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Why Is Legalization Of Illegal Aliens Wrong?  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Illegal aliens should be deported. That's my gut feeling. However, there is an argument that illegals shouldn't be deported, but rather legalized. What is wrong with this argument?

There are plenty of things that were once illegal, but are now legal. Possession of alcohol, traditionally legal, was once illegal under Prohibition, but has long since again become legal.

Further, there are things that are illegal, and for which punishment remains prescribed, and yet for which a form of legalization is accepted. For example, in some states, a prior criminal offense can be wiped off the record as though it never existed.

What is it about immigration that makes legalization of it wrong, immoral, or unique?

Here are some possible answers:

1. Threats to sovereignty. The influx of illegals amounts to an invasion that undermines the ability of the United States to control its own destiny.

2. Threats to our culture. Many illegals refuse to or are unable to assimilate.

3. Innate unfairness. Why should illegals jump the line when legal immigrants have to wait years to come to this country?

4. Devaluation of U.S. citizenship. Citizenship means less when anyone can come here without invitation and become legalized. (Contra: Is this really an argument against legalization? I believe that this argument runs up against the idea that it is open to society to forgive instances of past illegality on the part of those already here without giving up the right to bar future instances by different individuals who remain outside our country.)

5. Climate of illegality. Countenancing the illegal act of violating our borders legitimizes wholesale illegality, and legalization of this illegal act opens the door to anarchy, even though the government sometimes does offer forms of amnesty to its own citizens (e.g., tax amnesty).

6. Magnitude of crime. While certain crimes are deemed worthy of forgiveness, such forgiveness is given by due authority (e.g., the courts). Authority has never deemed violation of our border laws of such little magnitude as to warrant forgiveness.

7. Immorality of net drain on resources. Illegals take far more than they contribute to our society.

8. Imposition of "slave wages". Businesses that employ illegals immorally exploit the cheap labor they provide and gravely undermine U.S. standards of living.

What is your opinion on this matter? Please elaborate. Thank you in advance.

[Edited 2006-03-23 11:59:03]

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

I was unable to include a ninth consideration before the time for editing the above message expired:

9. Failure of past amnesties. We know from experience that past amnesties merely served as invitations for other waves of illegals.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Illegal aliens should be deported. That's my gut feeling. However, there is an argument that illegals shouldn't be deported, but rather legalized. What is wrong with this argument?

Then what's the purpose of having immigration laws? A country has the right to control who comes into the country. Right now the enforcement of our immigration laws is a joke. The laws serve to keep law abiding people out and serves as nothing more than an inconvenience to those who are willing to break them.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 2):
Then what's the purpose of having immigration laws? A country has the right to control who comes into the country. Right now the enforcement of our immigration laws is a joke. The laws serve to keep law abiding people out and serves as nothing more than an inconvenience to those who are willing to break them.

This is the comparable to the highway speed law that most people have broken. Who among us hasn't exceeded the posted limit? And yet the law does exist.

Further, the above example supports a previous point -- that individuals often ask for amnesty in the form of leniency for themselves in a non-immigration context. Most people, upon being apprehended by an officer on the highway, would not hesitate to offer an excuse or welcome a warning in lieu of a ticket. If so, why shouldn't illegals lobby for legalization? And if they can lobby, why shouldn't their cause be granted?


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1943 times:
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It's illegal. Period. Kick them out and invite them back the legal way, like many other people.




911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1937 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 4):
It's illegal. Period. Kick them out and invite them back the legal way, like many other people.

I agree. But I would like to be absolutely confident about the reasons I'm kicking thme out.

Personally, I think that illegals should be immediately deported, but obviously a lot of Republicans and most Democrats seem to disagree. Most other Americans, in fact, seem to disagree.

Further, even absent deportation, the Bush Administration and most Democrats seem to support some kind of amnesty for illegals. I want to explore the best way to counter their arguments.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1934 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 5):
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 4):
It's illegal. Period. Kick them out and invite them back the legal way, like many other people.

