Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UK Graduates "Unfit For Work"  
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

It seems that more and more graduate vacancies are left unfilled as firms find that new graduates in the UK increasingly don't seem to have the skills required.

Most damning is perhaps:

"Poor spelling, grammar and mathematical ability mean that graduates are making basic mistakes, writing illiterate memos and are in need of constant supervision."

I have to admit, when we went through a recruiting process for a recent graduate at my old company, the standard of some of the letters and CVs from people who supposedly had first class honours degrees were quite appalling. Some of the interviews were even worse.....

Anyone else think this is true ?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2028167,00.html


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
Anyone else think this is true ?

Absolutely. After all, would you hire somebody like Pe@rson?  yuck   no 



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 1):
Absolutely. After all, would you hire somebody like Pe@rson?

Absolutely. After all, what girl would want someone like Aleksandar?  yuck   Sad



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
After all, what girl would want someone like Aleksandar?

Sophisticated, one that appreciates my true qualities: GOOD LOOKS, SENSE OF HUMOUR, INTELIGENCE

Oh, BTW, James you are so dead  yes 



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Cornish, have you ever thought that they were saying the same about you only 10 to 15 years ago.  biggrin 

little vc10


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 3):
Sophisticated, one that appreciates my true qualities: GOOD LOOKS, SENSE OF HUMOUR, INTELIGENCE

So intelligent, Aleksandar, that you can't even spell it properly?  Wink

'Nuff said.  Big grin



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

Quoting VC10 (Reply 4):
Cornish, have you ever thought that they were saying the same about you only 10 to 15 years ago.

Nope Big grin

But then my English was better than the Australian boss that hired me  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
But then my English was better than the Australian boss that hired me

Don't get too cocky: few Australians can speak proper English.  Silly



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

Whatever happened to hiring people who have the ability to do the job? All this reliance on pieces of paper has proved time and again to be wrong. You can have the intelligence of an Einstein and still be as thick as pig-sh*t in practical and ordianry matters.

A graduate is no guarentee of "the right person". However, in their defence, graduates do show a higher level of learning capability. Shouldn't then the priority be to ensure these people HAVE the right skills to communicate in writing and speach? To add up their own (often enormous) salary? Seems to me the graduate system concentrates too much on speciality subjects and not enough on generality.

Perhaps I'm just biased, but many graduates that I have met don't seem to have a grasp of the everyday functions of a company or organisation. Long on buzz words, short on common sense! Big grin

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
"Poor spelling, grammar and mathematical ability mean that graduates are making basic mistakes, writing illiterate memos and are in need of constant supervision."

I have to admit, when we went through a recruiting process for a recent graduate at my old company, the standard of some of the letters and CVs from people who supposedly had first class honours degrees were quite appalling. Some of the interviews were even worse.....

Anyone else think this is true ?

I have a file full of resumes and cover letters I've saved over the years that are breathtakingly awful.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 8):
Whatever happened to hiring people who have the ability to do the job? All this reliance on pieces of paper has proved time and again to be wrong. You can have the intelligence of an Einstein and still be as thick as pig-sh*t in practical and ordianry matters.

But if you can't take the time to make sure your resume and cover letter are properly prepared, what does that say about your attention to detail? A lot, and it is not very positive.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 8):
You can have the intelligence of an Einstein and still be as thick as pig-sh*t in practical and ordianry matters.



Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 8):
Shouldn't then the priority be to ensure these people HAVE the right skills to communicate in writing and speach?

Yes. (It's speech, by the way.)

I definitely subscribe to the theory that it is essential to accept those onto a degree course who can demonstrate experience of using the mandatory skills, such as organisation, written and oral communication, time- and project-management skills, leadership and dedication, rather than primarily going by grades (although they're somewhat indicative of some of those skills - but not sufficient per se). Not only would they probably peform more effectively, and thus result in a better-regarded university, but they'd also be far better placed to get good employment - especially if you spend time developing those skills still further through innovative means. I wonder whether I'll have any input in acceptance when I don my patched jacket. Hmm.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 8):
Whatever happened to hiring people who have the ability to do the job? All this reliance on pieces of paper has proved time and again to be wrong.

