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Dutch Consider Banning Public Use Of Burqas  
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...US-RELIGION-DUTCH-BURQA.xml&rpc=22

For a culture that prides itself on tolerance, this seems very close minded.

156 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2595 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Their justification for it is well argued, but sadly I can imagine a lot of Dutch flags burning if this goes ahead.

Still, I say they go for it.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting Pope (Thread starter):
this seems very close minded.

Hmm, a Belgian town banned burqas under existing laws that require people to be readily identifiable. No outrage there that I've seen. But the man who proposed this in the Netherlands has to live under heavy guard. I wonder what this says about the Dutch muslims if this is the case.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Where I see a disconnect in the Muslim religion is that they insist that Western women travelling in their countries honor their practices and traditions. However, they seem unwilling to respect the practices, traditional and laws of Western countries when they travel there.

User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2486 times:

Although I have never been a big supporter of the Niqab (Islam urges women to cover their body not their face and hands) I personally think that such a law should be passed with certain amendments. The banning of a hijab would show a extreme form of intolerance for a country which prouds in itself to being tolerant, but the banning of a niqab should be acceptable to the moderate Dutch Muslims. When in Rome do as the Romans Do, covering yourself from head to toe and walking on the streets of a western country contradicts that statement thoroughly.



[Edited 2006-03-07 15:51:06]


The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2464 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

I don't think this is right. The world has just been victim to riots because of some cartoons. The western world is defending these (so am I) as freedom of speech, yet the Dutch want to prohibit the use of (to Muslims) a religious practice. Do I think women should have to wear burqas? No. Do I think they should have the right to do so? Yes.

So as a matter of fairness, I think muslim women should be able to wear whatever they want, including burqas. On the other hand, I also think western women visiting muslim countries should be able to wear what they want. But let us not drop to the level of those countries, and forcing a dress code on visitors/citizens.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12118 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2457 times:
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I'm sorry though I feel our Country our rules. If you do not like it, simple solution don't relocate here.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

Here in the USA, we totally tolorate the wearing of religious clothing or coverings as perscribed by their faith in public, in public schools and even in private work places. It isn't uncommon for women to wear even burqas in public while shopping or outside or their homes in the NYC/northern New Jersey area I live in. Those of other religious faiths as well have no real restrictions as to the wearing of full clothing or symbolic items of clothing as to their faith. There is one conflicting situation where this is an issue in the USA as to where a full face picture is required for driver's licenses, passports and other photo identification where covering the face are not allowed. There was a case in the State of Florida a couple of years ago where a woman who was a Muslim would not allow a picture for her driver's license without her face covering and therefore had to be denied it. This could be the problem in Europe as well that the Dutch are now trying to deal with.
I am surprised that any European country, with almost all of them having well known past histories of religious intolarance, would even consider regulation as to what a person wears in public as to their faith. I wonder too, if such laws as in France and now proposed in The Netherlands, are in conflict with any international treaties?


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Geert Wilders, the populist member of parliament who first proposed the burqa ban, said : "The burqa is hostile to women, and medieval. For a woman to walk around on the streets completely covered is an insult to everyone who believes in equal rights."
----
He may be right in a way. The "timing" however looks rather like an act of revenge. If consequent, then the Dutch have to prohibit Jews from wearing hats, "Mediterranean" Christians from wearing "extra-size" crosses, etc . And might then also put a "clothing-police-unit" into action to survey the matter . Suggest, they build "re-education camps" in which all such women and girls are re-educated to get around in mini-skirts and minimal clothing in general -- and the "cross-wearers" to wear some kind of Dutch flag around their necks.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2433 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
though I feel our Country our rules

people who are there relocated there before now and that means BEFORE this new law. And to get "out/back" in reality is not easy or practically impossible. You apparently forget that many of the people concerned did NOT move to the Netherlands due to the romantics of the Grachten at night.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 6):
those countries, and forcing a dress code on visitors/citizens

Most of "those" countries do NOT force a dress code on visitors /citizens. Most Arabs (Muslims) in the BeNeLux-countries originate from the Maghreb, and these countries do NOT force dress codes ..... . Few Arabs in the BeNeLux originate from Saudi Arabia.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
If consequent, then the Dutch have to prohibit Jews from wearing hats, "Mediterranean" Christians from wearing "extra-size" crosses, etc .