I agree. But I would like to be absolutely confident about the reasons I'm kicking thme out.

Here you go . . .

Scenario #1:

Did you enter this country legally?

Answer: Yes . . . .

Result: None.


Scenario #2:

Did you enter this country illegally?

Answer: Yes . . .

Result: Bye Bye on the first thing smokin . . . period, dot, end, next?

No discussion, no mitigation, no gawddamn nuthin. Bye Bye.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1929 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
No discussion, no mitigation, no gawddamn nuthin. Bye Bye.

I agree that this seems a very inviting approach to people like you and me.

But why, then, do so many American seem to resist just deporting these guys?

Also, there are maybe twenty million illegals in this country. Is it physically possible to track them all down and kick them out?

Let's remember, as well, that many of them have children in this country, and if born here, such children are U.S. citizens regardless of the illegality of their parents.

[Edited 2006-03-23 17:52:46]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1927 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
But why, then, do so many American seem to resist just deporting these guys?

Simple Answer again: $$$$$$$

This is not rocket science Aero . . . .

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
Let's remember, as well, that many of them have children in this country, and if born here, such children are U.S. citizens regardless of the illegality of their parents.

And this has what to do with the parents that are illegal immigrants?


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
And this has what to do with the parents that are illegal immigrants?

Where do we keep the kids? Do we deport them, too? They're U.S. citizens.

I agree with you about the money aspect -- money (profit) does motivate a lot of this support for illegals. And so do some of the Democrats' need for a disenfranchised underclass to help them out during elections.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
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Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Here you go . . .

Exactly. I worked my way in here, why should they get off easier?

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
But why, then, do so many American seem to resist just deporting these guys?

Because they want their pools cleaned and lawns mowed while they sit on their fat, lazy asses and watch tv and eat tofu burgers....



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 10):
Because they want their pools cleaned and lawns mowed while they sit on their fat, lazy asses and watch tv and eat tofu burgers....

That's very sad. Are we willing to let our culture go to pot (with all the lack of assimilation, quasi-separatism, etc.), and our social expenses skyrocket, just for a cheap gardener?

Did gardens go ungardened before slave-like illegal labor? I would hope that most Americans would realize that they did not.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1891 times:
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Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
That's very sad. Are we willing to let our culture go to pot (with all the lack of assimilation, quasi-separatism, etc.), and our social expenses skyrocket, just for a cheap gardener?

But they don't. As long as they can pay someone $5/hr under the table to do all their dirty work, they won't change. Unfortunately.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
Did gardens go ungardened before slave-like illegal labor? I would hope that most Americans would realize that they did not.

No, because people didn't have 500 TV channels, computers, etc.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

It's a tough call considering I have an illegal friend down in Miami (Agent Johnson from the FBI reading this will soon be calling me). However, I do believe that illegal aliens should not be legalized. Legal immigrants go through a lot to become residents and, most importantly, we pay taxes and are not exempt of a military draft (however one cannot enlist in the military voluntarily if you're not a citizen, at least I was told that).

So bottom line is illegal aliens should not be given amnesty.

Stefano  wave 


User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
Let's remember, as well, that many of them have children in this country, and if born here, such children are U.S. citizens regardless of the illegality of their parents.

I thought they had already passed a law that a son of illegal immigrants born in the US would not be a US Citizen. Or is the law about to be passed? I know I heard something like that.

Stefano  wave 


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1887 times:
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Quoting Komododx (Reply 13):
(however one cannot enlist in the military voluntarily if you're not a citizen, at least I was told that)

One only needs a green card valid long enough to cover the entire time you enlist for. Certain positions within the military require top secret clearance, however, and that is only given to citizens.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 15):
One only needs a green card valid long enough to cover the entire time you enlist for. Certain positions within the military require top secret clearance, however, and that is only given to citizens.

