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No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote  
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

Having just seen Capote it stands head and shoulders above Brokeback Mountain in every way. The acting (Philip Seymour Hoffman vs Heath Ledger: no contest; Clifton Collins Jr vs Jake Gyllenhall: again no contest) was flawless. The cinematography was amazing and Hoffman played the part of a lovesick, ambitious manipulator to perfection.

I certainly hope it gets it's just rewards on Oscar night.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1995 times:
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Sorry to inform you of this, but Brokedick Mountain won it's oscars the day script began being written. A movie centred around two gay guys is much more interesting to the Academy(Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types), than one, wayward homosexual, who was old, strange, and decended into a pit of dispair after the crux of his work was complete. Furthermore, the other components are much too tantalising to overlook:
1. Set in Wyoming, a red state
2. Takes place in beautiful, rural surroundings(appeases the enviromentalist wackos, in which the backdrop will be used to blame Republicans for wanting to destroy our enviroment. They'll work an-republican message in there somewhere, they always do.
3. The 2 characters are lying to the girlfriends/wives(Clintonesque) and struggle to find themselves(notice the dramatism in there)
4. It was directed by a minority, Ang Lee, who is a great director(not making an issue of race, rather just pointing out some of the irressitible, romantic elements of why the Academy will most likely vote for it).
I didn't see Brokeback Mountain, but as soon as the industry was fawning over it(before it was completed), I knew that no other movie had a chance. It was the same with Ray, (although Jamie Foxx was incredible) they were already giving the oscar nods to it long before it came out. But it deserved them.
I was blown away by Walk The Line(Joaqiun Phoenix was scary-incredible at being Johnny Cash. Iw as convinced I was seeing the real thing), and Capote was great. I like Phil Seymour Hoffman(he's one of the greatest actors of today, by far and cemented his place with Capote), but it's not going to win. The winner has already been decided, and it's politically-based.

[Edited 2006-02-27 01:43:37]


Made from jets!
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
and it's politically-based.

Very late, but the movie is finally opening in Mexico this week. I'll check it out before making a similar claim. If the movie is a good one, they deserve every Oscar they get.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

JetJack: you have made your opinion about the Academy known. As someone who hates film as much as I do, I will say this:

Your depiction of the Hollywood Academy is no different than the liberal whackos you call out. It's a prejudice, nothing more. I could give a rat's ass about Brokeback Whatever, but don't feed me your conservative crap; your crap is no different than theirs.


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

I wasn't aware anyone cared about the Oscars anymore.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

Well, Logan, you just know that "liberal wacko" stuff is going to start showing up here anyway...  sarcastic  so let JetJack say his piece.

As for the thread topic... I'm not going to touch it again, not even with a ten foot pole, so don't bother flaming me.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
A movie centred around two gay guys is much more interesting to the Academy(Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types), than one, wayward homosexual, who was old, strange, and decended into a pit of dispair after the crux of his work was complete. Furthermore, the other components are much too tantalising to overlook:

There's enough of a gay interest in Capote to interest the "Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types" as you charmingly typecast them, so I can't understand why Brokeback would stand out, particularly when it could be argued that it portrayed gay relationships as being inherently doomed.

As for cinematography, while Brokeback was beautifully filmed, the cinematography in Capote was stunning: it re-created the late 50s and early 60s superbly, and it also captured the essence of the wide open plains of Kasnas magnificently. It is a flawless film.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1923 times:
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Quoting Logan22L (Reply 3):
Your depiction of the Hollywood Academy is no different than the liberal whackos you call out.

Becuase they're one of the same. Remember Passion of The Christ? The Academy shunned it completely. It was a magnificant film, superly acted, very well put together, and nothing. So you're going to tell me that the academy isn't biased? That they don't pick movies strictly on their personal liberal POV? That they aren't complete idealogues?

