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Teenager Dies In Florida Boot Camp  
User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Here's the link,

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/17/bootcamp.death/index.html

The story does not say why he ended up there but maybe someone should explain to the mother that if she had been doing her job maybe he wouldn't have ended up there. It's a shame he passed away but blasting away at the State for taking care of your problem doesn't seem to be the solution. If he truely was "her baby", she should have taken better care in raising him.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

Was this not on an episode of CSI?

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

I guess Momma should have cared more for her Baby when he was a Baby instead of worrying about it now. But of course, it's never the parent's fault is it . . . and the kids in cases like this are always "good kids".

User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

Yeah! As a shitty mother, she has no right to be upset that her teenager was killed by the oficials into whose custody he was remanded, for some reason!

Instead, She should take from this little "oopsie" a lesson in good parenting, so that when she has the next one (they're always having babies, you know), she can be a better mother and prevent her fourteen-year-old, who like most teenagers probably hasn't developed the best judgement in the world, won't do whatever it is that he did to earn the death sentence of the last one.

Mrs. Anderson, I hope you've learned your lesson.



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 3):
Yeah! As a shitty mother, she has no right to be upset that her teenager was killed by the oficials into whose custody he was remanded, for some reason!

Well, Mark, not one for subtlety early in the morning 'eh.

I don't hear anyone saying she shouldn't be upset. She has no right to blame the state however. . . if she'd done her gawddamn job in the first place this thread would be moot.

Your attempt at racism and muddragging is inane at best. Unwarranted.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2009 times:
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I particularly found interesting the part where the state senator decided that his judgement was better than the coroners. We've dealt with this issue before....where politicians think they are smarter than doctors.

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 3):
Yeah! As a shitty mother, she has no right to be upset that her teenager was killed by the oficials into whose custody he was remanded, for some reason!

Instead, She should take from this little "oopsie" a lesson in good parenting, so that when she has the next one (they're always having babies, you know), she can be a better mother and prevent her fourteen-year-old, who like most teenagers probably hasn't developed the best judgement in the world, won't do whatever it is that he did to earn the death sentence of the last one.

Mrs. Anderson, I hope you've learned your lesson.

Y'know.....on the one hand I certainly see her angst. She lost her son permanently. She can't pretend this is not a problem, like she could when he was alive and committing crimes. This is a tragedy, and the state should investigate the situation to determine what exactly caused the death, and find out if it was avoidable. Any negligence on the part of the state, or it's employees, should be punished.

I don't think that the mother needs to get any money from the state whatsoever. I don't know why her son was in the boot camp (although I do know that boot camps are alternatives to big boy prison where the teens sentenced as adults face much worse) but I do know that she's up crying foul now, and I wonder whether she did so to him when he committed the crime, or more importantly before he did so.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 3):

Amen to that. It's sickening how people race to blame no one but the mother. Sure no one is a saint, but this is nonsense.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
if she'd done her gawddamn job in the first place this thread would be moot.

The blame is never on one single person. Can parents really prevent their children from having contact to "bad people" 24/7? Answer is a big fat NO. There are many factors that determine a child's future, parenting is far from the only one.

Besides, if the mother is to be blamed for her son's death in a state-run boot camp, mustn't we blame parents of impoverished teenagers who join the arned forces for those deaths? After all, if the "parents hadn't been lazy {insert insult of choice here}, they wouldn't have had to join the Army".

Running a boot camp is about a lot of responsibility. If police officers aren't trained properly to recognise dangerous situations like this one, part of the blame is on them and most of all on the system.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

For all we know, the kid could have been in there for stealing a candy bar. It's a little premature to call out mom because her fourteen-year-old did something stupid. Ever do anything dumb as a teen? I did. And my excellent parents, who really did care deeply about my future, never even knew about my exploits.

Their true parental skill showed in the long-term development of my judgement (which should be happening any day now), not supervising me 24/7 to make sure I never go into trouble.

And we're not even talking about the fact that her son was murdered. You guys are practically sanctioning it, because you have a whole preconception in your head about what this kid was, and how his mother is.

I doubt this kid was in Camp for a candy bar, but whatever he did, the proper authorities put him there instead of juvie because they thought the kid could be saved. Instead, he wound up on death row, and peoples' back-door condemnation and Jerry Springer moralizing to the mother is pointless and mean-spirited.



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 7):
the kid could have been in there for stealing a candy bar.

Trust me when I tell you Candy Bar thieves are not the types going to Boot Camp, not here in Alaska, not in Arizona and not in Florida . . . .

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
The blame is never on one single person. Can parents really prevent their children from having contact to "bad people" 24/7? Answer is a big fat NO. There are many factors that determine a child's future, parenting is far from the only one.