You sure? I went up to an Air Force recruiting office and the recruiter told me to come back when I was a Citizen.

In a way, I'm glad it worked that way.

Stefano  wave 


User currently offlineFomea From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 849 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1875 times:

Quoting Komododx (Reply 16):
You sure? I went up to an Air Force recruiting office and the recruiter told me to come back when I was a Citizen.

In a way, I'm glad it worked that way.

That doesnt sound right.

Here is the info from http://www.airforce.com/

Enlistment into the U.S. Air Force, by citizens of countries other than the United States is limited to those foreign nationals who are legally residing in the United States and possess an Immigrations and Naturalization Service Alien Registration Card (INS Form I-151/551 -- Commonly known as a "Green Card"). Applicants must be between 17 and 27; meet the mental, moral, and physical standards for enlistment; and must speak, read and write English fluently.

Regards
F-OMEA.



On the internet you can be anything you want..its strange so many choose to be Stupid.
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1875 times:
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Quoting Komododx (Reply 16):
You sure? I went up to an Air Force recruiting office and the recruiter told me to come back when I was a Citizen.

He obviously didn't know what he was talking about, unless you said you were only interested in a certain job (which might have top secret requirements).



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1872 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
But why, then, do so many American seem to resist just deporting these guys?

As someone else said, its economics and politics. We piss of the %16 of the voters who are hispanic/latin etc if we enforce the law more.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
Is it physically possible to track them all down and kick them out?

No will never happen.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
Did gardens go ungardened before slave-like illegal labor?

Well no, but it was a different group of folks doing the work. It was blacks and asians.

The problem with this is that it is a law enforcement issue that is being handcuffed by politicians. No president has had the balls needed to really put the people and money it is going to take to secure our border especially the southern one. Another typical Bush hypocracy of doing his best to make us safe from terrorism, yet still we have a very porous border on all sides, Canada, Mexico and the oceans. Very little is being done, a finger nail file will shut down an airport for the afternoon, but hundreds if not thousands of people cross the border every day. You have to guard the borders and also put some real hurting on folks who are hiring the illegals.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1867 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):
This is the comparable to the highway speed law that most people have broken. Who among us hasn't exceeded the posted limit? And yet the law does exist.

I would assume that warnings issued in the hopes that it will influence behavior (i.e. reduce speeding). I don't believe that anyone would argue that a catch and release program with respect to illegal aliens in any way reduces illegal immigration. In fact, I would argue that it increases it.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

I've had the opportunity to further reflect about this issue in the last few days, and -- thanks, ironically, in part to the pro-illegal protests in the last two days -- I have reached the following conclusion:

We cannot allow hand-wringing to affect our future, and our children's future.

Legislation that would make illegal immigration a felony, and not merely a misdemeanor, should be passed. Furthermore, such legislation should be enforced and police chiefs or other authorities who do not enforce them should be prosecuted.

Bush's "guest worker" program should be rejected, and we should do what we can to permanently deport those illegals who cannot demonstrate extraordinary hardship, such as their status as parents of young children who are U.S. citizens.

Further, we should require those who do qualify for the extraordinary hardship exception to register, leave this country with their children or leave them with citizen relatives, and re-apply for entry (not citizenship) with special, favorable consideration for their family status. After entry, they would qualify for further special consideration for legalization.

In the meantime, we should pass proposed legislation depriving children of illegals automatic status as U.S. citizens.

Finally, we ensure that our border laws are enforced, using military means if necessary.

Enough is enough.

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:45:17]

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):
This is the comparable to the highway speed law that most people have broken. Who among us hasn't exceeded the posted limit? And yet the law does exist.

Bad example. Speed limits are often set too low in order to allow local communities to make money on speeding tickets. Especially where it's 55 mph on straight interstate highways in cars that are designed to be stable at 150 mph. Stupid laws will frequently be ignored.

