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Some Praiseworthy Danish Initiatives  
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

just read that :
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Denmark will host a conference next month to promote religious dialogue following the uproar over the Prophet Mohammed cartoons, the Foreign Ministry announced Thursday.

The government will also give "a significant financial contribution" to a U.N. program aimed at overcoming prejudice between Islam and the West, and support an Islamic festival in Copenhagen, Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller said in a statement.

The conference on religious and cultural dialogue will take place in the Danish capital on March 10, ministry officials said.

"This conference will bring together the prominent Islamic preacher Amr Khaled, two Islamic scholars from the Arab world and three Danish experts," Moeller said.
-
*****************************

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

That's just loaded with nonsequiturs, isn't it?

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1167 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 1):
nonsequiturs

no, not really. It is diplomacy and reconciliation. It is what I asked our Danish friends for on these threads. And I think the Danish initiatives REALLY are to be praised. Particularily as the Danes are INSIDE the EU and a rich and "developed" country, while countries like Syria right now want to have their bilateral association treaties with the EU ratified and implemented. Those in the Danish government and "institutions" in the end however apparently realized that the Danish-Arab (Muslim) relationship got damaged and poisoned. That THEY have taken the initiative to move ahead is what I REALLY appreciate.
-
And finally back to your term. "nonsequiturs" if I understand you correctly are il-logical conclusions ?


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4860 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1163 times:

You mean you can disagree and still reconcile through diplomacy rather than carpet bombing. Quick somebody call the Whitehouse.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1163 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
You mean you can disagree and still reconcile through diplomacy rather than carpet bombing. Quick somebody call the Whitehouse.

You think anyone would listen?
Sadly I think not


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1157 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
you can disagree and still reconcile through diplomacy rather than carpet bombing.

yes, absolutely definitely YES. But I doubt whether those in the White House would understand such a sensible and intelligent approach. Important is that people talk WITH each other and NOT ABOUT each other. I had and have many friends with whom I dis-agree in many points. THAT is no problem as long as you can talk about everything. And find common denominators.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4860 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1156 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):
yes, absolutely definitely YES

I was being a smartass, of course I know reconciliation is possible just I doubt Dubya is for it.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1147 times:

Someone please tell me what the hell has Denmark done?

A private company located in Denmark published these cartoons in a private publication. If the NYT published the same cartoons, would it be up to the US to hold a conference on religious reconcilliation?

Would Saudi Arabia ever host a conference to which Jews were invited to discuss religious tolerance after a state controlled newspaper published an article calling for the destruction of the state of Israel?

This is just one more example of political correctness gone out of control. This absurd, illegal and terroristic activity of radical muslims needs to be stopped. Appeasing them won't solve the problem, it only empowers them. This is the equivalent of rewarding a child for throwing a tantrum.


User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1142 times:

Appeasment is not praiseworthy.

mrocktor


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1138 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
Someone please tell me what the hell has Denmark done?

NOTHING. I mean "Denmark" has NOT done anything. Some Danish citizens did some stuff which angered some people, and somewhat disturbed some more. That is it. Denmark by bad chance slipped into a controversy. That people in Denmark (you know better than I do who exactly it is) now have taken up the matter in a positive way is GOOD

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
A private company located in Denmark published these cartoons in a private publication. If the NYT published the same cartoons, would it be up to the US to hold a conference on religious reconcilliation?


NO, the USA is a superpower, the single one actually.

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
Would Saudi Arabia ever host a conference to

I sincerely hope that Denmark is a level above Denmark ! Countries like Oman, UAE, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco fairly often have such conferences and meetings. The same applies to Italy, Switzerland, France and others.

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
one more example of political correctness gone out of control

no, I hope it is not just an exercise in "political correctness" but a trial to establish a real dialogue

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
absurd, illegal and terroristic activity

ALL, really ALL illegal & terroristic activity is to be fought against by all available means

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
Appeasing

To have a dialogue, to exchange opinions, to listen to others --- all this is NOT "appeasing" . You are NOT expected to describe yourself as a heap of sh...., but you ARE expected to explain your point-of-view, to explain your ideas, your positions, your priorities.

