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Majority Of Troops In Iraq Support Withdrawal  
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

Over the course of the war in Iraq, I've listened to what both sides of what the government and public opinion have to say. I did not support the invasion, but I have always held the firm belief that if you go in and make a mess, it's your responsibility to clean it up, and given my support to making Iraq a better place before we leave, whatever the cost.

There's been several posts and threads on this board regarding the good things going on in Iraq, that have been good to hear. Those posts usually use the basis of "if you listened to the troops on the ground, you'd see what's really happening."

Now I'm confused a bit. A poll released on Tuesday states that 1/4 of the troops in Iraq want an immediate withdrawal, and the balance want the U.S. to be out within a year. When Rep. Murtha called for withdrawal, he was branded a coward on the House floor.

Is the poll inaccurate? Have we crossed a line where we're now doing more harm than good, and should withdraw before more harm is done? Is this what our troops are now telling us?

I ask these questions because my faith in our capability to make Iraq a better place is now on shaky ground, having heard the opinions of our troops who are there.

A couple of the many news stories on the poll:

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...p?feed=FT&Date=20060301&ID=5543773

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/a63c6b8c-a8b4-11da-aeeb-0000779e2340.html

Some of the opinions expressed during the poll are disturbing:

Seventy-two per cent said the US should withdraw within 12 months, and 29 per cent said they should pull out immediately.

[...]

Although Mr Bush has acknowledged that Iraq played no role in September 11, 85 per cent of the troops said the US mission was mainly "to retaliate for Saddam's role in the 9/11 attacks".


Then this surprise at the end (although I'm not sure how one could have a re-enlistment above 100%):

... the rate at which troops who have fulfilled their committment to the military re-enlist - were above 100 per cent for most units, suggesting that troops were not disaffected by the mission in Iraq.

The disparity I can't reconcile is why there's such a high retention rate if the boots want us to leave, and it can only lead me to believe that it's a combination of a healthy retention package and their belief we're there to retaliate for 9/11. I hope I'm wrong about that, and am open to other theories.


International Homo of Mystery
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

I couldn't see what Denmark needed to do there anyhoo, so... I don't how ever think, that we should leave the US/UK troops behind, although our 500 max troops will do that much a diference  Smile

I fully understand why they are not that happy about staying in Iraq.

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

They're tired and fed up.

And who can blame them.

Although I really can't imagine what would happen to Iraq were we to withdraw even within a year. For one, its highly unlikely that the Wolfowitz doctrine will have worked as a pro-US government is an iffy post-withdrawal situation at best. Opposed as I was to this endeavor, especially because of the dubious ideology and trumped-up reasons for it, leaving Iraq in a quagmire would undermine US interests greatly in the middle east. We would essentially leave Iraq in a state far more dangerous to the world and the US, than what existed before. I don't think an early withdrawal is even in the cards right now. You can't just leave a cake in the oven and walk away...


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 21386 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quote:
Although Mr Bush has acknowledged that Iraq played no role in September 11, 85 per cent of the troops said the US mission was mainly "to retaliate for Saddam's role in the 9/11 attacks"

It is really disturbing to see such a high level of misinformation among the ranks - the propaganda has worked overproportionally among them, it appears...!


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
... the rate at which troops who have fulfilled their committment to the military re-enlist - were above 100 per cent for most units, suggesting that troops were not disaffected by the mission in Iraq.

This one is realtively easy . . . re-enlistments. (I once had an additional duty as a Unit Reenlistment NCO).

When a soldier is within 120 days of the end of their time in service, the reenlistment folks meet with him/her (gonna use him for the rest of this note). Once that same soldier gets to within 90 days, his name goes on an active reenlistment list. Percentages of reenlistments are counted off that list. But a soldier CAN reenlist well in advance of that window. So, if you get 100% of those soldiers reenlisting that are on the active list, plus 10% of the soldiers that are eligible but outside the window, you have 110%. Seems simple, eh?

How many soldiers were polled? I missed that or it wasn't there. That would certainly give a broader perspective on this.

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
Those posts usually use the basis of "if you listened to the troops on the ground, you'd see what's really happening."

And that is correct. The fact the poll states 1/4 of the troops believe an immediate withdrawal is warranted doesn't cloud the fact, nor excuse, the lack of reporting the full perspective of what occurs there. Two entirely different animals.

A soldier might think it's time to pull out immediately because he thinks the job is done, they've done good things, they've accomplished the mission.

Another may think it's time to pull out immediately because of entirely the opposite perspective.

