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Question For US A.Netters Regarding The US Flag  
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3600 posts, RR: 29
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Patriotism is found in every country, and every country has a different way of showing it, of course.

What interests me is, why is the US patriotism focused so much on the flag? The flag is a national symbol everywhere, but with the possible exemption of Denmark I know no country where the flag is such an important sybol as it is in the USA.

Is there a special reason for the focus on the flag as THE national symbol? I know that the anthem and other symbols are important, as well, but I have the impression the flag is the most important symbol in the USA, and I wonder why this is so.

[Edited 2006-02-19 01:40:42]

230 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

It's a consistent symbol of the United States which, unlike most countries, hasn't changed in the last 300 years. (With the exception of adding stars for more states)

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

It is a symbol of something I gave a life defending and protecting . . . it is a symbol of hope, freedom, independence . . . a symbol of a powerful nation settled by a few and grown to millions. . . it is a symbol of all things American's hold dear and close . . . and when it's flown oversaeas it's a beacon for everyone . . . it's a sumbol of strength, of unity, of diversity, of uncomprising will . . .

It is a symbol that I hold dear . . . it's not merely a piece of colored cloth as some will say . . . it's not just rag . . .it identifies, almost instantly, to anyone, that the US is present and willing and able.

I dare say, other than thehome country flag of one's own nation, it is the most readily recognized national ensign on the planet . . .




It means a hell of a lot to me . . . as I've given what it represents, a hell of a lot . . .


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
It is a symbol of something I gave a life defending and protecting . . . it is a symbol of hope, freedom, independence . . . a symbol of a powerful nation settled by a few and grown to millions. . . it is a symbol of all things American's hold dear and close . . . and when it's flown oversaeas it's a beacon for everyone . . . it's a sumbol of strength, of unity, of diversity, of uncomprising will . . .

It is a symbol that I hold dear . . . it's not merely a piece of colored cloth as some will say . . . it's not just rag . . .it identifies, almost instantly, to anyone, that the US is present and willing and able.

I dare say, other than thehome country flag of one's own nation, it is the most readily recognized national ensign on the planet . . .




It means a hell of a lot to me . . . as I've given what it represents, a hell of a lot . . .

Well said ANC!


'nuff said.

Justin



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Because of the orgins of our country and our flag, it really has become a very beloved symbol yet it is very difficult to describe why we display such affection toward it. It is probably a matter of it being a symbol of our faith in our country. We were one of the first countries to become independent from a colonial power and from one of the most powerful at the time - the UK. The basic design goes back to our beginning as a country, and later defined in the early 1800's to todays form. The colors are from the UK flag, the stripes for the original 13 colonies/states, the stars for all of the states. We were also one of the first countries to define a separation of Church and state, without an official state religion.
I would note that there are laws as to the proper protocol of it's display and use although it isn't illegal (yet) to burn the flag as a form of protest (*although it may get you trashed by some other Americans). In some countries, burning a flag as a form of protest is illegal.
There are plenty of websites that with a search can give you the history and meaning of the USA flag and it's design.


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4677 times:

Probably because the flag didn't evolve as a national symbol, but was created in the heat of the struggle for independence. It gave it a special significance that stirs American hearts to this day. Our rulers changed on a regular basis, so the flag is the constant.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4664 times:

I think Henry Ward Beecher said it best.

"Our Flag carries American ideas, American history and American feelings. Beginning with the Colonies, and coming down to our time, in its sacred heraldry, in its glorious insignia, it has gathered and stored chiefly this supreme idea: divine right of liberty in man. Every color means liberty; every thread means liberty; every form of star and beam or stripe of light means liberty - not lawlessness, but organized, institutional liberty - liberty through law, and laws for liberty!"


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

The first true American flag was flown on Prospect Hill in the city of Somerville, MA on January 1, 1776. This marked the organization of the first militia.



Proud to live in Somerville, MA.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4651 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
It means a hell of a lot to me . . . as I've given what it represents, a hell of a lot . . .

Couldn't agree more.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4627 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It's all been said here, but let me add a personal thought....

my flag is the symbol of the greatest democracy in history, which has endured trial and tribulation of the worst kind, and still stands for freedom and liberty...the very fact that one is free to burn it or deface it stands as proof that the freedoms for which it stands are stronger here than anywhere else...

In my opinion the flag is a great uniting symbol that allows us to focus our feelings about our country and it's values and mores on one identifying object.....and to tread on the flag is to tread on that for which it stands.




Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4616 times:

It can also be a symbol of blind patriotism, in a 'love or leave it' kind of way.



I wonder if any other country loves itself as much as we do.



