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Is Teleportation Really Possible?  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

In the last few years, we've seen reports that scientific experiments have been conducted that have resulted in the successful teleportation of atomic particles through the use of quantum entanglement.

First, do you believe that these experiments have truly proved what is claimed?

Second, what do you think are the effects of these experiments? How will teleportation affect the lives of succeeding generations?

Thanks in advance.

[Edited 2006-03-29 20:57:48]

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

hey!!!
that's a very neat question you ask! actually, I am a grad student, doing my Ph. D. at the university of Virginia, the guys in the lab just below me, are doing experimental work in quantum teleportation using entangled photons,

http://www.phys.virginia.edu/People/personal.asp?UID=op6n

they have a web page, but it is not working right now, so I have given you a link to the professor's info at UVA. The stuff they do is pretty hot stuff in physics and it is very real..there is no new age thing going on...its all experimentally measurable..

by the way they entanglement experiments make use use of teleporting quantum states and thus transporting information...the actual matter is not teleported...
How ever in my lab we do quite a diff experiment where the actual atomic matter is actually being transferred in non classical ways..which are somewhat along the lines of matter teleportation...i.e using quantum interference.

I know that NIST is doing some stuff you might be interested too, I have been to this place too

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/teleportation.htm


In general quantum mechanics has allowed for some pretty fancy experiments out there that are VERY real and experimentaly repeatable
I could go on and on about this but lets start here....!!!



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

The ability to transfer key properties of one particle to another without using any physical link has until now only been achieved with laser light. It's a long way from the transporters used by Jean-Luc Picard and Captain Kirk in Star Trek. I can't see human teleportation happening anytime soon!

User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Teleportation? That's easy. Just freeze what you want teleported to 0 (zero) K, take a snapshot of everything and duplicate the stuff back on to the scene while keeping at 0K. Where can I apply for my Ph.D.?

User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 3):
Where can I apply for my Ph.D.?

Just make a cheque out for $2000 payable to me and mail it as soon as.


User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1657 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 3):
Just freeze what you want teleported to 0 (zero) K,

jejejeje very funny...  rotfl 

what is even more funny is that we actually do something similar to that in our experiment ..ie. we cool down samples of atoms to almost 0K i.e ~100 nK but it is kind of pointless to talk about temperature at that level... for dilute samples since temperature is an average macroscopic physical attribute ..not a microscopic one!



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 2):
The ability to transfer key properties of one particle to another without using any physical link has until now only been achieved with laser light

did you go to the link (for NIST) above ???

quite fancy actually, they do it with beryllium.....wich is NOT laser light only

 silly 



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 1):
the guys in the lab just below me, are doing experimental work in quantum teleportation using entangled photons,



Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 1):
they have a web page, but it is not working right now

Big version: Width: 104 Height: 147 File size: 5kb
makes me laugh


Sort of sums it up  Wink



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1626 times:

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 5):
what is even more funny is that we actually do something similar to that in our experiment ..ie. we cool down samples of atoms to almost 0K i.e ~100 nK but it is kind of pointless to talk about temperature at that level... for dilute samples since temperature is an average macroscopic physical attribute ..not a microscopic one!

Seems quite hot that 100nK. Some folks in Helsinki get down to 0.1 nK (100 pK). In fact, nothing gets cooler than that at the moment in the known universe. http://ltl.tkk.fi/index.php3
At such low temperatures physical thermometers are useless, you do delta(energy) divided by delta(entropy) and get T that way. The energy is pulsed electromagnetically into the object made of Rhodium and the manipulated change in entropy read back electromagnetically as well.


User currently offlineEWWForEver From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Does anyboy remember the old Fed Ex Zap Mail commercials. While they were trying to advertise their fax services (before fax machines were so common), if I remember they had some fun with the whole teleportation idea.


Hurry...Before the parade passes by !
User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 8):
Seems quite hot that 100nK. Some folks in Helsinki get down to 0.1 nK (100 pK). In fact, nothing gets cooler than that at the moment in the known universe. http://ltl.tkk.fi/index.php3
At such low temperatures physical thermometers are useless, you do delta(energy) divided by delta(entropy) and get T that way. The energy is pulsed electromagnetically into the object made of Rhodium and the manipulated change in entropy read back electromagnetically as well.

interesting, I did check out the site but my finish is not quite up to par...
however that does seem like a record low temperature in general physics terms. Our group has one of the lowest recorded temperatures for Bose Einstein condensates. I mentioned 100nk as typical operating temperature. However we can adiabatically expand our condesate into a weakly confining magnetic trap and achieve temperatures as low as 800pK

http://prola.aps.org/searchabstract/...id=cbfaad7c51a24138&qseq=1&show=10

the link above will point you to the Physical Review A articles on the APS. you will be able to read the abstract of the article but you may need a subscription to the APS (American Physical Society) to view the actual paper.

