Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Another Muslim Perspective  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

The New York Times had a great article by a Muslim who is critical of radical Islam last week. It got a big response on A.net, so here is another Op-Ed from the Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/18/op...nion/18manji.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Very balanced and interesting look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...

How I Learned to Love the Wall
By IRSHAD MANJI

Young Muslims, especially those privileged with a good education, cannot walk away from these questions as my interlocutor in Abu Dis did. If we follow in his footsteps, we are only conspiring against ourselves.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The New York Times had a great article by a Muslim who is critical of radical Islam last week. It got a big response on A.net, so here is another Op-Ed from the Times today:



If you are suggesting that Irshad Manji is somehow representative of Muslims in general, you are wrong. While her ideas on the Palestinian-Israelian conflict might be interesting, they are nothing more than that: ideas.

As already was the case with the article in the other thread you referred to, hyping the opinions and ideas of Muslims just because they are Muslims is pathetic, IMHO. Just because she's a Muslim, it doesn't mean that the views and opinions of a Uganda-born Canadian feminist on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict should be given more credibility.

Ms Manji has been accused by other Liberal Muslims (they exist) of ""sloppy" scholarship and her lack of Arabic proficiency" and have alleged that her "popularity derives from saying what the western media want to hear about Islam". As Tarek Fatah wrote about Manji's book "The Trouble with Islam": "it is not addressed to Muslims; it is aimed at making Muslim-haters feel secure in their thinking." (1) Judging by the anti-Arab and anti-Muslim threads you start here day-after-day, week-after-week, I'm affraid you fall into that category.

If you really want to get a discussion going regarding what Muslims think about Radical Islam, the Middle-Eastern conflict, etc., you'd better start reading those articles and op-eds written by real Middle-Eastern Muslims, the ones that actually live there and experience it day-by-day.



(1) http://www.muslimwakeup.com/main/archives/2003/11/thanks_but_no_t.php



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

A) Last week's article was by a aethist woman, not a Muslim one.
B) While the article is interesting, I disagree with a few major points:
-The wall is an aparatheid wall which splits up the West Bank and is on confiscated Palestinian land.
-It chokes off the Palestinians completley and seals them in their land and colectivlley puneshes them. Look at Qalqilyah for example, where growth is now impossible in an already densley populated city, because it is completley covered by the wall and there is only one road left leading to and out of it.

See below:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/seperationmap_eng.swf


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
o

Are you familiar with www.memritv.org ?
They have an extensive media library with translated Arab media.
It is quite interested to hear what is allowed to say on Arabic television!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):

How terrible of you to mix religion and politics!

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 3):
How terrible of you to mix religion and politics!

?! Where the hell did I do that? I said that what RJ was saying is false because the woman was not a Muslim, as she clearly said! She said she was secular, not me, and RJ is trying to make it sound like regular Muslims are actually supportive of things like the wall and believe that their own religion is backwards. Now do you see why he's so infamous here?


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
Now do you see why he's so infamous here?

No I do not!
The fact that you view secular Muslims this way is awful!
Most people in my region of the world are atheists or semi atheists, because they are realists by heart!

I honestly do not understand why or how you can turn down somebody, just because they do not believe in God, they are still Muslims by origin and have studied Islam quite substantially, just not under the influence of some of the Imams and clerics that can be watched on Arabic television.

I.E http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1074

They are critical of Islam, and from where I am sitting they are wise to be so.

I see you mixing regligion into this, because a women, with a Muslim upbringing and back ground, state something you are against, you decline her words, because she is not really a Muslim.

It is like you are saying, that you must be a non Muslim if you understand Israel's reasons for building the wall.

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 1):

Here is the menifest she is joining in on:

Quote:

THE MANIFESTO OF 12:

Together facing the new totalitarianism

After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global totalitarian threat: Islamism.

We -- writers, journalists and public intellectuals -- call for resistance to religious totalitarianism.

Instead, we call for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values worldwide.

The necessity of these universal values has been revealed by events since the publication of the Muhammad drawings in European newspapers. This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the arena of ideas. What we are witnessing is not a clash of civilizations, nor an antagonism of West versus East, but a global struggle between democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarianisms, Islamism is nurtured by fears and frustrations. The preachers of hate bet on these feelings in order to form battalions destined to impose a world of inequality. But we clearly and firmly state: nothing, not even despair, justifies the choice of obscurantism, totalitarianism and hatred.

Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present. Its success can only lead to a world of greater power imbalances: man�s domination of woman, the Islamists� domination of all others.

To counter this, we must assure universal rights to oppressed people. For that reason, we reject �cultural relativism,� which consists of accepting that Muslim men and women should be deprived of their right to equality and freedom in the name of their cultural traditions.

We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of �Islamophobia,� an unfortunate concept that confuses criticism of Islamic practices with the stigmatization of Muslims themselves.

We plead for the universality of free expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on every continent, against every abuse and dogma.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits of all countries that our century should be one of enlightenment, not of obscurantism.

Signed,

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Chahla Chafiq , Caroline Fourest, Bernard-Henri L�vy, Irshad Manji , Mehdi Mozaffari, Maryam Namazie, Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Antoine Sfeir, Philippe Val, Ibn Warraq

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1476 times:

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 1):
Just because she's a Muslim, it doesn't mean that the views and opinions of a Uganda-born Canadian feminist on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict should be given more credibility.

Yes, I'm afraid it does. Muslims have to figure out their mess themselves. Thus, when Muslims have unique, interesting perspectives about their religion, it is worth discussing.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
A) Last week's article was by a aethist woman, not a Muslim one.

She is Muslim, you know that. There are many people who identify as "XXXX religion" and atheist.


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
The fact that you view secular Muslims this way is awful!

What the hell are you going on about? Please tell me where I viewed secular Muslims as anything bad? Plus, what is a secular Muslim? She is a secular, aethist woman who said she does not believe in Islam. I was pointing that out. Is that some sort of insult I am not aware of?

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
I honestly do not understand why or how you can turn down somebody, just because they do not believe in God, they are still Muslims by origin and have studied Islam quite substantially, just not under the influence of some of the Imams and clerics that can be watched on Arabic television.

I did not turn anyone down. And, just because someone can run their mouths on a TV station does not make them an expert or anything - the fact that she lumps such a large amount of people as backwards and barbaric proves how she has no idea about Islam.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
I see you mixing regligion into this, because a women, with a Muslim upbringing and back ground, state something you are against, you decline her words, because she is not really a Muslim.

You really have things confused. Try to get your head around it. RJ said that the woman who spoke on Aljazeera, the one who he posted a link about last week, is a Muslim. She is not. I pointed that out. Full stop. Stop being such a goddamn drama queen.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
Yes, I'm afraid it does. Muslims have to figure out their mess themselves. Thus, when Muslims have unique, interesting perspectives about their religion, it is worth discussing.

She is a Ugandan-born Canadian, who has probably never even been in Palestine and has no idea about the culture or the people, how the hell will she give anything more credible than anyone else living in the West? Does the average Joe living in Texas have any idea about Christians in Jordan or wherever? I know much more about Chrisitians in Jordan than the majority of Christians in the US.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
She is Muslim, you know that. There are many people who identify as "XXXX religion" and atheist.

 Yeah sure From the transcript posted on Memri TV:
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.

Or are you trying to decide for her now?


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
I.E http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1074

They are critical of Islam, and from where I am sitting they are wise to be so.

MEMRI was founded by two Israelis, one of them having worked for Israeli Military Intelligence, so its no suprise they are critical of Islam.

"Dr. Cole has accused the institute of "cleverly cherry-pick[ing] the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials", selecting the Arabic equivalent of comments on Islam by the likes of Christian fundamentalist Jerry Falwell or outspoken conservative columnist Ann Coulter. He also notes that, "On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigotted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the Web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMRI

(Note: Although Dr. Juan Cole is, as far as I know, not a Muslim, given the fact that he is a Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History I believe he has more credibility than, lets say, a Uganda-born Canadian feminist living in Vancouver.)

Quoting Windshear (Reply 6):
Boaz.

And your point is?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
Yes, I'm afraid it does. Muslims have to figure out their mess themselves.

With all respect, but that's bullshit! Do we ask all Christians to act and to "figure out their mess themselves" everytime some Radical Christian bombs an abortion-clinic? One has to make differences between the radicals and the rest, whether we're talking about Islam, Christianity or whatever.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: you are doing exactly what the radical Muslims want you to do: you are generalizing. You are holding responsable an entire religious group for the actions of just a handfull. You are hyping their importance and blaming all of them. Your line of thinking is not only wrong, it is also very close to discrimination based on religion.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1408 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 8):
Stop being such a goddamn drama queen.

Mind your language my friend!

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):

And your point is?

