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Iraq 3 Years Later, Your Views  
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

It has been three years since the invasion. Saddam is gone. Elections have taken place. No WMDs, billions spent, thousands killed. Im just stirring the pot a bit, lets hear some good debate please.

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineByronsterk From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

Well, to be very honest, i think Iraq was better of with Saddam then without him. I'm not talking about the pepole he killed (which of course is terrible) but Iraq in general. You have to admit, it's a mess. American's and European's that keep saying that the power is all in the Iraqi's hands, while it isn't completely.

As for the elections, can you really say they were as fair as any civilized Democratic country? Like the USA (with the exception of George w. Bush) or the U.K or Germany? These 'Elections' were somehow corrupt and irrelieable.

And the so called government that has been formed, who do you think still has the power in Iraq? Not that government that's for sure...

In all, a quick summary can say that it is a mess in Iraq.

I think it's 50/50 here as to pepole thinking that it was wrong of the USA to invade Iraq. My opinion: They should never have done it, along with Afghanistan and other long gone wars like Vietnam.

(i will be gone next week so unfortunatly i can't participate for the greatest part in this debate.



Helicopters can't fly, there just so ugly the earth repells them...
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 1):
My opinion: They should never have done it, along with Afghanistan and other long gone wars like Vietnam.

What do you know of Vietnam? My curiosity is piqued based solely on the age you list for yourself in your profile.

Furthermore, what know you of Afghanistan. At best you were 12, at worst you were 7 years old when 9/11 occured. On what do you base your opinion that Afghanistan was an error? Did you lose any friends/family on 9/11?


Bushpilot, my Dillingham friend . . .

You know of course this thread will turn rapidly into the same bash fest amongst the same members.

WMD, No WMD . . .

Saddam, no Saddam . . .

Al Queda, no Al Queda . . .

On and on . . . and then some idiot will pop in here with some entirely new conspiracy theory . . .

I'll be utterly amazed if anyone - anyone - presents anything new or different. What I suspect is the same old thing . . . .


User currently offlineAircop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

By any measure it hasn't been a success. To many people have died for what. (In people I am included the Iraq people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time); to many people have been seriously injured that will effect them for the rest of their life, (and our government wants to cut VA funding). The end result the President got a photo op on an aircraft carrier; the neo-cons got their wish in getting rid of Saddam; and the world will be stuck with another unstable government that will be influenced by Iran, and the prospect of a civil war like what happen in the Balkans. And I didn't even mention the financial cost to the USA taxpayers for the many years ahead .

User currently offlineByronsterk From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
My curiosity is piqued based solely on the age you list for yourself in your profile.

Now just what cind of redicoulous thing is that to say. Even if i was 10 when 9/11 happend (i'm 15 now) that doesn't mean i can't know a lot about it. Same goed for Vietnam and i'm positively that was a horrible thing to do of the USA but that's been long forgotten thankfully.

Just because i'm youg doesn't mean i'm stupid... and 10 year olds can watch the news.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Did you lose any friends/family on 9/11?

Maybe you seem to forget that 9/11 is not the only terrorist act there was. Did you lose any family in 9/11? If so, my condolences. Yet probably just like me you didn't lose any family or friends at 9/11. So that's based on absolutely nothing.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Furthermore, what know you of Afghanistan.

I know it has a lot of oil... and that Bin Laden is yet to be found there.

However Europeans and Americans will always think different about this and obviously our ages also make the nessecery differences in possible opinion.

And one one point i couldn't agree more with you, were just going to get the same old yes/no discussion out of this topic.



Helicopters can't fly, there just so ugly the earth repells them...
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21528 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 1):
My opinion: They should never have done it, along with Afghanistan and other long gone wars like Vietnam.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on Afghanistan. That war was very necessary, as the Taliban was harboring people directly responsible for the 9/11 attacks (in addition to being a first-class bunch of fundamentalist idiots), and would not bring them to justice. That war was just, and it was supported by most of the rest of the world (including France, Germany, et al who stayed out of Iraq).