But the right of the USA to know who is crossing its border is not a stupid law. That is a law that must be followed without fail.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 9):
Where do we keep the kids? Do we deport them, too? They're U.S. citizens.

That is a big problem. The only thing I can think of is a constitutional amendment to say that the US birthright is invalid if the parents are not in the country legally.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
Are we willing to let our culture go to pot (with all the lack of assimilation, quasi-separatism, etc.), and our social expenses skyrocket, just for a cheap gardener?

That just about describes it. You also have a class of politicians who want to exploit the votes of a large class of poor immigrants.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

I'm glad we agree, Cfalk.

A country that allows invaders to come in and claim the "right" to stay because they're "hard workers" and "love this country" (even though their first act in this country is to break our law by being here illegally) is a weak country subject to the selfish whims of foreign governments.

Nor is the argument from "love of America" persuasive. If they love us so much, they should love our laws, as well. You cannot love a country only for its economic opportunity and, in defiance of the majority's desires, expect -- let alone demand -- to be treated as a citizen because of it. A country is more than a place to make money. A country that is used for economic benefit is not loved; rather, it is exploited.

America is showing weakness when it fails to deport illegals. Mexico, which demands that the U.S. accept its illegals, itself promptly and ruthlessly deports its own illegals, mostly from its southern border. Mexico, ironically, is a stronger country in this regard than the United States.

I find Bush's appeasement of the Mexican government by pushing for guest workers galling enough. If the pro-illegal alien lobby had its way, the government would grant anmesty and institute an open border between the U.S. and Mexico.

Further, when a border between two countries disappears, and one decides that its citizens can freely move into the other regardless of what the citizens of the other think, what does that remind you of?

Yes: As people like Lou Dobbs of CNN would agree, an invasion.

And to say that America is a nation of immigrants is to misstate the nature of immigration. Immigration was never meant as a means by which one nation demanded that another accept those it could not handle. Did Ireland demand that America accept illegal Irish immigrants? Did Italy? In fact, in recent times, only Mexico has prominently and publicly demanded that a so-called "humane" policy amounting to open borders be instituted as official U.S. law. This is arrogant presumption, it seems to me, for no country should be able to tell America what America's own border enforcement requirements should be.

Finally, the politics of ethnic solidarity that L.A. Mayor Villagarosa is playing merely plays into the worst fears of those who fear that among some Hispanics, skin color is more important than law, and that economic benefits are more important than democratic rule. There are 20 million illegals in this country, and yet every recent poll indicates that the majority of Californians and Americans favor increased restrictions on illegal immigration.

Should the demands of 20 million illegals triumph over the wishes of 280 million citizens? One should hope not.

[Edited 2006-03-27 07:08:14]

User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1746 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
3. Innate unfairness. Why should illegals jump the line when legal immigrants have to wait years to come to this country?

The number of immigrants who are able to cross the border legally from Mexico and the rest of Latin America are quite small in comparison to the number of people who need to get across the border to help their families. The only way that can be solved is by making a guest worker program and stop being so snobbish towards people trying to make a different life.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
7. Immorality of net drain on resources. Illegals take far more than they contribute to our society.

MOst would be happy to pay taxes if they were asked to, but if they just volunteered to pay taxes, they would be deported, so that answers everyones questions about "why don't they pay taxes". And, even if they did pay taxes, most don't make enough to even have to pay income tax as they are cheated out of true wages.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
8. Imposition of "slave wages". Businesses that employ illegals immorally exploit the cheap labor they provide and gravely undermine U.S. standards of living.

That wouldn't be the case if we had a guest worker program....

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
But why, then, do so many American seem to resist just deporting these guys?



Quoting Komododx (Reply 13):
However, I do believe that illegal aliens should not be legalized. Legal immigrants go through a lot to become residents and, most importantly, we pay taxes and are not exempt of a military draft (however one cannot enlist in the military voluntarily if you're not a citizen, at least I was told that).

