Jsf119 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 196 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1026 times:
I would like to start off by saying I am blessed to be a citizen of the greatest country and never before have I been more proud to be an American. I dare say the events of September 11th is the third most important date in our history along with winning our independence and the end of the Civil War. For the most part we have rallied and supported one another in a way I have never witnessed. However, being 22 I must say I am very sad and extremely ashamed at some of my countrymen and especially some in my generation. I am talking of these "Americans" protesting at rallies or those writing editorials calling our country a "bully" or saying other bad things about our country. They protest against our country and say to talk things out instead of war. Well, these animals that committed the acts on September 11th are not interested in peace even if we offered it on a silver platter. They took two widebody aircraft along with two large airplanes one of which hit the Pentagon at 90% the speed of sound with our American brothers and sisters on board and used them as guided missiles to kill our other American brothers and sisters at the Pentagon, WTC and in a field in Pa. Now are these actions by a group seeking peace? So these "Americans" protest and say we are wrong by bombing the barbarians that started it all. But it is a step our country had to take. It’s like a school bully beating you up are you going to sit down and reason with him? Or are you going to fight in your defense, future freedom and teach him a lesson? Our negligent days of Bill Clinton and Al Gore are over and we won't let things like this happen going unpunished. Others are worried about civilian casualties abroad but that is a part of war. It's amazing to think that 60 years ago a generation coming out of the great depression was thrust into war at 18 years old stepped up to the plate and got the job done. Some made the ultimate sacrifice for you and I today. Now, fast-forward 60 years to 2001, America is attacked at her heart by terrible animals but unlike Pearl Harbor where a military base was attacked by a known enemy with war birds our civilians were attacked at their workplace by a faceless coward and with our airliners and now some of you think that we should just forget about it or talk it through? What would our heroes of WW2 and other past wars say about our generation? No one likes war but no one likes to hear whining about it either especially when our brave service men are fighting for a noble and just cause, which is our freedom. I respect all of your opinions because I must being a member of a free country and recognize freedom of speech but you must excuse me when I have a hard time calling all of you protesters Americans.
JetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 958 times:
I'm not 'ashamed' of the protesters per se, because I do not feel any connection with them whatsoever. They are in such a minority that I do not feel they represent the United States. Anyway, my biggest problem with them is that they do not seem to have a solution to the problem we are facing. This notion that we are giving them a reason to retaliate is absurd. HELLO!!!! They didn't need a reason Sept. 11!!!!!! Also, the argument that more killing does not bring back those already killed is so absurd. With that logic, we shouldn't punish any murder at all. The 'more killing', if performed as planned, will save thousands of lives. It may even save one of you and you wouldn't even know it. Then of course, my personal favorite...appeasement. 'Get out of the Middle-East'. There's one good way to assure future terrorism and that is to cave in to terrorists demands. What will they demand next? Remember, their goal is to destroy the West.
The American protesters seem to have two flavors; pure 'head-in-the-sand' pacifists, and a bunch of bush-league wannabe hippies (usually younger students trying to gain some morale ego-trip). But I do not want to compromise their right to protest, because we all need a good laugh now and then. I wonder if these folks would have better luck protesting next to the Anti-American protesters in Pakistan. I'm sure they are all naïve enough to think they would be welcomed.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9 Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 954 times:
It's their right to protest, don't forget that. I just hope they help the country in these times even though they might disagree with the leadership in some areas.
I can't believe the USA is called a "bully".
1. Who is paying for and dropping relief kits for refugees?
2. President George W. Bush has asked every American child to donate $1 for the Afghani children.
3. What nation's military researched and developed weapons (that cost billions of dollars) in order to minimize civilian casaulties?
4. What nation begged for and pleaded for the Taliban to hand over bin Laden so we wouldn't have to use force?
I could go on and on, but it is rediculous to say that the USA is a "global bully", when we are the nation that has been footing the bill for years in an effort to help the less fortunate in this world.
In all of these years, we could have just said "tough luck" to the kids in Somalia, etc. and left them the way they were, but instead we helped them out.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Lehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 22 Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 942 times:
Do I hear mindless loyalty?
Jsf119, The sentiment I'm getting from your post is that all "protesters" should basically wake up and smell the coffee, why not see things for what they are for a change, like on your own? I understand that you're still in emotion, but that's no excuse. The US response is not what bothers me, nor is it the way they do it or how; it's their intentions during and after the "war", if it ever ends...
Terrorism has been going on in other countries for decades, and the US is acting like this is the first time this has ever happened, and since it happened to us, be better do something about it. My question is, why now? Why not before when it was in it's infancy? The idea that they attacked our freedom or democracy is bull, they attacked the USA, this whole operation is an excuse to go to war.