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 3):
It's a prejudice, nothing more. I could give a rat's ass about Brokeback Whatever, but don't feed me your conservative crap; your crap is no different than theirs.

I'm not trying to feed you anything. You don't like it, don't read it. There's not a doubt that Hollywood is a bunch of loons and the only movies that win awards anymore, are the hotbutton storylines that provoke ideas simply on left-wing agenda. That's my point.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 6):
There's enough of a gay interest in Capote to interest the "Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types" as you charmingly typecast them, so I can't understand why Brokeback would stand out, particularly when it could be argued that it portrayed gay relationships as being inherently doomed.

But that's not what the movie is based upon. Capote was a ecentric, self-loathing, recluse who put his life and his sanity into a book, of which ultimately destroyed him. Phil Seymour Hoffman play the role brilliantly. You were baffled by this guy and without Hoffman, the film wouldn't have been nearly as good. I can't speak for Brokeback Mountain because I didn't see it, and i'm not saying it was a bad movie, but I have an opinion as to why it is being nominated(the agenda), and critics are panting so much over it. The red flags are all there

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 6):
As for cinematography, while Brokeback was beautifully filmed, the cinematography in Capote was stunning: it re-created the late 50s and early 60s superbly, and it also captured the essence of the wide open plains of Kasnas magnificently. It is a flawless film

No arguements there.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
I was blown away by Walk The Line(Joaqiun Phoenix was scary-incredible at being Johnny Cash. Iw as convinced I was seeing the real thing),

The mere fact Walk The Line isn't even up for Best Picture is a TRAVESTY....not even worth watching the show. At least we'll have the opportunity to own it on DVD on Tuesday!

As long as my girl Reese wins best actress and Joaquin gets best actor, then my tiny thread of respect for this comedy show remains. But, it's all political theatre anyway.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
The winner has already been decided, and it's politically-based.

 checkmark 

Brokedick Mountain...now that's hilarious....  rotf  rotf 


User currently offlineEWROwznj00 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

I haven't been to the movies in ages, so I can't really comment here.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 7):
I can't speak for Brokeback Mountain because I didn't see it, and i'm not saying it was a bad movie, but I have an opinion as to why it is being nominated(the agenda), and critics are panting so much over it. The red flags are all there

Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9403 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 9):

Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.

because that would totally make sense, girlfriend.

[Edited 2006-02-27 03:52:52]


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 8):
The mere fact Walk The Line isn't even up for Best Picture is a TRAVESTY

Opinions certainly differ! It was a very enjoyable film, and Joaquin Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon were amazing -- and the fact that they actually sang made it so real -- it's a film I wouldn't re-visit.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1875 times:
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Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 9):
Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.

When it comes out on DVD I will. It's a netflix thing

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 11):
it's a film I wouldn't re-visit.

I did. It was that great.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1866 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 4):
I wasn't aware anyone cared about the Oscars anymore.

Harry

Couldn't agree more. I'll watch the show, because Jon Stewart is hosting, but I could care less who wins and who loses.

Why people who aren't in the industry seem to care so much about this fawning self-promotion is something I've never understood.

I go to movies because 1) the plot sounds interesting ("art" films, for example), 2) word of mouth is positive, or 3) I've seen the trailers and it looks promising. OK, and if there is hot chick who might undress......


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 7):
Remember Passion of The Christ? The Academy shunned it completely.

Passion of the Christ was nominated by the Academy for Best Cinematography, Makeup and Original Score.

It was also nominated for Best Movie by the International Horror Guild (I love Google).  rotfl 



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1813 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 12):
Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 9):
Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.

When it comes out on DVD I will. It's a netflix thing

Well, until then why don't you hold your peace and quit the BS.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6854 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 4):
I wasn't aware anyone cared about the Oscars anymore.

My sentiments exactly, Harry.

Loony Hollywood had to create a stage to give itself a boost at a time when it was ailing (Douglas Fairbanks). It's nothing more than a self-aggrandizing dog and pony show, and for many decades, it's had little to do with the "best" of anything....


