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British Troops Clobber Iraq Teens On Video  
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

The image/cover...

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/

The story...

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml

I just saw the footage of this on CNN! I thought America Law Enforcement had the market cornered on beating the snot outta people 'while the cameras are rolling'! And I've come believe the British (as of late anyway) were more tolerant and patient when facing civil disobedience. The scenes showing now are reminiscent of the British Troops beating the snot out of protesting Indians of the 1940s. Or Israeli troops brutalizing Palestinian teens (any given minute)... I'm fully aware of what we'd see if Pakistani 'crowd control' or brutality cases were video taped, or those in many 3rd world countries. But isn't there suppose to some divide that seperates us from what a Bolivian Terror Suad would do? Or are we really not all that different?

But this is happening in this day and age is a sign of 'no matter how much progress... we continue to take the 'animal' with us... I give up.


BN747

[Edited 2006-02-13 00:15:15]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Remember the old adadge? INNOCENT unit proven guilty. So they allegedly kicked the snot out of the teens. Until a Military court proves them guilty, im sticking to that.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineKSYR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

What happened to reporting news and not opinion? That was a bad article which in turn makes me not think too highly of the paper.

I'll have to wait to see what other reputable sources say about the incident before jumping to any conclusions.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
Remember the old adadge? INNOCENT unit proven guilty. So they allegedly kicked the snot out of the teens. Until a Military court proves them guilty, im sticking to that.

Whattaya tryin' to do???? Dethrone me as the worse speller on A.net??? It's 'adage' and 'until'

And agree.. until it can be proven the camera did not see what it recorded.. although it was recorded by one of soldiers who thought it would be 'cool'...

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 3):
It's 'adage' and 'until'

well excuse me  sarcastic 

Quoting BN747 (Reply 3):
until it can be proven the camera did not see what it recorded.. although it was recorded by one of soldiers who thought it would be 'cool'...

Same as every court case in the democratic world, Just because it was caught on tape, does not mean the accused will be found guilty.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineLSPA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 190 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

the commentator is just sick. how can you say sh*t like that.


~reach for the sky!
User currently offlineHighpeaklad From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Apparently the footage is about 2 years old. I can understand why these things happen, after all the soldiers have a lot of shit to put up with, but it is still completely unacceptable, and if the tape is not a hoax the soldiers should be court martialled.

However as long as the USA continues to use torture routinely I can see how these soldiers might think its OK for them too.

I know that Condoleeza Rice has specifically banned "torture" by US operatives, but that overlooks the fact that the US defines torture as physical punishment which risks the death of the detainee. This means that techniques such as putting the detainees head under water so they think they will drown is still considered OK . In most other countries, the UK included, torture would be considered to be any form of physical or mental punishment.

Chris



Don't try to keep up with the Joneses - bring them down to your level !
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Quoting Highpeaklad (Reply 6):
I know that Condoleeza Rice has specifically banned "torture" by US operatives

More correctly, they "banned" torture...!  gnasher 


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

While not condoning the event...

First, it occured over 2 years ago....
It was a very different climate in Iraqi at that time....

the commentator is just sick. how can you say sh*t like that.

Easy... he was the one that egged them on to beat up the kids for throwing the rocks at the soldiers...!!

[Edited 2006-02-13 01:12:06]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

They got a bit of a minor beating, so what. What happened to them was alot better than what the Israellis have done in the same situation, they have been known to open fire on the crowd, but thats ok !!.

What they got in that video was a bit of a kicking, thats it. It's all blown out of proportion partly due to the commentry.

That sort of violence happens almost every Friday and Saturday night in towns and cities around the world.

The "BullSh!t of the World" is just out to sell sensationalist rubbish once again. I wouldn't believe 90% of the cr@p they write.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2352 times:
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Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
First, it occured over 2 years ago....

It's irrelevant whether it happened 2 years ago or 2 months ago, this type of thuggish behaviour belongs to the school playground. Not only that, it is likely to damage the good name of the British army around the world, but more importantly amongst Iraqi's, whose country we still occupy.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
It was a very different climate in Iraqi at that time....

And how does this make any difference? A professional soldier has to show restraint in certain situations. These soldiers kicked and beat the living daylights out of a few Iraqi teenagers, let's stop pretending it didn't happen and making excuses. Launch an investigation, identify the culprits and bang them up in prison.

It might be a isolated incident, but it's great propaganda for the suicide bombers and insurgents.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 10):
It might be a isolated incident, but it's great propaganda for the suicide bombers and insurgents

Because rags like the News of the World help make it out to be much worse than what it actually is.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 10):
It might be a isolated incident, but it's great propaganda for the suicide bombers and insurgents.

Not only that, the same kids do return as snipers, suicide bombers and those planting roadside bombs. And soon afterwards, the same crowd who says 'it's no big deal' turn and ask.. why do we bother 'trying to help these people?"


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2329 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
Because rags like the News of the World help make it out to be much worse than what it actually is.

No doubt they do, but we have clear video footage here, which is a good start in any future prosecution.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Wow.. it's amazing they keep this video a secret for TWO years!!! And this from a disgruntled whistle-blower..what did they do to piss him off.. they're NOW realizing whatever it was.. wasn't worth it!

