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Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support  
User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1920 times:

I fully support this.

What do you think?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/fatherhood.suit.ap/index.html


Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1913 times:

I absolutely do not support it.

This is nothing more than whining about "I want what she has" (meaning options.)  hissyfit 

Look, if a guy wants to ensure he does not father a child until he's ready, he should either 1) not play or 2) wear a condom.

Otherwise, be a man, face up to your responsibility and pay child support. Because once you're in that situation, it's no longer about "you" or "her"--it's about a child...another human being who did not ask to be put on this earth. You are 50% responsible for that kid being here.

It amazes me how many guys whine and pout about having to wear condoms, and then complain when stuff like this happens.

I have not wanted to get pregnant yet and guess what? I haven't. Because I have taken responsibility for my actions.

And as for women having the options in this situation---well, life isn't always fair. It's about time everyone realize this.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Very simple:

You stick it in, you're responsible. Period. (Who has always been paying the child support for his now teenage daughter).


Jan


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3078 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1884 times:

Funny how one group wants to force women to have babies by taking their choice to abortion away....and another wants to take any support away.......And most want to cut welfare rates as well....

I wonder how this group would separate those who were "tricked" ionto fatherhood from those who just do not want to pay......

Gee Good to see that women are again being looked upon as chatel.....

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1869 times:

Hypothetical situation.

Guy & girl get together. Girl's on BC, guy bags it and they go at it. Condom fails, BC fails and she winds up pregnant. Guy does not want the kid, girl decides to keep it.

Should the guy be made to pay child support?



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1868 times:

I think this is a good thing and very fair in the Grand Scheme of things. As mentioned in the article, when it comes to a woman and pregnancy, the rights of "its her body her decision" and such come up about keeping the baby, aborting it whatever. If the pregnancy is unplanned, why should the man have no say in what the outcome can be? If the guy would want to keep the child and the woman doesn't, the chance the guy gets to keep the baby is slim to none. If the woman decided to keep the unplanned pregnancy which is an option, why should the guy have no options as well? And this isn't going out in support of those that don't practice safe sex, use birth control etc. I understand its the womans body and she should have control over things, but without a guy, she's not going to end up pregnant (not involving medical proceedures of course), so both parties involved should have an equal say in the matter.

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1868 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Should the guy be made to pay child support?

No.


User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1864 times:

If you concede that having the child is a choice (and many don't, they think it's a moral imperative), this issue is actually important.

When a woman discovers she is pregnant she has a choice to bring the pregnancy to term or not (not discussing the ethics of abortion here, just assuming that it is legal for the sake of the discussion).

A child demands support, the choice to have the child, therefore, ethically binds the mother to support it.

The father has no say in whether the woman has the child or has an abortion (both forcing a woman to bear a child and forcing her to have an abortion are abhorrent violations of her rights and her person).

That said, the woman certainly deserves to know if she can count on support from the father prior to making the decision to have the baby.

The best system, granting that abortion is a choice, would be to have the father "opt in" so to speak, up to a certain period of the pregnancy where an abortion is still devoid of major risks (3 months?). If the woman chooses to proceed and carry the pregnancy to term without the fathers express support, she is the sole responsible for providing for the child.

mrocktor


User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 5):
Why should the man have no say in what the outcome can be?

The guy gives up "his say" the minute he ejaculates.

As I mentioned before, life isn't always fair. Why should a child be denied a father, at least in the financial sense, just because the child wasn't what the father "ordered"?

It's not fair that it's the woman who gets pregnant and the man doesn't, if you always want to talk about what's "fair."

Again, if you don't want this to happen to you, don't have sex. It's that simple.

A former boyfriend of mine was careless in his prior relationship--he didn't "like wearing condoms" and the woman, who is a complete lunatic, told him "she could never get pregnant." (yeah, right. Guys, don't ever fall for it.) Well, guess what? He now has a 6 year old that he didn't "want" but is now paying for.

And oddly, with me he still had to be talked into condoms, despite all that.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
The guy gives up "his say" the minute he ejaculates.

Bullshit. Dropping a load does not equate to losing all rights.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
As I mentioned before, life isn't always fair. Why should a child be denied a father, at least in the financial sense, just because the child wasn't what the father "ordered"?

How is it fair that if the father wantsthe baby but the woman want an abortion the baby will be aborted? Isn't that denying the child a father as well? And talking about denying a child a father, if the guy does not want to be a father to begin with or isn't ready, what kind of a father will he make?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
It's not fair that it's the woman who gets pregnant and the man doesn't, if you always want to talk about what's "fair."

No, this is nature, not "fair".

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
Again, if you don't want this to happen to you, don't have sex. It's that simple.

This is just unreasonable.  Wink

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
A former boyfriend of mine was careless in his prior relationship--he didn't "like wearing condoms" and the woman, who is a complete lunatic, told him "she could never get pregnant." (yeah, right. Guys, don't ever fall for it.) Well, guess what? He now has a 6 year old that he didn't "want" but is now paying for.

And oddly, with me he still had to be talked into condoms, despite all that.