Kinda hard when you don't tell me what to explain.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):

MEMRI was founded by two Israelis, one of them having worked for Israeli Military Intelligence, so its no suprise they are critical of Islam.

So?
The transcrips AND video are from ARAB newsmedia, now, if anyone is miscrediting the Muslims, that is only the ones aired on Arabic television, I think you should watch and read.
I cannot see where you are getting at.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):
With all respect, but that's bullshit! Do we ask all Christians to act and to "figure out their mess themselves" everytime some Radical Christian bombs an abortion-clinic? One has to make differences between the radicals and the rest, whether we're talking about Islam, Christianity or whatever.

Yes we ask each country to deal with their own masses, where are you from??
We have an international society, but each sovereign state must of course set rules and seek them to be upheld.
Now don't tell me Christians who bomb anyone, or vandalize is not procecuted and hopefully trailed.

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1403 times:

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):
MEMRI was founded by two Israelis, one of them having worked for Israeli Military Intelligence, so its no suprise they are critical of Islam.

Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

MEMRI is not "critical of Islam". They simply translate Arab media into English. Of course most of what they put out sounds horrible and awful, but it comes from the Arab world. You can't deny that.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

This woman is out of her depth. I have met her in person and frankly she's all about generating rheotoric and spinning it into a story to make something of herself. A publicity hog so to speak. Nothing more. She has since calmed down on marketing herself as a lesbain muslim. I have nothing against her as I have no problem with either muslims or lesbians. That said her spiel worthless.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1375 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

The point is that it is not the most unbiased source for info. While they claim to "bridge the language gap between the West and the Middle East", the truth is that they almost exclusively provide translations of articles and TV clips, which either "reflect badly on the character of Arabs or [which] in some way further the political agenda of Israel" as Guardian reporter Brian Whitaker wrote in 2002. (1)

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
MEMRI is not "critical of Islam". They simply translate Arab media into English. Of course most of what they put out sounds horrible and awful, but it comes from the Arab world. You can't deny that.

They are rather selective in their translations, as Dr. Cole pointed out in the quote above. They only translate and distribute what the Ann Coulters and the Sean Hannity's of the Middle East say or write and than present those views as if they were common amongst Muslims. Just have a look at their Latest Clips in their TV Section (2), especially clip numbers 1073 and 1074 broadcasted on March 1st and March 12 respectively. If their true objective really is to "brigde the language gap between the West and the Middle East", how come they have only come up with two clips in a nearly two week period, two clips which just happen to put Arabs/Muslims in a bad light? That's not "bridging the gap" in my book. That's widening the gap by giving a one-sided and thus distorted view.

(1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,,773258,00.html
(2) http://www.memritv.org/



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1364 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 10):
So?
The transcrips AND video are from ARAB newsmedia, now, if anyone is miscrediting the Muslims, that is only the ones aired on Arabic television, I think you should watch and read.
I cannot see where you are getting at.



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

MEMRI is not "critical of Islam". They simply translate Arab media into English. Of course most of what they put out sounds horrible and awful, but it comes from the Arab world. You can't deny that.

MEMRI is widely criticized for its selectivity in what its translates and even inaccuracies in translation to suit its agenda and thus it does not portray an accurate picture of the Arab media.

Check out these two articles:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1511
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/...nalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html

A former CIA counterintelligence official, Vincent Cannistraro, said that “they [MEMRI} are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud…. They simply don't present the whole picture.” In an article titled “Selective MEMRI,” Brian Whitaker of the Guardian (London) observed: Evidence from MEMRI's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status.” Ali Abunimah, vice-president of the Chicago-based Arab American Action Network, cautions that there are sounder voices in the Arab and Muslim communities who try to challenge these kinds of statements, and that some of the language about Muslims and Arabs in the U.S. and Israeli press is equally vile. Yet, he added, that “a lot of anti-Israeli sentiment is indeed mixed with anti-Semitic rhetoric imported from the West.”

Although critics are more concerned with the selectivity of MEMRI’s translations rather than their accuracy, instances of MEMRI’s political bias affecting the accuracy of its translations have on occasion been cited. The Guardian’s Brian Whitaker took MEMRI’s president to task for mistranslating a question that included an implied criticism of Israel. The question was "How do you deal with the Jews who are besieging al-Aqsa and are scattered around it?" But MEMRI translated this as: "How do you feel about the Jews?"


Oh, and RJpieces, I got you a present:




"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 14):

Oh, and RJpieces, I got you a present:

Thanks, BA! I might be obsessed, but you respond in every thread I start with articles that your anti-Israel groups feed you...So right back at you.