There speaks someone who lost out to a spotty graduate at some point.  Wink



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 8):
Perhaps I'm just biased, but many graduates that I have met don't seem to have a grasp of the everyday functions of a company or organisation. Long on buzz words, short on common sense!

 checkmark  It also amazes me now how I've come across more and more graduates who come into a job and then think certain tasks are too good for them. They seem to think that they have a degree and that immediately qualifies them to be writing the key reports for a key client and how dare they have to compile a mailing list or do some data entry.

That annoys me intently, mainly because I would do anything I was asked when I started out in aviation. I had an MA and I happily did data entry and the likes when asked to as quickly and efficiently as possible. As a result I got other better things to do and thats how i was able to prove myself and move up the ladder.

But now some of these new starters throw a strop the moment they are given something to do that they think is beneath them. It annoys me because I've never given anyone something to do that i wouldn't be prepared to do myself.

It also amazes me how so many supposedly bright graduates don't do a little bit of research (easy in the internet age) on the company they are going to for an interview. Number of times i've asked them to tell me what they know about my company or organisation and they couldn't tell me anything.....

Cornish -  grumpy   old  interviewer !



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
Yes. (It's speech, by the way.)

I don ave a digree in nuffink. Big grin

But I can still write a reasonable letter, CV and communicate on a general level. I occasionally make a spelling error (Thank you James for pointing that minor discrepancy out!) but I do try to use the correct punctuation and what have you.

My son is a prime example of that which we speak. He has a lot of knowledge, interest and learning ability. However, when reading some of the stuff he puts together for projects and schoolwork, I have to continually point out basic spelling and grammatical mistakes. And he does most of his work on the PC which has spell check!!

He hopes to go to Uni, to study either Paleontology or something similar. I keep telling him if he cannot write a letter or project himself properly, then he stands a better chance of flying to the moon on British Airways!

Ah well, the struggle continues!

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

I thought this thread was about Kirkie . . . . I was all set to join in!  rotfl  wink 

User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Oh and another thing while I'm in  grumpy  mode (you can tell a minion hasn't done what he was asked today!), has anyone else noticed that the quality of tea-making by these juniors has also gone downhill rapidly. What is the world coming to  Wink


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 13):
I don ave a digree in nuffink.

Am I bovrd? Do I lk bovrd? R u callin me a piky? Yeahbutnobutyeah.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
I thought this thread was about Kirkie . . . . I was all set to join in!

No no no. If it was about Kirkie ANC I would have titled the thread:

UK Graduates "Drunk and Unwashed for Work" Big grin



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

It doesn't suprise me - so many go to uni now, the degree is undervalued. In addition, so little actual work is done by most (I looked at a course that had a massive 17 hours teaching a week) that they pick up all the skills for socialising and drinking, but without the practical applications. Which is why uni never appealed to me, and I have avoided it.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineAirEuropeUK733 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 978 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 13):
don ave a digree in nuffink.

Nor me, but, as has been said above, graduates these days think they are owed something by employers, just because they have a degree!

Quoting Cornish (Reply 12):
That annoys me intently, mainly because I would do anything I was asked when I started out in aviation. I had an MA and I happily did data entry and the likes when asked to as quickly and efficiently as possible. As a result I got other better things to do and thats how i was able to prove myself and move up the ladder.

But now some of these new starters throw a strop the moment they are given something to do that they think is beneath them. It annoys me because I've never given anyone something to do that i wouldn't be prepared to do myself.

It also amazes me how so many supposedly bright graduates don't do a little bit of research (easy in the internet age) on the company they are going to for an interview. Number of times i've asked them to tell me what they know about my company or organisation and they couldn't tell me anything.....

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

I've just had an interview at a company and I spent a couple of hours searching the net for information on them. They always ask what you know of their company and it shows that you have taken the time to find out about them. They have taken the time to read your CV!!