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 8):
Appeasment is not praiseworthy.

look above ............................


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
no, I hope it is not just an exercise in "political correctness" but a trial to establish a real dialogue

What dialogue other than DO NOT fire bomb my property or threaten my citizens needs to be had? Radicial Islam cannot and should not be tolerated. To sit down with these people in a dialogue implies that the Danes have something that they need to learn.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
To have a dialogue, to exchange opinions, to listen to others --- all this is NOT "appeasing" . You are NOT expected to describe yourself as a heap of sh...., but you ARE expected to explain your point-of-view, to explain your ideas, your positions, your priorities.

SAMPLE DIALOGUE:

Radical Islam Representatives: Hey we're really pissed that these cartoon have been published. They are very offensive to our religion and we take great offense.

Danish Representatives: No shit. Some of your fellow muslims burned a couple of our embassies, threatened to kill our citizens and have generally acted like asses.

Oh, by the way, the government of Denmark has absolutely no way to restrict the publication of these cartoons and even if we did, we won't tolerate criminal and terroristic activities by others against our interest.

Radical Islam Representatives: OK, what's for lunch?


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1989 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1118 times:
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Quoting Pope (Reply 11):
SAMPLE DIALOGUE:

Radical Islam Representatives: Hey we're really pissed that these cartoon have been published. They are very offensive to our religion and we take great offense.

Danish Representatives: No shit. Some of your fellow muslims burned a couple of our embassies, threatened to kill our citizens and have generally acted like asses.

Oh, by the way, the government of Denmark has absolutely no way to restrict the publication of these cartoons and even if we did, we won't tolerate criminal and terroristic activities by others against our interest.

Radical Islam Representatives: OK, what's for lunch?

Danish Representatives: Roast Pork and Aquavit  Wink



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
Danish Representatives: Roast Pork and Aquavit

Be careful. I got a two week ban for a similar comment.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4860 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

This is where I bow out of this thread, now that the bomb those "Camel-jockey f*cks" spporters have jumped in.

ciao,
YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1108 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 10):
What dialogue other than DO NOT fire bomb my property or threaten my citizens needs to be had? Radicial Islam cannot and should not be tolerated. To sit down with these people in a dialogue implies that the Danes have something that they need to learn.

you talk about "radical" Islam. But as far as I have read, there is nothing about "radical" but just normal. "the Danes something to learn" ? maybe, but they rather should try to explain, on one side, while taking note of the ideas of the other side

Quoting Pope (Reply 11):
Radical Islam Representatives:

again "Radical" -- did the Danish side invite Radicals ?

Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
Radical Islam Representatives: OK, what's for lunch?
Danish Representatives: Roast Pork and Aquavit Wink

it should be "ROAST LAMB" -- and the Aquavit should be re-labelled as "Danish Arak" -- and all is OK . what about some flexibility ?!


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 15):
again "Radical" -- did the Danish side invite Radicals ?

Well what purpose does it serve dialoguing with people with whom you don't have a problem with. If the radicals are the ones with the problem doesn't it make sense for them to show up.

If everyone's in agreement, what's the purpose of the meeting?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 15):
you talk about "radical" Islam. But as far as I have read, there is nothing about "radical" but just normal. "the Danes something to learn" ? maybe, but they rather should try to explain, on one side, while taking note of the ideas of the other side

Do you really believe anyone isn't clear on what the Danish position is? Don't set fire to our embassies. Don't threaten our citizens.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 14):
This is where I bow out of this thread, now that the bomb those "Camel-jockey f*cks" spporters have jumped in.

If you don't want to participate - then don't but a post such as yours is just a plea for attention.



