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UK Public Service Strike Today  
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1336 times:

Were you affected in any way? Do you think workers were right to strike over pensions? I think they were. It's not their fault they are going to live longer!

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Thread starter):
Were you affected in any way?

I had to turn my neck to read a matrix on the M6 last night that read 'Mersey Tunnels Closed.' I'm thinking of suing somebody.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 1):
'Mersey Tunnels Closed"

What? The whole of Liverpool kept their mouth shut for the day?

My local Library was shut  Sad


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Their cause is fair enough - but I don't think they will earn public empathy by striking. Schools, libraries, parks, offices etc are all closed, causing great inconvenience. The Tyne and Wear Metro is shut, as are the Mersey Tunnels. Our bins weren't collected today, and won't be for a fortnight (But thats OK, because we can take it to the tip  Yeah sure ). Like rail strikes, and the fire strikes a few years ago, they do not give people a sense of empathy - just bitterness and annoyance!

What also annoyed me is the striking worker who was interviewed who said she was striking because she wanted to retire at 60. Is 65 not good enough for these people, like it is for the rest of the population?



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

Quoting Willo (Reply 2):
The whole of Liverpool kept their mouth shut for the day?

Care to stand up and say that, I'm half scouse!  Wink

Luckily, I don't have their accent!



One Life, Live it.
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 3):
they do not give people a sense of empathy

I disagree. They entered into a contract of employment with the government and now the government are trying to change it. It's not their fault.


User currently offlineGordonsmall From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2001, 2121 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 4):

Luckily, I don't have their accent!

Not to mention that he's a skinny 5ft runt of a scouser ....  Smile



Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 4):
Care to stand up and say that, I'm half scouse!

As a half scouse you were able to crane your neck. A true scouser wouldn't be able to because of the chip on his shoulder.

 duck 


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

Manchester had a few small picket lines outside the town hall. As with all strike days, it ended up raining. Me and my mate fabricated 'Honk if you think they should be fired!' signs and had fun for a few minutes in our lunch hour, until one of the union reps threatened to 'duff us up'.  Sad

User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 8):
Me and my mate fabricated 'Honk if you think they should be fired!' signs and had fun for a few minutes in our lunch hour, until one of the union reps threatened to 'duff us up'

 Wow!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 9):
Wow!

It was all done in the best possible taste. Strikes are a huge amount of fun.


User currently offlineTrident3 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 5):
I disagree. They entered into a contract of employment with the government and now the government are trying to change it. It's not their fault

But the government arbitarliy changed the terms of my company pension when they removed the tax relief on share dividends to pensions. We were not consulted, we had no say in the matter, they just took our money away. Local government pensions are paid out of our council tax, which means that I am having to pay out of my own reduced income ( I have had to increase my own pension contributions) and OAPs are having to pay more out of their limited pensions to subsidise early retirement for these workers. It is not as if they are working in stressful, difficult, low paid jobs, the average public sector worker earns 17% more than the private sector.
They should remember who actually pays their wages and pensions. It is not the government, it is us the tax payer!  Angry



"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1289 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
Strikes are a huge amount of fun

Unless you are the one's on strike!  Yeah sure


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1289 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 12):
Unless you are the one's on strike! Yeah sure

And it's raining.


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 5):
I disagree. They entered into a contract of employment with the government and now the government are trying to change it. It's not their fault.

I appreciate that - but I'd feel sorry for them without my life being disrupted! I'm just glad I'm not a parent whose children were off school today!



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

Quoting Trident3 (Reply 11):
They should remember who actually pays their wages and pensions. It is not the government, it is us the tax payer!

Bingo. They chose to work for the state. Hence, they know that their employer is funded by the tax payer, and so entirely at the whim of the politics of the land. There is no political whim for significant tax rises, nor a reduction on public spending. Hence, their pensions are toast. It's the risk they took working for the government.


User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1267 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 15):
Hence, their pensions are toast. It's the risk they took working for the government.

That's bullshit! How would you like to pay into a pension for 35 years to suddenly be told it's no good and you have to work for longer!!!!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 16):
That's bullshit! How would you like to pay into a pension for 35 years to suddenly be told it's no good and you have to work for longer!!!!