I'm not saying that dumbasses who are careless or whatever should not be held responsible, but what about the early 20-something couple struggling to make their own way, responsible using birth control etc, then bam she gets pregnant. Neither wanted a child, but after some time, the woman decides to keep it. The guy does not, guess what, he has just as much right as the woman to determine the outcome of this. The "We give brith so deal with it" argument just isn't going to work. The outcome of what happens to the guy should not be based on the perogatives of the woman.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4865 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 1):
wear a condom.

not what I would call a 100% option.

I think, you know what I don't know what I think. I would hope that any two people who conceive under any circumstances would see to it that the child is in no way harmed and unfair obligations are not placed on either of the parents - each situation is different.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1827 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
How is it fair that if the father wantsthe baby but the woman want an abortion the baby will be aborted?

Because the woman is the one carrying the child and going through the physical changes.

In general, look what has happened to the black community where there are so many "absent" fathers.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 11):
Because the woman is the one carrying the child and going through the physical changes.

And your point is what? Without the guy, there would be no physical changes.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 11):
In general, look what has happened to the black community where there are so many "absent" fathers.

Maybe if the fathers had some say so, there would be less one parent kids and less crowded group homes.


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3940 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
It's not fair that it's the woman who gets pregnant and the man doesn't

- Maybe we should sue someone about that!



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3078 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1809 times:

It is real simple....If you the man, does not want kids.......stop putting your penis in.....If two people have an oops for any reason no one forced you to have sex therefore you are as responsible....If you do not like it....stop having sport sex.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4865 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 14):
sport sex.

Haha I'm using that tonight. "Hey baby you up for some sport sex?"

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineJoness0154 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 11):
Because the woman is the one carrying the child and going through the physical changes.

If the woman carries the child, if the woman goes through the physical changes, if the woman makes all the decisions regarding to continue the pregnancy or not, shouldn't the woman be responsible for the child as a whole then (including financial support)?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
The guy gives up "his say" the minute he ejaculates.

You sound like its just a one way street. I would say the woman is responsible too if she lets her man not use protection and ejaculate inside her!



I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 16):
You sound like its just a one way street.

No, as I said earlier it is 50-50 responsibility.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 14):
It is real simple....If you the man, does not want kids.......stop putting your penis in.....If two people have an oops for any reason no one forced you to have sex therefore you are as responsible....If you do not like it....stop having sport sex.

GS

If it was only so simple. Here in the real world however, it isn't. Most people enjoy sex and are going to have it. Especially if the one engaging in it are responsible about it. Birth Control and such. If an "opps" happens, why shouldn't both parties have an equal say in what happens? If anyone has bothered to check, single parents and overflowing group/foster homes are a big issue these days.

Oh, and stop trying to make it about the guy and his penis. It takes two, and I'm willing to bet the woman's legs didn't exactly need to be pried open...

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 17):
No, as I said earlier it is 50-50 responsibility.

So its a 50/50 responsibility deal, but its a 0/100 deal when it comes to the rights of the guy. That doesn't work.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Should the guy be made to pay child support?

Yes.

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
Bullshit.

What a way to set an example for the rest of us. So much for taking the high road.

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
How is it fair that if the father wantsthe baby but the woman want an abortion the baby will be aborted?

Who said life was fair? It's the woman's choice because it's her body. It's about as fair as it can get already. If you want 100% control over your life, then stop messing around or find a way to conceive a child on your own. It's as simple as that.

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
I'm not saying that dumbasses who are careless or whatever should not be held responsible

How would you determine who's being honest and who's just being a jerk? That's a difficult job just policing a forum. Now put it in the context of life-long decisions made in a court of law. Get the picture? It's better to leave well enough alone in this case.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 3):
Funny how one group wants to force women to have babies by taking their choice to abortion away....and another wants to take any support away.......And most want to cut welfare rates as well....

America is just plain messed up at the moment. No doubt about it.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 17):
No, as I said earlier it is 50-50 responsibility.

Where the woman has 100% veto power. Hardly fair, imo.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
What a way to set an example for the rest of us. So much for taking the high road.

The High Road has what to do with this? I emphasized my opinion and did not attack anyone. It is an example.

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
Who said life was fair? It's the woman's choice because it's her body. It's about as fair as it can get already. If you want 100% control over your life, then stop messing around or find a way to conceive a child on your own. It's as simple as that.

This is the weakest argument. If a "man loses all rights" allegedly the second he ejaculates, then that should be a moot point because the minute a woman allows the man to enter, she should lose 50% of the right to decide what happens in the event of an unwanted/planned pregnancy. All this "its the womans body" stuff while I agree in theory, it still takes TWO people to have sex, to create a child, to have an "opps", etc. saying "stop messing around" or especially "conceive a child on your own" is absurd at best. People will have sex. People hopefully will be responsible about the issue, and BOTH parties involved should have an equal say in the outcome of what happens.

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
America is just plain messed up at the moment. No doubt about it.

After reading certain opinions in this thread I would have to agree.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Should the guy be made to pay child support?

Yes.

Why? He took proper precautions and has zero say in whether that child is born or not.