Shouldn't it be God BLESSED America? I mean, we're already at the top of the food chain and we somehow deserve even more blessing on top of that?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4603 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SATX (Reply 10):
It can also be a symbol of blind patriotism, in a 'love or leave it' kind of way.

It's more of a request, Translation: "descrate yourself if you feel the need to burn our national ensign".

Quoting SATX (Reply 10):
I wonder if any other country loves itself as much as we do.

It's not about "loving" ourselves, it's about respecting the gifts given to us by the forefathers of this great nation, a legacy of which you seem to take for granted.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3195 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
I would note that there are laws as to the proper protocol of it's display and use although it isn't illegal (yet) to burn the flag as a form of protest (*although it may get you trashed by some other Americans).

In fact, the preferred method of destruction of an American flag that is no longer suitable for display is by burning:

Quote:
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a
fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way,
preferably by burning.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...bname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+4USC8


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
It is a symbol of something I gave a life defending and protecting

You're dead?

Quoting SATX (Reply 10):
Shouldn't it be God BLESSED America?

I think the commonly accepted phrase is now "God bless America, and only America".



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
It's not about "loving" ourselves, it's about respecting the gifts given to us by the forefathers of this great nation, a legacy of which you seem to take for granted.

Better than taking this for granted...




Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlinePbottenb From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

For me it started in first grade when we all said the Pledge of Allegiance together "I pledge of allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America....."

Also, While I think that in my lifetime the US has been pretty patriotic, the attacks 9/11 and all that followed really brought out ALOT of flags on cars, homes, you name it...

It really pisses me off when I see people burning our flag. Many are the same ones who are so upset over the cartoons recently.....these aholes dont mind trampling something that is sacred to us, but when it is something that they care about then all bets are off...


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 13):
You're dead?

Not yet brother - better luck next time!



User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Its the same out here.Although it'll take time to reach those heights as the Ban of public display except twice a year by citizens has just been lifted.
Check out the Stadiums & Vehicles in India.The Indian Flag is around too.
The National Flag installs a sense of pride.Amazing.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4306 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

As long as is a uniting force for good, who cares who holds what in high value. People who desecrate other people's symbols and the like are just losers.


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

To me its more than cloth, it represents our country in a way thats hard to define, It shows how we changed over the years(adding stars) but we dont forget how we became a country(the stripes). who knows how many stars will be on it in 100 years but there will always be 13 stripes.

When I see the flag being burned here at home I see it as freedom of speach being expressed(as they say, I may not agree with what you are saying but I will defend your right to say it), and when it is done elsewhere I know someone somewhere is scared of what it stands for, why else would they burn it.

Also its the BEST flag around.

just a little fact, The U.S. Navy never dips the ensign(flag) first when passing a naval ship from another country (dipping the ensign is a show of respect).Shows the power and might of the U.S. Navy.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
People who desecrate other people's symbols and the like are just losers.

I agree completely. First thing I've seen you say in two weeks that makes any sense.

I would consider it an serious affront to other countries to disrespect or desecrate their national flag, as much as I consider it an disrespectful for them to desecrate the US Flag.

Respect in this vein is round trip.


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4306 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

There are many things you probably misunderstand about me, ANC, particularly considering I was 'quasi-flaming' quite radical positions in one particular thread you consistently harp back to, against me.

I have been here six years, and I'm not known for extremist views whatsoever. There was a reason I had to be so controversial recently, even if I actually don't advocate in reality or even believe in what I was saying.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
As long as [it] is a uniting force for good, who cares who holds what in high value.

I too was a big supporter until I realized that its influence can be used to rally the masses for both good and bad.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
People who desecrate other people's symbols and the like are just losers.

Just as with people who hide behind such symbols.

Stick a flag on your vehicle. It's literally the least you can do.




Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4529 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 21):
There are many things you probably misunderstand about me, ANC, particularly considering I was 'quasi-flaming' quite radical positions in one particular thread you consistently harp back to, against me.

I have been here six years, and I'm not known for extremist views whatsoever. There was a reason I had to be so controversial recently, even if I actually don't advocate in reality or even believe in what I was saying.

No worries . . . the conversation was worthwhile . . . you have your opinion, I have mine - hell we both might be all washed up . . .

Quoting SATX (Reply 22):
Stick a flag on your vehicle. It's literally the least you can do.

Is this your Sunday Go To Meeting truck . . . looks about right.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

What type of idiot owns a pickup truck and a Dennis Kucinich bumper sticker?