It is almost impossible for an immigrant from a country such as Guatemala to come here legally as opposed to someone from Ireland, but it is still difficult, but not impossible.

What people need to understand is that these people coming across the border are doing it because they have no choice. They are real people, and if a better life can be achieved by going north, would you stop because a wall was in your way? Would you not want to help your family? People who seem to be so heartless towards them definetly need a reality check.


25 AerospaceFan : Snobbish? How about protective of our way of life? Who decides what is snobbish and what is not? Certainly not the people who insist on coming here d
26 KaiGywer : Illegals can't vote, but naturalized citizens can. I guess they don't care that they went though hoops to get where they are at. Oh please....since w
27 NA : Thats too easy and somewhat chauvinistic. The vast majority of illegal immigrants have no hope whatsoever other than trying to get a small peace of t
28 KaiGywer : Hmm, let me see. I am a Green Card holder, so I guess that does put me in their shoes. Can't follow the laws, then stay wherever you are at. If it is
29 Pope : While I support enforcement of our laws, I believe that the economic impact of this policy decision is being largely ignored. As is the case with the
30 MaverickM11 : How exactly do you plan to move 11 million people out of the country and backfill their jobs? That savings gets passed onto you. When the President o
31 KaiGywer : I didn't say it would be easy. Yes I would. I grew up with $2-3 cheeseburgers in Norway. Yes our wages are higher, but so is our standard of living.
32 MaverickM11 : These... ...don't square with each other. The reason the standard of living is so high in Norway is in part due to the huge state sponsored benefits,
33 Pope : Great now convince at least 100 million more Americans of that and we can begin to talk. But unfortunately, Americans vote with their wallets and the
34 Theredbaron : Some things to ponder: Ok let say they Kick out ALL inmigrants (far east, Latinos, Europeans, and African) Id put the number at 25 to 30 million guys.
35 Mham001 : We have no moral obligation to the foriegn families the illegals are trying to support back home. $20 BILLION dollars was shiped to Mexico last year
36 YeahitsK : Define "enforced." Do we want the police to actually protect us from crime because I don't think they'll be available if they're spending all their t
37 MaverickM11 : Aren't illegal aliens less likely to commit crimes since they came to the US precisely to avoid going back to their country of origin?
38 AerospaceFan : Thank you very much for your message, which I think is well-written and considerate. You are quite right -- some of my thoughts on this are still rat
39 YeahitsK : If they're smart, that's pretty much the game plan once they get on this side of the border- lay low and don't attract attention.
40 Airbus3801 : It's being snobbish because you just don't like people trying to make a better life. Lets see you if you lived in Sonora Mexico in a shack. Let's see
41 Joness0154 : Well, looks like i'm gonna go head down the street and rob my local bank. I'm doing it to better my life and pay off my 100k+ in student loans. Are y
42 Airbus3801 : It's your fault you got the student loans. These people don't have a choice of what life they were put into, they don't even have a chance. Labelling
43 Joness0154 : But i'm just trying to better my life by getting a college education. Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. The people coming here illegall
44 Airbus3801 : A) You weren't born into poverty living off the dump B) According to my dictionary, an immigrant is someone who has come to a country and settled the
45 AerospaceFan : I think that there is an implicit Marxism in the pro-illegal argument -- that economics determines and justifies just about everything. This disturbs
46 Jdwfloyd : You defending these people and saying they have as much right to be here as anyone else is a direct slap in the face to everyone that is or has come
47 Airbus3801 : Until the laws are changed, I am going to stand by those who are the hard workers doing the jobs we don't want to. It's our own fault if we refuse to
48 AerospaceFan : I strongly disagree. America is our house. We control the borders, and we can tell trespassers to leave. Certainly we will not be dictated to by fore
49 Aircraft : It's often difficult to deport aliens. For one thing, their space ships are way too fast for any of our jets or missiles to shoot them down. Due to t