Any how 800pK is pretty darn cold on every day terms, even if it is not the absolute coldest temperature recorded and it is in the same order of magnitude as the temperature you are referring to in Finland.

I agree with you in the sense that conventional thermometers are useless, in our case, we clearly do not use thermometers either....we take absorption pictures of the atoms (Rubidium 87) and use ballistic expansion to calculate the K.E in the visible dimensions, giving us a solid measurement on the average energy of the atoms in our magnetic trap.
Which goes back to the issue that temperature makes no sense at this point, since temperature is a macroscopic statistical property of an ensemble. typical atom groups (we use) are of 10^5 which is a very low number thermodynamically speaking, so temperature does not really apply!

 Silly



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Just one thing....when entering a transporter device/room, make sure there are no flies in the device, or you will turn into the FLY!!


Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 11):
when entering a transporter device/room, make sure there are no flies in the device, or you will turn into the FLY!!

cool...that movie was pretty cool for it's time, pretty groce too!!!!  yuck 



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 10):
interesting, I did check out the site but my finish is not quite up to par...

(???) The finish there to me seems much like ordinary English. I counted two words on the title page that were in Finnish.

"Researchers of the YKI-group of the Low Temperature Laboratory have recently achieved the lowest temperature ever produced.

The record-low temperature was reached in a piece of rhodium metal, which was cooled to 100 pK, or 0.000 000 000 1 degrees above the absolute zero. The absolute zero is the limit of all temperatures, —273.15... C, a temperature one can never reach. However, at the Low Temperature Laboratory, the researchers have for more than 20 years been reaching closer and closer. The previous Low Temperature World Record of 280 pK was in fact set here in 1993.

The present results have been almost 9 years in preparation. Many scientists have contributed to the project, most recently the team was: T.A. Knuuttila, J.T. Tuoriniemi, K.I. Juntunen, and K.K. Nummila from the Low Temperature Laboratory, and two Danish researchers: K. Lefmann (Risø National Laboratory), and F.B. Rasmussen (University of Copenhagen). "

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 10):
Which goes back to the issue that temperature makes no sense at this point, since temperature is a macroscopic statistical property of an ensemble

Somehow the Helsinki guys had that one number figured out all the same by using the energy/entropy method. It has only some public relations value as such, however, the real aim is elsewhere. But the number is not "senseless".
The actual equiment can be seen here:
http://www.csc.fi/lehdet/tietoyhteys/TY4_2003.pdf (page 32, please)

The article is about "negative" temperatures, i.e. those that are colder than the absolute zero, approaching the 0 Kelvins from the "wrong" side.

 cold 


User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1478 times:

I do apologize, I quickly viewed the site and assumed it was in finish...but thanks for clarifying that, after properly reading it it, the work they are doing there seems very interesting

I do want to clarify my point about senlsess temperatures:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 13):
But the number is not "senseless".
The actual equiment can be seen here:
http://www.csc.fi/lehdet/tietoyhteys/TY4_2003.pdf (page 32, please)

notice how I said that it is senseless for a dilute sample....

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 5):
for dilute samples since temperature is an average macroscopic physical attribute ..not a microscopic one!



Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 10):
typical atom groups (we use) are of 10^5 which is a very low number thermodynamically speaking, so temperature does not really apply!

clearly in the example/ case you are talking about it DOES apply to talk about temperature because it is a METAL:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 13):
The record-low temperature was reached in a piece of rhodium metal, which was cooled to 100 pK,

metals are as oppposite to a dilute sample (like the condensate we use) as it gets... again coming back to my original statement...for dilute samples .. temperatures are not accurate physical attributes...

I mean...statistical mechanics will tell you that thermodynamic properties require sample sizes in the order of Avogadro's number to be valid...that IS how thermodyamics works...you need large numbers for average properties like temperature to make sense!
T ~ < K.E > i.e tempearture is the AVERAGE kinetic energy of the ensemble or if you want to get more specific T~< K.E > ~ 1/2m < V^2 > i.e temperature is nothing more than the average velocity squared of your ensemble of atoms. and you need many atoms for an average property to mean anything statistically.

now with regards to negative temperatures...I remeber that there are situations where you can attribute negative temperatures, specialy if (I remember correctly) when dealing with spin systems in a magnetic fields. some how by anti aligning spins you can get the average energy < E > to be below zero...