Saw a programme yesterday and it showed some lass in a Job Centre lookibg through jobs and she said

'I'm not working for the minimum wage - I have degree!!' - Take what your offered and get your foot on the career ladder you lazy cow!!

AE733  grumpy   old  git



It's nice to fly with friends
User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
that you can't even spell it properly?

I've just noticed it  banghead   cry 



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 11):
There speaks someone who lost out to a spotty graduate at some point.

Ah, unfortunately no. But I have had several "bosses" of that ilk. Johnny come lately's trying to tell experienced people how to do their job. "I've been to university, ergo I am superior to you and I know how to do the job"

It always ends up the same - "Please tell me how I get out of this mess"" Big grin

Age and experience etc Big grin

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 18):
In addition, so little actual work is done by most (I looked at a course that had a massive 17 hours teaching a week) that they pick up all the skills for socialising and drinking, but without the practical applications.

Then that is their stupid fault.

I actually chat to a stupid girl who is at university now and has recently commented that she found her A Levels more difficult. Upon questioning her, I discovered that she doesn't do any work. She seemed shocked when I told her she'll fail with an absurd attitude like that. Idiot.

When I did my undergraduate degree, I actually worked extremely hard - probably 8 hours or so a day - not least because I HAD to do that or else I'd get a 2:2 or a 3rd and be barely employable. However, I also had a very good social life - I went out most nights or every other night - which was achievable because I could wake-up at 7am the next morning and not have a hangover.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePilot kaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):

It is very true. I hate to admit but I have these problems myself. The problem lays within schools, They are saying how they want to stop bunking and improve the school system but I bet not one MP has gone into the basic school class room to see what the real source of the problem is, Its not students not arrending its to MANY students in one class with only 1 member of staff for around 40 students... Whats wrong with that you ask?

Kids today dont have no respect for teachers, I have whitnessed teachers running out the room crying, Stuff being chucked at teachers, Students constantly shouting out in class so staff can not teach, It happened in EVERY lesson. Plus comes the bullying, students bullying other and teachers not giving a scond look.. so what happens? The bullyed students is mearly to god damn scared to go to class and bunk off school.. Bullying is a big problem, I have seen FULL CANS of coke being chucked at students, Students being beating after class if they tried to respond to a Bully, and being haunted about it.

My school was terrible for this.... In the end the teachers gave up on ALL of us because of this problem, Students stopped coming in, I heard everyday of thier plans to improve the school but All I saw was new Tabel and chairs and the other improvment was our head teacher treating herself to a £20,000 office and lounge area for visitors, nice seats, waterfull, her office was the size of a classroom, personal bath room (inc Shower) infact they had to demolish 3 class rooms to make this new sweat which even students could not visit.

You ask me or any of my friends anything simple and we would not be able to awnser you, I wont even preform a spell check to show you what I mean.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 21):
Age and experience etc




Isn't it the truth!








