KaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1587 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 674 times:
Hey Mx5, I know its a horrible thought. but the situation is serious in our nation. I dont think Australia has to much to worry about. However here in America we are still the prime focus of terrorism, sad but true. from my point of view for what its worth, I dont think anyone knows what to expect next, if anything. The reason for my view is simple. We have had bombings of airplanes, buildings, etc before. That is always the typical terrorist act right? I hardly doubt anyone of us could ever imagine such a horrific act to be played out like what occured on september 11th as it did. I feel that if there is to be retaliation's in the future it will be highly unexpected.
However, I doubt that any terrorist plans will be focused toward aviation to be used as weapons of mass destruction again. Sadly that weakness has allready been exposed. Basically all that we can do as civilans is pray that god will be with all of those fighting for our worlds freedom and peace, as well as a safe home for all of us during these times.
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 656 times:
That is whole thing about Terrorist strikes - you really don't know what they are going to do. Whilst I realise you guys in the USA are going to be prime targets I really don't understand why many people think that Australia would not be a target. We were one of the first to stand up with the USA (Including the UK) and give our unwavering support. We have also been warned publically by international experts not to be complacent either.
I sure hope we don't ever see anything like Sept 11 again but if they were able to organise something like that so well - then anything is possible huh?
KaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1587 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 644 times:
I would say there are a few reasons why people feel Australia isnt such a prime target compared to the U.S. or the UK. Just a couple reasons why I think Australia shouldnt be too nervous. It has been declared from Osama Bin Laden that he has a pure hate for Israeli and Americans. From what has been reported here, his hate for us has been since the Persian gulf war. Due to our presence in his home land of Saudi Arabia. Horrible reason to want to kill eh? Another reason is due to what just happend in Afghanistan with the attacks. The strongest of any retalitions will obviously be focused on America or the UK. If Australia does share efforts with any attacks, then you can imagine retaliations might be sent that direction as well. however just this point of view doesnt mean other countries are in the clear from attacks. After 9/11 attacks, anything is possible.
As you stated before, with terrorist attacks you dont know what to expect. It is good that Australia is aware that safety is at risk there as well as around the world.
Also its great to know we have such a strong world wide show of unity. Especially great having Australia (my favourite country) stand up for America, and what is right! I hope we all will remain safe, happy, and never have to suffer due to such evil again!
Cpdc10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4761 posts, RR: 25 Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 645 times:
My father is rather pessimistic and assumes that tactical nukes have already been planted in many western cities and are simply waiting the detonation sequence. I don't think it would be possible to have acquired that many weapons, but I think it is certainly possible that bin Laden posesses a handful...espescially considering the fact that fissionable materials have been intercepted by authorties on many occasions (most famously in Germany), but you have to wonder how many have fell through the cracks.
Even more worrying is the possibility that Pakistan's present government could be overthrown by a radical fundamentalist power who would provide that country's nuclear assistance and supplies to terrorist forces.
However, you have to understand that despite the cruelty of the term, the events of Sept. 11 were MADE FOR TV. Everyone was gripped in horror while watching smoke billow from the gaping hole in the WTC to see yet another hijacked airliner turned into a weapon of mass destruction. Poisoning water supplies or releasing NBCW agents doesn't provide such an opportunity.
Mx5_boy, I understand your uneasiness...Indonesia isn't too far away and has been mentioned as a hotbed for bin Laden's networks. Thanks goodness your country has excellent armed forces. Canada (Montreal or less likely Toronto) would likely be a secondary target if further attacks are thwarted in the US.
Unfortunatley, we've only seen the beginning of this war.
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 628 times:
If the terrorists had nukes they would have used them by now. Waiting around gives them more time to be caught. That's why I think we are overreacting to what might happen next. In hindsight the WTC atrocity was very avoidable - the methods used by the hijackers were very crude and basic and it was security that failed. It won't happen again, and there is no way we will allow these people to get chemical/nuclear weapons.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 619 times:
I think you are being a little naive there. Already Australians are being called back home from Indonesia and have been warned from travelling there.
Here is an example of how easy it would be to hijack an express train in Sydney. The security checks for becoming a train driver would not be that great, they are more concerned that you would be 'clean' of alcohol and drungs and able to operate a train. (Even though the olympics would have meant police checks - most of these fanatics would appear as ordinary citizens.)
Our major trunk route in Sydney is between Redfern and Strathfield (about 8kms of track with 6 lines running high speed and parrallel - 110km/h). The trains that run along this line are packed 8 car double deck suburban trains carrying around 1,500 to 2,000 pax out to the suburbs. Probably running in both directions only 60 second separation along this stretch. (One of the busiest in the world) (Cityrail moves about 380 million people a year - around a 1/3 of transport trips in Sydney a day.)
It wouldn't take much for a driver to pump up the speed and 'pick' a section or points where going too fast would instantaneously derail the train. Given that there are trains running in both directions, fast, crowded it doesn't take 2 + 2 to work out how easily it would be to maim and kill a couple of thousand people quite easily and throw this city's transport infrastructure into chaos.
I don't have a morbid mind but am well aware the potential for disaster - if I can work it out surely others can. Half the time the cab doors to the drivers compartments are left open or unlocked. I am unaware of any special security that has been taken either.