Makes you wonder.. what's out there waiting to surface next?

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

BN747, I must say I am amazed to see you criticizing British troops.

Don't you generally reserve most of your criticism for your own countrymen,your own nation, your own flag ?

 Wow!



gene
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 10):
And how does this make any difference?

Easy big guy... I just stated two facts... period.

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 10):
Launch an investigation, identify the culprits and bang them up in prison



Nice... Automatically guilty... just who has the closed mind here



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 15):
BN747, I must say I am amazed to see you criticizing British troops.

Don't you generally reserve most of your criticism for your own countrymen,your own nation, your own flag ?

Jeez, and I thought only Halls120 (and his Dept. of Justice crew) and DL021 keep an eye on my unpatriotic bitchings.

I guess the disappointment comes on the heels of holding the British (modern Britian anyway... soccer fans excluded of course) in such high regard.. across the board (from BA on down).


The Japanese had better look out... They could be next.

BN747

[Edited 2006-02-13 02:21:33]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

I thought all Armies were the same  Smile
Unless the entire story is known,no point taking sides.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
I thought America Law Enforcement had the market cornered on beating the snot outta people 'while the cameras are rolling'!

Only in California.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
Jeez, and I thought only Halls120 (and his Dept. of Justice crew) and DL021 keep an eye on my unpatriotic bitchings.

Whatsamatter, don't I get any credit.

It's a two year old incident.


Let me see if I get this right.

The civilians started the fight.

The soldiers finished the fight.

Did I miss something?

Helluva source you use as well BN747.

From the article:

The horrifying scenes on these pages will shock the world and ignite a huge military scandal.
Well, where's the shock? Where's the "huge Military Scandal"???  sarcastic 

The whole article reaks of melodramatacism . . . .

I certainly don't condone torture and unjust treatment, but I'm inclined to think if I'm attacked - even by a teenager - especially with a grenade - I'm going to fight back.

Period.

OK - cue the "ANCFlyer is Racist" crap from again.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Well, perhaps this will inspire someone to write an Iraqi national anthem, much like what happened in Iran in 1944 when an American soldier beat the piss out of a grocer.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29690 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
British Troops Clobber Iraq Teens On Video

You know, I have seen a lot of teens that really could use a good clobbering.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5825 posts, RR: 41
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
Because rags like the News of the World help make it out to be much worse than what it actually is.

are you serious? made out to be worse than it is...not sure you could get much worse then something like this!

'His captor releases the headlock, stands him up and—with combat helmet on and visor down—lands a crushing head butt. He rips the youngster's T-shirt over his head and smashes his right fist twice into his kidneys and once into his head.'

especially from those who are supposed to be protecting civilians.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1519 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 22):
'His captor releases the headlock, stands him up and—with combat helmet on and visor down—lands a crushing head butt. He rips the youngster's T-shirt over his head and smashes his right fist twice into his kidneys and once into his head.'

especially from those who are supposed to be protecting civilians.

Be aware that this is a tabloid rag. There is probably much more than what they show. The guys throwing rocks and "probably esplosives" just got their shit handed to em.

Good job Brits....I bet that will be the last time they throw rocks at an army base.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
Helluva source you use as well BN747.

From the article:

The horrifying scenes on these pages will shock the world and ignite a huge military scandal.
Well, where's the shock? Where's the "huge Military Scandal"???   

The whole article reaks of melodramatacism . . . .

I certainly don't condone torture and unjust treatment, but I'm inclined to think if I'm attacked - even by a teenager - especially with a grenade - I'm going to fight back.

Period.

OK - cue the "ANCFlyer is Racist" crap from again.

Whatever...

Come back and chime in after you've seen the CNN Video.. it prompted me to start the post. After searching their site for a link.. to no avail, I caught a 2nd CNN broadcast and it featured the News of the World' cover story. As in TODAY'S cover story.

And to put the 'two years ago' story timeline into context...

The story is NEW, the event is TWO YEARS OLD. Why?

Because of the participants (who felt wronged for whatevevr reason) outted the rest by bring for the video TODAY!