None of the items you listed prevent people from being identified in public.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

People have the right to dress as they like seems to be the argument so I think people should be able to walk naked through London during the summer so as to keep cool  faint  but I an sure the police if you can get them away from prosecuting motorist, would take a dim view of it.
Even if you won your right to do it our Mr Blair would I am sure dream up way to tax you for doing it

little vc10


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
prevent people from being identified in public

neither does the HIJAB (see under post #5 )


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14):
neither does the HIJAB (see under post #5 )

Where is this being proposed to be banned in the Netherlands? I only read "face veils" not "head scarves".



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
If consequent, then the Dutch have to prohibit Jews from wearing hats, "Mediterranean" Christians from wearing "extra-size" crosses, etc .

None of the items you listed prevent people from being identified in public.

But identification of individuals is not the basis of this ban on the Burkha. The ban is based on a perceived degradation of women who don the burkha. And, of course, it is degradation of women, but to create a ban on the burkha on civil rights grounds will be a tough case to make. In any case, even if the Dutch parliament decides that they will make an exception for a full burkha, why should Muslims complain? They can still wear head scarves, a hijab, etc.


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 5):
The banning of a hijab would show a extreme form of intolerance for a country which prouds in itself to being tolerant, but the banning of a niqab should be acceptable to the moderate Dutch Muslims. When in Rome do as the Romans Do, covering yourself from head to toe and walking on the streets of a western country contradicts that statement thoroughly.

Very Well said. You can be conservative and religious and at the same time Identifiable in public.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
Most of "those" countries do NOT force a dress code on visitors /citizens. Most Arabs (Muslims) in the BeNeLux-countries originate from the Maghreb, and these countries do NOT force dress codes ..... . Few Arabs in the BeNeLux originate from Saudi Arabia.

In Jerusalem, there is no mandatory dress code enforced on visitors/citizens. A lot of muslim residents do wear the Hijab. On the other hand, we have tourists from all over the world who walk around the old city wearing shorts and tank tops (yes females!). Having said that, i have to note that you can wear anything you want anywhere except in Religious places. If you want to enter a church or a mosque to visit or to pray you have to cover up simply because it is more respectful.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
But identification of individuals is not the basis of this ban on the Burkha. The ban is based on a perceived degradation of women who don the burkha.

That's correct. In Belgium, it was banned on an existing law that all persons must be identifiable in public.

If it wasn't too far of a stretch for the U.S. Supreme Court to give military recruiters a carte blanche to violate a campus' bans on employers who discriminate against gays and lesbians due to an overriding "need to raise armies", there should be no problem, if the Netherlands wishes to do so, to enact a similar law as Belgium has, and be done with it. It accomplishes the same thing and still allows religious expression.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting VC10 (Reply 13):
People have the right to dress as they like seems to be the argument so I think people should be able to walk naked through London during the summer so as to keep cool

suggest, you pressurize your M.P. to launch a law-proposal for this in the House of Commons. Might make a little bit of a difference in those old bricks !

Quoting VC10 (Reply 13):
Mr Blair would I am sure dream up way to tax you for doing it

well, there possibly will be a "walk naked through London annoyance tax" of UK� 25.98 per person.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Where is this being proposed to be banned in the Netherlands? I only read "face veils" not "head scarves".

the text shows "and other Muslim face coverings", raising the question what a "face covering" is.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
the text shows "and other Muslim face coverings", raising the question what a "face covering" is.

Please don't tell me after all this time on the earth, you find it difficult to recognize a "face" vs. a "head".



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14060 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

There is still another point:
What about school activies for girls like sports, swimming, sexual education in biology class and class trips (with supervised overnight stay, girls in one dorm supervised by a female teacher, boys in another dorm, supervised bya male teacher)? I know that here more conservative Muslims try to have their daughters excempted from such school activities if they are coeducational and IMO this hinders the girl's education.
But there have been similar cases with some Baptist families who refused to send their children to regular schools because of sexual eduaction and evolution theory in biology class.

Jan


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
But identification of individuals is not the basis of this ban on the Burkha. The ban is based on a perceived degradation of women who don the burkha. And, of course, it is degradation of women

THIS exactly is what I had in post #9 . And fully agree. And I in general do NOT believe Muslim women declaring their wearing of such gear as being "their own will" and their "showing to be Muslim" as it in general simply is the will of their husbands, their fathers, their families.
-

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
even if the Dutch parliament decides that they will make an exception for a full burkha, why should Muslims complain? They can still wear head scarves, a hijab, etc.

absolutely correct
-

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
you find it difficult to recognize a "face" vs. a "head".

