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Do PCs Run Hotter On Calc-Intense Programs?  
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

This has been a running discussion in my firm, and I'm hoping that the brightest minds in the world (a.netters, of course) can put this matter to bed once and for all:

Do PCs run hotter when they are 'working hard' i.e. running calc-intensive programs? Specifically, does the processor chip heat up when it does more 'calcs'? Assume that the processor is not a step-down chip.

I'm arguing not, because the the heat generated by a chip is proportional to the voltage applied, and has nothing to do with internal operations.

Please help!

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1217 times:

It does, We run applications and cards that have digi temp gauges in my pc repair lab and the more 0's and 1's and the more difficult the load the higher the temp that the processor runs.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineGordonsmall From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2001, 2102 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1210 times:

They do, hence why processors/graphic cards that have cooling issues tend to show them up when running calc-intensive processes such as 3D games etc rather than internet browsing or word processing which barely task a processor.


Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

It depends on the construction principles used in the chip.

A fully-clocked and fully dynamic CPU would draw the same amount of power regardless of what it's doing.

But modern CPUs are mostly static designs which don't need to have all their components clocked all the time, so they simply stop those components which aren't needed . In addition there are multiple ways to reduce clock frequency or to even stop execution completely until execution needs to be resumed (this can be used by the operating system when the computer is generally idling and just waiting for input, so it's only woken up periodically to animate a blinking cursor or the like).

What's drawing current is actually any change of internal signals; most current sinks in a modern high-density chip are related to capacitive loads, not to resistive ones.

When the CPU's internal clock frequency is reduced, its supply voltage can be reduced as well, so power consumption will go down even further.

Even if all power-saving features are disabled you'll probably find some difference in power consumption between idle and full load situations since the CPU would usually still optimize its power consumption to a degree.

Nowadays most CPUs do in fact use various methods for reduction of power consumption, so you'd have a hard time finding one that doesn't. At most you could disable the major reconfiguration mechanisms (such as frequency switching or idle stopping) in the operating system. But making intensive use of the floating-point unit or leaving it idling most of the time can still have a measurable impact on power consumption.

And if the operating system is working properly, the difference between full load and idle will be substantial, with noise level and chip longevity being affected as well.


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1184 times:

Yes, the modern ones do. CPU power management has grown into a art. If you have a recent generation AMD CPU, you can even see the management in action. Download a tool here: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...sources/0,,30_182_871_9706,00.html

User currently offlineJ_Hallgren From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1168 times:

Definitely! My laptop temp goes up about 20F min when CPU gets really busy. Sometimes even as much as 40 degrees diff from idle...
There are numerous monitor pgms avail on Net...the one I used on old PC was MBM (motherboard monitor), which I think is still floating around but not updated recently.



COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1147 times:

Thanks everyone for the insight! I learned a lot today.

Suppose we we have Klaus's fully clocked, dynamic chip (no power management) in steady state, will it get hotter when it's 'working' because the capacitors are changing state more frequently?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Not necessarily... a fully dynamic CPU has all its main components clocked all the time anyway. The difference would not be that great if the data in the pipelines isn't changing in that case.

And that is one of the reasons why dynamic designs have mostly been replaced by static ones which can be clocked down or even stopped completely without losing data as the older ones would have had.

I don't think you can buy a modern PC any more with an old-style dynamic CPU nowadays... Just ones whose power management features might not be supported properly by the operating system.


User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1142 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):

Thanks Klaus! Apart form contributing to my understanding of chips, you've helped me win an argument with my team. I had spent some time in Hamburg many years ago: it must have made me smarter than I realized... Wink


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

The bill is in the mail...! Big grin

You're welcome.  Smile


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1140 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Not necessarily... a fully dynamic CPU has all its main components clocked all the time anyway. The difference would not be that great if the data in the pipelines isn't changing in that case.

And that is one of the reasons why dynamic designs have mostly been replaced by static ones which can be clocked down or even stopped completely without losing data as the older ones would have had.

I don't think you can buy a modern PC any more with an old-style dynamic CPU nowadays... Just ones whose power management features might not be supported properly by the operating system.