Seems to be a very confused soul.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 ANCFlyer : And it's a DODGE pickup no less . . . that should explain the bumper stickers and the bullshit on the tailgate.
26 Seanp11 : I've burned a flag............... The only respectful way to dispose of a flag that has reached the end of it's life (has become tattered) is to burn
27 Pacificjourney : ... are you dead ? Being a bit dramatic aren't you ? There's that word 'give' again. I think you need to check the definition as you did get paid rig
28 ANCFlyer : Apparently you didn't read the entire thread, as you'd have seen this question already asked . . . . and answered . . . No worries though, I suspect
29 L-188 : [ Your Dodge needs a batch, Pacificflyer
30 Sprout5199 : You will NEVER understand what he means. reminds me of when I joined the Navy, alot of my friends asked why, all I could say was if you have to ask,
31 Pacificjourney : You guys GAVE nothing, you rented yourselves out and now want to be made saints for it. Get a real job and actually create something then I'll be impr
32 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Here we go, same old nonsense, same old bullshit . . . Don't you ever get tired of this??? You seem smarter, but then . . .well, every time you post,
33 Pacificjourney : Not really sure what it is you want me to do, repeat once more to your face that you talk a lot of shit ? Then what ? LA is along way to come for me
34 ANCFlyer : Then we go have a beer or a drink - on your tax $$4, thought I made that pretty clear. Excellent Deal. First link up, Flamingo Hotel, O'Shea's, 3/24/
35 AeroWesty : A lot of good answers here, but which other national anthem focusses so much on the flag other than ours? I think that has a lot to do with it. The a
36 Cairo : Far and away most Americans have done nothing special except be born into a comfortable life and work for a living and support their family...just li
37 Post contains images Nosedive : 5 seconds to lockdown! Ok, here's the long short of my opinion of why the flag is such a strong symbol here. It came at a time when we fuckin' needed
38 ManuCH : I think the US Flag is so important for Americans because of how history and national pride is taught in primary school. I've had the privilege to sit
39 Gunsontheroof : I consider myself a global citizen, and therefore, I won't salute the flag of any nation. That doesn't mean I'm going to go around burning them or tha
40 QANTASFOREVER : I find the American flag to be quite appealing. It's a potent symbol - so the patriotism associated with it is understandable. In Australia's case - I
41 Highpeaklad : Does any other country have something similar? When I first saw that on the tv years ago I thought it must be from some communist country ! When I we
42 Doona : There's nothing wrong with having a strong national symbol. As Nosedive mentioned in post 37, the flag was used to rally the people, and in a way, sti
43 Post contains images Gkirk : I think the US flag is the 3rd best in the world After the Saltire and the Lion Rampant of course
44 Post contains images Doona : That's a very spectacular flag, Kirkie. Are you sure you prefer sheep before men? Cheers Mats
45 QANTASforever : I just like the quote that if we aren't to allow people to burn the flag, then why should we allow people to drape themselves in it? QFF
46 TheSonntag : Thank you all for your insights! I didn't expect so many replies. In fact, there are a lot of similarities between the US flag and the Danish flag. I
47 Gkirk : Here in Scotland, we are very patriotic about the Saltire and Lion Rampant. Although I've never been to the US or Denmark, I would be surprised if th
48 Post contains images Gary2880 : i don't believe in god but i also believe that see, i think there's something quite novel about the american flag, coming at the game so late you wer
49 Gary2880 : dont be daft, you would like to think that but its hardly true ''scots will do anything for scotland, except live there'' why do you think we only ha
50 ME AVN FAN : Why not "God save America" ? it might be dangerous. Due to many pupils falling off their seats for laughing !
51 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : I second that! You have a right to your opinion ... True! Whatever ? I don't see anyone hiding. Please explain Thank You! I've had conversations with
52 Post contains links and images Pelican : Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 46): Inrnfact,rnthere are a lot of similarities between the US flag and thernDanishrnflag. I once saw on Danish television t
53 ANCFlyer : No, as I have said here before - but the Stars and Stripes in front of me and you better be prepared to defend yourself . . . period. It's an insult,
54 AirCop : Quoting the Sergeant Major ...This is Bullshit.. Americans work as a TEAM..Americans work for a living and support their family and suddenly because
55 Post contains images Klaus : The USA as a community is more based on ideology than on tribal affiliation or locality as the older nations are, so the flag plays a larger role in s
56 Post contains images Klaus : Good example of self-congratulatory half-truths. In reality those and many other achievements (including the moon landing) had many more and deeper r
57 Post contains links Falcon84 : This flag survived a 25-hour British naval bombardment in Baltimore, in September 1814, a battle fought after Washington D.C. was left in ruins; a bat
58 Dougloid : That's something of an oversimplification. We're as balkanized and angry at each other as the rest of you and proud of it. I would say, rather, that