User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

sorry hit the post button twice

[Edited 2006-02-24 23:20:40]

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1099 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Well what purpose does it serve dialoguing with people with whom you don't have a problem with. If the radicals are the ones with the problem doesn't it make sense for them to show up.
not only radicals had a problem. The majority of the demonstrators overall were NOT radicals

If everyone's in agreement, what's the purpose of the meeting?

NOT everyone is in agreement. It is just as in a discussion on Swiss TV recently where a German MidEast correspondent in many ways defended Arab views, an editor-in-chief (who I personally know) took a staunch "European" position (sometimes coming up with arguments I told him they were sh... 10 years ago), a rep of the Catholic church and one of the Protestant church, and an Iranian journalist (a dedicated secularist) who explained the Muslim perspective(s). They neither at the start nor at the end did agree, but managed to put some light onto the matter and to put matters into decent perspectives. To agree to disagree, that is the ... !

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Do you really believe anyone isn't clear on what the Danish position is?

YES, there has been a deplorable lack of communication from the Danish side

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Don't set fire to our embassies

Nobody ever should do so ! it is clear and beyond discussion

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Don't threaten our citizens.

Never heard that Danish citizens in general got threatened. And if it happened anywhere it was both wrong and nonsensical .


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1092 times:

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 8):
Appeasment is not praiseworthy.

mrocktor

Concur, although I sometimes disagree with you, you nailed this one.

It's also not effective policy either. Just ask Neville Chamberlain.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1089 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
YES, there has been a deplorable lack of communication from the Danish side

What do the Danes need to explain? That they don't like to be threatened?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
Never heard that Danish citizens in general got threatened. And if it happened anywhere it was both wrong and nonsensical .

There is a $1M bounty on the head of the artist and the newspaper publisher. Don't know about you but that qualifies as a threat to me.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1075 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 20):
there has been a deplorable lack of communication from the Danish side
--
What do the Danes need to explain? That they don't like to be threatened?

That the freedom of the press has a high priority. That the government neither controls nor influences nor supervises the press. That the freedom to make jokes about everything is an essential part of real freedom.

Quoting Pope (Reply 20):
Never heard that Danish citizens in general got threatened. And if it happened anywhere it was both wrong and nonsensical .
--
There is a $1M bounty on the head of the artist and the newspaper publisher.

That is bad. And I admit a misunderstanding. I thought that "Danish citizens" meant "Danish citizens in general" but an indefinite plural of course also can mean two particular persons. Hope your security forces are more careful than the Swiss ones were about that skyguide who was involved in the aircraft-crash above the Lake of Constance and then was murdered by a father of killed children from Russia --- not least due to carelessness of company and security-forces alike. Such matters are a definite mess. And the two (or more) men should be most careful.


User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1060 times:

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 8):
Appeasment is not praiseworthy.

Reminds me of an old saying, "An appeaser keeps feeding a crocodile hoping, he'll be the last one to be eaten"



An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 22):
An appeaser keeps feeding a crocodile hoping, he'll be the last one to be eaten"

-
I remember, when being in hotel in MyrtleBeach/SC (in 1997), I spoke with an employee of the hotel who in the morning carefully, with a very long stick, checked up the bottom of the swimming pool. He explained :
> we do so each morning because the alligators love swimming pools at night
> no, we do NOT have problems with them. We never hurt them and we talk, yes Sir, talk, with them nicely.
> we however make it absolutely clear that they are to get out
> they understand nicely well, even if the sometimes hiss a little bit
> the point for us is never to get aggressive, never to approach them, and
always give them enough time to retreat, and handle them without fear but with due respect
-
conclusion out of that : manners, behaviours , tact, talk, an effort to make yourself understood, -- all this is NOT appeasemant. And for contact about human beings, communicative efforts and the readiness to talk about everything is NOT appeasement. If you are NOT ready to discuss as soon as you feel to be right, and are ready for discussion if you are un-sure about your position, then you are WRONG anyway.


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