ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13874 posts, RR: 28 Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1478 times:
Checked it on TF1 WEBsite. Looks like a conflict between students all over France on one side and the government on the other side. "Riots" is a strong term in a way, as it is, at least at present, just a matter of "higher education institutes" in France. Looks as if the government wants to tighten the regulations in various respects.
HatTrick From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1465 times:
Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 1): Any reasoning specifically for this? Is this group of students wanting thier cartoons back?
Something about a picture of the Prophet Mohammad eating a pulled pork sandwich.
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11135 posts, RR: 61 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1413 times:
Quoting YOWza (Reply 5): Guess it's true what the Lebanese say, Paris is the Beirut of Europe
"They say Beirut is the Paris of the Middle East. Does that mean Paris is the Beirut of Europe? Or is that an insult to Beirut?"- Michael J. Totten
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1376 times:
The students are protesting against new legislation that makes it easier to fire young people. (To our American friends: In Europe we have laws against firing people ). The legislation is supposed to reduce youth unemployment, which is very high in France. But the French always protest against anything seen as a social cut, that way they will fail in the globalisation.
Besides, I don't know if the CRS can really be compared to SWAT. The CRS seems to be more a riot police and also does patrols in cities. But maybe somebody from France can explain it better.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 9): The students are protesting against new legislation that makes it easier to fire young people. (To our American friends: In Europe we have laws against firing people ).
That's why Europe has such high unemployment. Employers will resist hiring people if they they are not sure they will need them permenantly. They calculate that it is better to do without.
Legislation making it expensive to fire people has been pushed by the powerful French trade unions as part of their strategy to ensure high unemployment and thus fear in the workforce, and thus high membership in unions, all while making it look to the typical airhead that the union is "looking after the workers".
I don't think it is that simple. I read research where some people made econometric analyses of factors contributing to unemployment. They found that strict employment laws are not a cause. You also have to keep in mind that there were times when the US has high unemployment and Europe low unemployment, despite those laws.
Unemployment over here has a lot of other things contributing to it. Lack of education and skills, high taxes and high non-wage labour costs, too much welfare, buerocracy etc.
Pelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2530 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1323 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 9): The students are protesting against new legislation that makes it easier to fire young people. (To our American friends: In Europe we have laws against firing people Wink ).
Well, to be correct - in many European countries we have laws against firing people.
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11): That's why Europe has such high unemployment. Employers will resist hiring people if they they are not sure they will need them permenantly. They calculate that it is better to do without.
That - to put it mildly - is wrong . While the neo-classical approach to labour market theory may suggest this, there is no empirical evidence.
Sebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3667 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1306 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 9): The students are protesting against new legislation that makes it easier to fire young people
Not exactly.
The gvt invented a new type of contract for young people, who will be in try-out period during 2 years. During this time they can be fired without motivation.
For the usual contracts, the try-ouy period is 3 or 6 months. After that, an employer is allowed to fire an employee for a good reason: lack of work to do, (real) financial problems, severe fault from the employee, and it's usually with an indemnity.
not exactly. But at least up to now it has been restricted to the universities
Quoting YOWza (Reply 5): Guess it's true what the Lebanese say, Paris is the Beirut of Europe
been in Beirut lately ? it is a tremendous city again, in many ways better than before 1975
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7): It wouldn't be France if the students weren't rioting.
I quite well remember US-American students rioting during the War in Vietnam. True, since then, the USA in politics apparently has moved somewhat to the right, so that Richard Milhous Nixon might be regarded as an American Socialist
Quoting Sebolino (Reply 15): The gvt invented a new type of contract for young people, who will be in try-out period during 2 years. During this time they can be fired without motivation.
For the usual contracts, the try-ouy period is 3 or 6 months. After that, an employer is allowed to fire an employee for a good reason: lack of work to do, (real) financial problems, severe fault from the employee, and it's usually with an indemnity.
what exactly is the reason that it looks as if being primarily an object of opposition for the students, rather than the trades-unions ?
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1255 times:
Quoting Pelican (Reply 14): That - to put it mildly - is wrong . While the neo-classical approach to labour market theory may suggest this, there is no empirical evidence.
Neo-classic is a theory with useless mathematic complications that does work in a fictional world, but not in the real world.
Pelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2530 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 17):
Neo-classic is a theory with useless mathematic complications that does work in a fictional world, but not in the real world.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13874 posts, RR: 28 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1219 times:
Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 20): they don't like the French State they should leave it
A) who says they dislike France ? they fight against what they perceive, rightly or wrongly, as a deterioration
B) is everybody in NewZealand forced by law to "like" the NZ state ? or leave if not ?
C) is NewZealand offering political asylum to "dissident" French students ? and maybe places at NZ universities ? (combined with a state stipendium of course, and free lodging)
-
DL021 From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 11433 posts, RR: 81 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1213 times:
Quoting HatTrick (Reply 4): Something about a picture of the Prophet Mohammad eating a pulled pork sandwich.
Is pulled pork halal? I'd have thought chopped pork instead, but what do I know?
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7): It wouldn't be France if the students weren't rioting.
Wow, I love it when stereotypes prove right. Or not.
Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 19): It's about new employment laws that will make it easier to sack younger employees
Yeah, so they might have to show up and actually work or take a chance on being fired! That's terrible, they should riot for their right to get paid for halfassing it through life.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13874 posts, RR: 28 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1208 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 22): they might have to show up and actually work or take a chance on being fired! That's terrible, they should riot for their right to get paid for halfassing it through life.
so, you mean that former students in France tend NOT to show up at workplaces and NOT to work and to "halfass" through life ? well, I am of course well aware of the deep love between US-Americans and French !
DL021 From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 11433 posts, RR: 81 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1184 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23): so, you mean that former students in France tend NOT to show up at workplaces and NOT to work and to "halfass" through life ? well, I am of course well aware of the deep love between US-Americans and French !
To be fair I was speaking as one who was raised part time in France and has friends and family who currently live there, where I visit a few times per year.
There is an unfortunately large subculture in France where students and young people in general tend to feel obligated to make demands of society, and they express their displeasure with any demands placed on them by rioting or striking. Engage in a conversation with the average French student and find out for yourself whether they expect to be taken care of or they expect to take care of themselves.
I love France. I'll be back there later this year, and will probably buy a house there in the next couple of years. I will also speak the truth. They have 10% unemployment not because the average person is incapable of working, or that there aren't jobs, but because it's too easy to stay unemployed. The benefits earned by unemployment are too good. There are too many 'black money' jobs available where a person pays no taxes (if you counted the jobs people have that dodge taxes unemployment would be several points lower).
This culture is indemic in secondary and post secondary students who expect to be taken care of and don't like discipline or additional demands placed on them. The mere fact that they are burning stuff and inviting the Police Nationale to launch CS and pepper gas their way is simply more evidence of this. They have bad habits and no one wants to correct them.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
25 Jafa39: They do Against tends to mean a form of dislike is inherent in the arguement that they are supporting by the riot. Certainly in the South Island, the
26 ME AVN FAN: ok, that is true enough. It sounded a bit "general" in your post. You know as well as I do that the French usually regard themselves as "individualis
27 Thorben: They are protesting against some legislation. Why should they leave France? Besides, these are not the "French" from the suburbs, in case you thought
28 ME AVN FAN: also had that impression -- by the way he put his "phrasing" !
29 WorldVoyager: I sure chose an interesting semester to study abroad in Paris. I haven't had class in three weeks because of the student strikes (human chains in the
30 YOWza: I was just making a historical joke. I was in Beirut twice last year and loved it. Great nightlife, some beautiful places and friednly people. YOWza
31 DL021: I agree with that. I apologize for giving that impression. Sometimes language and cultural barriers make it difficult to understand each others true
32 Jafa39: If you get deported from NZ you go back to your home country. I think its sad that Paris has to accept such BS from students, who are preventing thos
33 ME AVN FAN: These students in Paris however ARE in their home-country, and so can neither "go back" nor be "deported" to anywhere. It is "native" French and not
34 DL021: Well, to be very fair the universities in Paris are full of foreigners who come to study at the highly respected institutions located there. These stu
35 ME AVN FAN: there of course are many foreigners in these universities, but for sure a definite French majority. I do NOT believe for a moment that the foreigners
36 Toulouse: Yes, but it's also a new employment law to "promote" the employment of younger employees. That's important to note. It's simply a new type of contrac
37 DL021: I certainly did not intend to infer that the native French students were being led astray by foreign influence, merely to point out that there are pl
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