I have no problem with that. But I first do NOT know the real law-text and second how the Dutch will interpret their law and third HOW they will put it into practice.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 21):
sports, swimming,

particularily SWIMMING is important, and European schools should not yield on that, except maybe to have classes "split" into the boys-section and the girls-section just as it happens (well at least DID happen) for geometric drawing and, at least in "upper" schools sports. But again, that also Muslim girls have swimming (and sports) is important. The death-toll each summer along European lakes (more than along the seashores, amazingly) includes overproportinally many people from Mediterranean countries and MiddleEastern countries who canNOT swim.


User currently offlineKay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

In 500 years, Islamic women will be what Christian women are today. No offense intended as I have alot of friends in both religions.

So I guess that makes me for the riddance of this ridicule attirage.

Kay

PS: I have a strong opinion because everytime I see a covered woman head to toe, my beliefs have been insulted.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Quoting Kay (Reply 24):
my beliefs have been insulted.

what then are your beliefs ? just wondering !  Big grin big grin

[Edited 2006-03-07 19:08:01]

25 Emirates773ER : A very bold statement, but I seriously doubt it. You must understand that many muslim women do not wear a hijab b/c they are forced to but b/c they w
26 SWISSER : Amazing how well aware you guys are of our laws! This law was mainly focused on events in the 80's when Belgium suffered from the KKK and the gang of
27 LH477 : How so. Frankly, I don't understand the reasons for Hijab/Niqab/Burqa's. I chalk it up to my own ignorance. If a women decides that she want's to cov
28 ME AVN FAN : well, it depends. Some Hijabs look quite nice while others just look like dark shopping bags or potato bags so that you do NOT feel attracted ?
29 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Personally, I don't give two shits about whether or not they ban burqas. I think that they can do whatever they want for their own country. If the po
30 Post contains links and images Emirates773ER : http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...yaa%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D I am in favour of the above too and they usually are in fashion. Not at all
31 AeroWesty : Hmm, a few weeks ago, ME AVN FAN made the argument that this creates homo- and bi-sexual relationships at a higher number than in western cultures.
32 Post contains images Emirates773ER : You obviously have'nt read a lot of my previous posts on this topic.
33 Post contains images AeroWesty : I certainly have, I'm just making the point in case you'd like to dispute his findings.
34 Emirates773ER : I have never frakly looked into the matter.
35 Emirates773ER : I have never frankly looked into the matter.
36 QR332 : Correction: One country does, Saudi Arabia. Even though all other Arab countries allow women to dress as they like, they are still conservative count
37 Post contains images RobertNL070 : A little wave of my Dutch flag here. First off, the thread title is a tad misleading: a decision to ban the wearing of burqas in public has yet to be
38 JAGflyer : Is a Burqas really "used" rather than worn?
39 Post contains images Emirates773ER : I agree but do you think the west is going to listen to our demands? Sucide bombers, 9/11, 7/7 will at once be brought into the light along with the
40 AeroWesty : Probably because they're ARE demands. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
41 Scbriml : I agree 100%. However, in a traditional Muslim society, the decision is likely to be taken by the woman's husband/father/brother.
42 Smokescreen : This proposed law is ridiculous. For any country that considers itself to be liberal and western to pass such a measure is offensive. People can wear
43 Emirates773ER : Yes they are b/c the people demanding are citizens of that country.
44 Usnseallt82 : Yeah..........a worldwide religion founded on the teachings of peace is used to attack the views of others who decide to draw silly cartoons. Go figu
45 Comorin : I am TOTALLY against the wearing of Burqas in the Red Light District. This is really taking matters too far! It will be difficult to judge the girls i
46 Post contains images N229NW : I always found it amusing when I was living in London in a neighborhood with many Muslims, how many young Muslim women wore black headscarves with ve
47 767Lover : Legalized pot and prostitution does not a tolerant society make.
48 DL021 : Can I go to Messina or Mecca and wear a crucifix?
49 ME AVN FAN : True, the question however is how the Dutch authorities will interpret it, and how it is supervised, and of what kind any possible prosecution may be
50 Jafa39 : Should take the heat off Denmark for a while! I believe that "When in Rome..." especially when "Rome" requires one to inconvenience oneself when there
51 Post contains images Scorpio : I'm going to guess you mean CCC, and not KKK The KKK is the Ku Klux Klan, and they never blew up anything in Belgium that I know of