It's all in the context of what the soldier is thinking. Simply polling them, asking "When should we leave" doesn't give a proper perspective. A followon question: "and why" would add weight to the issue.

As for the poll results versus the high retention rate . . . .
As I said above, these soldiers may in fact think it's time to go as they've done all that can be done. it's not a refletion on their desire to continue their service, only their opinion on the mission.

I'm not dismissing the poll at all . . . in fact, I was surprised at the totals.

I hope the Pentagon isn't dismissing it either . . . alas, my faith in Dumsfeld leads me to think otherwise.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3499 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

And the plot thickens...

I'm sure that a broader survey would produce lower numbers, but this has been the prevailing sentiment from most people I've talked to who have recently returned from Iraq. That said, the United States and Great Britain are responsible for the current situation there, and until some degree of order can be established, withdrawl is out of the question.

What ever happened to that other nation we're building?



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
I don't think an early withdrawal is even in the cards right now. You can't just leave a cake in the oven and walk away.

Me either, and I've never even considered that option, truth be told. I am concerned that with troops not fully knowing their mission, it's causing something we don't want to happen come to fruition.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
How many soldiers were polled? I missed that or it wasn't there. That would certainly give a broader perspective on this.

In the first link:

John Zogby, president of Zogby International, said US commanders in Iraq unofficially gave approval for the poll of 944 respondents to take place. It took place before last week's bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
So, if you get 100% of those soldiers reenlisting that are on the active list, plus 10% of the soldiers that are eligible but outside the window, you have 110%.

LOL, that was easy.  Wink

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
A soldier might think it's time to pull out immediately because he thinks the job is done, they've done good things, they've accomplished the mission.

That's where I find the 85% saying we're there to retaliate, not bring about a better Iraq, to be most disturbing.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3499 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
That's where I find the 85% saying we're there to retaliate, not bring about a better Iraq, to be most disturbing.

Building a better Iraq has only been the primary reason for the invasion since the WMD thing didn't pan out.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
John Zogby, president of Zogby International, said US commanders in Iraq unofficially gave approval for the poll of 944 respondents to take place. It took place before last week's bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra.

 Embarrassment

Let me ask this: With 140,000 troops in place, does anyone think asked 944 of them and getting a solid answer, think this is representative of the total force? I'd like to see 50,000 of them polled . . .

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
I don't think an early withdrawal is even in the cards right now. You can't just leave a cake in the oven and walk away...

Agreed. As you mentioned, an early withdrawal would, IMO, do a lot more harm than good . . . the job isn't finished yet. And as I've said before, there will a sizeable force in Iraq for another 8-10 years. Not, mind you, 140,000 troops, but at least a Division sized element (20,000 including support troops).


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Let me ask this: With 140,000 troops in place, does anyone think asked 944 of them and getting a solid answer, think this is representative of the total force?

Well of course every poll is done within a tolerance level, and this one is a rare look at a defined group that isn't often polled. I'd like to see higher numbers too, but understand the process.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2383 times:
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Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Let me ask this: With 140,000 troops in place, does anyone think asked 944 of them and getting a solid answer, think this is representative of the total force? I'd like to see 50,000 of them polled . . .

944 is not a random number. There are polling techniques used to determine sample size based on desired confidence, and margin of error.

There is a curve that says, the more people you poll the "less different" the average response will become. Point is - if you poll 944 or 135,000, the answer will be very very close.

It is better to as to see the exact questionnaire that was used, rather than question number respondant. This number is indeed a "solid" number based on "solid" mathematics. It all hinges on the exact wording of the question.

[Edited 2006-03-01 18:42:34]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Let me ask this: With 140,000 troops in place, does anyone think asked 944 of them and getting a solid answer, think this is representative of the total force?

Well of course every poll is done within a tolerance level, and this one is a rare look at a defined group that isn't often polled. I'd like to see higher numbers too, but understand the process.

I'd also like to know if these 944 were in the same unit or area of Iraq . . . several issues there:

Same Unit (Unit in this I mean Brigade or smaller): Indicates to me a leadership problem on many levels. Not the least of which is what I percieve to be bad morale, midguided reason for being there.

Same area (say, Sunni Triangle) and Different Unit: Indicates to me a that they (the troops) are likely to have been more accurately polled, in that it's a broader perspective, but - only in that area of the country. And we know the Sunni Triangle is no picnic.

On a Broader Scale: Again, indicative of a problem, but based on the total number of troops in theater, and the low number of soldiers polled, the results become suspect once again.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
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Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
On a Broader Scale: Again, indicative of a problem, but based on the total number of troops in theater, and the low number of soldiers polled, the results become suspect once again.