Of course one will run in to all sorts of "bad people". I certainly did . . . but because of my Mother and her rather strict requirements, I didn't choose that path. Any successes I had in that endeavor are directly attributable to her (not my Father - he was gone by the time I hit 10 years old). So, while every child has options - the direct influence on them by their parent(s) is the primary factor in which path they decide to take in life . . . and it starts with the smack on the ass right out of the womb. . . .

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
And we're not even talking about the fact that her son was murdered. You guys are practically sanctioning it, because you have a whole preconception in your head about what this kid was, and how his mother is.

EDIT: This blasted A-Net quoted Aloges here, it should be LHMark . . .

He wasn't murdered . . . did you not read the Coroner's remarks? I wouldn't sanction murder. I do sanction the actions of the corrections officers. My preconception of this kid - plain and simple - he was in Boot Camp for fuckin' something up - he most certainly wasn't there as a part of a Baptist Church tour - and Boot camps are usually reserved for those kids the parents, officers, courts and state think have a shot at being "saved". So while he obviously had some problems, he wasn't a lost cause.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
Running a boot camp is about a lot of responsibility. If police officers aren't trained properly to recognise dangerous situations like this one, part of the blame is on them and most of all on the system.

I don't know how you expect the officers to be able to diagnose a heretofore unknown medical condition? 'Splain that one to me? Hell, I can't do it and run in to all sorts of riff raff . . .

[Edited 2006-02-18 16:31:53]

User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

I missed the coroner's remarks before. Sorry about that part.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Hell, I can't do it and run in to all sorts of riff raff . . .

They should've recognised this total stranger was, as the article says, "slipping in and out of consciousness". That's certainly a reason for calling an ambulance, as opposed to standing around and trying to lift him back on his feet.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 10):
They should've recognised this total stranger was, as the article says, "slipping in and out of consciousness". That's certainly a reason for calling an ambulance, as opposed to standing around and trying to lift him back on his feet.

Guess we'll have to see how long it took between the time they figured out he was out of it and in fact called for medical assistance.

That said: A lot of these kids . . . and pinhead Army trainees now that I think about it . . . feine injury, etc . . . there are many scenarios available as to how soon things happened when they realized he was in trouble.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Where in the hell does it say that the mother did a lousy job as a parent? Some kids are just trouble-makers, and no matter what you do, you can't change them. How the hell do any of you know what went on in that family? You're the same ones telling other people not to rush to judgement against politicians, etc.

Where's your damn answer to that?


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 12):
Where in the hell does it say that the mother did a lousy job as a parent? Some kids are just trouble-makers

You're right . . .it doesn't say Mom was useless and the kids was just an asshole.

In my experience however - I find that every time, and I mean every time, it's a parental problem . . . whether or not the kids was a reincarnation of Satan is beside the point.

Example: Most parents with kids that are incorrigible that I've dealt with are the same ones that demand the state remand the little bastard to custody and send them to some place like this boot camp . . . that's a good parent making the hard call . . .

Furthermore, when the opposite is true and the parent(s) are losers, the kids are sent away regardless, it is the parent that instantly blames everyone else except themselves for the kids problems.

Example: The 13 year old girl that went out her bedroom window and was raped and murdered by a 15 year old - at 2 am. First thing out of her Mom's mouth: She was a good kid. . . . No she wasn't or she wouldn't ahve been shimmying down the downspout at 2am. Then it was the police that got blame for not finding her quickly enough. Bullshit.

So, while there is nothing in writing in this article, and I'm sure the Mother loved her son, and I am sorry for her loss, my experience dictates she didn't do her job.


User currently offlineTPAnx From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

IIRC, the kid was in boot camp for violating his probation for taking his
grandmother's Jeep. Nine officers were involved in "restraining" him, including one who's seen on video hitting him while he lay motionless on the ground.
He's the third Afro-American to die in a Florida boot camp. (Don't know the cause of the other's deaths.) This is a major story in Florida. The state and
U-S Justice departments are investigating,so we haven't heard the last of it.
TPAnx



I read the news today..oh boy
User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):

You know, Pep, you're probably correct. However, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a woman who has just lost her son. The facts will come out, and I'll reserve final judgement until then.

My opinion so far is that the boy probably died as a result of the sickle cell trait. However, it sounds as if the boot camp officers were narrow-minded in their perception and just looked at the symptoms as "just another uncooperative juvenile delinquent. We'll show him how to behave." Now that's an assumption on my part, but I'll bet it doesn't sound too off-base, does it?