Basically, what this means is: Macs are rubbish, PCs are better.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

It's somewhat reckless drawing that conclusion, as Macs and PCs share the same CPU models nowadays...  mischievous 

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1133 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
It's somewhat reckless drawing that conclusion, as Macs and PCs share the same CPU models nowadays... mischievous

I'm just cutting through the computing bullcrap to get straight to the point. CPU, Intel, AMD, OSX, Vista yada yada yada...Macs are rubbish. You could just say that instead of all the jargon!


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

I see you're still traumatized from our earlier exchanges; But I'm sure its nothing a few years of intensive therapy couldn't fix...!  cool 

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
I see you're still traumatized from our earlier exchanges; But I'm sure its nothing a few years of intensive therapy couldn't fix...! cool

Luckily, I have a PC!


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1125 times:

That probably explains the desperation speaking from your initial post...!  mischievous 

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1121 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
That probably explains the desperation speaking from your initial post...! mischievous

My PC never gets hot. In fact, it generates electricity spontaneously, and feeds it back to the grid through the plug.

It's currently working out a solution to the problems in the Middle East (will be done in an hour) and is about to make me a half-caff latte with cinnamon. Yum!


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Well, that sounds truly marvellous, indeed!

Now if it only didn't drive you to insanity before that, it would be almost perfect, wouldn't it? Big grin


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Well, that sounds truly marvellous, indeed!

It's just everyday life for a PC user!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Now if it only didn't drive you to insanity before that,

You're only a simple Mac user. I wouldn't expect you to understand.  Sad


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18):
It's just everyday life for a PC user!

Too bad most PC users live outside your blissful parallel universe and actually have to cope with Windows...!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18):
You're only a simple Mac user. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Oh, the Reality Distortion Field™ is actually an Apple invention, too - but it seems the PC world has finally caught on to that as well, at last... Big grin


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1107 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Too bad most PC users live outside your blissful parallel universe and actually have to cope with Windows...!

It's a Window to the world, dontcha know?

The only good Mac is a Big one.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 20):
It's a Window to the world, dontcha know?

...to a world of horrors and frustration, as anybody can see who's following all the "rescue me!" threads in here...  mischievous 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18):
The only good Mac is a Big one.

Well, the smaller ones - the iMac and the Mac mini - are pretty good, too. But a multi-CPU professional Mac is better still, of course!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1103 times:

As has been stated, the answer is DEFINATELY yes!

Best way to see how it is running is to download a motherboard monitoring program (make sure it's compatible) and watch it when the computer isn't "doing" anything, then run a crapload of inense stuff and watch  Smile

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1099 times:

My CPU runs hot all the time...that is because I run a Distributed Computing Program which keeps my processor really busy. I have no clue what my idle temperature is, but I really do not care  Big grin

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

I didn't want to start another PC thread, but here's a question for this elite group of a.netters:

Are PCs with 2 hard drives much faster than 1? At first glance, you'd think that with Queuing Theory (Single queue, two servers) it would be (like 2 elevators instead of one). In the practical world , do you end up with a much faster system if you put XP and paging files on one disk, and your apps on another?

Thanks again!


25 FlyPIJets : If you stripe the drives its faster. (Google RAID for more info). Macs have this built in. Not sure on the Windows OS.[Edited 2006-02-26 16:14:02]
26 Post contains images Gordonsmall : There isn't a yes/no answer to this question I'm afraid - it's very much situation dependent. It is possible to make a computer run faster by utilisi
27 Post contains images Klaus : Striping would be one possibility (at actually reduced reliability overall, though!). If you have too little RAM and your system is swapping a lot, a
28 Post contains images FlyPIJets : Just wondering, 'cause I'm not a physics major. The OP title question, do PC's run hotter on cal-intensive programs? Is there any system that produces
29 FlyPIJets : True, the idea is, that if one drive in a striped system fails the whole RAID system fails. So every time you add a drive to a striped RAID drive, yo
30 777236ER : Not if it obeys the second law.
31 Comorin : I think the heat generated based on reduction of Entropy by organizing information would be too small to measure. Chips don't really do any mechanica
32 Post contains links Eilennaei : No, unfortunately not, every form of energy ultimately degrades into heat. &&&&&&&&&& RAIDs are being implemented now even on cheap-grade matherboard
33 Eilennaei : In reality this effect is substantial, as systems are now aware if they are being clocked into doing "nothing". It has been this way since the early
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