Wardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1178 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1325 times:
I would like to take everyones opinion here.
The economy seems to be perfect and crime is down to its lowest we ever seen in years, including unemployment. The Nation and the world seems "nice and rosey"
Heres my take. I didnt really approved of his tactic against Iraq, but hes doing a great job in speaking of domestic terms. The economy is improving and his doing great..and more so than when Clinton was during his term. I have no sources of this, but from watching the news, the world is in great shape and everything seems nice and rosey.
So please, like to take a mini poll here on what approval you have on Bush at the moment?
Honestly, he learned a bit during the last years, but what "he" has done is far away from "great". "He" because he's mostly a puppet of "chaney and the gang".
When the situation requires him to act without any weakness he is (or at least seems to be, what's even worse) totally lost (New orleans...).
Hm. The budget deficit should have something to do with it. If you inject hundreds of billions into an economy, you can expect it to improve. Why bother doing that without indebting your country if you personally will never have anything to do with paying it off?
That depends, mostly, on local factors such as the police. National governments usually don't deserve the major part of the credit for it, same goes for criticism. It's the NYPD that made the city safer, not e.g. Clinton.
Not at all. Sure, the war in Iraq has been declared won a long time ago, but the little we still hear from the place sounds mostly like civil war.
Then, we have Iran, working on its nuclear projects that are purely civilian today, able to "destroy the infidels" tomorrow and back to civilian the day after. Needless to say stability isn't at its highest in the Middle East.
Then we have high oil prices. They've crippled economies before, they can do it again if we don't take care. And they're not going to fall anytime soon; not with India and China demanding more and more oil.
Sooo... North Korea. Nuclear weapons - check, crazy dictator -check, desperate indoctrinated population - check. We haven't heard much from them, and I really don't want to know if that's a good thing or not.
Then Europe: The Clash of Cultures is here, but people(s) are mostly controlling themselves. We can only hope they'll continue to do so.
Africa: millions starving, brutal dictators rule most of the continent, raging AIDS pandemic, desertification... what a shame none of that's telegenic anymore, isn't it? Better focus on yet-again-record-setting profits from the banks.
I could go on and on, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Yeah nothing like rampant illegal immigration, huge huge huge deficits, millions of people without medical insurance, piss poor civil rights policy, privitization of social security, a major american city needing to be rebuilt(NOLA) wire tapping, a mostly inept cabinet, failure to recognize global warming. You want to talk about how the economy is better now? GM is bankrupt, plenty of major airlines are in similar shape, jobs being outsourced.
This is all his domestic policy doings. Nothing to be said about his foreign policy which I could write pages on how piss poor it is.
Is Bush doing a great job? Not just no, Hell No!!
Maybe he should visit his Dad's place and dummy up!
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8523 posts, RR: 46 Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1206 times:
Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9): GM is bankrupt, plenty of major airlines are in similar shape, jobs being outsourced.
This is all his domestic policy doings.
No. GWB is not responsible for GM's, NW's or anyone else's management mistakes. 9/11 crippled the airline industry, poor market strategies crippled the US car industry. He may not have done the best to improve the situation but it certainly isn't due to any of his mistakes.
Those are plentiful anyway, no need to invent them.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Bushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1203 times:
Quoting Aloges (Reply 10): No. GWB is not responsible for GM's, NW's or anyone else's management mistakes.
The original poster said the economy was in great shape, I was pointing out a few facts that didnt support that claim. I wasnt blaming Bush for the economy as policy has minimal to do with its success. When I said this was all his policy, I was referring more to medicare, SS, wiretapping, the list I originally posted above.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1150 times:
Bush is a mess and his presidency will forever be mired in the Iraq quagmire and the deceit around it.
However, his administration does have a few feathers in its cap, namely:
i. keeping the economy on track (it could have been a lot worse, folks, so give the administration and Greenspan some credit);
ii. creating a new international order in foreign affairs by the new Indo-US relationship;
However, there is that gigantic deficit that nearly doubled between 2000 and 2006, and the Indo-US deal will be a hard sell to Congress. Other than the above, the Bush years have been a disaster. A lot of us hoped that given his narrow victory in 2000, he would rule from the center and bring together opposing groups of Americans. He didn't and in fact cemented the divide. What a lost opportunity, especially for someone who was given all that goodwill post 9-11. He squandered it all.
Texan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4242 posts, RR: 53 Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1141 times:
Quoting S12PPL (Reply 13): Yeah...The economy is in just dandy shape, isn't it?
Well, it does depend on what you are looking at. The wealth of America is increasing, but it is only increasing in the people who are already rich. The middle class and below are seeing their wealth decreased even though more money is coming into the system. In fact, there are more millionaires in the US now than at any time in our history. The wealth continues to accumulate at the top.