As far as Iraq goes, it hasn't been pretty, and god knows there's been more money and lives (both US and Iraqi) wasted there than most people care to think about. The number one thing that comes to my mind is awful mismanagement and failure of leadership at the upper levels in the government (including the President and Cabinet). This could have been all but over already, but it seems that only now have we stopped the policy of taking three steps forward and two steps back. Iraq may be better off now than it was before in terms of freedoms, but it's far worse in terms of stability, and with the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds unable to get along and work together in the government, with civil war looking like a distinct possibililty, I do wonder how much worse it has to get before it gets better.

Before the war, I had serious questions about how capable the Iraqis were of handling democracy. I don't think the government took that issue seriously enough, and we (and the Iraqis) are paying the price.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 1):
i think Iraq was better of with Saddam then without him.

Thought I dont quite agree with the war, that is utter BS. ANC, you should be happy to hear me say that.

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 1):
These 'Elections' were somehow corrupt and irrelieable.

By whose standards? the general concensus among anyone who knows or cares is that the elections were free and fair.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Bushpilot, my Dillingham friend . . .

You know of course this thread will turn rapidly into the same bash fest amongst the same members.

I know I know ANC, but hey nobody else mentioned the war started three years ago. Thought Id take the opportunity to stir the pot a bit. Im at work for a bit today wasting time, figured this would make it pass quickly. How about meeting up sometime when Im in town? Id love to sit down and chat with ya.


Quoting Aircop (Reply 3):
and the prospect of a civil war like what happen in the Balkans.

I am afraid civil war is pretty much going on. Another 22 bodies found today in secular violence, more than 500 iraqis killed by iraqis in less than a month.


User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
I'm going to have to disagree with you on Afghanistan. That war was very necessary, as the Taliban was harboring people directly responsible for the 9/11 attacks (in addition to being a first-class bunch of fundamentalist idiots), and would not bring them to justice

 checkmark 

In Iraq-
I believe Saddam had to be removed.And that's done.
As I said before,a timetable should be established for pull
out as to have everyone understand,unlike the attitude in Vietnam
were the US was the comfort zone,we cannot repeat that mistake
in Iraq.The Iraqi political house must be put in order.I would put
a time frame of 18 months on it.



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
Now just what cind of redicoulous thing is that to say.

It's a valid question - and thus far a valid response hasn't been provided.

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
Just because i'm youg doesn't mean i'm stupid

Didn't say that you were.


Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
Yet probably just like me you didn't lose any family or friends at 9/11.

Incorrect.

Lacey B. Ivory, Army Sergeant Major, 43, Missouri

Larry L. Strickland. Army Sergeant Major, 52, Washington

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
I know it has a lot of oil...

Wrong country . . .

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
However Europeans and Americans will always think different about this and obviously our ages also make the nessecery differences in possible opinion.

Seems to me the Americans and Europeans were pretty much in concert over Afghanistan . . . many of European friends have troops there at this very minute. Perhaps that news profess to watch should be reviewed for accuracy.

I think you better get back to studying up on this . . .

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):
Thought I dont quite agree with the war, that is utter BS. ANC, you should be happy to hear me say that.

Hey I know you don't agree with the war, but you're obviously not stupid . . .  wink 

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):
How about meeting up sometime when Im in town? Id love to sit down and chat with ya.

Absolutely . . . any time . . . drop me an e-mail to my A-Net contact in the profile and it's beer-thirty when you arrive!  thumbsup 


User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
I know it has a lot of oil... and that Bin Laden is yet to be found there.

Afghanistan doesnt have much of either.

Quoting Psa53 (Reply 7):
The Iraqi political house must be put in order.I would put a time frame of 18 months on it.

You should run for Potus, thats more of an answer we are getting out of him. Though I am not sure 18 months is remotely close, at the rate things are going now it will possibly be a decade before we see any real good come out of this. Right now there is little electricity, less actually than when Saddam was in power, clean water is at a premium, and there are even fuel shortages. Imagine Iraq having a fuel shortage.
My biggest fear since the removal of Saddam is happening. Civil war. Secular violence is growing every day, the central government is accomlishing little to stop it. The religious radicals are inciting it, and the citizens are dying for it.
I will say that when this is all said and done, the american people better be paying close to nothing at the gas pumps.


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

It's both depressing and hope-inspiring. I totally disagree with the motivation for war and the misrepresentation thereof, and I think that another dictator will eventually wind up in Saddam's palaces, the next in a long line.