Any how, the work they are doing at finland seems pretty neat.

its all physics in the end!!!!



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

have they actually been able to transport multiple particles/atoms and have them arrive at their destination in the same arrangement as they left? Isnt' that the "impossible" aspect of teleportation?


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1445 times:

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 15):
have they actually been able to transport multiple particles/atoms and have them arrive at their destination in the same arrangement as they left? Isnt' that the "impossible" aspect of teleportation?

good point, but now it comes to what do we mean by teleportation. Indeed i do not think (as far as I know...) they have teleported matter.....however they can teleport various physical attributes (other than matter) that can convey information e.g spin polarization.
so if you can relay information WITHOUT the usage of any physical connection....(and no, its not Electromagnetic waves,which is the ordinary wireless stuff we have now) then that is quite an achievement.
If you could relay info from one side of the world to the other without the usage of wires or radio transmission or anything... that will greatly change the way we will communicate in the future.

AND, if we can further understand how to transfer quantum information that could potentially open doors for transporting matter. since matter is just another physical attribute of atoms...but we are quite ways away from teleporting humans.....

quantum mechanics is just weird......  spin 



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

Can someone explain this in simple terms?

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12630 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1418 times:
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Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 8):
At such low temperatures physical thermometers are useless, you do delta(energy) divided by delta(entropy) and get T that way. The energy is pulsed electromagnetically into the object made of Rhodium and the manipulated change in entropy read back electromagnetically as well.

That's what I thought! crazy 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

Well I'll try. People are fascinated with teleportation, because it's one of those big sci-fi icons of all time. The problem is really: "describe matter as fully as possible". On the other hand, we know that even with a single atom a full description will be impossible because an act of measuring will destroy the very information needed. This is one quantum effect. By setting particles in the same quantum state, such as happens in very low temperatures, people are hoping to be able to copy q. states by the virtue of the particles sharing the same intrinsic quantum state (an entanglement), from which it follows that any particle in such an union can be virtually swapped for any other particle and nobody will notice nothing no-how. Also the union will absolutely break if someone intrudes, which is extremely useful for applications in secure communications.

User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 19):
On the other hand, we know that even with a single atom a full description will be impossible because an act of measuring will destroy the very information needed. This is one quantum effect

yes that is "collapsing the wave function", that is one of the basic principles of quantum mechanics, as well as the uncertainty principle, if you measure position very every very accurately (with minimal error)you compromise your momentum measurement and vice versa.

Quoting Pope (Reply 17):
Can someone explain this in simple terms?

another way to look at the entanglement Eilennaei mentions, is as follows..(I will try my best):

imagine flipping a coin, before you disclose the outcome on your hand, we all know there is a 50 - 50 chance to get heads or tails. this is because we assume the coin is "COMPLETELY RANDOM".
However what If I tell you that before you lift your hand, the coin is actually in a superposition of heads and tails??? that sounds weird...i mean how can it be heads or tails at the same time....
but it turns out that at the atomic level this actually happens....you get these "weird states" where physical properties CAN be in a SUPERPOSITION i.e both at the same time...or even weirder...things can be in many places at the same time...

so it turns out that you can manipulate these superpositions, and take advantage of the fact that things are delocalized and (in our example delocalized is the coin being head and tails at the same time) to get usefull outcomes.

In communication, you can think of having two coins....you flip them and before you disclose the answer...you could say they are in a weird superposition...they are "entangled"
So metaphorically, what scientist are doing is, manipulating these superposition of two coins and get them both to ALWAYS land heads or ALWAYS land tails....not random any more!!
so you ask how do you do that....thats because the two coins were not REALLY random, they were in a superposition that we understand and can manipulate.
Now if the two coins were miles apart but "entangled", then to continue our analogy, if one can affect the outcome of the other and do so in a predictable way then one can convey information from one point to another miles away!


I don't claim to have the best explanation, but I gave it a shot...



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1354 times:

This is one of my favorite recent topics, but (   ) I don't have much time to either follow it or respond to it right now. I plan to in the future!

However, here is my question: If, in order to avoid duplication, you destroy the original of a human being who is (theoretically) teleported by the means set forth in the above messages, wouldn't you essentially be killing him and leaving his identical "clone" alive?

   

[Edited 2006-03-31 19:11:01]

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