Theoretically this should create a booming economy for everybody as these people spend their excess wealth. What has been ocurring, though, is more saving than spending, with the majority of expenditures on products coming from the middle and lower classes, who pay for the products with debt. The money is not trickling down as was theorized under Reaganomics. Bush has not done anything to ease the plight of those affected, either, while enacting massive spending legislation. Had the legislation been targeted toward job growth and job training for the not so wealthy majority, the economy could have a fuller recovery, increasing the overall wealth of everyone (and I stress could, as very little in economics is a certainty; the reason economics is called a science is to make meteorology look exact). But that is not the way that Bush nor Congress wants to see the country. Which makes it even more imperative to vote in the November elections and put new blood in D.C.
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1124 times:
Is he doing a great job? Hell no.
Starting with domestic policy, I grant that he has done an excellent job with the economy between 2001 and 2004. His administration provided the fiscal stimulous when and where it was required in the right doses. Greenspan and the Fed handled monetary stimulous with his typical aplomb.
But now he's gone too far. Deficit spending is fine when the economy is struggling, but it's gone way beyond that. Taxation is at about the right level, but spending is far too much. Some of that is explainable by the Iraq conflict, so I can excuse that much because you can say that it is temporary. But that still leaves several hundred billion dollars of excess spending.
To be fair, it is Congress that sets the budget, not the President. But he should have provided better leadership in the field of reducing funding wherever he could, and he should have made it a central issue to his presidency to push for the line-item veto.
If I were him, I would announce a "wall of shame" website, where he would list all the pork barrel projects in each spending bill, and list them ordered by the congressman who pushed it through, and hammer them hard until shame slows them down or they are forced to grant him a line-item veto.
Internationally, I think he has gotten a bum rap. His treatment of Al Qaeda, Taliban, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria and other rogue states and organizations has been excellent, and if it weren't for the Iraq WMD no-shows, GWB would have gone down as a president that made the US respected again. Unfortunately, Iraq has turned into a an albatross around his neck. Hindsight is always 20/20, and now we know that the US should not have gone into Iraq. But I maintain that with what we knew back then, it was in fact the right decision. However most people judge with hindsight, and do not take into account what was known/unknown way back when.
Iraq was a bit like the stories we hear of a cop shooting a kid by accident. A cop is pursuing some criminals at night, and he sees someone pointing a gun at him in the dark. He does not realize that the gun is a toy, and he fires. The kid was damned stupid for waving a real-looking gun in front of a cop, but the cop will have to live with the mistake the rest of his life. I think GWB will be haunted by Iraq the rest of his life, and is now simply trying desperately to make sure that something good comes out of the tragedy.
Quoting Aloges (Reply 5): Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
Does outsourcing ring a bell?
Check the BLS website. You look at the data, and you will see that foreign companies employ more Americans in the US than US companies emply foreigners oversees. I.e. There has been more outsourcing TO America than FROM it.
It's all a matter of spin. You hear about it when Chrysler lays off 25,000 people, but nobody says anything when they hire them all back a few years later. Bad news sells.
Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9): Yeah nothing like rampant illegal immigration, huge huge huge deficits, millions of people without medical insurance, piss poor civil rights policy, privitization of social security, a major american city needing to be rebuilt(NOLA) wire tapping, a mostly inept cabinet, failure to recognize global warming. You want to talk about how the economy is better now? GM is bankrupt, plenty of major airlines are in similar shape, jobs being outsourced.
You forgot to blame the Tsunami on GWB, while you were at it. Most of what you listed were just as bad well before GWB came to office, like immigration, medical insurance and deficits, among others. Other items are just plain stupid, like GM or NOLA. Wire tapping is not a problem, as it is vastly supported in Congress and in public opinion polls.
I will grant you his reluctance on meaningful energy policy.
And as far as privatization of social security, you had better hope and pray that it happens, and soon. Otherwise the US is headed for a major disaster with old people forced to live out on the streets or with their kids.
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15): However, his administration does have a few feathers in its cap
I'm stunned - you actually said something nice about GWB .
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1120 times:
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17): Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15):
However, his administration does have a few feathers in its cap
I'm stunned - you actually said something nice about GWB
Where credit is due, credit is given.
Actually back in 2000, I had hopes for this administration having heard of GWB's style of governance back in Texas. I may not have voted for him, but I decided to give him a chance given that his father by and large was a decent fellow who got screwed by a floundering economy in the trough of an expected economic cycle. Alas. I also supported his views on the Dubai port deal (I guess James Baker's internationalist views may have seeped into the Bush White House somehow).
PERFECT? Far from it, in many areas, and the area I live in is one of them. Jobs have left here in droves in the last year. The economy is far from perfect. The auto industry is hurting; the airline industry is hurting; the housing market might collapse.