No they dont. See above.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
I'd also like to know if these 944 were in the same unit or area of Iraq . . . several issues there:

According to Zogby, if they told us, they'd have to kill us, but the polling does appear to be across several branches of the service, across a wide area.

Some interesting things about how the poll was conducted here:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

The survey included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq. The names of the specific locations and specific personnel who conducted the survey are being withheld for security purposes. Surveys were conducted face-to-face using random sampling techniques. The margin of error for the survey, conducted Jan. 18 through Feb. 14, 2006, is +/- 3.3 percentage points.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
It is really disturbing to see such a high level of misinformation among the ranks - the propaganda has worked overproportionally among them, it appears...!

it is indeed worrying, with only 944 polled it offers some encouragement. but it would depend how many of the other 140,000 have been so brainwashed as to think like that 85%. it is a shame that not only were we lied to they lied to the people who have to give their lives and may die believing a lie. think you need to give your government a kick up the pants for that.

very shameful indeed.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 14):
think you need to give your government a kick up the pants for that.

Why should Klaus kick the German Gov't in the pants for this poll?  silly 

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 10):
944 is not a random number. There are polling techniques used to determine sample size based on desired confidence, and margin of error.



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
The survey included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq. The names of the specific locations and specific personnel who conducted the survey are being withheld for security purposes. Surveys were conducted face-to-face using random sampling techniques. The margin of error for the survey, conducted Jan. 18 through Feb. 14, 2006, is +/- 3.3 percentage points.

Then like I said, obviously there are problems . . . problems we aren't seeing. I'd like to see the questions asked. I'd like to know the demographics of the troops asked. Were those troops fresh from the US? Had they been there 12-16 months? What are their ranks? What are their jobs. All of this will affect the results . . . a worn out infantryman, having been in country 12-13-14 months will obviously have a different answer than a Unit Supply Clerk sitting behind a desk fresh from PoDunk, Kentucky who will have a different answer than say, our friend and fellow A-Netter UH60FtRucker who flies over the crap every day . . .

I maintain that the poll is skewed in many directions. I do not dismiss it, I simply think it is incomplete. "Conducting a Poll 101" notwithstanding, I don't think they sampled enough troops. Furthermore, without knowing where the samples were taken, it lends to more inaccuracies. Were these polls conducted in Bahgdad where shit blows up every day? Were they conducted along the Iraq/Kuwaiti border where some bored Motor Sergeant watches convoy after convoy after convoy and may be under the impression that things are relatively normal and quiet now??? Way too many variables for it to be considered accurate.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Were those troops fresh from the US? Had they been there 12-16 months? What are their ranks? What are their jobs. All of this will affect the results

I do actually agree with your sentiments about how the poll was conducted, that's the first thing I question when I look at a set of numbers. It seems to be wide-ranging, but everything comes down to "whom do you trust?"

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Then like I said, obviously there are problems . . . problems we aren't seeing.

And that's what I'm wondering. What is it we aren't seeing, and are there problems we can correct, or is it too late. It would seem to me that having a defined purpose clearly laid out to our forces abroad would bring about the desired solution faster. Even "we have to prevent civil war" instead of "to retaliate for 9/11" would be cause for different behavior, I would think.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Something more about how the polling was conducted that I somehow missed on the first reading of the link at Zogby:

Three quarters of the troops had served multiple tours and had a longer exposure to the conflict: 26% were on their first tour of duty, 45% were on their second tour, and 29% were in Iraq for a third time or more.

There's a bit more explanation of the polling results in a piece by John Zogby at tompaine.com today:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/200...03/01/a_letter_from_the_troops.php

This bit was interesting:

To control the insurgency, a majority of respondents (53 percent) said the U.S. should double both the number of troops and bombing missions, an option absolutely no one back in Washington is considering.

Reservists were most enthusiastic about using bombing runs and a doubling of ground troops to counter the enemy, with 70 percent agreeing that would work to control the insurgency. Among regular Army respondents, 48 percent favored more troops and bombing, and 47 percent of Marines agreed. However, 36 percent of Marines said they were uncertain that strategy would work, compared to just 9 percent of regular Army, 6 percent of National Guard respondents, and 2 percent of reservists who said they were not sure.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

I would love to see the questions . . . .

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/200...03/01/a_letter_from_the_troops.php

Something that catches my eye here . . .