Perhaps the officers should be a bit more attuned to health problems and medical conditions and their symptoms instead of just treating these kids as pieces of shit.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
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According to new reports here in Ohio they said he died of internal bleeding not related to being beaten! Well I am sure it did not help....


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 15):
We'll show him how to behave." Now that's an assumption on my part, but I'll bet it doesn't sound too off-base, does it?

No it doesn't.


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 7):
And we're not even talking about the fact that her son was murdered.

If he was murdered then according to the coroner he was a walking dead man the day he was concieved.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 10):
They should've recognised this total stranger was, as the article says, "slipping in and out of consciousness". That's certainly a reason for calling an ambulance, as opposed to standing around and trying to lift him back on his feet.

Yep, nobody in that situation has ever faked an injury, or suddenly found God on death row, or been totally innocent of all charges on a life sentence.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 12):
Where's your damn answer to that?

It's in what's not being said. You don't hear this mother saying I tried everything I could but he just wouldn't listen. Nope, first thing she does is get a lawyer and blame the state. It says in the story that he had breathing problems during previous basketball practices yet she never felt it was necessary to take him to the doctor and have that diagnosed. If she had done that much they would have been able to diagnose him as sickle cell.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 18):
Yep, nobody in that situation has ever faked an injury, or suddenly found God on death row, or been totally innocent of all charges on a life sentence.

 redflag  There are tests to determine whether or not an individual is unconscious, such as the sternum rub. If you get no response to any of these rather painful hence reliable tests, provided of course you know you have to perform them, you have a pretty good indication your patient is in trouble.

Why do you automatically assume the victim (hint: the 14yo) would fake unconsciousness? Is it because you think anyone who gets sent to a boot camp is "worthless"? Even though someone with the authority thinks he might end up on the "right way" in his future life?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

Paging Dr. Martin.

Paging Dr. Martin.


User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Is it just me or does the boy's mum look like a black version of vicky pollard?
Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1867 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 19):
If you get no response to any of these rather painful hence reliable tests, provided of course you know you have to perform them, you have a pretty good indication your patient is in trouble.

From the CNN report:

A woman in a white coat, who appears to be a nurse, looks on for a few minutes before walking away. The boy falls to the ground and the officers try, without success, to pull him up by his arms.

Later, Anderson is shown on the ground as the officers stand around him. It is not clear from the video what they are doing.

As they stand back, the boy is lying on the ground, limp. Staffers pull him up by his arms and try to get him to walk. Repeatedly, he takes a small step, then falls to his knees. His movements indicate he may be lapsing in and out of consciousness.

The boy finally collapses to the ground and the woman with the white coat appears to use a stethoscope before performing CPR as other officers look on or walk back and forth.


Sounds like the nurse was at least initially satisfied that the boy was fine.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 19):
Why do you automatically assume the victim (hint: the 14yo) would fake unconsciousness? Is it because you think anyone who gets sent to a boot camp is "worthless"?

Quite the opposite. Most of those in the prison system possess enourmous intelligence. Most of it is street wise or common sense. That is why I say that he would not have been the first one to try and fake his way out of physical exertion.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 22):
Sounds like the nurse was at least initially satisfied that the boy was fine.

In any case, the right thing to do with someone (very) near to a syncope is to let him/her rest and put the legs up, unless it's a heart attack. Pulling him up and trying to make him walk is not a good idea when you're dealing with a total stranger.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 22):
That is why I say that he would not have been the first one to try and fake his way out of physical exertion.

Nevertheless, there's little the officials involved can know on the first day. So the benefit of the doubt has to be given to the boy. If anyone's authority suffers from being humane and a little indulgent on the first day, then he should check if he's in the right field of work.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 23):
So the benefit of the doubt has to be given to the boy

If I was in the boys position I would not want any special treatment shown me. That would look real good in front of the other campers who probably got treated to the same excersise on the first day. Any special treatment would instantly be recognized by the others and might be misinterpeted to that person detrement. It's a catch 22 situation.


25 Post contains images Aloges : Would you really care if you were laying unconscious on the ground? I'd much rather be "uncool" for some time than be dead forever.
26 Gilligan : Once I was unconsious you're right, I could care less what they do. Prior to that I would. Obviously by the time he went fully unconcious it was too
27 LHMARK : Turns out the kid was in Boot for joyriding his grandmother's jeep. The bad parents and grandparents pressed charges to teach their son a lesson about
28 Gilligan : Correct. Perhaps you weren't quite the bad boy that this one was. There is no mention as to any previous criminal history but for his parents and gra
29 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Logan, as I said . . . I'm not trying to say I told you, because you're a wiser man than I, but just pointing out . . . I told you so. Perhaps, Mark,
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