59 FlyPIJets : The United States doesn't have a history of a monarch or dictator to serve as a symbol or embodiment of our country. For many, the U.S. flag has evolv
60 Klaus : That's not a contradiction at all. Many nations have diverse regional cultures, in many cases much more diverse than the ones in the USA.
61 Gary2880 : so? makes them any less of a person? no. people that have been in the military are any better than anyone else doing their job and following the boss
62 Klaus : And the first viable jet aircraft by the germans. Many inventions have had an international history.
63 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Gary - you obviously missed the point entirely. I don't disparage what someone else has done to contribute to their lives, or this society. But how da
64 Post contains images Slider : What ANC said at the top. Very true- unlike many other nations who sat down and contrived one, ours was battle born and has a major significance from
65 Post contains images Gary2880 : i too feel i went off on a tangent, i get irked at people who hold themselfs on the same regard as people like my grandfather who was a normal person
66 ANCFlyer : Not directed specifically at you my friend . . . just in general . . . no personal affront intended. Someone asked that a while back . . . and I have
67 Gary2880 : i thought it was first so that the soldier could look down at his arm and see it properly, but then it would have to be upside down. read somewhere t
68 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : I find the "flag-cult" of the USA rather overdone, and rather a problem how "touched/kicked" US-Americans feel when an idiot somewhere out in the worl
69 Post contains images Jacobin777 : back in 1989/1990, there was a Chicago Art Institute exhibition which had the United States flag on the ground with many people stomping over it....i
70 ANCFlyer : Well, I find the burning of buildings and killing of people because of some cartoon rather overdone as well . . . guess that makes us even, eh?
71 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Bullshit... Username: pacificjourney Real Name: Withheld Taken FROM your bloody profile. How does your foot taste? B4e-Forever New Frontiers
72 Gary2880 : not just your problem dont worry, when pokeymon was about more kids knew 150 little monsters names rather than 5 countrys and their capital citys.
73 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : the flag-cult of the USA is somewhat overdone, the burning of buildings and flags is HEAVILY overdone, so that it admittedly is a score in your favou
74 Falcon84 : The one's you refer to fought and died so that I didn't have to bow to a king; or to put up with those who hold slave; or so that the world wouldn't
75 Klaus : That is simply one of the central pieces of the US ideology.
76 Post contains images SATX : 100% No kidding. It wasn't before, but now it's starting to look a little strange to me too. 100% Damn! Cheney has repeated attacked those who disagr
77 Cairo : Some people believe being in the military, seeing things in black and white, taking and giving orders, having a close association with weapons and vi
78 Arrow : I find US patriotism quite inspiring at times, and I wish we had a little more of that sentiment here. But, Aircop, the tone of your post here is wha
79 Post contains images SATX : 100% Tell it like it is, brother!
80 Post contains images A319114 : This is quite an interesting statement from someone who condemned the violent reaction of the Muslim world to the Danish cartoons. What the American
81 Falcon84 : Then explain a liberal like me who respects the flag, and sees it as a national symol of pride and patriotism? I don't like the right wing government
82 ANCFlyer : Pssst . . . bullshit. I'll tell you what, before I reply to your nonsense you go back - re-read this thread and pay some close attention to what I to
83 Post contains images Gary2880 : dont think ive had a tick on a.net before yes, the your either with us or against us bullshat. there was much a similar thing where football hooligan
84 Pbottenb : For me, when I hear the Star Spangled Banner played it totally gives me the chills, especially when the entire crowd sings along and at the end we si
85 Post contains images DL021 : Unless you just changed it, it's not on your profile. So....what else do you vehemently claim as fact that is not actually true? Just show up and dis
86 Post contains images ANCFlyer : It's never been in his profile . . . one of the first things I do is check a profile before I respond to anyone . . . Wouldn't bet the farm on that j
87 SATX : Gee, I wonder why. Oh wait, is it because you look for as much ammunition as possible before you start one of your hypocritical diatribes? I'm still
88 Alfa75 : It was interesting to see people putting flags on their cars after 9/11 and letting them get all torn up and faded. It showed a lot of respect for a s
89 Post contains links Dougloid : (This is a little off topic but so be it.) True. My own opinion on this phenomenon is that the great technical developments of the age evolve to a ce
90 Cairo : Don't you agree that politicians use the flag and related patriotism to promote all manner of policies which may in fact HURT America? You can separa
91 Alfa75 : You've got that right!!!
92 Halls120 : Damn.....you beat me to it! Excellent post, Falcon! I'd say it was the central piece. After all, we'd likely still be members of the British Commonwe