The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies,

Did the Center for Peace and Global Studies commission the poll and have Zogby International Conduct it . . . using questions generated by the Center? A poll is only as good as it's questions and audience. While Zogby is a reasonably respected, bipartisan organization - what about the Center? And Zogby undoubtedly got paid to execute the poll . . . they will certainly ask what they are told to ask. How bi-partisan and independent can they be?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, only to provide another point of view . . . just like any poll, the questions asked - and the context in whichthey are asked - will determine the answer . . . regardless of how bi-partisan or independent the poll purports to be.

Now, here's something I'm concerned about:

The troops have drawn different conclusions about fellow citizens back home. Asked why they think some Americans favor rapid U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, 37 percent of troops serving there said those Americans are unpatriotic, while 20 percent believe people back home don’t believe a continued occupation will work. Another 16 percent said they believe those favoring a quick withdrawal do so because they oppose the use of the military in a pre-emptive war, while 15 percent said they do not believe those Americans understand the need for the U.S. troops in Iraq.

At 55 percent, reservists serving in Iraq were most likely to see those back home as unpatriotic for wanting a rapid withdrawal, while 45 percent of Marines and 33 percent of members of the regular Army agreed.


I don't consider non-support for this war as unpatriotic, and I'm disturbed that so many soldier think it is . . . but once again, what was the question asked that provided this answer. Was it a multiple choice? Did it ask: "Of the people in the States that oppose the war, you say they are. . . " A) Unpatriotic; B) Oppose the Military; C) Don't Support the Troops; D) All of the Above. See . . . it's all in the context of the question and how it's asked, and what the possible answers could be. I just pulled that quickly outta my ass (as you can tell) and it could be a valid poll question . . .

I'd like to see the poll itself.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Did the Center for Peace and Global Studies commission the poll and have Zogby International Conduct it . . . using questions generated by the Center?

I dug a little deeper, and Le Moyne appears to be a Jesuit college, if that means anything. They have a similar press release on their website, but not the actual questions used, that I've been able to find.

http://www.lemoyne.edu/index.asp



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
They have a similar press release on their website, but not the actual questions used,

All the more, personally, I'm suspect of the poll and the questions. The more I read into this, the more I'm prepared to wave the  redflag  on a few things.

Really want to see the questions . . . .


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2307 times:
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Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
I don't think they sampled enough troops

False! They did. Understand. 944 is correct.

You can doubt the questions, intent, population, polling methods, timing etc. but 944 IS a correct sample number



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 21):
False! They did. Understand. 944 is correct.

You can doubt the questions, intent, population, polling methods, timing etc. but 944 IS a correct sample number

I heard you the first time.

I disagree with you. You'll have to live with that. Or not.

. . . . .

I want to see the questions.

I e-mailed the College requesting a copy of the questions on the poll. Let's see if I a) get a positive answer; b) get a negative answer or c) get no answer.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2289 times:
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Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
I heard you the first time.

I disagree with you. You'll have to live with that. Or not.

You also have to live with the fact that you are wrong. I can prove it if you want me to.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 23):
You also have to live with the fact that you are wrong. I can prove it if you want me to.

Won't be the first time I'm wrong . . . and I still disagree . . . if you feel the need to "prove" it, have at it. But, if said proof is one of your theories not something I can "put a finger on" then please refrain. Otherwise, it'd be interesting - go for it.

Too many variables in the poll, and until I see the questions, if I ever do, I'm suspect of it's accuracy for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is the number of troops polled.