Still, I hope that the folks who are just trying to live their lives and get by day-to-day will gain a modicum of security, freedom and opportunity out of the whole mess. History will tell whether the benefits gained for the world outweigh the destruction wrought, but isn't that the case in most wars?



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1941 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
I'll be utterly amazed if anyone - anyone - presents anything new or different.

You're probably right. What's done is done, and rehashing all that crap probably gets us nowhere.

I do believe, however, that the time is quickly approaching where we need to start making some serious plans about when and how we are going to leave Iraq. It is well past time for the Iraqis to step up in a meaningful and significant way regarding their own security.

Earlier this month the only Iraqi Army battalion that was rated as being capable of independent combat operations was downgraded to a lower level of preparedness.

That is not the result of poor training. That is the result of a profound lack of willingness to defend their own country. We cannot train people to do that. We can train people to engage with and destroy the enemy, but we cannot train them to care. That is something they must do for themselves.

There has been more than enough time to train up Iraqi security forces. Lack of time is not the problem, and additional time is not the solution.

The time for military solutions in Iraq is over and probably has been for some time. The problems in Iraq are social, cultural, and political. Only the Iraqis can address those issues. It's time to bring our men and women home and let the chips fall where they may.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1941 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
However Europeans and Americans will always think different about this [Afghanistan] and obviously our ages also make the nessecery differences in possible opinion.

Who or which organization exactly opposed to the war on Afghanistan? As said by ANC, the USA, Europe, NATO and UNO have all been in concert.

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 1):
These 'Elections' were somehow corrupt and irrelieable.

Granted, the election itself was free (and voter participation was high) but not fair. But the real problem is that there is still no elected government.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

Quoting Psa53 (Reply 7):
The Iraqi political house must be put in order.

Only the Iraqis themselves can do that. The US military cannot; wrong tool for the job.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 13):
Only the Iraqis themselves can do that.

Oh,agreed!So,why prolong a problem about a part of the world who aren't
to hot about the democratic process to begin with?



<

[Edited 2006-03-19 02:50:14]


Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 4):
I know it has a lot of oil...

No my friend, It has a lot of Heroin!!

I personally don't think one can compare between the war in Afganistan and the one in Iraq. They're two different wars with 2 different outcomes!
Afganistan was a Success! Iraq........not so much!


User currently offlineFlyguyAZ From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

You know, I am a die hard Democrat, but I was behind George W Bush in the weeks and months following 9/11-- I was actually kind've proud of him at the beginning of the war in Afghanistan....but then came Iraq.

This has got to be the costliest mistake in history for the US in the way of international relations. I remember traveling to Europe in 2002 and seeing American flags still flying alongside French flags on homes in Normandy-- still thankful for the American involvement in WWII. But when I went back in 2005, it was completely different. Holding an American passport no longer felt like an honor, it felt like a liability.

Iraq was a colossal mistake- some people believe that democracy can flourish anywhere-- but democracy cannot be forced on people or a nation. That sort of change has to come from within. At the very least it cannot come by military force from a nation half a world away.

And while the US is busy now managing the quagmire in Iraq, Al Qaeda remains a threat to Europe and America- and Bin Laden is nowhere to be found.

Most educated people have known since day one that Bush was incompetent and inept. Now everyone else is slowly pulling their blinders off too. And the tragic part is that he did have a chance to really shine in the days after 9/11-- if he had not railroaded his own "War on Terror" by invading a sovereign nation and diverting attention, money, and resources from the real center of terrorism, he might have become the FDR of the 21st century.



Future ER Doc!
User currently offlineTERRA From Iraq, joined Aug 1999, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

Hasn't this subject been flogged to death by now in the numerous other threads?

As ANCFlyer says it will turn into the normal bashing  box  and i can't be bothered to keep repeating the same old arguments.  banghead 


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9303 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting FlyguyAZ (Reply 16):

That was very well put.

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 1):
i think Iraq was better of with Saddam then without him

I think I am beginning to agree with this statement.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineByronsterk From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Incorrect.