Let me make this quite clear - I'm for responding to the attacks, I just think it wont end and there is no intent on eradicating the evil.
JetService this is for you:
We need to go after the source of the problem to come up with some solutions, but this would cost too much; and in a society of capitalists, well nuff said. Why else? I mean, the death penalty costs less than rehabilitation. This is an example of the easy way out which is what our current "war" is.
We have to think of this psychologically, not with Mk-82's and GBU-27's just yet. What causes terrorism, have any of you guys ever thought of that? They have somehow equated America with their pain, what's their pain? Most people experience things that cause them to keep it in until they lash out at someone, in this case, 6000 other people. An analog would be an abusive parent, more than likely they were abused as a child; similarly these terrorists had experienced some sort of terror in their lifes that justifies their actions. Just in case they have a concious(sp?), they scapegoat their religion as justification -- a sign of stupidity -- so we must educate them.
Since bin Laden is brainwashing everyone we need to take him out of the equation then deal with everyone else. I imagine it will cost much more than this "war", but the peace will last much longer. Fighting terrorism the way Bush wants to do it is like mowing the lawn to get rid of grass. In the short term, yes, there is less grass, but soon it'll all grow back; we have to dig out the roots! They attempted to mow us down, but we grew back, let's uproot them, okay?
Well...I have provided my attempt at one solution which can work if someone considered all the potentials, but if you still want to nuke them, you're a lost cause and I bid you farewell.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
KROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 917 times:
Here in Rochester, I was reading in the paper how there were a couple of Anti-War protests in the coty, and I was furious, appauled, hurt. The acompanying picture showed alot of students (college), a fair amount of women, and some elderly people. Not for nothing, but I served my country for 5 1/2 years with pride. I did a tour in Korea (1998-1999, not the actual war), and to see these punk students protesting set me off. They don't know or appreciate how good they have it. They will never serve there country, because they are too worried bout becoming the next corporate jockey. War is bad for business, and we should stop it now. What a joke. Let them go live in Afganistan, and see if they don't want to retaliate as well. As for the women....You want to protest, pack your shit, you're going to Afganistan as well. See how you like living over there. See if you all of a sudden don't understand that the attack on the WTC was an attack on all Americans, and all our freedoms. To the elderly, this isn't Vietnam. This is a situation like WWII. We were attacked. If we let the attack go unpunished, then it will be seen that terrorist attacks in America can go on, and be gotten away with.
To all the protesters.....This isn't a matter of pure politics. Its a matter of crazed men using the guise of religion, to spread reigns of terror on countries that are proserous. They are trying to take my rights away, as well as your rights away. Pay attention to whats really going on, or pack your shit, and get the hell out.
Staffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 910 times:
I'm just writing to ask what some of you people would think if Afghanistan was bombing America, because they don't like Bush, and at the same time airdropping supplies to you?? What would you feel after Bush had been bombed away? Would you like Afghanistan, I think not. Take a minute and think about what the people in Afghanistan will think of America and Americans when this "war" ends?
There are allready many people suffering in Afghanistan, and their situation isn't getting any better, nor is their thoughts of America.
Where do you get your information about this war, through news on the television and the internet? Where do the people in afghanistan get their news from? If they had the same knowledge about this conflict as the rest of the world the situation would be totally different. They see America as terrorists who come and bombes them without any reason, why? Because that's what their rulers tell them. In fact, many of the people in Afghanistan don't even know what happened on sept 11th.
I'm not in anyway defending the acts of sept 11th, but I think the efforts should be used to help the the people of Afghanistan make their country free and future attacks on the US will be avoided, or don't you care about them??
KROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 898 times:
Staffan, America is bombing Afghanistan because they are harboring a known terrorist who has been proven to be behind the Sept. 11th terrorist attackts. The Taliban refuse to give him up, so that is why we are bombing. We have nothing against the innocent civilians, therefore we are helping to feed them. Remember, they were starving long before we started bombing. Also, we are not bombing because se simply "don't like" bin Laden. We are bombing because of hte horrible attack perparated by this criminal against the United States and 5,000 plus innocent civilians.....
Sebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3672 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 885 times:
Let's say it's better than nothing, but this action of sending food by planes is a joke. And don't think the people in Afghanistan are safe because they "receive" that food. They would need hundreds of tons of cereal every day, and not a few boxes of Western food, and that's a job that was done by some associations.
That's incredible how this propaganda worked in the US.
KROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 878 times:
Sebolino. The U.S. has been tasked as a major provider of food relief to starving nations all over the world. Alas we can only do so much. Also, the food that is being dropped in one packaged meal, a days worth of vitamins and calories are packed into the meal. Also, the same plans that are dropping this food, and being shot at by Taliban forces. That is why more Aide cannot be dropped, and thats because the C-17s have to fly to high to avoid anit-aircraft fire to drop anything else. Also, the meals are far from "Western Food". They are prepared to the diets of Middle Eastern people. Its not propaganda for us, but its funny how someone with Anti-American sentiments looks through something. Unlike Bin Laden, the US recognizes that are problem are not with the Afghan civilians, but with Bin laden and the Taliban regime. That is why we are attacking the Taliban, and trying to provide relief to the civilians...the same ones the Talibans, there own people, let starve. NEXT.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 876 times:
Lephron, why is it that people like you on here always think that the media or the government is doing the thinking for the rest of us, but that you, in your infinate wisdom, totally thinks on your own. That's bull, and we all know it. I make my own opinions, as do most everyone on here. Stop thinking your so much better than the rest of us.
Yes, terrorism has been going on for years, but how many countries have had 6000 killed AT ONE TIME, IN A SINGLE ATTACK? Don't equate this with a car bomb on a street in Tel Aviv or London or Paris, or wherever. This redefined what terrorism-it went beyond simple terrorism to declaring a state of war against the government and the peoples of the United States. If you're as naive as to ask "why now?", you're beyond reasoning with. They destroyed a huge symbol of America, damaged another, hijacked 4 planes, and killed 6000 people-what more do you want to fight back against these people? What is your litmus test? A hundred thousand dead? I mean, come on, the challenge they gave to us-openly now, wasn't just a slap on the wrist-it was the equivalent of running the country over with an 18=wheeler!! It isn't an "excuse" to go to war-it's imperative to do so.
Let me make this clear: you may be for responding to these attacks, but you don't have the courage to stand up and try to do anything that is necessary to eradicate this evil. You'd rather bitch.
And what do you think is the source of this evil? The US, for supporting Israel, or is it the Arab/Muslim world for stepping all over their own people, and letting many of them live in abject poverty, then blame the US and Israel for their lot in life? It will cost a lot to try to snuff this out-but most Americans now believe it will be well worth the cost to do so, else we'll see another World Trade Center crashing down some day.
And we don't have to think of this psychologically-not to the extent you want us to. You can't reason with people who are bent on killing Americans anywhere, and everywhere-a goal Bin Laden has proclaimed out loud. As for "their pain", most of it is caused by their own governments, not the US, despite you wish that it be so to justify your cowardice. They didn't "lash out" at 6000 people-they lashed out at civilization itself-these monsters have removed himself from the ranks of men, and have returned themselves to barbarism. You cannot reason with someone like that.
Your analogy about an abused child is an interesting one, and a correct one, I think. But who has done the abusing? The US, or their own government? How can so many of the people running these governments be so filthy rich, yet there people be so dirt poor? Who's fault is that-their parents-being their government, or someone who lives blocks away-the US?
What we CAN do is to HELP raise the standard of living for these people in places like Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq-but they'll first need the help of their OWN GOVERNMENTS to make a committment to their people first. If you have this continued "blame the US for everything policy" that pervades in the Middle East, then you'll get nowhere, and all the psycho-analysis won't change that fact.
There comes a time when you can't rationalize something like this away. There comes a time when a country must fight to defend it's way of life. This is such a time. The President has made it clear that the US is committed to undertaking this conflict for years if needs be, and it takes courage, not cowardice, to stand up to this menace. Most people, scared as they might be, have that courage in them. A few of them, however, do not.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 872 times:
Sebolino, what about the propoganda coming from Bin Laden and the Taliban? What about their attack killing 6000 people in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania? What about that?
And I think you know that there's more than a few boxes of western food being dropped there-that statement was made out of contempt and nothing else. In fact, the US is sending hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, in food to Afghanistan.
You sound like another free European who somehow delights in this attack on the US. Amazing coming from someone who's coutry was bailed out by the US and Britian not once, but twice, in the last century. There's nothing worse than the ingratitude of those who have been rescued over the years.
Sebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3672 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 869 times:
You guys sounds very irritated by any word which is not in the direction of your leaders, that's your right.
1) KROC, you're wrong about the diet. Get infos in non-govt association like "Medecins sans frontieres" or the equivalent in the US. They claim that the food is too rich for starving people, and I believe they know what they say.
2) Where did you see that I was anti-American ? You should accept people to express their opinion without telling such things.
3) US sent 280000 "units" of food. I repeat: THAT's A JOKE.
Non-govt association take care how they can of starving people without tons and tons of cereal. But now they are blocked on the border.