User currently offlineJetset25j From New Zealand, joined Feb 2006, 156 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

MEMRI's agenda can be criticized.
But the video content has to be taken for what it is. The same content is available on say Al-Jazeera or the other primary sources they were taken from. MEMRI just does the job of collecting it. Its almost roughly 40/60% in regards to the reporting on moderate islamic/arab voices-at least it trys to show both sides of the coin unlike say Iranian media sources.
Either way, the clips come straight from the "horses" (in question) mouths.



Air New Zealand-Airline of the world's greatest travellers.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1350 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
Thanks, BA! I might be obsessed, but you respond in every thread I start with articles that your anti-Israel groups feed you...So right back at you.

The last thread I replied to you was in November. We're in April. Count up how many threads you've made since then. So nice try.

Have a nice day.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 17):
The last thread I replied to you was in November. We're in April. Count up how many threads you've made since then. So nice try.

You've been posting that same stuff for years now, even if you haven't responded since November...

Btw, out of curiousity, why the American flag all of a sudden?


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
You've been posting that same stuff for years now, even if you haven't responded since November...

Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
Btw, out of curiousity, why the American flag all of a sudden?

It's been like this for a few months now. I'm surprised you just noticed it now. I wanted to change it and figured the the Country field is meant more to show the user's location rather than the user's background.

No, I don't hate Lebanon all of a sudden. I still carry two passports with me.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 19):

Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"

And you've just had a relap or what?

I say again, MEMRI translates Arabic television.
Now if these things are said on Arab TV then naughty them, we are monitoring their "free" media to hear see for our selves. If you are embarrased about us eaves dropping your region, then switch tones.

Tonight there will be a documentary on Danish television about the Arab media, where I saw in a clip, a small girl being asked if she knows what Jews are, and she replies that they are offspring of pigs and apes.

Al Jazeera I my self have been monitoring, and they translate them selves, I see no point in your arguements, and BA I have also seen your posts before, so what if you had a dry period, sounds and looks to me as if you are back.

I just think your retoric and behavior has gotten worse, you've become childish in a way.
Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1297 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
She said she was secular

well, the "problem" with her is NOT that she said to be secular, which is a positive aspect in my mind, but that she stated to be an ATHEIST, which undermines her credibility

Quoting BA (Reply 14):
MEMRI is widely criticized for its selectivity in what its translates and even inaccuracies in translation to suit its agenda and thus it does not portray an accurate picture of the Arab media.

-- MEMRI on purpose collects things which shed a negative light onto the Arab World and onto Islam, that is perfectly obvious

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
anti-Israel groups

oh sure, the Guardian in London an "anti-Israel group" ? well here something nice for you :
thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease. Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."
-- just saw this and found if perfectly reflecting the reality about MEMRI
-


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 10):
Mind your language my friend!

Nice, when you've been completley proven wrong, you attack what kind of language I use instead of apologising for putting things in my mouth?

Quoting Windshear (Reply 10):
So?
The transcrips AND video are from ARAB newsmedia, now, if anyone is miscrediting the Muslims, that is only the ones aired on Arabic television, I think you should watch and read.
I cannot see where you are getting at.

What he is getting at is that if you click on any of the categories, everything will be anti-Arab and there would be no pro-Arab videos. This is very evident in the site, and shows that they clearly have an agenda.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

They have not experienced radical Islam first hand, as what they experience is very different from what goes on in say Iraq or what went on during 9/11. You know as well as I do this is a political problem, not a religious one, and that Israel is facing something completley different from the US - Israel is being attacked by people living in a country it is occupying while the US is being attacked for a number of different reasons which are nothing like those in Palestine.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
Thanks, BA! I might be obsessed, but you respond in every thread I start with articles that your anti-Israel groups feed you...So right back at you.

He hasn't replied to one of your threads in God knows how long, nor does he (or has he ever) repeatedly posted anti-Israel threads. You, on the other hand...

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 16):
But the video content has to be taken for what it is. The same content is available on say Al-Jazeera or the other primary sources they were taken from. MEMRI just does the job of collecting it. Its almost roughly 40/60% in regards to the reporting on moderate islamic/arab voices-at least it trys to show both sides of the coin unlike say Iranian media sources.