Why should he be made to pay when, through no fault nor choice of his own, a child was brought into the world?



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

It seems to me there is a very simple solution to all this. If you don't want a child, get the woman on birth control and always, ALWAYS wear a condom. The combination of both damn near ensures that pregnancy won't be a problem.

And yet people continue to do neither...



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 22):
Why should he be made to pay when, through no fault nor choice of his own, a child was brought into the world?

You can't say there is no fault, there is. The thing is, if the pregnancy was unplanned and or unwanted then the woman decided to keep the baby, the man should be able to opt out so to speak. Like I said, the guys fate should not rest on the womans perogative.


25 SATX : The proper precaution to ensure no babies are born is to not have sex. Birth control with a condom is a close second. However, none of that removes t
26 Post contains images 767Lover : You guys are forgetting one key thing. 100% of woman who get pregnent will know they are pregnant. Whereas, 100% of men might not necessarily know th
27 Greasespot : You have no right to tell a woman she must have an abortion or that she must have the baby....Until you are the one who gets pregnant that is just th
28 Joness0154 : Well then the woman shouldn't have the right to tell a man he must pay child support.... I hate it when women make it seem like the child is 'theirs'
29 767Lover : Stop thinking of it in terms of what's fair to YOU and start thinking about the child that you fathered (hypothetically) that needs financial support
30 Post contains images Greasespot : It is amazing how selfish people can be.....The kid does not know or care that you did not plan for him to enter the world..... GS
31 Post contains images MD11Engineer : An abortion has, like any surgical procedure, a certain risk for the woman's health and life. Also, the woman will be affected from the psychological
32 KROC : I never said it should. Notice all my percentages revolve around 50%. There needs to be open dialog as to the options for BOTH parties involved. Ther
33 Greasespot : If it is so simple then you take the pills......Oh right you are not the one pregnant....Just like i have no right to tell you what to do you have no
34 SFOMEX : I think is insane, but the logic behind their argument is almost spotless. If the mother has "choices" regarding her motherhood, why the father should
35 KROC : If I could take the pills, then I would, but sex is an act that requires two consenting people. If those 2 consent, and a pregnancy occurs that neith
36 SATX : How are we supposed to take you seriously when you use terms like that? Are we really dealing with an adult here? That's the sort of term I would exp
37 Aa757first : Thinking of it from a pro-choice mindset, why does a woman have a choice, but the man does not? If a woman can choose get rid of her baby, why can't t
38 Greasespot : How would you protect those who are most vulnerable....How would you protect those from the creeps that would decided not to pay support because they
39 Aa757first : Go to abortion clinics and you'll find women who have had three, four, five or more abortions. Not because of a physical problem within her, and not
40 767Lover : No, but if an abortion did not occur, the child has no choice but to be here. Logic and "doing the right thing" by an innocent child that you are 50%
41 Dragogoalie : if you're gonna get it on, be prepared for the freakin consequences
42 Post contains images Fumanchewd : I think that to make it more equitable, a woman should have to have the man's permission to have an abortion. Otherwise, it is hypocritical to expect
43 Post contains images Greasespot : I do...she made a choice to have an abortion. That is something SHE will have to live with...not him... We are not...you are. You do not need a woame
44 Joness0154 : If SHE has to live with the baby, if SHE makes all the choices, if the MAN gets no say whatsoever, shouldn't SHE be responsible for it? If the answer
45 SATX : Name any instance where a man has to consult a woman to get a medical procedure. Until then, it's not "equitable". How is he completely responsible?
46 Post contains images KaiGywer : I think they call us sperm donors
47 767Lover : What about having some say in whether she gets pregnant or not? By the way, I never said the woman isn't also responsible. I'm just saying that both
48 Mrocktor : You decide, I'm responsible for your choice. If you can't see the problem there, it's pointless to discuss. If the mother can't support a child and t
49 MaverickM11 : Amen. You can't simultaneously demand that the man take all the responsibility for the child and give the woman all the freedom to do as she pleases
50 A346Dude : Abortion is not just a simple medical procedure, it is a decision to end the life of a child that both parents were equally responsible for creating.
51 MattCLE : As a male I believe the choice is unequal because the burden is unequal. I dump my load in a girl she gets tested she gets fat she goes through other
52 Fumanchewd : This is not the same as your penis enlargement surgery, a baby is involved. A baby that was created by a man AND a woman. When have I ever said that
53 VC-10 : No, I DO NOT suport it. If you are going to have sex you have to accept the possible responsibilities that go with it. If you are not prepared to do t
54 777236ER : Why should you as a taxpayer be expected to pay for treatment for a smoker who has lung cancer? Why should you as a taxpayer be expected to give peop
55 VC-10 : Because we all contribute to that pot when we are working. We shouldn't but the tax on ciggies contributes. That is all part of the welfare state. I
56 777236ER : Some more than others. Why should someone by virtue of going to university and earning a good job have to fund a manual labourer made redundant yet a
57 Post contains images 767Lover : Yeah, being pregnant and having a child is "freedom."
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