Lacey B. Ivory, Army Sergeant Major, 43, Missouri

Larry L. Strickland. Army Sergeant Major, 52, Washington

Well then i'm sorry for saying that, my condolences.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Wrong country . . .

you are right, i was wrong with that. Stupid thing to say.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Seems to me the Americans and Europeans were pretty much in concert over Afghanistan . . . many of European friends have troops there at this very minute. Perhaps that news profess to watch should be reviewed for accuracy

yes, the governments were very in concert about it. But i don't recall anything being asked to the pepole (here in this county).

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Didn't say that you were.

no but maybe you can understand that it can make me feel like you do mean that, even if you don't.



Helicopters can't fly, there just so ugly the earth repells them...
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 19):
Well then i'm sorry for saying that, my condolences.

No worries, you couldn't know . . .

Here, check this if you'd like:
http://www.september11victims.com/se...ber11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=279
http://www.september11victims.com/se...ber11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=338
I knew others that were killed - only casually - but I'd known Lacey since the late 1970s and Larry since the Academy in 1995.


FlyGuy - interesting perspective you put forward . . . I know many folks that feel the same way. I agree with some of it in fact. I do take issue with this comment however:

Quoting FlyguyAZ (Reply 16):
Most educated people have known since day one that Bush was incompetent and inept.

How do you qualify this? "Most educated people" . . . . you can't make a blanket statement like this - which is obviously an opinion and not fact. Not to worry though, I'm not insulted . . . you are afterall a Democrat  wink 


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

Quoting Byronsterk (Reply 19):
yes, the governments were very in concert about it. But i don't recall anything being asked to the pepole (here in this county).

And I don't recall any protests that would be worth to be mentioned. The Taliban were urged to hand over Bin Laden but refused to. Thus they protected mass murders who attacked a country and made war more or less unevitable. Attacking Afghanistan was certainly the lesser evil.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineBBiter From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

I see some people on this thread advocating some sort of withdrawl timetable the argument being that its now up to the Iraqis to fend for themselves. Yes, I'm sure Zarquawi and his bunch would just love that.

HELLOOOOO?!?!?! Reality check please! GWB started this mess, and like it or not the US will have to be there for a looooooong time, probably beyond 2010. There is absoultely no justification for a US withdrawl before there is at least some semblence of stability/security in Iraq. And lets face it, the situation is just getting worse.

Dubya and his cronies underestimated what they were getting into. Not enough troops and wrong priorities. By wrong priorities I mean that they spent too many resources in finding non-existent WMD and Baath party officials instead of securing conventional weapons depots. And not securing the borders was another blunder in an endless series of blunders.

It seems that situation in the mid-east is a result of a series of US foreign policy mistakes. What we see today is the direct result of Bush senior's mistake of not finishing off Saddam when he had the opportunity in 1991. His mentally inferior son used 9/11 as a pretext for correcting that mistake. Only he grossly underestimated what he was getting into. Consequently, the west and the Iraqi people will pay the price for many years to come.


User currently offlineSoylentgreen From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 244 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Cheney today (March 19th) stated on TV that there is no civil war in Iraq. Also said that the war can be won.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21412 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Quoting Soylentgreen (Reply 23):
Cheney today (March 19th) stated on TV that there is no civil war in Iraq. Also said that the war can be won.