If I worked in the private sector (which I do), I'd be pissed off. If I worked for the public sector (which I don't, for a reason), I'm entirely at the whim of the democratically elected government.


User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1251 times:

As was pointed out above, striking can be counter productive and may not achieve a great deal in your dispute with your employer.

Certainly striking is a tool that may be used in a dispute with the employer and will show them that you are serious about the situation.

Today's strikers aren't asking for anything more than they already receive, just the retention of their existing pension conditions.

They're also asking the question why they are being discriminated against (other public sector workers are retaining their pension conditions) which means that people working together will being retiring at different ages

Of course we're all entitled to our own opinions about this strike, but some facts you should consider when making up your mind about this strike.

Many of the members of the pension scheme are women whose average pension is £31 per week

Pensions fall below the mean tested benefit levels

Retaining the existing pension conditions is less expensive than what has been proposed

Unlike Trident3's assertion, many of the workers striking today are in low paid, stressful jobs.


.



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Quoting Trident3 (Reply 11):
But the government arbitarliy changed the terms of my company pension when they removed the tax relief on share dividends to pensions. We were not consulted, we had no say in the matter, they just took our money away. Local government pensions are paid out of our council tax, which means that I am having to pay out of my own reduced income ( I have had to increase my own pension contributions) and OAPs are having to pay more out of their limited pensions to subsidise early retirement for these workers. It is not as if they are working in stressful, difficult, low paid jobs, the average public sector worker earns 17% more than the private sector.
They should remember who actually pays their wages and pensions. It is not the government, it is us the tax payer!

The same here. There is public services strike going on since several weeks over an average of 20 minute more work every day the government wants them to work extra due to financial shortages of the community, state and federal governments.
While most people realise that e.g. nurses, hospital doctors, police officers, fire fighters etc. at the frontline of public work are often grossly underpaid for what they are doing and very few people would mind an increase and improvements in working conditions for them, many people (me for instance) are fed up that the general contract demanded by the unions would again prefer the paper pushers in the administrations, who are considered to be quite lazy and already wellpaid, especially since most tax payers from the private sector are working under much harder working conditions at less pay than the average administrative employee ("government clerk" has long become a synonyme for laziness in Germany )
This strike, unpopular it is, is slowly petering out and might have become a serious defeat for the public services union VerDi. E.g. parents with children in public kindergartens have been improvising organising day care so that they could continue to go to work and e.g. in Hannover the rubbish disposal workers had to clean up the streets with their tails tucked in between their legs after 4 weeks of strike without effect, because nobody cared. The population accused them of laziness and didn't support them as expected.

Jan


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1232 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 8):
Manchester had a few small picket lines outside the town hall. As with all strike days, it ended up raining. Me and my mate fabricated 'Honk if you think they should be fired!' signs and had fun for a few minutes in our lunch hour

SCAB!

 Wink

Long live the dear leader.......
















QFF


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 16):
That's bullshit! How would you like to pay into a pension for 35 years to suddenly be told it's no good and you have to work for longer!!!!

And what do you think has happened in the private sector? The government allowed companies to underfund the pension provisions due to a scandalous change in the law meaning that some people are getting a fraction of what they were entitled to. Some pension funds have collapsed, and some people who have paid in for all those years are getting virtually nothing, and the government won't bail them out. Then Gordon Brown decided to raid private (but not state) pensions for billions of pounds by removing the tax rebates and knackering the pension funds. Company after company has closed its final salary scheme, first for new entrants, and now for existing workers. Everyone in the private sector has now been told they are going to have to work until they are 66, 67, 68, 69 or 70.

Some people in the private sector have not only paid in for 35 years and been told now they have to work longer, but that they have to work longer and STILL won't get what they thought they were going to receive.

The pension crisis in the private sector is entirely due to government interference and short-term thinking, which is why it is so risible when they lecture us on making plans for our retirement. We had done, but then they then decided to shaft us.

Now those in the public sector are going through the same thing and are demanding that the rest of us pay for it. About a quarter of my council tax goes towards paying for the pension provision of council workers, at the same time as we are all going through these pension problems. They are going to keep their wonderful final salary schemes as the rest of us cast around and wonder how the hell we are going to make our own provision for our retirement. It'd be lovely if someone was going to contribute 15% of salary to our pension funds, really it would.