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7211 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 6):
As for cinematography, while Brokeback was beautifully filmed, the cinematography in Capote was stunning: it re-created the late 50s and early 60s superbly, and it also captured the essence of the wide open plains of Kasnas magnificently. It is a flawless film.

I saw Capote on Friday evening. The filming was superb, with excellent use of light - especially comparing the dark last man standing cells and the bright whitewashed images of the Costa Brava. Also well filmed was the use of light reflection on the cells when someone visited from outside. The wide open plains of Kansas were also aweinspring - especially the bleak all-american farmhouse surrounded by the grey of November. - thats two movies in 2005/6 that have amazing use of light- Capote and Charlie and the chocolate factory.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 918 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1749 times:

I think Heath Ledger was far superior in portraying Ennis Del Mar's angst then Seymour Hoffman was in portraying Truman Capote's animation.

Heath Ledger had the greatest leap in convincing the audience of the plausibility of the role and he carried that off exceedingly well.

Now, if I had to bet money, I would bet on Seymour Hoffman, the Capote role has a feel for greater "tour de force" - but i didn't agree that it does.


yes, I am going to watch the Oscar's - it is fun, movies are fun. Going to see a movie is fun. Watching movie stars is fun.



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User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

I haven't seen "Capote" yet, so I can't really comment on it, but I LOVE Phillip Seymour Hoffman and I can't wait to see it!

However, I have seen "Brokeback Mountain" twice and I have to say that I'll be rooting for it on March 5th. It is the most heartbreakingly beautiful lovestory ever filmed, hands down. The subtle ways in which raw human emotions are portrayed on screen cannot be descirbed as anything other than art. I loved this movie.



"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 18):
I think Heath Ledger was far superior in portraying Ennis Del Mar's angst then Seymour Hoffman was in portraying Truman Capote's animation.

Gosh I couldn't disagree more. To me, Heath Ledger gave an amazing performance of a very selfish individual with not very much going on in his head. Philip Seymour Hoffman's Capote was a far more complex character: again selfish, but also completley self-absorbed, manipulative and enormously infatuated with someone he was just using. His performance was amazing.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 19):
It is the most heartbreakingly beautiful lovestory ever filmed, hands down

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see much love in this film. Two fishing buddies who had sex once or twice a year. I didn't find it convincing at all. And the sex scene was a joke.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 20):
To me, Heath Ledger gave an amazing performance of a very selfish individual with not very much going on in his head. Philip Seymour Hoffman's Capote was a far more complex character: again selfish, but also completley self-absorbed, manipulative and enormously infatuated with someone he was just using.

But the Ledger character was just that - a man with a minimal education beholden to cultural forces and failing to find a way out of the contradictions and mess of his life. Capote was a New York intellectual, a writer, a man who by his sheer wit and gumption could bring the political and art worlds of Washington, DC and New York together. Yes, it makes Capote the more interesting of the two, but it doesn't diminish the reality of Enis.

In any case, my personal favorite this year was Crash. Everyone gave a mind blowing performance. Thandi Newton and Matt Dillon were memorable. Crash managed to do what few films have done - lay bare the issue of race we all tip toe around. And, yet, it did it using the medium of a taut thriller where the audience was always on the edge.


User currently offlineLH477 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 584 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
In any case, my personal favorite this year was Crash. Everyone gave a mind blowing performance. Thandi Newton and Matt Dillon were memorable. Crash managed to do what few films have done - lay bare the issue of race we all tip toe around. And, yet, it did it using the medium of a taut thriller where the audience was always on the edge.

Yes, Crash was simply amazing. The most memorable performance for me was Sandra Bullock. I was not expecting that from Bullock. And Terrance Howard, what can I say, the man gives gives an amazing performance in every role he is involved in.