It must be absolutely true then.  mischievous 


25 Post contains images S12PPL : My view? Boy....we sure f**ked that up, didn't we? Good thing Bush knows what he's doing!
26 RichardPrice : The Iraq invasion was not a legitimate action - thats my view now, that was my view 3 years ago and thats always been my view. Saddam was an evil dict
27 NoUFO : The non-existent civil war can be won?
28 Post contains links Soylentgreen : Just reciting today's news from www.nytimes.com NoUFO. Personally, I think the Iraqi War is the shame of the American people, who sadly voted Bush in
29 Falcon84 : My view hasn't changed: it was a mistake to start the war; we didn't have enough troops to occupy the nation; we didn't have a gameplan for winning th
30 NoUFO : I know you just quoted the news, and it's obvious, Mr. Cheney meant to say the war on terror can be won, but something along the line "there's no civ
31 11Bravo : It is astonishing to me that anyone listens to the VP on this issue. The record is littered with his comments and predictions that time and time agai
32 ANCFlyer : Because Grunt - he listened to the field commanders. That is something I don't think is happening with Rummy and consequently, it's being fed to PotU
33 Bushpilot : I think that is true to the point, but the politics of the first war were entirely different. We had a true coalition, and a UN mandate. When Kuwait
34 ANCFlyer : Rummy runs the Pentagon like a dictatorship. Not only have I seen this personally, but I have many acquaintances either still there or having been as
35 Post contains images 9VSPO : And it's worse there now than it's ever been!
36 Bushpilot : Thanks for the quick reply, I really havent paid much attention to him rather focusing on the white house. But your comments on his arrogance is spot
37 11Bravo : Rumsfeld may have provided some bad advise and leadership, but when it's all said and done George Bush is the crux of the problem. He is the Commande
38 Klaus : It's being said that only Nixon after Watergate experienced a similar ratings low.
39 Post contains images ANCFlyer : We have . . . Never heard that before - interesting concept. Quite true - as has been said before - after the initial invasion, there was no plan . .
40 Derico : To be perfectly honest almost no-one cares about Iraq around these parts anymore. It barely makes any news.
41 Bushpilot : Granted and I agree a bunch with this statement, but you will never see him do anything of the sort. He who fails to look back at thier actions objec
42 Mir : I think you're right, but I think there's an additional element: Let's assume for the sake of argument that Rumsfeld is the SecDef in principle as we
43 Post contains links 11Bravo : That's not my original thought by any means. There have been a number of senior "former" administration officials that have suggested that the VP has
44 Post contains images Boeing nut : The area was defintely more stable. This is one of the most tragic cases of tunnel vision in history. My other thoughts are this - 1 - It is a fact n
45 Klaus : No. The available intelligence was the same all over - but only the US government (and to some degree the british one) misrepresented what they had u
46 Soylentgreen : Klaus, I agree with your points, especially that it can happen all over again. Clarification on one stat-polls showed 80%+ in favvor of the Iraqi inva
47 ANCFlyer : Which is the same question I've asked countless times. Which is the same reply I've given countless times. Dumsfeld should have been gone . . . long
48 Post contains links 11Bravo : Actually, Klaus is correct although I've never seen the number as high as 80%. In fact 47% of the American public still believe that. http://www.harr
49 Post contains links Klaus : I can't remember the actual source for that particular number, but this PEW survey shows that that false belief was in fact held by more than two thi
50 Post contains images ZRH : Oh yes, then it must be true..... Fortunately almost everybody knows that when Bush and Cheney open their mouths only utter bullshit and lies come ou
51 Seb146 : I think Bush41 knew that pushing on to Bagdad was not popular among the European and Middle Eastern governmnets. We all knew back then Saddam was a r
52 Post contains images Bushpilot : I blame Bush because he has the ultimate decision, but he is way to quick to listen to his hawkish advisors(Cheney, Rummy) who did turn evidence arou
53 Post contains links and images ANCFlyer : Sorry, couldn't help myself . . . Rummy might have SAID that, and might even have DONE that (in principal), but his arrogance won't allow him to resi
54 Post contains links and images KaiGywer : I don't know whether I agree with the war or not, but I do know I support the Troops that are there doing the dirty work. This war became personal for
55 Mir : A valid point. However, I feel that it can be forgiven based on the intelligence that was around at the time, not only in the US but abroad. Remember
56 11Bravo : The real issue there isn't the bad intelligence in my view. As you suggest, almost everyone who was in a position to have an informed opinion on Iraq
57 BBiter : I still contend that not getting rid of Saddam back in 1991 was a huge mistake. Bush41 (with his CIA background) could've come up with a whole range
58 11Bravo : It certainly would have been possible militarily. We could have easily defeated what was left of the Iraqi Army and gone on to Baghdad in two weeks.
59 NoUFO : Correct. Add to this, that removing Hussein from power would never have found the UN Security Council's approval. That's not so much Bush Senior's fa
60 Bushpilot : Im not going to disagree so much as play the devils advocate. 9-11 happened under his watch, he told one of his advisors he didnt need anymore daily
61 Theredbaron : 3 years and we have: -On the Iraq side...... Thousands of deaths. A semidestroyed capital and infraestructure in shambles A lot of the population with
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