25 Post contains images Banco : Oh, I agree with you entirely. It's all part of the Peter Principle, and on such a basis should be encouraged as much as possible, in order to give e
26 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : " target=_blank>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article....html I hate to say it, guy, but you have "become your parents". I wonder if the sixteen year o
27 Oly720man : Who's motto, real or alleged was "you don't get trained here, you get here trained"? Since we have an education system where it's the taking part that
28 Post contains images Skidmarks : I think perhaps the last statement was slightly tongue in cheek. I also think you'll find our Cornish can have fun with the best of us. However, he ha
29 Post contains images Cornish : Erm I don't think you quite got this one. The paragraph on tea-making was a complete piss-take towards certain younger A.netters who almost certainly
30 Post contains images AirEuropeUK733 : Especially when it's aimed at certain people - you know who you are...! Now, I am having a bit of an identity crisis - one day I'm a GOG and the next
31 Post contains images Cornish : I'll get one of the graduate trainees to bring it down to you
32 Post contains images Pe@rson : Why are you mentioning me? I didn't get it. You weird Cornish person you.
33 Post contains images Cornish : Fortunately as of last week I don't have to deal with those children for a while now either This is true, However some people are much more practical
34 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : You're still a young guy, Cornish. As for me, I'll be forty years old in June but will always be a young guy (for what it's worth, I believe in respo
35 Post contains images Aleksandar : If you had Pe@rson in your mind, I'm afraid that tea will have to wait. Young lad is washing windows right now. Just as you've ordered him. Remember?
36 Post contains images Cornish : Why thank you. Don't often hear that on here
37 Post contains images Skidmarks : Young in body, positively ancient in mind - approaching senility Unlike myself hehehe! Andy
38 Post contains images Cornish : Oh yes I forgot. Sent him out to wash the sixth floor windows
39 Post contains images Pe@rson : Without a ladder or a pully contraption or anything.
40 Post contains images Cornish : No none of them. See what I mean? Today's graduates - no initiative whatsoever
41 Post contains images Banco : That's only because he's never clapped eyes on you.
42 Post contains images Aleksandar : Naturally
43 Post contains images Pe@rson : Nope. Lots of initiative. Indeed, I use my initiative every day in creating inventive forms of procrastination.
44 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : For what it's worth, I enjoy "old guy" stuff; Frank Sinatra tunes, American WWII patriotic songs, cigars, and the like Good day Russell
45 Post contains images Aleksandar : So, since our darling little Pe@rson is on the sixth floor doing the only thing he actually knows (washing windows), there is something that bothers m
46 Post contains images Cornish : Excellent - you're finally grasping the concept
47 Post contains images Pe@rson : More than you, you sack of spuds. You make JPG look skinny. I grasped the concept when I was at school.
48 Aleksandar : There's only one way to make me believe in it. JUMP!!!!
49 Post contains images Pe@rson : Ladies first. So, Alek, go first.
50 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : I'm an American; I'll jump first (just make sure the rope around my waist is snug ) Good day Russell
51 Post contains images Aleksandar : This lady will make some serious damage to your nose first
52 Post contains images Pe@rson : You must have an usually long............................ arm, then, seeing you're in Serbia and I'm in the UK. Most odd. Shall I ring the Guinness B
53 Post contains images Cornish : And that's one BIG nose you've got to damage
54 Post contains images Aleksandar : What can I say, ladies love it It would be such a pleasure
55 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : I hate to point out the obvious but you started your last sentence with a conjunction. This may be within the rules, however, it's still poor grammar
56 Post contains images Skidmarks : Hey, I left school 36 years ago. I just about scraped a grade 3 English GCE. And you expect me to be perfect? Anyway, I is betterer than most yoofs!
57 WhiteHatter : I am aware of one company which takes applications from graduates and sorts them into three categories. First lot from Oxbridge graduates goes into t
58 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : I'll grant you that. is you really? Russell
59 Pe@rson : And what, precisely, is wrong with both Oxford and Cambridge? If a graduate can achieve, say, a 1st or a 2:1 from Oxbridge or a red-brick institution
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
"Big Progress" In UK Honours Enquiry posted Thu Nov 16 2006 20:33:36 by Banco
Cessna "Cleared For Takeoff" Kit For Sale (NEW) posted Thu Nov 16 2006 19:36:13 by L-1011Alpha
Kids' Book Bashes "Rich Countries" For Global Temp posted Tue Nov 14 2006 08:11:12 by AerospaceFan
U.S. Sailor Arrested For "Espionage" For Russia posted Wed Aug 9 2006 21:37:30 by AerospaceFan
Time For A "Post Your Wallpaper" Thread! posted Wed Apr 19 2006 09:52:06 by Carmenlu15
UK Users :Agree With The "pay-per-mile" Plan? posted Mon Jun 6 2005 02:22:44 by Mdsh00
UK Latest Idea On "healthy Living" posted Tue Nov 16 2004 16:10:21 by Imonti
Spy Death Due To "radiation Poisoning" posted Sat Nov 25 2006 00:35:22 by Banco
US Navy "Pump-It" posted Fri Nov 24 2006 22:37:28 by AirframeAS
Is "Stupid Indian" Racist Or Not? posted Sat Nov 18 2006 06:01:30 by Don