93 Cairo : That is all I'm saying - that flag waiving is taken too far sometimes, especially since January 20, 2001, and that we should examine why exactly we'r
94 AsstChiefMark : A German visitor once commented to me about the number of American flags flying in front of private homes. She couldn't figure out why so many people
95 Nancy : I care a lot more about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights than I do the flag. I always find it interesting how some people defend the symbol and
96 Post contains images SATX : 100% Strait up! You know, I was thinking about putting those up in my cube when all my coworkers were putting up flags and "W" stickers. Hmm. Maybe I
97 Alfa75 : Amen!!
98 Post contains images Jacobin777 : yup...degradation of todays society. yup....... "That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it
99 Post contains images Klaus : Complacency 101...! It isn't that simple, especially when you're looking at the effects outside the US borders! Militarism is not automatically ident
100 Dougloid : As a practical exercise, by the time the 262 was rolling out in significant numbers Germany was out of fuel oil to run the things and there weren't m
101 ANCFlyer : Just noting that once again PJ has posted bullshit . . . that's all . . . pay attention here, you'd have known that already . . . Same place it's alw
102 Klaus : That's not the point here - the design and construction was a first, which is the only point relevant to the discussion above.[Edited 2006-02-20 03:1
103 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : Christ Almighty! Can't we all just get along?! Enough Already! Russell
104 Alaska737 : wow that is amazing if you made it up or heard it somewhere either way bravo. the flag is beautiful but it is not my favorite US symbol, that would h
105 DL021 : Klaus...the Italians and the British had a working jet engine, viable in every sense, prior to the Germans...the Italians did not have the resources
106 Falcon84 : No, I do not. But anything can be used for good or ill, and the flag is no difference. If it's used to promote our struggle for freedom, then it is n
107 767Lover : No offense, The Sonntag, but this thread is another (poorly) veiled attempt to slam the U.S. and Americans in general. What the hell do you think a fl
108 Post contains images 11Bravo : That's the danger of nationalism. The pride and confidence that are the very foundations of nationalism are a great thing for a society to a point, b
109 Post contains links Halls120 : While Klaus is usually on point, this is not one of the times. If the military had been in charge in 1991, we would have taken Baghdad. If the milita
110 L-188 : Wasn't that the Air Force manual George C. Scott had in front of him in the warroom in "Dr. Strangelove"
111 SATX : Hey, if pretending that I simply didn't pay attention is what lets you sleep at night, so be it. Balls is what you use when attacking somebody else f
112 ANCFlyer : It's NOT okay to attack a Muslim religious symbol. Never has been. Never said it was. Where'd you come up with that bullshit . . . just pulling crap
113 Solarix : Wow this thread has really went to the toilet.
114 Post contains images Sprout5199 : I assume that your talking about on the right arm? that is on the Army uniform, and there is one on the left side also. they put it that way to make
115 Pacificjourney : Fuck ! Wasn't me that changed it but now changed back. How about the other mouths do the same ? Same job for me different Navy, what do you want, a m
116 SATX : Ahh, so if I follow you correctly then those who were offended should have gone after these specific individuals who created and published the images
117 Post contains images Klaus : And yet neither of them produced a viable aircraft on the level of the ME 262 as far as I'm aware, which was my single point here. Not that it really
118 ME AVN FAN : you see, THIS exactly is what I find amazing, that many US-Americans have their flag in a similar place as their religion. It of course is "NOT ok" t
119 Post contains images ANCFlyer : If you get offended and you desire to take issue with the offense, it's always best to deal with the individual that offended you rather than just an
120 Miamiair : But UPS or FedEx don't deliver rations or ammo to a unit out in the field. There is a better chance of being killed in a military training accident t
121 AirCop : Thank you for your comments, Miamiair. There isn't many of us, that volunteer any more. The last figure I saw was approximately 20% of the public had
122 Post contains links Cairo : It isn't quite whitewashing, Klaus. Whitewashing is when you in your mind are fully aware of something and try to hide it. Those who are most promine
123 Post contains images KaiGywer : Pssh on both of ya! A Norwegian built the first jet engine with excess power (viable enough...) 1903 - Aegidius Elling of Norway built the first succ
124 Post contains images Gary2880 : Atleast you can hold yourself in a higher regard that you wouldn't stoop to beating people up like any of those nasty marauding Muslims i love the sm
125 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Bush never even saw that damned shirt - try again Cairo - you missed the mark. Your issue with this is the Capitol Police . . . If you're talking abo
126 Dougloid : True. But if you can't execute, design is unimportant because you maybe win the bragging rights but that's about all. A 262 sitting on the ground wit
127 Cairo : You chose a job with the employer you wanted. We can all appreciate your role in the military and the military in general, just not more so than anyo