My office building is now on 'secure alert' - it is one of the most prominent in the city - being right on the harbour at Circular Quay and housing the British and Italian consulates. Police cars were parked around the building all day. It difficult to sit for too long in the office without looking out the window on a constant basis - if you get my drift.
As for the nukes, well never be surprised what people will come up with. The internet is a wealth of information. You have to remember the type of people we are dealing with here. Religious zealots with an evil "we will show you" twist. Terrorism is about demoralisation, destabalisation of the general public / infrastructure.
Again it is with hope that we won't see any more attrocities but I doubt that. Casualties are going to be big and great number. Bin Laden and his cronies have been building up to this for a number of years and so much must already be in place. (Although I hope not.)
When you have people who are prepared to die for a cause the difference is the entire rules are changed. Remember the Japanese kamikasi pilots of WWII? Well the people we are dealing with now are ten times worse.
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 613 times:
I don't think so. I think we have a propensity for making things seem worse than they really are (blame the media). These strikes will make it harder for terrorists to operate, and after Afghanisatn I can't think of any other states who would allow terrorists to train there knowingly. Plus intelligence would be focused on getting them.
If the West is careful, and adapts its foreign policy to make it a little more equitable in the Middle East then the desire to terrorise will dissipate. Also, Israel is a bigger terrorist target than even the USA (the UK is an unlikely target and forget Australia - the Worldwide impact on an attack on Oz would be far too small compared to a US attack). If Israel has yet to be nuked/hit by chemical weapons then you can be sure those weapons don't exist in terrorist hands yet.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
Heavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 596 times:
Osama brags that America is living in fear. I guess the son of a bitch is right.
First off, let's remember that a Boeing 767 could be considered a weapon of mass destruction now. Let's remember (and it's difficult I know) how obscenely low tech the attacks of September 11th were.
'Briefcase' atomic bombs aren't something a bunch of religious school dropouts are going to be able to build in a garage. That's just not going to happen. In fact I've read Osama tried to buy black market weapons grade materials from the Russian Mob a few years ago. They got his money, and he got a few pounds of useless uranium slag.
Biological agents are more common, but again, they have to be specially modified to be delivered in an effective way. Frequently this modification process renders the organism ineffective. Plus, our hospitals are on highest alert...look what happened here in Palm Beach County....within three hours of arrival , they had pegged an elderly gentleman as having a non contagious form of anthrax. Many doctors in the area said if they hadnt been on alert, they would have probably written it off as menengitis.
Chemicals are the easiest to make and smuggle. They are also the easiest to screw up. Look at the Tokyo subway Sarin gas attack....thousands of people in a small, low ventilation confined area....a nightmare scenario, yet there were only 11 deaths....why? The chemicals had been mixed improperly. And I'd venture to assume that the Japanese cult that pulled it off has a more formidible brain trust than al Qaeda.
I'm not underestimating my enemy....the armed Coast Guard vessels patrolling the waters off my town and the coasts of America need to stay there. For Good.
And if it takes you 5 hours to clear international customs at a US airport, tough.
But I won't allow these scumbags to claim responsibility for every scary thing on the planet. The fact is my enemies are just flesh and blood men, and that means they are as mortal as me.
JetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 577 times:
Honestly, I think if terrorists had such an item like a briefcase nuke or bio weapons, I think they would save them for Isreal, not USA. I seriously doubt even that will happen.
I do think they will attempt to hit the USA with conventional terrorism on the mainland, but whether they succeed is another story. My guess would be a professional sporting event. It's televised, has 20,000+ people crammed in a small space. Sports certainly has symbolic meaning in America. I know we had warbirds patrolling the skies over the NFL games, but I'm concerned about an obscure NHL or NBA late season game when we start to relax our guard. I am GREATLY concerned this will be attempted.
KaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1587 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 532 times:
well we all seem to agree on one thing. That is nobody knows what to expect. Some think its no big deal since we have started attacks, others fear there could be even worse attacks from terrorists. All logical ideas in my mind. Anything is possible. It would be great to know we will live in peace after these attacks in Afghanistan. However when the United States of America has been issued a 100% chance of another terrorist strike from our own leaders... thats not to good to hear. Mx5 has Australia announced any sort of odds of being attacked or not? Well anyways... sure it might be an over statement to give 100% chance of retaliation's. However things are different now then a couple months ago. I will take those odds seriously. However I am sure you all agree we cant live in fear. We will continue with our daily lifes. All that is left for us to do, is to sit back and watch it unwind.
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 518 times:
We have been warned by International experts not to be complacent in thinking that Australia is isolated enough to 'miss' out on such attacks. Airports are at securtity levels greater than when the Olympics were on and security all over in general has been beefed up.
All mosque's and synagog's in Sydney are currently being watched by police. The government has been advised that Al Queda operates cells in this country amongst other terrorist groups.
Other than that information - we had a bomb scare at our one and only Nuclear Reactor (Lucas Heights) which produces isotopes for medical purposes and study.
Not that I want to see anymore strikes, however I would prefer it to happen now than in 2 years time when the world is not as suspsecting.