50 Airbus3801 : Since when are these foreigners dictating our lands and ruling with the iron fist. Watch out for those illegals, they sure set up a good iron curtain
51 Cfalk : Let's make an analogy. You own a piece of land and you farm it. You do it well, and you are prosperous. Next door to you you have another farmer. He
52 Airbus3801 : Well what many crop owners these days are thinking is "Good I don't have to do it, I can pay him real cheap and still make a good profit". So your sa
53 Cfalk : That's the position of the California protestors the other day. They want to maintain the status quo to keep their cheap mexican maids. The mexican g
54 AndesSMF : Being from Ecuador and my wife from Mexico, I have a couple of points to add, that are usually not discussed. 1. Immigration and illegal immigration m
55 Post contains links and images Boeing7E7 : I love crap like this: Annette Medinoa, 14, a freshman at Mount Miguel High School, was among about 340 students protesting in Spring Valley. “I hav
56 Itsjustme : If they're here illegally, they've already committed a crime. Being here illegally and then living like a model citizen doesn't make them a model cit
57 Post contains images KaiGywer : And because the government don't hand out money unless you try and get a job, we don't have as much unemployment. In Norway, you get six months of un
58 MaverickM11 : While I agree, that will never change, and the trend seems to be toward more irresponsibility as a society. I understand, so tell me how you are goin
59 Joness0154 : Well, I bet no more than half of those people have jobs. In many cases that i've heard of it seems like they bring their whole family over to the US
60 Texdravid : I was avoiding this subject, but I couldn't take it anymore. The sense of entitlement and shamelessness with regards to the illegal immigrant crowd kn
61 AerospaceFan : Sadly, despite the efforts of those who desire to continue the experiment of American democracy, it seems that it was bound to happen: It is increasi
62 Post contains links AerospaceFan : Here is an interesting photograph that does nothing but alarm American citizens, of whatever background: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/azt
63 MaverickM11 : By whom? These people are making minimum wage with no benefits.
64 Boeing7E7 : People who would be making money above the minimum wage and receiving benefits thus growing the economy. Or, those who come here legally (like every
65 Post contains links AerospaceFan : I would remain concerned regarding the social costs, as illegals and their progeny tend not to do well in terms of education. For more information, p
66 MaverickM11 : Where are these millions of people going to come from?
67 Boeing7E7 : Given the family is central to the hispanic culture, I'm more concerned about "the family" becoming a burden on taxpayers vs. the ideals most hispanic
68 Scbriml : I say send all the illegals back home and give their low-paid, menial jobs to real Americans! Oh, just a minute.... Another advantage is that it would
69 Post contains links Joness0154 : http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/release.html Large-scale immigration from Mexico is a very recent phenomenon. In 1970, the Mexican immigrant p
70 KaiGywer : From in front of the TV enjoying their welfare checks. Learning languages is always good.
71 Prebennorholm : This issue about the ten odd million illegal US immigrants pops up every three-four years. Nothing happens. Nothing will ever happen. If they get dism
72 AerospaceFan : Under the proper circumstances, a graduated deportation program would take a number of years. There is plenty of time for accommodation of business i
73 MaverickM11 : Uh huh....good luck with that.
74 Airbus3801 : Except by defintion they are citizens as they were born in the US. I am sure you of all people spend your life talking with them and discussing their
75 KaiGywer : I see you are only reading what suits your view. I said the law needs revision. It should include a section stating that you will only be a US citize
76 Babybus : The reason immigrants are allowed and encouraged (by not being actively discouraged) is that they are economically insensitive and will consume more t
77 Gilligan : Simple, "line jumping is an excuse to be removed from the park".
78 Airbus3801 : Except this in no way is similiar to retarded teenagers jumping the lines at parks because that is not who the people are who are coming over
79 Boeing7E7 : 30+ years living in San Diego - evidence enough. Had enough of it and moved away. You're quite the piece of work.