128 ANCFlyer : Interesting analogy . . . you won't find me inciting a riot and taking hundred or thousands of people down a city street with me killing people, burn
129 Post contains images Slider : Me too. It may sound Pollyannish, but I am moved by our ceremonies. Hell, when one of our Olympians gets a gold medal and they play the anthem, it st
130 Klaus : You missed my whole point - it was explicitly about the nonsense of claiming exclusive bragging rights for most technologies! And the preceding posts
131 Miamiair : Absoulutely correct. My parents insisted that I earn everything in life. I was never given a car; I had to work during school to save up money to buy
132 Miamiair : BTW, My son loves the begining of the NASCAR races. Why? He is a chip off the old block. There is a respect for flag, country and the military. The Na
133 Post contains images DL021 : British "contributions"? You ignore the facts again with this simple point which helps to illustrate your denial on others. The British had a viable
134 Post contains images Klaus : The European Union has never been based on an illusion that that wasn't the case! Nationality, heritage and identity are much more complex in Europe
135 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : You have obviously not served one day in your life. If you have, you would know that the money is far from being equal to the sacrifice. I'm going to
136 SATX : I think his point was that Bush sets the tone regarding how others handle these sorts of developments. He may not direct anyone to do anything, he ma
137 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Nutshell version: Fifteen year old boards, or attempted to board, a WN flight to somewhere a few months back . . . she was wearing a T-Shirt that sai
138 Post contains images Klaus : Yes. Like german and american contributions. Militarism can exist in very different societies. It does not automatically imply a specific form of gov
139 11Bravo : I think that whole deal had a lot more to do with the prominant display of the f-word than any desire to defend Bush against critisim. I'll bet if th
140 Slider : HUAH!!!! Worse than their not understanding it is trying to assign some moral value to it and question our motives in doing so. I am the first to adm
141 Cairo : Where you end up is largely a function of where you begin. America since the end of WW2 has basically held its own militarily, while economically its
142 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Exactly . . . agree 100%, more the word than the thought . . . I have no complaints about the sentiment . . . everyone is entitled to their opinion.
143 Miamiair : Are you trying to be charming or are you constipated? You have not yet quite grasped the concept of wiping your bum and you stand up on a soap box an
144 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Right, and I agree. Where we are militarily is because of the massive push in industry and technology in this country after WWII. You don't know me v
145 Post contains links Cairo : Usnseallt82, I'd like to address your other comments after lunch, but for now there is one blatant error: THIS IS WRONG It is a foundation of the post
146 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Works for me. I was getting tired of having to post such long replies. Right, but the problem is that MOST of those who hate us don't realize the dif
147 Post contains images Gary2880 : and you chose it so my caring amounts to fuck all. in short yeah afghanistan was ok, look at the pictures you posted to see why. i explained why i on
148 Miamiair : Like supporting Israel? Looking out for the country and it's people, make sure they don't get exterminated? Cutting aid to Hammas, becuase they are h
149 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : You haven't proven me wrong yet. Listen, I'm very willing to understand your point and to hear what you have to say. But so far, you've done nothing
150 Miamiair : First order of business, he has to soil himself. Then wonder if any of those robotic morons in uniform will come save him.
151 Usnseallt82 : Probably so. And then tell us how we shouldn't use certain weapons to defend him.
152 Falcon84 : Remember, the wife of a GOP Congressman was also removed from the House Chamber for wearing a political T-shirt as well, Cairo. Capitol Police determ
153 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Damnit Falcon, you always post these things and make me respect you a little more each time. Its so much easier just thinking you're an ass.
154 Post contains images Halls120 : Which makes it different from most threads how???? While I agree with your assessment that we are more amenable to entering into a military response
155 Dougloid : Well, if that was your point, it's no wonder I missed it because it wasn't at all clear. Here's the past history. It started with talk about who deve
156 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Exactly. Its easy for him to say we shouldn't be there now, while we're helping defend his nation as well. But the second we leave and let everyone d
157 Gary2880 : yet more than happy to impose your foreign power on others in that case you totaly missed the point of everything i have said, using my ant analogy.
158 Post contains images Falcon84 : Well, my party mascot is a donkey, does that help?
159 Usnseallt82 : And for that, I would respect you. But here's the problem.......just because there isn't a clear danger doesn't mean there isn't one present. Just be
