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Pure Pacifists On Iraq: Kind Of Clueless  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

According to a number of news stories, a wave of anti-war protests is taking place condemning the U.S. presence in Iraq and warning against intervention against Iran.

Here's a quote from one story:

"'We will continue until we see the last general running for a helicopter on the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad," read a statement from Stop the War Alliance, which is organizing a rally outside the U.S. Embassy in Athens, Greece."

Source:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060318/...;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Statements like these do not advance the cause of peace.

According to another article, available today at http://www.globeandmail.com, even some of those among anti-war protestors in the U.S. have realized that the absence of a viable alternative to continued military action has stymied their hopes for a mass movement for peace.

Perhaps the more radical among the anti-war activists should at least realize that if you're going to lobby for peace, you shouldn't wish defeat upon U.S. policy. It's going to irritate the very people you need to help your cause.

[Edited 2006-03-18 12:24:44]

7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

The thing is,the core of many of these organizations is not the LEAST BIT interested in "world peace" - but in the tearing down of established governments.

Were peace to be achieved tomorrow,these folks know they would be out of business - but there is little danger of that !
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gene
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3789 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1308 times:

I fully agree with you. I was always against the Iraq war, because it was obvious from the beginning that there was no sufficient concept to ensure a long lasting peace in this multi-ethnical state.

But that is completely irrelevant now. What has been started must be finished. Leaving the Iraq now would be a completely wrong signal, as it would give terrorists all over the world the impression that they have "won".

Therefore, I also think it was a bad move from Spain to remove their troops after the terror attack on Madrid. It was wrong to bring troops to Iraq in the first place, but a withdrawal is irresponsible.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1293 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
"'We will continue until we see the last general running for a helicopter on the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad," read a statement from Stop the War Alliance

What fools. The scenario they eagerly wish for is a Saigon-like fall of what civil order does exist in Iraq.

Civilians and non-combatants stand to gain nothing in the event of full-fledged civil war.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
I was always against the Iraq war, because it was obvious from the beginning that there was no sufficient concept to ensure a long lasting peace in this multi-ethnical state.

It's entirely concievable that a nationwide reconstruction as a stable multi-ethnic democratic state without prolonged chaos was possible. The problem was the Bush administration and Pentagon's efforts were woefully lacking. In my opinion, that is an unforgivable sin and should rightfully taint Bush's record. How many Iraqi civilians and American forces died unneccessarily?

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
It was wrong to bring troops to Iraq in the first place, but a withdrawal is irresponsible.

Very good point.


User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Yeah, those people sound pretty damn idiotic. But don't dump pacifists in with them. I am against violence and am generally considered a pacifist, but I sure as hell don't wish for that.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Perhaps the more radical among the anti-war activists should at least realize that if you're going to lobby for peace, you shouldn't wish defeat upon U.S. policy.

If you are talking only for this specific case, I'll grant you that. Otherwise, your statement is almost as idiotic as theirs. If U.S. policy is bad or wrong, it is our obligation to lobby against it and do our damndest to have the policy overturned. And believe it or not, the U.S. makes bad policy decisions from time to time. Besides, in this case the policy that the majority of us "pacifists" are against was the invasion of Iraq in the first place, which was a bad policy decision in our view. We have a right to voice our opinion and protest against the action that was taken. Of course, it would also be completely irresponsible to leave Iraq in the quagmire we have created over there. So while we cannot withdraw troops right now, we should be looking at better ways to stabilize Iraq (I'm sure people have come up with great ideas and that some ideas have been implented or will be implemented soon).

The point is that we must question and challenge our leaders and stand up for what is right, even if that is divergent from what current U.S. policy is. You want to call yourself a patriot, pro-American, etc? Then stand up for what is RIGHT and not just what people in government tell you to believe. This goes for people who fall in all areas of the political spectrum.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1725 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
It was wrong to bring troops to Iraq in the first place, but a withdrawal is irresponsible.

Although I think we need to take a serious look at whether our continued presence is actually contributing to the instability and the security problems.

Some proportion of the Sunni insurgency, mostly foreign jihadis, are drawn to Iraq to fight the US military. When they get there however, they realize that's maybe not such a easy thing to do and instead they turn on the Shia "collaborators" because they're an easier target.

Whether we intended to or not, we have in effect taken sides in the Sunni-Shia sectarian conflict. Clearly the US military did not create that conflict and tension, but our continued presence may in fact exacerbate and encourage what is already a very tense situation.

The other issue relates to how continued large scale US military presence affects the performance of Iraqi security forces. On the one hand, we can provide additional training and support. On the other hand, that support can become a crutch if we're not careful.

The performance of all but a small handful of the Iraqi security forces has been lackluster at best. It is becoming increasingly obvious that is not a function of insufficient training. It is a lack of will and determination. As long as the US remains to do the heavy lifting we may well find that the Iraqis simply won't stand up and do it themselves.

It's a bit like a teenager whose Mom is forever doing his laundry. As long as Mom is there doing it, he's probably not going to do it himself.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

These people are usually pick out because they are the ones that refuse to admit that there is a point where force is needed.

It is pretty sad really that nobody appears to have learned the lesson from Chamberlin.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

I'm glad that there are so many of those who agree with me that sometimes, force is the only option.

Sadly, in the world in which we live, sometimes, war is the answer.

God save us all.


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