Yes, it is content from Arab media, but it does not even come close to showing both sides of the coin. For example, on the front page there is a video for an interview with a singer called Sha'aban Abdel Rahim, aka Sha'bolla, one of the most mocked singers in the Arab world. He is singing about Denmark and sang about 9/11, it looks very bad when they post about this kind of thing but not more balanced opinions from someone who isn't considered insane.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 20):
And you've just had a relap or what?

This is a discussion forum, he can post whatever he wants wherever he wants, and it does not concern you.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 20):
I say again, MEMRI translates Arabic television.
Now if these things are said on Arab TV then naughty them, we are monitoring their "free" media to hear see for our selves. If you are embarrased about us eaves dropping your region, then switch tones.

That doesn't change the fact that the content is hand picked to make Arabs look bad - why isn't there anything on there showing Arabs in a good light? At least they can try to be balanced.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 20):
Tonight there will be a documentary on Danish television about the Arab media, where I saw in a clip, a small girl being asked if she knows what Jews are, and she replies that they are offspring of pigs and apes.

And this is not biased? There are extremists out there who teach crazy things, that does not mean that all of the Arab media is the same.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
well, the "problem" with her is NOT that she said to be secular, which is a positive aspect in my mind, but that she stated to be an ATHEIST, which undermines her credibility

No, it does not, what undermines her credibility is the things she said, not her personal beliefs. She could be amish for all I care, but the fact that she said such ignorant things proves that she is a waste of time to listen to and to quote.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
oh sure, the Guardian in London an "anti-Israel group" ? well here something nice for you :
thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease. Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."
-- just saw this and found if perfectly reflecting the reality about MEMRI

Completley agree...


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
Nice, when you've been completley proven wrong, you attack what kind of language I use instead of apologising for putting things in my mouth?

Explain?
You have every right to explain what you mean, given the choice of words coming from you and BA, I am bound to misunderstand you, hopefully!
But calling me a drama queen, I do not like, so don't go ape on me for telling you to change your tone towards me.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
What he is getting at is that if you click on any of the categories, everything will be anti-Arab and there would be no pro-Arab videos. This is very evident in the site, and shows that they clearly have an agenda.

So?
This is not propaganda!
I wish to quote or refer to the site, when I meet you in a debate, refusing that such views has any place in your culture.
It is impossible to debate such issues with you, because you take it personal, telling me that, not all Muslims are like this, when what worries me, is not those who are not like that, but those who are!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
This is a discussion forum, he can post whatever he wants wherever he wants, and it does not concern you.

Yes indeed! now what did I comment?

I commented this:
[i]Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"[/]

He has every right to comment as much as he wants, but he says that he no longer participates, and I beg to differ, as we have seen, he is active, again.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
That doesn't change the fact that the content is hand picked to make Arabs look bad - why isn't there anything on there showing Arabs in a good light? At least they can try to be balanced.

So?
You are taking every critisizm of your religion or Muslim brothers personal!
Obviously we are not quoting you! I do how ever, think that I am entitled to look into such comments said on Arab television, as they would be unacceptable to utter in the west, why?
Because they are outragious and it is pure hate speech, directed towards minorities of many sorts.

But there are clips of imams and others speaking against killing of Jews and terrorism, so don't exaggerate.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
And this is not biased? There are extremists out there who teach crazy things, that does not mean that all of the Arab media is the same.

Excuse me?
Biased?? This is a documentary about statements and opinions aired, that are so outragious that it needs discussion!
If other nations spoke out in such fascist and offensive ways, I assure you there would be documentaries about them as well!

In my opinion you rather want us to not mind such views, and frankly in my view, we have a moral obligation to react when we hear such fascist, racist, anti Semetic and obscene comments aired on public television, be it a minority or a majority, we have an obligation to react, comment and comdemn such opinions.

Now tell me why are such views aired on Friday prayer on Al Jazeera?
Why has a minority the right to say such outragious things on like Al Jazeera?

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
This is not propaganda!