160 Gary2880 : im sure your quite aware its silly to sujest that you are in those countrys for only selfless reasons and to give them protection, its swings and rou
161 Post contains images ANCFlyer : If they were shooting at you, believe me, it would dawn on you, return fire or die . . . it's not a difficult concept. explain a lot . . .
162 Richardnhsv : The Meaning Of Our Flag Henry Ward Beecher If one asks me the meaning of our flag, I say to him: It means just what Concord and Lexington meant, what
163 Post contains images Falcon84 : Sit on it, dude. Ah, humor on a Monday-makes the day go faster.
164 Klaus : Not quite. You missed the most relevant part of the whole discussion sub-thread: The beginning: Hubris. Rebuttal. Added perspective, expanding on Gar
165 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Hmm............no, but it sure as hell explains a lot and gives a wonderful visual image.
166 Post contains images Gary2880 : ye i guessed that would come up, just have to hope that they only start fireing when there a mile from my city untill then yes my deepest kudoses go
167 Post contains links SATX : She was actually a 32 year old lumber saleswoman traveling with her husband. The T-shirt was a play on "Meet the Fockers". This is the best link I've
168 Dougloid : Well, if that's what your point was, it was evolutionary and developmental and not at all clear, either now or then. Y'see, none of that has to do wit
169 Usnseallt82 : Even worse. A 32-year-old should know better than to be retarded and wear something like that which will obviously cause someone to be offended. Like
170 Post contains images Klaus : No, not structurally. It looks more like an acute outbreak, not like a chronic condition. No doubt, the reaction towards the Taliban was topically co
171 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Hey Man, you expect me to pass up a target of opportunity like that!!! Only for you man!!! LOL Yeah, yeah, like he said!!!
172 Post contains images Klaus : It was clearly stated in my first post to the topic, quite unmistakeably. If that was your first thought, that's your own problem. I for my part was
173 Post contains images Falcon84 : "Personal Foul, ANCFlyer. Piling on. It will cost him the payment of 2 iced teas at the LA$ meet to Falcon84."
174 Miamiair : Explain just how the US is doing this? You mean like getting rid of a tyrant and murderer and giving the power back to the people to let them decide
175 Post contains images ANCFlyer : I have no idea .. . couldn't pick like a Falcon and an Eagle, eh? Shit, I thought it was stupid teenager. A grown women should know better. Glad WN k
176 Halls120 : We've had a long history of civilian leadership ignoring the advice of their military advisors. If I'm not mistaken, David Halberstam wrote of one su
177 Post contains images Gary2880 : oh so thats what it is... but ive been going on this thread all day and im more than fed up now so im happy with my statement to leave it as it is. i
178 Cairo : You and I see the same danger. We just disagree as to the degree we have already arrived at xenophobia in America. I say the US administration is alr
179 Post contains images DL021 : Ummm....I agree. I think...that did get complicated for a second or two... Well, the funny part is that Falcon was the original model for that mascot
180 Post contains images Slider : OUTSTANDING!!! Thank you sir, for posting that!
181 Miamiair : Screw the UN. The UN is a political organization with an agenda. I don't need to operate by committee when I know what it is that has to be done. The
182 MDorBust : The flag I fought under doesn't belong to George Bush, so your opinions of him are irrelevant. The flag I fought under doesn't belong to Bill Clinton
183 SATX : Or anywhere it can be seen, read, or heard? In other words, keep it to yourself? And yet their agenda has 100x more merit than the Bush doctrine.
184 Mirrodie : Guys, have a ball but please respect each others views. There is no reason this thread can't stay so long as y'all are level headed about it. Please b
185 Post contains images Jacobin777 : wasn't the pretext of the United States invading Iraq due to UNITED NATIONS resolutions violations? can't have it both ways
186 Miamiair : Bush's duties are to the American people, not the rest of the "club," or their interpretation of what Utopia should be.
187 Halls120 : LOL, what you really mean is that we should stand by and let Israel's neighbors exterminate them. Oh, I see. It's all our fault that terrorism exists
188 Dougloid : See, there's the communication breakdown. I knew we'd get there sooner or later. I'd much rather talk about the ME262 and its engines than the flag b
189 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Yes, but there is a fundamental difference that you keep forgetting......ONE IS AN ACCIDENT, ONE IS INTENTIONAL. This has always been a misconception
190 Dougloid : Stupid american...didn't you know Bush was responsible for that too? heh heh...I couldn't keep from laughing there. Carry on, Airman.
191 Halls120 : My first car was a 63 beetle. Later, I had a 73 camper van, and when the engine threw a valve, I rebuilt the engine myself in my garage at night afte
192 Post contains images Mirrodie : really? funny how two posts were deleted there. Pay attention.
193 Post contains images DL021 : Wow. So us being the biggest single contributor to the Palestinean Authority is us being one sided? Y'know...I never had you pegged as a recalcitrant
