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Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1251506.ece


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Sad news for these soldiers . . . .

I have to ask though - what was a tank doing out on a frozen bog (shallow lake?) - especially one deep enough to submerge the entire tank???

We have tanks in the US Army - we just don't drive them out on to the ice . . . something about 70 tons not being compatible with the strength of the ice. We don't use tanks in Alaska either - they have a tendency to sink up here . . .

My sympathies to their families . . . . tombstone 


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2863 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
I have to ask though - what was a tank doing out on a frozen bog (shallow lake?) - especially one deep enough to submerge the entire tank???

My understanding was that such tactics are actually SOP on the Korean peninsula during wintertime. The rice paddies freeze over during that time.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
The rice paddies freeze over during that time.

That may be the case, but I've never seen an 8 foot deep rice paddy . . . which is how deep it'd have to be to top the turret of an Abrams . . . when I was stationed in Korea in 1987 we took tanks all over in the winter . . . never saw one sunk in a rice paddy.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
That may be the case, but I've never seen an 8 foot deep rice paddy

Long Grain rice?


We just had a similar accident up here, a guy was moving an escavator accross a frozen lagoon up by Kotzubue and it went through, Divers found him a couple of days later.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3764 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
We have tanks in the US Army - we just don't drive them out on to the ice . . .

Well, Norway doesn't really have that much flat ground to drive your tank around on. Every inch that is not bog or fjord is covered by mountains. The Norwegian military will now probably replace their Leopards with something smaller... like a snow mobile! With a gun.  silly 

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Isn't the Leo 2 able to dive? Okay they had probably no snorkel, but shouldn't the interior stay dry for some time?
What's the opinion of our tank experts?


May the two soldiers rest in peace.

pelican

[Edited 2006-03-18 10:35:11]

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 6):
Isn't the Leo 2 able to dive? Okay they had probably no snorkel, but shouldn't the interior stay dry for some time?
What's the opinion of our tank experts?

Normally you only drive "buttoned up" if there is a threat from outside (e.g. somebody shooting at you) because vision through the periscopes is very limited.
Normal travel is being done with at least two hatches open (driver's and commander's).

I remember that there was a similar incident some years ago during a cold winter in Denmark, when during an exercise an armoured unit got lost and drove out onto the frozen Baltic sea.

Jan


User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11951 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Sad stuff. Focus here now is that too many have been killed during training missions. Steps should be taken to make it safer...

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Bad news, indeed, and what a tragic turn of events for those soldiers!

User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Normal travel is being done with at least two hatches open (driver's and commander's).

That explains alot.

pelican

[Edited 2006-03-18 13:37:27]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 6):
Okay they had probably no snorkel, but shouldn't the interior stay dry for some time?
What's the opinion of our tank experts?

It takes time to prepare the tank for Ford a body of water - it's not simply a matter of buttoning up the hatches and tossing up a snorkel - and certainly not as easy as just driving into the water.

Not to mention this thing went down in ice water - hatches open . . .

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Normal travel is being done with at least two hatches open (driver's and commander's).

And three on the Abrams: Driver, Commander and Loader.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Sad story.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
It takes time to prepare the tank for Ford a body of water - it's not simply a matter of buttoning up the hatches and tossing up a snorkel

I thought time to prepare a Leo II for fording a river was comparatively short: Put on a snorkel and off you go. But I never drove that thing, so I really don't know.

Quote: Fording Depths (meter): 1.0 Unprepared, 4.0 with snorkel
(Source: FAS.org)



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2634 times:
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The investigation shows that it wasn't just a little "water hole", but rather a significant lake it fell into. It also said the studs on the belts were taken off to prevent damage to the road. This caused the tank to slide sideways onto the ice and sink.



1. The Leopard-2 tank comes driving from the north east on E-10
2. The tank takes off 90 degrees off the road
3. It turns slightly left, and backs into position on a small hill north east of the lake
4. The tank sits on firm ground east of the swamp. The ground breaks and the tank slides sideways into the swamp.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Sad way to go for the two young males, my sincerest condolences.

User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11951 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2604 times:

It has been confirmed that it was indeed a lake and not a swamp the tank sank into. Also confirmed that the two soldiers cause of death was drowning.

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
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