4) Alpha1 , there's not much to say to you. Anyway, you'll always reject any other opinion than yours by talking about ingratitude or such bullshits. The action of the US during the WW2 shouldn't be a shield against common sense.
Once again, you show how narrow minded some people can be.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 863 times:
Sobolino, I'm not saying what I said because it's in the direction of my leaders. I'm saying it because it's what I believe. Unfortunately, many like yourself try to justify your position by saying that our position isn't our own, but that of our government. Well, sometimes, they are one in the same, and sometimes, I differ with my government. This time I don't.
And you can call what I said about France the two World War's "bulls**t". That's your right. It doesn't change the fact that it's true.
KROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 864 times:
Sebolino. The U.S. Air Force is air dropping 35 million tons of food...TO START! I also noticed you didn't address the fact that they can only drop limited supplies, because the Taliban forces are firing at the airplanes dropping the relief supplies.
As for what the meals are made up of, sorry, but there are MRE's (Meals Ready To Eat), and they are created based on a Middle Eastern Diet. There "too rich" as you say only because of hte waythey have to be preserved, stored, and delivered. I don't know about you, but If I'm starving, I'll eat something too rich. As for your 280,000 units of food. Where are you getting that? And what is your contry doing to help these starving people? Nothing, probably. Also, I never said you were Anti-American, I only said you have Anti-American sentiments. Meaning you make comments negativly against the US, and you make light of the good that the US is trying to do as well. I respect your opinion, and you are more than entitled to it, but I get mad, only when you tell me, that my government is feeding me stuff, and I am blindly following it, like you implied. Sorry, but I think for myself.
As for the World War II thing...Does the truth hurt?
Malina From Germany, joined Jul 2000, 146 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 859 times:
Leftseat, I was just going to say the same thing.
There are protests? So what, it's a free country. People have different opinions about this massive mess we're currently in.
Oh well, yet another pick-on-each-other thread in this forum.
Staffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 850 times:
KROC, Yes I know that the US are bombing the Talibans for not handing over Bin Laden. BUT, the talibans aren't the whole of afghanistan, many of the people in Afghanistan don't support the talibans, but they soon will when they continue to get bombed by their "friends", as they like to call themselves.
Can you please tell me how this war will end?? Because the way it is going now I'm having real hard times seeing a good long-term resoulution to the problems.
Are you going to kill all the talibans?? If you don't what do you think the remaining ones will do to the US?? They aren't going to be happy, that I can tell you.
Jsf119 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 843 times:
Staffan this is a war an in wars innocent people are harmed all the time. Please remember America isnt only fighting for our freedom and safety but yours in France also. When we are done I am sure well take care of all the poor people like we always do across the world. No, terrorism will never go away but we need to send a strong message that these acts are unaaceptable. You have to remember these people HATE Americans and want to see us dead and extinguished. Right now living in America I am scared for my own safety especially living so close to NYC. So I want to find and bomb these terrorists and I can assure the poor people an Afghanistan not a top concern right now. As for Lehpron I am not acting on emotions but common sense.
Our intention is to rid terrorism and dont worry to you people who are worried about the Afghans who I am almost positive that 90% of you couldnt care a less about before we started there on the 7th we will take care of them after. It's funny how when we are brutually attacked the are Americans who run and hide and support the people who attacked us instead of supporting your own country. Who cares what the Afghans think of us right now this is a war and people need to start realizing this.
KROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 830 times:
Staffan: The US has to start somewhere. I as well as America understand that the Taliban is the enemy. But with the Taliban in control of the governent, we have to start with them. In a war, innocent people always die. Just like all the innocent people who boarded one of 4 flights Sep. 11th, or those who went to work to earn a living in the WTC that same day. You seem to forget there plight, and only worry about the Afghans. This war will end when world terrorism has been queled. It will never go away, but we cannot live in fear, because a percentage of radical islamists want to wage war against us under the name of "Allah", because they want to blame all the US for all there problems. Never mind the fact that the Middle East has been at war since the begining of time, long before the U.S. was ever around.
Cliffie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 821 times:
This war will end when world terrorism has been queled. It will never go away, but we cannot live in fear, because a percentage of radical islamists want to wage war against us under the name of "Allah", because they want to blame all the US for all there problems.
You explained it perfectly, KROC. It's a great pity that only a percentage will get the meaning of your well chosen words.
25 Staffan: I understand that the US have to start somewhere, and I agree that actions should be taken. "You have to remember these people HATE Americans and want
26 JetService: Have you ever asked yourself why? Steffan, what the hell's that supposed to mean? Don't tell me you see some logic or rationale in this lust for murde