194 Dougloid : That's what I cut my teeth on-that and my 1956 Ford Fairlane. On the other hand, I rebuilt the engine in my pickup in 2004 (and did a 2,600 mile trip
195 PSA727 : I think the whole subject of the Americans and the US Flag is somewhat descriminatory towards us. It should be directed at everyone worldwide if you w
196 ANCFlyer : This entire point is lost on most people, why waste the bandwidth??? It's a futile effort . . . ]You mean to tell me no one burned a US flag before B
197 Redngold : I respect a symbol as long as it has meaning and its meaning stays true. I don't wrap myself in the flag, literally or figuratively. I don't fly it. I
198 Halls120 : I hide my Grateful Dead CD's from most people. Doesn't fit in with my current image. I've actually owned the following VW's - 63 beetle, 63 van, 70 b
199 Post contains images Jacobin777 : yes...it is our fault to a certain extent........why did the Taliban come into power? why did the current Iranian regime come into power? how did sad
200 Halls120 : LOL, when all else fails, resort to insulting a poster who holds a different view from you. Adds so much to your argument..... And I don't watch Fox
201 Pacificjourney : Quickly, who can remeber what the thread was actually about ? NO SCROLLING ...
202 Post contains images Halls120 : It was a question to Anetters about the US flag. Of course it has strayed off point - it wouldn't be an Anet thread if it hadn't!   [Edited 2006-02
203 Cairo : If I would have meant that, I would have said it. It is straight out of the playbook of the war party to accuse those who in any way criticize as wan
204 Post contains links Dougloid : Say what you will. What the world wants and what the people in the area want are entirely different things. The Hamas charter speaks for itself. Ther
205 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Sure took a left turn didn't it. . . . Alas, we haven't had this conversation in a few months . . . and it's the same, with a different player or two
206 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : Pun intended?
207 Miamiair : That is because the US was the backbone of NATO. If it would not have been for the US having our troops and equipment in Europe you would be driving
208 Halls120 : So do you deny that there are states and entities in the region that would like to see Israel eliminated? Sorry to hear you are on a slow connection.
209 Gary2880 : ''im right your wrong fuck off no need for any more debate'' and they tell me to go back to north korea.
210 Boeing757/767 : Man, some of you make me puke in your ultra-nationalism. The flag IS A DAMNED PIECE OF CLOTH. No more, no less.
211 SATX : Well, I'm an American and I haven't seen Bush 43 do almost anything I agreed with, and that's a massive departure from my view of both Clinton and Bu
212 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Or right turn . . . Big deviation and vectors everywhere . . .
213 Post contains images Jacobin777 : wrong!
214 Halls120 : Actually, this is the purpose of the United Nations - "The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international
215 Post contains images Alfa75 : Can I change the flag that is next to my user name??? Just wondering!
216 ANCFlyer : Edit Profile . . . that'll do it.
217 Post contains links and images NWOrientDC10 : Good article here: http://articles.news.aol.com/news/ar...31509990006&ncid=NWS00010000000001 God Bless America! Russell
218 Post contains links and images Klaus : I can only recommend this recent thread to the topic: Airliners.net Non Aviation: UN: Who Will Succeed Kofi Annan? Ah. Okay, that explains a thing or
219 SATX : Then perhaps you can explain how the stated goals of the UN can be achieved without promoting equality. In what way and for what reason(s)? The only
220 Post contains images Halls120 : Nice try. I believe the burden is on you - as the proponent of the idea - to show how promoting equality ought to be a UN mission. I continue to beli
221 Richardnhsv : My pleasure... glad you enjoyed it
222 Post contains links Cairo : Oh, its much worse than that. There are people and entities all over the world, wherever there are Muslims, that want Israel at best controlled and a
223 Miamiair : Ideals like what? Democracy??? Freedom of Speech??? Freedom of Expression??? Freedom to worship whichever religion you choose??? I am sorry to tell y
224 Halls120 : Do these same arabs and muslims recognize that the reason Israel kills muslims because some muslims invade Israel and murder innocent israelis? Are t
225 Dougloid : With all due respect, did you read the Hamas Manifesto before you posted this vulgarity? Is that what they taught you in North Korea? Maybe you SHOUL
226 Cairo : 1. At this point, because of both sides' religous belief in eye-for-an-eye tactics, both sides have a long laundry list of killings they are forever
227 Halls120 : Sounds like an intractable situation, then. Whoever is left standing after the last bullet has been expended. Sad. Your comparable scenario is laugha
228 Post contains links Cairo : As it stands right now, this statement is exactly right. As long as Israel and the Palestinians can coerce support from elsewhere by portraying the d
229 Halls120 : I thought you'd at least come up with a coherent response. My expectations were too high, I guess. Perhaps you can separate your hatred for Bush from
230 RJpieces : I love the US flag. I can't even begin to describe what it means to me, when I see it in a movie, or hanging in a foreign city. At the same time, I cr
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