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1090 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19): PERFECT? Far from it, in many areas, and the area I live in is one of them. Jobs have left here in droves in the last year. The economy is far from perfect. The auto industry is hurting; the airline industry is hurting; the housing market might collapse.
*The airline has always been hurting & the Federal Government has nothing to do with.
* The US Auto industry is having their own trouble with the Unions and are having trouble competing against foreign imports.
* Housing market, interest rates are low, 1st time home ownership is the highest that it has ever been. There are warning signs that the housing market may collapse, yet nothing has happened yet.
* Unemployment has been at an all time low.
* Both the Dow & the Nasdaq have been gaining strength.
You can not use your area as a litmus that the economy is doing bad or good... Usually, the employment rate is a good indication of what the economy as a whole is doing....
Bushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1051 times:
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15): What a lost opportunity, especially for someone who was given all that goodwill post 9-11. He squandered it all.
This was done on a domestic and foreign level, with the average citizens as well as elected officials. He had a golden opportunity to be a good president, Im not sure what went wrong, did he not realise it? Did he not care? Did he think it would be there indefinatly? Im not sure, but I dont think any President has gone from his high poll rating to his lowest. He is looking at like a 30% drop in the polls. Ahhh, but I know he doesnt read them so it doesnt matter.
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17): If I were him, I would announce a "wall of shame" website, where he would list all the pork barrel projects in each spending bill, and list them ordered by the congressman who pushed it through, and hammer them hard until shame slows them down or they are forced to grant him a line-item veto.
Just to further some debate, how are those in Congress supposed to get re-elected? I see some benefit in the earmark system. Especially to my home state that with only 3 officials in DC wouldnt get shit out of it. Alaska has used its elected senority to bring home much needed funds to help the state with such a wide variety of projects that it baffles the mind. Has some been wasted? Sure but that is the system in place. If one wants to change the rules they have to play the game first.
I am not a fan of the line item veto for just one main reason. It will allow for increased partisan politics in its worst form. A bill passes through the proper channels and the President whoever it may be, has the ability to pick out projects who they know is put on thier by an enemy from the opposite party and strike it out.
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17): I think GWB will be haunted by Iraq the rest of his life, and is now simply trying desperately to make sure that something good comes out of the tragedy.
See im not sure he cares, nor do I think he grasps the monumental fuckup this entire thing was. Sure hindsight is 20/20, I believed the lies during the runup to the war, but the mark of a great leader is to be able to objectively look at thier decisions and learn from them...well on the other hand maybe he did learn from that because he isnt talking about invading any other of them axis of evil members.
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17): Most of what you listed were just as bad well before GWB came to office, like immigration, medical insurance and deficits, among others.
Sure it was just as bad before, but it hasnt had much if any focus since he came into office. He has a GOP house and senate for the time being and has for several years now. This is when he should be able to push quality legislation through and solve long standing problems easier than Clinton when he tried to pass ground breaking bills.
In terms of immigration the problem has compounded into a worse situation. More and more illegals are coming in and despite the terror threat he isnt doing much about it.
Bush went from record surplus to record defecit in less than 4 years. All the while having tax cuts. I wont disagree that tax levels are good right now, but not when we are trying to pay for a very very costly war, something has to give.
25 AGM100: I assume you have some proof of this . I know I am not rich and have been doing fine the last 5 years. I just bought another house , and practically
26 Jaysit: And to you patriotic screamers who praise the deliverance of Iraqis from a dictator (as if you gave a damn), where were you when he committed his wor
27 AGM100: No actually it was when I saw the glassed over sunken eyes of Kurdish children after Saddams "crop sprayer MI-8's'" flew over. Never saw Wall street
28 Falcon84: There's no way to know, AGM, if Al Gore would have been better or worse, is there? You just assume because you don't like him and didn't vote for him
29 AGM100: Your right about that Falcon , I guess we just have to see what happens in the future. I like President Bush, I honestly do. I dont try to hide it an
30 Planespotting: The housing market boom and subsequent bubble is the result of 4+ years of record low interest rates. The rates are coming up now, and everyone is sc
31 Jamesag96: I do have my own thoughts on this and was formulating them for a long and lengthy response as I have very little to do today as I am home recovering a
32 AGM100: See this is what I dont get , in order to have any basis to vote democrat you have to prove how bad things are. And how the governement is going to h
33 Cairo: I feel that given an unbaised historical view, it would be easy to argue Bush has done OK to good with the economy and has severely hurt foreign polic
34 JamesAg96: I may be in the dark here and if I am please enlighten me...but I am still waiting to see someone that has had their civil liberties infringed upon as
35 Bushpilot: How about wanting a constitutional amendment banning gay marraige? Him placing judges on the SCotUS that will most likely over turn Roe V Wade one da
36 JamesAg96: That is what you came up with? Seriously? You know of people that have had their civil liberties infringed upon by an amendment that hasn't been pass