52 Post contains images QR332 : Very ture... and people will continue to ignore that these are just a minority of Muslims. I wasn't attacking you, I was simply stating that it is no
53 Schoenorama : What is REALLY close minded is taking for granted something the Dutch Cabinet is still CONSIDERING. For the sake of the discussion you apparently wan
54 Jush : And don't think it is narrow minded. As long it goes for head to toe coverings which are a desgrace for any women. If they would forbid wearing a head
55 ME AVN FAN : - I am against such bans, just as I oppose embargoes and boycotts. Such things do NOT help matters forward. But the Dutch, since this Mr VanGogh got
56 Emirates773ER : Concur.
57 DL021 : Well, their "lust for revenge" for a brutal murder certainly seems to pale against the worldwide Muslim "lust for revenge" as regards certain cartoon
58 AeroWesty : Kind of misleading, unless you don't consider all the sexually frustrated guys getting it on "a relationship". So in your world, it's okay to ban wea
59 ME AVN FAN : the outright banning and curtailing of freedom is evident in Saudi Arabia as is NOT the case in other "Muslim dominated countries" The majority suppo
60 Schoenorama : Where's the irony in the thread-title? There is no irony there, only deception! What is ironic is that the thread-starter gives his opinion on an iss
61 AeroWesty : Every time I turn around it's "well just because it happens in Saudi Arabia, it isn't representative", or "well just because the law is on the books,
62 DL021 : Schoeniepoo....relax a little...it was not the title but the quote you posted where I saw irony. Holland is well known for tolerance and inclusivity.
63 Emirates773ER : Bizarre? Do you have a reason for banning it? A valid one? Can I ask why there are no mosques in vatican city? It has been said numerous times, Medin
64 AeroWesty : We're not talking about why there isn't a church in Medina. We're talking about why wearing a cross wouldn't be acceptable to wear there. You could w
65 Usnseallt82 : You do realize that you have the "right" to do many things in life, but whether or not those decisions are prudent is another story altogether. You m
66 Emirates773ER : As I said not a tourist destination, a place crowded with millions of muslims and you want to wear a crucifix and go sight seeing? By the way I would
67 AeroWesty : The point is, that you continually keep losing sight of, is that it would be acceptable for you to do so.
68 Kay : I think there is a bigger picture here that summarizes everything: 1- The west isn't comfortable with Islam. It has been reflected through these littl
69 Usnseallt82 : But you feel more than comfortable to wear a turban and have your wife wear her burqa through an airport. You don't think that makes people uncomfort
70 ME AVN FAN : the trouble with you basically is that you regard Saudi Arabia as "THE model" while it is an exceptional case in many many many respects. You make st
71 AeroWesty : Nope, got that wrong. I just quote what you folks write. I've never been further east than Vienna, and can't quote from personal experience.
72 Emirates773ER : Jeez! What a beautifull assumption, stereotype any muslim who speaks his mind to be a extremist. Did I ever say that I make my sister or mother wear
73 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Apparently everything I said went completely over your head and right through your window facing Mecca. Get a hold of yourself. You're not making you
74 Post contains images Emirates773ER : Sorry but I got confused with your argument, thought you were refering to women wearing the burqa being forced too. As for you feeling uncomfortable
75 DL021 : I fully agree with part 1 of your premise. Secular state government is the only reasonable manner to run a government. All religions are protected an
76 Post contains images FDXMECH : You're just copying Cheryl David.
77 AeroWesty : Hmm, just earlier today people who had any disagreement with what goes on in muslim countries were being written off as having a case of "islamophobi
78 Post contains links and images Usnseallt82 : This probably is a lost cause, but why not... Do you think I give a rat's ass who you ask to wear what in your family? When I said this... I was comm
79 AeroWesty : Okay, so as you have the option to look the other way when you see two homos. More pot, kettle, black. BTW, why is it that you and your father have a
80 Emirates773ER : The society does not accept it, just like it is not accepted in many US states. Plus I don't see how you can compare a burqa to a gay? Now we can't h
81 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : What in the hell are you talking about? Do you seriously try to make as little sense as humanly possible? B744F, is that you? What the flaming hell a
82 Usnseallt82 : The fact that you don't get this is why you don't understand a single thing that anyone is saying. Until you realize the connection here, you are a l
83 Emirates773ER : Filler.[Edited 2006-03-08 18:59:55]
84 Emirates773ER : Sure a women wearing a burqa in Denmark and two gays in Dubai who want to book a room, beautifull connection.
85 AeroWesty : Oh dear me, please list the US states where homosexuality is illegal. Go ahead, name em. One by one. I'll wait. We were talking about what you feel c