So no one's pulling a ClipperHawaii and drudging up old sh*t for the sake of sensationalism and pumping smoke up keesters.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
25 Klaus : They showed a pretty long segment of the tape in our late evening news. It is quite clear that they were not "fighting" or doing anything harmless. Th
26 BN747 : We didn't see that much here (at least I didn't)... but CNN says theye were teens not men.. who were throw rocks at them (the troops). But the pummel
27 ANCFlyer : """** Chime **""" Saw the CNN video this afternoon . . . way before this nonsensical, tabloid citing thread of yours. Didn't appreciate the fact thes
28 N1120A : Not to mention Louisiana Those 2 are not mutually inclusive
29 Post contains images EA CO AS : Neither are "Muslim" and "Terrorist"...yet they sure seem to go hand-in-hand pretty often, wouldn't you say?
30 N1120A : Only in the media. There are terrorists out there of all persuasions, fortunately they are not the majority in any of them
31 Wrighbrothers : And you're surprised ? They situation out in Iraq is hot (and I'm not talking about the temperature) They have a risk everyday of being killed or blow
32 Klaus : So what could be a valid reason to severely beat an obviously subdued and defenseless person? The men / boys had obviously been subdued already befor
33 Gary2880 : so this happend 2 years ago. 2 years without those thugs being reprimanded for their actions. 2 years without anyone stopping them from doing it again
34 BN747 : It should have NEVER happened. If you replay every OUT OF PROPORTION and UNJUST military on civilian action ever to occur, this is proof enough that
35 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Klaus, read this . . . it should answer your question . . . And read this my friend . . . Utter, complete, total nonsense. Really. Do you honestly be
36 Banco : There's no army in the world immune from occasional outbreaks of behaviour like this. No matter how well trained, no matter how much its unacceptabili
37 Matt27 : I think the US started the fight in the invasion in March 2003. I understand that they are upset, when foreign countries are invading and then tell t
38 ANCFlyer : Geez, let me reprint this AGAIN for those that skim posts:
39 Klaus : I have no problems with that part of your post, but... ...this did in fact raise a few concerns for me. Unfortunately true. And it has very little if
40 Post contains images BMIFlyer : No, you didn't There is none, its all tabloid sensationalism. The NOTW is a shite paper anyway. My View on the situation.... If some guy had thrown a
41 Banco : Indeed. And given the British Army's long experience of peacekeeping and urban warfare, I'm quite sure part of the reaction to this is a feeling (and
42 Post contains images N229NW : But that is just wrong. Time was when miliatary conquest always involved a completely free reign given to soldiers to murder all the men, gang-rape a
43 Itsjustme : Oh c'mon ANC...you mean to tell me you've never gotten a little heavy handed with an Elk or a Bison that has given you a hard time? I see the usual M
44 Post contains images ANCFlyer : My point here Klaus isl, as I'm sure you know, I suspect BN747 - and likely a few others - would have preferred we let the hand grenade, bottle thorw
45 Post contains links Flyingbronco05 : The video: http://www.break.com/index/britishiraq12.html
46 Post contains links Banco : The RMP have arrested someone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4708866.stm
47 ANCFlyer : From the article: "He called for Iraqis to take part in the investigation, adding that any soldiers found to be responsible "must compensate those vic
48 Gary2880 : guess it would depend if they hurt any of the trained soldiers wearing helmets and bullet proof vests in the same way the aforementioned people hurt
49 FLVILLA : I have also seen the video and think it is a terrible thing that those soldiers did no matter what but at the moment we don't know the full story so I
50 GDB : While they did go over the top, who has seen the earlier part of the video? (NOT released buy NoW). That riot itself, apparently not just stones, but
51 BN747 : If indeed this is indeed factual, and IEDs were used then this changes the stage dramatically... if the troops are being threatened with deadly force
52 Itsjustme : None taken my friend. I can't begin to imagine the anger, fear, and relief (when they weren't killed by the tossed grenades) those soldiers must have
53 ANCFlyer : Read the article in your link BN747 - it specifically says HAND GRENADES in there. I saw it, BMIFlyer saw it, apparently GDB saw it . . . I suppose t
54 BN747 : My Reply #51 owned up to and addresses all this. If you clearly feel the need to stick your 'finger in my eye' because said explanation is not good e
55 Post contains images Clipperhawaii : These troops caught these enemy combatants(that's what they are of course) in a war zone and they got just a little pummeled. Poor them. Of course, un
56 MDorBust : This whole situation could have easily been avoided had the soldiers followed thier proper training and just shot the enemy combatants. I know I was c
57 Post contains images ANCFlyer : This first - you've no idea what kind of person I am . . . but if you are ever in Anchorage, I'll buy the beer and the dinner and we can discuss it.
58 Post contains images Leezyjet : Just wondered what the reaction would be if the situation was reversed, and the "hundreds of screaming demonstrators armed with stones, sticks, shovel
59 Klaus : It is outright lazy to simply assume that the persons who were beaten had actually been the worst rioters. It is a sad fact that when beatings occur,
60 ANCFlyer : While you have a point Klaus let me point out that in the article is does mention the Subject in Black top, Blue Bottoms. It is my assertion that he w
61 Itsjustme : No more misplaced than your apparent "quick indictment" of the soldiers. Or is it your opinion they are guilty until proven innocent?
62 Klaus : Even if they should all have been "guilty", such abuse is never appropriate.
63 Itsjustme : Agreed.
64 ME AVN FAN : no reason do think highly of that paper. "News-of-the-World" is for sure one of the top-scandal-monger-boulevard-papers on the European continent. It
65 ME AVN FAN : - And, if something thelike occurs again, you will excuse it by stating that the "climate" had become different again ? a "minor beating" ? it was pr
66 GDB : The earlier footage, of some of the riot, was shown on BBC News. MDofBust, sorry, but you are wrong on this. Firstly, live rounds WERE used, in firefi
67 MDorBust : Never underestimate the ability or effect of a well trained sniper. I never said to hose the crowd.
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