80 NKP S2 : You know damned well where, and that this is just another loaded question to use as a forum to launch into another Adam Smithanista "free-market" fun
81 Gilligan : How is it not similar? You have people who are not willing to follow the rules, fill out the proper paperwork, wait in line for their turn to cross a
82 Texdravid : So, let me get this straight. I call for actually upholding the laws of the land, and I'm a racist. Please. Your racial whining does nothing to chang
83 Airbus3801 : Hmmmmm 15 years of living in Phoenix really hasn't forced me to move away. I am truly sorry that you couldn't stand being around such dirty and awful
84 Texdravid : I have never waved an Indian flag in public. It's not just the Mexican flag waving or the Osama chants at soccer games. It is the utter disrespect a
85 Boeing7E7 : You've seen nothing in Phoenix.
86 Post contains images Joness0154 : And the fact that its pretty hard to move away when you're under your parents' roof
87 MaverickM11 : No I don't. Enlighten me. How are you going to backfill 11 million jobs out of thin air when the unemployment rate is 5%. If every single American wa
88 TheRedBaron : Spot on !!!! Just to add more "fuel"..you are forgetting that Mexicans working in the USA send 23 billon dollars a year to Mexico (IN MONEY), well ac
89 Post contains links and images Joness0154 : "Less than half fit the profile of young men sneaking across the border to find jobs and send money back home to their families. Today, most bring th
90 Jwenting : illegals are criminals, so are the people that support them (because voluntarilly helping in the execution of a crime is itself a criminal offense). L
91 Airbus3801 : So by waving a different flag I am now disrespecting the US... your logical conclusions are limitless! And you would know why? I thought you were the
92 Boeing7E7 : Yup. This isn't about human rights. This is about ILLEGAL immigration.
93 Texdravid : Your coddling and sympathizing of illegal aliens and their illegal behavior is limitless as well. Viva Mexifornia, dude.
94 Airbus3801 : I respect the sacrifices and challenges they face unlike yourself Human rights play a huge role in illegal immigration, it keeps people like Jwenting
95 KaiGywer : Once you become a criminal, you lose your human rights in my opinion. Want to maintain your right? Don't be a damn criminal!
96 Boeing7E7 : Human rights? That's your call? Go to Mexico and help them, you might even get some support and/or sympathy. Help someone break the law? You must be
97 Airbus3801 : If a criminal is tried in any court, he is not treated like a dog as you think we should treat the immigrants. Would you say the same to a rapist or
98 Boeing7E7 : If they spent half as much energy trying to change their own country as they do trying to get into ours by illegal means, they wouldn't need you to h
99 Texdravid : How the hell would you know what sacrifices me and other LEGAL immigrants made to this country, oh exalted one? Why don't you do something constructi
100 KaiGywer : Can you please direct me to where I said they should be treated as dogs? Illegals, rapists, and robbers all have the right to a trial, and then a sen
101 Airbus3801 : I am happy that you could come here legally, but most can't oh exalted one. Wow how mature are you, me young teenager seems a little more intellectua
102 Texdravid : Oh, GAWD. I contribute more to this society before 9am that you will in your lifetime. Guaranteed. Sure they can, but they want the easy way in. Peop
103 Airbus3801 : And last time I checked you are so aware of how easy it is to gain access to this country legally from Latin America since when? Mexican racists? Now
104 Post contains links Joness0154 : http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/greencardlottery.html http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/visa_h2b.html http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/visa_
105 Post contains links Texdravid : http://www.adl.org/learn/Aztlan/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Aztl%C3%A1n Again, you are sadly mistaken. There ARE Mexican racists, and the
106 Airbus3801 : Yeah those seem real easy.. a lottery with millions of people or getting a VISA to do a non-agricultural job (which is what they are doing) with skil
107 Boeing7E7 : Just ask the Mayor of Los Angeles.
108 Abrelosojos : = Are you serious? Mexico is one of the most racist countries out there. Look at all the top leaders ... how many mirror the poor migrant worker who
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