From Cambridge's online dictionary:

"propaganda Show phonetics
noun [U] MAINLY DISAPPROVING
information, ideas, opinions or images, often only giving one part of an argument, which are broadcast, published or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions:
"

[Emphasis added]

A perfect description of MEMRI, if you ask me.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
25 Post contains images QR332 : This isn't me going ape, this is me saying that you assumed something without reading my post properly, and then you proceeded to make a huge deal ou
26 ME AVN FAN : just to reply to a remark you placed in another thread, I did NOT say and do NOT say that Mossad killed Rafik Hariri, I however mentioned that many p
27 Jetset25j : It looks very bad when these people with such views are given air time!!! You can't silence what is being said, no matter how much it hurts your agen
28 ME AVN FAN : MEMRI carefully selects extreme contents from the Arab media. Of course existing ones, ones which should NOT exist, but still basically a negative se
29 Windshear : The eternal victim. When someone in that part of the world has done something wrong, there is always some way to turn themselves into victims again.
30 Post contains links and images Windshear : Here is an insight into a UK Muslim debate forum: http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80388 Sheesh. Could actually have been Emirates773ER ma
31 Schoenorama : Who's talking about victims, Windshear? Honestly, I have yet to find one post in this entire thread which states such thing. What I do see however is
32 QR332 : And I am not asking for anything to be silenced, I am saying that they should be much more balanced. There aren't many things, open the 9/11 sections
33 ME AVN FAN : difficult to understand why TV stations which are banned in countries like Egypt, Algeria, and Germany are allowed in Scandinavia.
34 Windshear : Excuse me?? I have read Fallen Angel's coments, and he has a very special place in my heart for what he has said! But as I have said before, you are
35 Windshear : yes me too and your point is?? Boaz.
36 Post contains links Emirates773ER : Quoting Windshear (Reply 30): Could actually have been Emirates773ER making this statement: That indeed is a pretty crisp statement, but then the trut
37 Post contains images Erikwilliam : ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I´m no longer replying to threads either RjPieces or Windshear opens about this topic. People like them are the last thing needed
38 Raffik : They are ignorant- there is nothing they can do about it.
39 Windshear : This is really worrying I agree! The above quoted sentence, reminds me of the logic you portrayed a month or so ago during the cartoon debate. It is
40 Windshear : What should I then say ditto to that as well? No my impression of you was diferent. Boaz.
41 Erikwilliam : stop beeing a s**er to RJPieces would be a great start.
42 Windshear : You are quoting something I wrote to Raffik! But do elaborate. Boaz.
43 Erikwilliam : unnecessary, you wouldn´t be able to follow....
44 Raffik : Windshear and RJPieces enjoy stirring up all this sh*t- get over it Ok? Israel was created on stolen land without a SHRED of compassion for the poor P
45 ME AVN FAN : a point ? well, not really. BUT, most countries have laws against extremism and terrorism, and a TV- or radio-station of Hizb'Ullah clearly meets the
46 Erikwilliam : because it´s God´s promissed land man, don´t you know they´r the choosen people. Who are those arabs to stand in between God´s will. disgusting
47 Emirates773ER : That is virtually impossible. Sadly I must add.
48 Jetset25j : Us? Your the one including yourself with terrorists by saying that, not the media. When say the topic to be debated is terrorism, showing what the ac
49 Post contains images Alberchico : Oh I'm sorry I didn't know having honest open debate was stirring a hornets nest
50 Raffik : They deliberatley rile the Arab community on here- I have come to the conclusion that this is intentional and not just them being "honest".
51 QR332 : He can choose whatever damn flag he wants, mind your own business Windshear! Living abroad and being proud of where your from is something perfectly a
52 Raffik : I've come to that conclusion also. I give as good as I get. There is an awful amount of hostility towards the Arab population on this forum- it is bo
53 Mrniji : Yes, and I have reported this to the mods in the past, without effect: I am wondering when those who propagate hate will be sanctioned accordingly
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Another Black Eye For The Muslim World posted Sun Jun 30 2002 04:52:49 by Alpha 1
Required Muslim Dress Code posted Sun Nov 26 2006 20:55:08 by Silverfox
Is Canada Flirting With Another Unity Crisis? posted Thu Nov 23 2006 06:26:46 by SKYSERVICE_330
Self Gloss: Nighthawk Gets Another Payrise! posted Mon Nov 20 2006 15:39:14 by Nighthawk
Dutch Government Bans Muslim Burqas! posted Fri Nov 17 2006 19:34:21 by Travelin man
Another Photoshop Challenge! posted Fri Nov 17 2006 04:40:44 by TedTAce
I'm Changing My Faith To Muslim posted Sat Nov 11 2006 21:38:05 by Silverfox
Yet Another Beating By LA Police posted Fri Nov 10 2006 22:44:36 by BristolFlyer
Caption Another Pic. posted Thu Nov 9 2006 20:43:02 by 9V
Most Un-islamic Muslim Elected Rep In Minnesota posted Wed Nov 8 2006 23:53:20 by RAPCON