The Oscar will most likely go to Hoffman, but I think Howard is more deserving.
Crash deserves to win the Oscars, but the hype around Brokeback Mountain will mean it most likely take the Oscar.



Come on you gunners......!!!!!
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

[CRITICAL SPOILER ALERT FOR BROKEBACK!]

4

3

2

1

0 MAJOR SPOILER BELOW ABOUT THE PLOT.

Reading the various accounts of this movie, one does not see many references to what I discovered by chance was a major feature of what occurs to one of the major characters. In listening to one particular account, not associated with a review, I discovered that one of characters is killed in an act of violence.

What does it say about reviewers in general that so few of them -- if any -- mention this central conceit?


User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 918 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
But the Ledger character was just that - a man with a minimal education beholden to cultural forces and failing to find a way out of the contradictions and mess of his life. Capote was a New York intellectual, a writer, a man who by his sheer wit and gumption could bring the political and art worlds of Washington, DC and New York together. Yes, it makes Capote the more interesting of the two, but it doesn't diminish the reality of Enis.

Well put. But also from the point of acting, Hoffman had a wealth of work to study and learn how to re-create Capote. What did Ledger really have to work with to bring Enis to life?

I, too, agree that Crash was an amazing movie. It engaged me from start to finish. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this movie won Best Picture, especially since Oprah started to push this movie near the end of voting and the Academy is pretty conservative and most likely looking for a reason to not vote for Brokeback Mountain.



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
25 AerospaceFan : From a sociological standpoint, I would have to choose Good Night, And Good Luck. I have yet to see any of the movies listed, but from hearsay, the su
26 Post contains images Kevi747 : You definately missed something. What I found most refreshing about the movie was how understated it was. You have to watch for the subtle nuances in
27 FlyPIJets : Rarely does a thriller keep it going at the pace that Crash does. There is an unexpected twist every 5 to 10 minutes in this movie. Ensemble cast mov
28 FlyPIJets : I think you kind of answered your own question, revealing that detail is a spoiler. If you knew this detail before seeing the picture, you miss the o
29 Braybuddy : Funny, everyone I know who's seen this film -- and it's rare we all agree -- enjoyed it enormously. Nothing. . . which, in my opinion, is why his cha
30 Post contains images Halls120 : Hell has once more frozen over. Crash was simply amazing. I can't recall a movie that has ever come so close to making my heart stop - as once scene
31 Post contains images SKYSERVICE_330 : Hoffman had the benefit of having literature to study and work from to create his character. Ledger didn't have this benefit, he had to create it wit
32 Braybuddy : I agree. . . and it showed!
33 Post contains images SKYSERVICE_330 : Who is the better actor then? The one that simply recreated a character or the one that had to create the character from scratch?
34 Braybuddy : It depends on the quality of the performance. It could be argued that recreating a person's mannerisms and accent faithfully is far more difficult th
35 Post contains images Kevi747 : Thank you for the response! Interesting, but I still think it was way too heavy-handed. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess movies
36 FlyPIJets : I don't disagree with you at all. Crash was heavy-handed, in your face about its message. But, it was an thriller - and thrillers are best when they
37 Post contains images Kevi747 : OK, gotcha. You liked the movie for the same reasons I disliked it. Different strokes for different folks. If I could just expand a little on what I
38 Braybuddy : Hey! I'm with you here. . . I've been criticised for critcising things you are SUPPOSED to like. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was hailed as a master
39 767Lover : I think this is the point that a lot of people have been trying to make. I have not seen this film (will wait for On Demand) but I get the feeling th
40 Post contains images Kevi747 : Absolutely not, but that movie couldn't be made anyway. I can't think of a situation between a man and a woman that would parallel the one that the t
41 Braybuddy : Why so, Kevi? And what do you mean "flipped off the screen"?
42 SFOMEX : At last, I was able to see Brokeback Mountain. It opened yesterday in a lot of movie theaters, which was kind of surprising. I don't know if the movie
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