Viewed in isolation, these workers have a point. But ultimately, they are demanding to be treated as a special case, at the expense of the rest of us.

All of which is why I'm not relying on a pension fund that won't cover my needs, so I own property and rent it out instead. But these council workers are really going to struggle to attract much sympathy from those of us outside the public sector. I don't remember seeing too many protests from them about our situation over the last few years, they were quite happy with their retire at 60, final salary scheme.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
Now those in the public sector are going through the same thing and are demanding that the rest of us pay for it. About a quarter of my council tax goes towards paying for the pension provision of council workers, at the same time as we are all going through these pension problems. They are going to keep their wonderful final salary schemes as the rest of us cast around and wonder how the hell we are going to make our own provision for our retirement. It'd be lovely if someone was going to contribute 15% of salary to our pension funds, really it would.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Couldn't agree more and couldn't put it any better Banco.

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
All of which is why I'm not relying on a pension fund that won't cover my needs, so I own property and rent it out instead.

The same conclusion I have come to.....



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
All of which is why I'm not relying on a pension fund that won't cover my needs, so I own property and rent it out instead.

Very prudent.

Or you can do what I do. I diversify my investments not only across property within my own country, but I invest my money in pension (superannuation) funds in 2 different countries.

There is no reason (I think, UK laws may differ from Australian) for you to not look into pension funds in Europe and the United States.......




............or the Cayman Islands, or Liechtenstein, or Monaco....  Wink

QFF


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1211 times:

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 23):
There is no reason (I think, UK laws may differ from Australian) for you to not look into pension funds in Europe and the United States.......

Yes and no. It depends on the country. But that money-grabbing tosser (you can tell he's systematically going though all my little tax-avoidance schemes  Wink ) Gordon Brown has removed a lot of the tax-exempt status from foreign investments. But it can still be worthwhile of course. A lot of Europeans invest in the UK markets because interest rates are higher than in the Eurozone, so from our perspective it makes finding a higher interest rate country a bit more difficult. Interestingly, and for the first time in decades, US interest rates are now higher than UK ones. As always (and as you say) it's about spreading the investment to manage the risk.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 23):
............or the Cayman Islands, or Liechtenstein, or Monaco....

I've been meaning to talk to you about that....  Wink



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
25 Diesel1 : Which is fine. Of course the average classroom assistant or dinner lady may not be able to do this.... What then?
26 Trident3 : Retire at 65! The way things are going that will still be 5 years or so before the rest of us will be allowed to.
27 Banco : And who is saying they shouldn't get a pension?
28 Post contains images Diesel1 : You misunderstand. The average dinner lady or classroom assistant may not be able to afford a property to rent out. What then?
29 Diesel1 : Unlikely. Though of course not impossible. The Pensions Commision has suggested a raising of state pension age to 68. This would be phased in, and de
30 Post contains images BMIFlyer : I have to wait another week for the trash to be collected now Lee
31 Post contains links and images BDKLEZ : In terms of public transport, be glad that a lot of you don't live in NI. The entire pulic transport system, both bus and rail, is run by a local yet
32 Banco : I think I see what you're getting at. You're saying that these people don't get the opportunity to plan for a comfortable retirement? Isn't that the
33 Diesel1 : You know what I'm getting at. But it's not that they don't get the opportunity to plan. Everyone has the opportunity to plan, its whether circumstanc
34 Banco : That's the same for everyone. But not everyone gets the kind of pension that a public sector worker has. Private sector workers often don't have anyo
35 Post contains images Raffik : I put my bin out the other night and the rubbish collectors never turned up! I don't want to get rats
36 Cornish : No workers should have their benefits eroded, but the fact is that it is happening big time in the private sector. But why should some people in the
37 Post contains images Diesel1 : I know, I know.... I thought afterwards that it was unlikely you'd miss that..... What you did do was introduce your own personal circumstances, some
38 Post contains images Banco : Rubbish. My own personal circumstances were mentioned as a separate paragraph tacked on to the end of the post. It's relevance to the discussion only
39 Diesel1 : You brought your circumstances into this discussion initially, but now appear a little touchy about them when discussed or used in comparisons - fair
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