86 Emirates773ER : I said not accepted by the society, no laws included. Surely I don't need to point out the states for that? Again, how are you comparing this? A wome
87 Jush : Whooo, dude. In my opinion you're crossing the line. But it's not only you. The whole thread has gotten a bit too personal for me. There is no good d
88 AeroWesty : Sure you do, in the muslim world, whether actively prosecuted or not, there are laws against homosexuality on the books. Laws are the product of soci
89 Post contains links Emirates773ER : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States I used this link as a source. If some information is faulty do point it out?
90 Emirates773ER : Straight guys have "gorgeous asses " as well.
91 AeroWesty : From your link: "In the 2003 case before the Supreme Court of the United States titled Lawrence v. Texas, the court held that intimate consensual sex
92 ME AVN FAN : he certainly provides you the requested list of US-states as soon as if you show actual existing LAWS in Arab countries, prohibiting homosexuality. M
93 Post contains images AeroWesty : I wouldn't say that out loud in public in the wrong country, if I were you. You could be up for hormonal treatments.
94 AeroWesty : I refer you to my Reply #93.
95 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : As are most of your posts thus far. Yeah..........the whole damn link is wrong. Aerowesty didn't say anything about which states allow gay marriage,
96 Emirates773ER : Refer too: You obviously don't know much about arab laws, you cannot be prosecuted unless you are involved in such a act in public like weddings or p
97 Emirates773ER : "Sixteen states have constitutional amendments explicitly barring the recognition of same-sex marriage, confining civil marriage to a legal union bet
98 AeroWesty : Again, you two work it out. Come back with a consensus. Just contradicting each other is an embarassment, it really is.
99 AeroWesty : I am not going to equate the "sanctity of marriage" debate with "gays being frowned upon". There are no laws in the U.S. against being homosexual. Mo
100 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : sorry, but as far as I got it, it was YOU who stated that there were laws in the countries of the Arab World against homosexuality. And it was him wh
101 AeroWesty : Dude, work it out amongst yourselves. I've told you before, I just quote what you guys tell me. Obviously we've had discussions on this before, and t
102 ME AVN FAN : his statement does/did NOT mean a law against homosexuality, but laws against "public disturbance" "undecent offensive behaviours" "public embarassme
103 Post contains images QR332 : It is bigger than a few cartoons, and you know this. It is the fact that the West preaches freedom of speech while in many European countries, I can
104 AeroWesty : They're things I read right here. I can drag up the tired old posts later if you'd like. "Laws against homosexuality" would include hormonal treatmen
105 Post contains links AeroWesty : While waiting for my appointment to show up, I located this in my bookmarks: The Homosexuality World Map (by CometII Feb 16 2006 in Non Aviation) Com
106 ME AVN FAN : look at the TEXT. It shows "homosexual partnerships" as a recognized title. It does NOT mean that there really are actual laws. The problem for homos
107 Post contains links AeroWesty : I refer you to: UAE...Not Quite That Open I Guess (by Johnboy Nov 26 2005 in Non Aviation) Emirates773ER - Reply #1: "Serves them right! Planning on
108 Emirates773ER : I actually agree with ME AVN FAN on that, I think the men were arrested on charges mentioned above and then referred to a sharia court.
109 Post contains links Emirates773ER : "The men are likely to be tried under Muslim law on charges related to adultery and prostitution, said Interior Ministry spokesman Issam Azouri." http
110 AeroWesty : Expand on that then. State whether sharia law is the law of the UAE or not. Come to a consensus.
111 ME AVN FAN : as explained before, the laws used in that case were NOT laws about homosexuality as such the problems were > gay marriage (NOT just homosexuality) >
112 Post contains links AeroWesty : That's nice. Now a little help for you to determine if there are laws on the books in the UAE outlawing homosexuality: According to the government of
113 Emirates773ER : Homosexual acts are also considered to be adultery, thus if you were to be caught (which would be highly unusual unless you were making a big deal ou
114 Post contains links AeroWesty : http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20060214/...o_po/unitedarabemiratesjails11gays "In November, the Emirates' Interior Ministry said it would be giving the a
115 Post contains images Jafa39 : At last! Just when I thought a.net was becoming stale and boring, people are getting stuck into each other again...I may delay my self-deletion for a
116 Post contains images Emirates773ER : Docotors orders.
117 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Here the official thing : - United Arab Emirates 3. The Judicial System To maintain harmony between them the Emirates were given the constitutional r
118 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : EXACTLY THIS ! but apparently difficult stuff for some people - may help people to become "straight" --- and may result in nice children !
