we have the Mom and or Dad.

- Neil


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1712 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 18):
Sure... I wasn't an angel. It instilled respect for authority in me, and I turned out pretty well. [Of the Son] .... I have slapped his ass a few times over the years. I think he'll be better for it!

Thanks. Just as I thought. The spanked become spankers. And then the tradition goes on.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 17):
fortunately the lawmakers have agreed with this policy [corporal punishment of children is illegal] as well.

Great- so Finland has instituttionalized being a pussy. I guess that helps explain some of the egregious crime stats and interesting factoids of your country. Contempt for the law and a lack of personal responsibility and discipline is ingrained...no wonder.

Translation from Sliderspeak: "I could not be bothered to look for any statistics, so I just put a link somewhere"

And don't let any sissy social science get in the way:

"Spanking Argument #3 - “If we don't spank children, they'll grow up rotten”

Children in seventeen countries (2005) are growing up without being hit in homes, in daycare or in schools. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Finland and other countries that have banned corporal punishment of children in general have low rates of interpersonal violence compared to the United States. Critics predicted that Swedish youth would grow up more unruly after parents stopped spanking because of the l979 corporal punishment ban. Dr. Joan Durrant who studied effects of the ban for l5 years reported that this did not happen. Her studies indicate youth did not become more unruly, under socialized or self-destructive following the ban. In fact, she said most measures demonstrated a substantial improvement in youth well-being (Durrant, 2000)."

From: http://www.stophitting.com/disathome/factsAndFiction.php

"Over the last couple of decades, a number of studies have revealed a wide range of negative effects of spanking. One three-year study, conducted by Murray Straus of the University of New Hampshire, found evidence that this traditional practice leads to more antisocial behaviors.2 The study found that mothers who had spanked even once during a test week reported higher rates of antisocial behavior by their children two years following the spankings.

Other studies have revealed similar effects. Three separate studies of children with serious conduct problems, conducted by Grozier and Katz (1979), Patterson (1982), and Webster-Stratton et al. (1988, 1990), found that when spanking was discontinued and other forms of discipline and behavior management were used instead, the children's behavior improved. A study conducted by researchers at McMasters University found that anxiety disorders, drug and alcohol problems, antisocial behavior, and depression were more prevalent among adults who had been spanked as children.3 Because of this vast amount of research, the American Academy of Pediatrics has called for a ban on school spanking. "

From: http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...hild/discipline/spare_the_rod.html

[Edited 2006-02-08 01:12:04]

User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6774 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1661 times:

Again, the incarceration and crime stats of your own homeland would betray your quoting miscellaneous psychobabble.

Modern shrinks aren't experts...they claim to be enlightened and in one-two generations, we've shrugged off centuries of proven parenting methods and now look at crime, discipline, mere civil society....you're telling me that's an improvement?

Open your eyes.


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 22):
we've shrugged off centuries of proven parenting methods and now look at crime, discipline, mere civil society....you're telling me that's an improvement?

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win the prize. Excellant point! Welcome to my RU list!


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

As my mom told me, "You have the right to get piercings and tattoos, but if you do you better start looking for other ways to pay for college." Well, let's just say I didn't get any.  Wink

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
25 Eilennaei : I'm still waiting for those stats. I wonder where you found them?
26 Slider : Go check the link...it's posted. I don't hang my case on that, but by the same token, you cannot conclusively state that not spanking and pussificatio
27 Eilennaei : I did already, but since it is of a very meagre value, and moreover, does not promote your point, I asked again. Couple of general points on the data
28 Post contains images AGM100 : I am a single father of three 9,11,13 , I come from a family of 7 kids We had great parents ,but we all turned out completely different. I just follow
29 Duke : Okay, thanks for the answers, now I will re-join the discussion. On this board, I have hinted at some of my pro-child rights stance several times (I c
30 Halls120 : The problem in this country is that too many parents go overboard in the opposite direction from the bare room/bare necessities option which I agree
31 Slider : My point is that if you believe not spanking makes for better children and a better society, your own nation's crime stats would contradict that asse
32 Eilennaei : Actually, if you recall, it was you who forcefully said that not hitting children will cause an increased crime rate. As you yourself note, this is n
33 Slider : No I didn't forcefully say anything. You clearly implied that spanking is bad, as evidenced by your own quotes here. So if it's bad, where's the comm
34 Post contains images AGM100 : Quoting Halls120 (Reply 30): Parenting is a balancing act...you're always on the edge of that razor- too much, not enough, too firm, not firm enough a
35 Slider : AGM- Don't get me wrong- I am consistent in the message. Actions have consequences. Control your emotions. My boys finish those sentences for me now..
36 Post contains links Eilennaei : Slider, this might interest you, but I'm not expecting a comment. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html http://www.sentencingproject.org
37 AGM100 : Slider , you know every thing I said sure sounds good. Sometimes it does not work like it sounds . But it takes alot of work and patience How many Boy
38 Duke : Okay, I have finally found the time to write this. My position on parental control and discipline. What I am about to write is controversial, but it's
39 Post contains images Halls120 : Good luck, friend. When your children turn out to be spoiled incorrigible brats, remember you were warned. How are you going to "enforce" your lesson
40 MD-90 : Nope, I'm not naive enough to believe in any of those things. I would be a thoroughly conservative parent.
41 Duke : Hals120, here is the way that a parent can enforce discipline without using traditional punitive methods: 1. You teach your child right from wrong. 2.
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