25 BHXFAOTIPYYC : I get sick of polls and statistics. They are extremely easy to manipulate depending on just who is asking the question. Good recent example of that wa
26 Mt99 : Im sure its not the first time you are wrong. The proof is not "my" theory. I didn't invent it. What can "you put a finger on" ? Lets try this. You s
27 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Not at all, I suggest not a large enough number of troops were queried . . . I understand . . . and respectfully - I would prefer to more of the troo
28 Mt99 : Hate to be picky - but hey im bored! If the results yielded 73% say YES and 74% say NO.. then yes.. a 3% margin is not acceptable. But in this case t
29 Post contains images 11Bravo : Anyone here who has even a basic level of understanding about statistical sampling methods and analysis methods can plainly see that you're out of yo
30 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Look Grunt, I never said I was a statistician and I looked at and learned from the info Mt99 posted. And I appreciate his efforts. At least I can say
31 DL021 : I'd like to see the questions asked by the poll. It's easy to force a conclusion depending on the context and direction of the entire poll.
32 Gary2880 : ill be happy for people to join me in the ignorant corner because im totally lost. sounds interesting and informative but im still lost Signed. Willin
33 AeroWesty : I've actually enjoyed the facts and figures going back and forth, reminds me of my days at Cal studying how polls are taken and results interpreted i
34 11Bravo : I don't have any funny papers handy. It will be hard to work sans Transmission Authentication Tables. Regardless of how you do that, it won't change
35 ANCFlyer : I said as much . . . but my concern is the Center for Peace and Global Studies . . . if they paid for said poll, it makes me wonder about the content
36 VSLover : here is an issue of interpretation--while some are shocked as this number and how the propaganda machine of the government is clearly working, this s
37 11Bravo : I always thought it was fun. Kinda like Ralphie and his decoder wheel. When I was a Corporal, we had this one platoon Sgt. who would put us in a shel
38 Gary2880 : polls can be tricky beggers, and i agree with anc the questions should be published as things can be totally distorted depending on which questions yo
39 ANCFlyer : Someone's Mother would write their Congressman about that in today's world . . . damned if i don't miss the 'real' Army . . . Excellent Gary. Exactly
40 Gary2880 : aw shucks. yes ive always liked that quote because he gives rational answers to normal questions yet they still manage to give totally different resu
41 Boeing7E7 : You'll be shocked to here this, but I couldn't wait to retire a couple of months ago from the reserves. I'd had enough. Where we right to go? Yes. Ar
42 B757300 : This is a Zogby poll so you can be sure it was a loaded question. The only polls with less credibility are from CBS. (Their poll the other day was so
43 A332 : Oh whatever... if the Zogby poll ended up stating that a majority of troops in Iraq support "staying the course" you'd be singing a different tune...
44 DC10GUY : Sounds like the liberal media is finally seeing their desired effect take shape. Zapping the moral of the american soldiers. Its must be tough for our
45 ANCFlyer : And from no where, comes nothing . . . I told you Westy we all have to sleep sometime . . . . Moral = Morale . . .
46 Post contains images AeroWesty : I was wondering about that. Jesuits = New Liberal Media.
47 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Does to pay to actually READ the source document . . . eh??
48 UH60FtRucker : God damn it. After the most stressful night since arriving here, I came on here thinking I could un-wind and de-stress. Well after reading this thread
49 AeroWesty : First off, as I've said before, thank you for your service. Second off, if you read this thread as you said you did, I've not said one disparaging wo
50 Post contains images ANCFlyer : I believe what my friend UH60 is saying is essentially the same that I and a few others have said . . . Lets see the questions asked before we go off
51 STLGph : Ok, I don't. Not even that. I just plainly don't care about a totally unnecessary regime in Vietraq. No, what doesn't jive is better-than-thou-for-a-
52 Klaus : Hold your horses, please! No, I don't criticize the men and women serving in the US military (or any other) for doing their jobs as best they can (an
53 UH60FtRucker : I've gotten some rest, and since I am on a mandatory 24hr rest period, I've had some time to rethink what I said earlier. I regret some of the things
54 Klaus : No need to apologize, really; What you said about the background of your earlier post was basically what I had guessed anyway, so I didn't take it per
55 Post contains links and images Gary2880 : dear dear me. i'm glad i was asleep during all of that. would hate to think of the ban i would have got replying in the way i was going to before i go
56 AeroWesty : Good, hope you're feeling better. Maybe you're up for some questions. At the time you signed up, what was your reason? To find WMDs, to retaliate for
57 Post contains images ANCFlyer : FYI . . . I have recieved no response to date from the College . . . . I will send a follow on request for the content of the Poll today.
58 UH60FtRucker : Anytime, any question. Joining the Army was just something I always wanted to do. Finding out that I loved flying, and deciding to go Warrant and app
59 StuckinMAF : Suggest we lock the thread since the guy with the boots on the ground has spoken.
60 ANCFlyer : Ahhh, Shinseki's words are coming back to haunt Dumsfeld and company: "Beware the Twelve Division Strategy with a Ten Division Army!" Dumsfeld, the a
61 AeroWesty : UH60, appreciate your answers. I'm not quite understanding this one though. My question was what did you think your job is there, and is it different
62 Post contains links and images UH60FtRucker : Check out this video of what us in the 101st are doing here in Iraq: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...id=2506838439077611117&q=hero+iraq Here ar
63 Traindriver : UH60FtRucker, Thanks for sharing your pictures and your feelings with us. Thanks for your sacrifice....you, your comrades and your families are in my
64 StuckinMAF : Ditto, couldn't have said it better myself!
65 L-188 : I am impressed, but I still would feel better if you where in a Huey that had been insulted like that. This past summer I worked behind a guy that sp
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