119 AeroWesty : In my reading of this, I would have to say that yes, the UAE would invoke Shariah law over acts of homosexuality in the state. Correct me if I'm wron
120 AeroWesty : If I was the religious sort, I'd offer you god's help for when the muslim world has it's very own Stonewall. From the looks of it, you're going to ne
122 ME AVN FAN : "its very own Stonewall" ?????? can you explain what you mean ????
123 Post contains links AeroWesty : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots
124 Emirates773ER : Intresting peace of history.
125 Emirates773ER : Interesting peace of history.
126 ME AVN FAN : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewa...riots Thanks for the info. Strange that virtually nothing of that was reported "overseas" about
127 Post contains images AeroWesty : Glad to be of service. In general, the queens don't go quietly when enough is enough.
128 Windshear : AeroWesty let Emirates773ER and ME AVN FAN be. The fact that we in the west have such backward minded people living here, is a disgrace, look what the
129 ME AVN FAN : how do you mean that, "rape all the contents" ? and why that hostile outburst of anger ?
130 Windshear : Pure and simple the view you blurt out constantly, and especially towards gay people. You have insulted me on all fronts. Boaz.
131 Kay : We have to hope that there are out there some senior muslim leaders who know that deep within themselves. There most likely will not be mass extermin
132 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : insulted ? why ? how ? what view ? and my view towards gay people ? I think my view towards gay people is absolutely liberal and tolerant
133 Windshear : I see your view as the oposite. Thinking you are good does not make one person good! Boaz.
134 ME AVN FAN : well, I always favoured/favour full freedom, also for gays. And I favour their right for marriage. I favour same rights for women. I advocate total f
135 AeroWesty : Here's my read on it. In this and the other thread about a gay couple getting one bed in a hotel room in Dubai, there've been a lot of things about m
136 ME AVN FAN : it would be A) a law against Islam, and B) a law against the freedom of religion, and C) highly discriminatory of course, but this also applies to ot
137 AeroWesty : Then you would have to accept there are laws against homosexuality in the muslim world. Of course it applies to all religions, but we were talking ab
138 ME AVN FAN : no, as there are no laws in Arab countries against A) being homosexual & B) having homosexual contacts - in other words, if you make a law prohibitin
139 Post contains images AeroWesty : Okay, you're going to have to explain this one. As we've discussed before, not all muslim countries are Arab, so for you for changing the parameters.
140 ME AVN FAN : - I explained at length that what may be punished is neither the "being" homosexual, nor the homosexual contacts but some "circumstantial" things lik
141 Post contains images AeroWesty : I never made that claim. Copy/paste where I have if you'd like. I've only ever referred to "homosexual acts" that are prosecuted, so another to you o
142 N229NW : Sure, I'd be interested in what they say about their travels...I hope the conference is interesting.
143 767Lover : How did a thread about burquas wind up as a debate about homosexuality? Move the discussion to another thread please.
144 ME AVN FAN : THE question is how to define "acts" in this context. If it just means "to BE gay" and to have such "contacts", then there are no laws. If "acts" mea
145 AeroWesty : Not US specifically, but muslim/arab gays themselves.
146 YOWza : My question is when does a scarf become a burqa? For example if I'm 21 and female and am suffering from a spat of acne and I want to cover myself up i
147 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Mind your own business if it bothers you that much. I can't stand idiots who come into threads trying to run the show when they haven't been a part o
148 767Lover : I was part of the conversation (post 47) before it took this irrelevant turn. The discussion was supposed to be about possible Dutch legislation. And
149 ME AVN FAN : you are free to regard somebody as an "idiot" but should abstain from writing it -- it is bad style it is the same. there of course is a variety of d
150 YOWza : That was what I was getting at. YOWza
151 BHMBAGLOCK : We have a few who wear these around town in BHM but I've never seen or heard of anybody giving them trouble. Technically it is against some old anti-K
152 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I never called anyone an idiot. I said I can't stand idiots who come on here and try to run the show. And I sure don't need you two telling me what I
153 767Lover : Who were you referring to, then? You know damn well what you meant.
154 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I was referring to anyone who thinks it is necessary to come barging into a thread and give their holier-than-thou opinion and then try to steer it i
155 767Lover : There's nothing for me to feel guilty about. Hope your day gets better.
156 ME AVN FAN : I never said anything like this. He can talk about whatever he wants, including homosexuality.
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