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Evangelical Christians To Start Lobby For Israel  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/701583.html

Very interesting article...I'm still amazed at how large a demographic Evangelical Christians are...

NEW YORK - Televangelist John Hagee told Jewish community leaders over the weekend that the 40 million evangelical Christians in the United States support Israel and that he plans to utilize this power to help Israel by launching a Christian pro-Israel lobby.

Hagee said his group would be a Christian - and more powerful - version of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a large pro-Israel lobby, and would target senators and congressmen on Capitol Hill. A quarter of congressmen are evangelicals, and many American legislators represent regions that include a large evangelical population, he said.

Hagee - the founder and senior pastor of the evangelical Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, that claims an active membership of more than 18,000 - said the lobby's activities would be a "political earthquake."

In his meeting with Mekel, Hagee said he planned to establish an effective network of key activists across the United States who can be reached within 24 hours if necessary for emergency lobbying efforts. He said he has already appointed 12 regional directors who are to be responsible for lobby activities in their areas and that he plans to appoint representatives in every state and major city.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1751 times:

But I thought Jews control the United States? We don't need no stinkin evangelicals trying to take over our gig of manipulating the government...  biggrin 


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User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 1):
But I thought Jews control the United States? We don't need no stinkin evangelicals trying to take over our gig of manipulating the government...

LOL! Big grin

I would hope that no self respecting Jewish person would buy in to this bull$hit. These evangelical Christians scumbags think that Jews don't go to heaven nor think that God listens to there prayers. This group is totally pandering to Jews because they are financially successful as a group. If Jewish people were mostly poor, I seriously doubt these evangelical Christians would make this kind of effort.

Here is how they really feel behind closed doors:

http://ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=6311

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcon2.htm

http://www.baptistfire.com/gospel/smith.shtml

I am confident my Senators Boxer & Feinstein won't buy in to this bull$h!t.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1737 times:

Why does Israel need Lobbyists?
Is not Israel a close friend of the U.S.?

What are they really doing here?
Because the way I see it, Lobbyists are the domain of groups that remain outside of the mainstream. Their purpose is to get through non-conventional thinking.
When I think of Lobbyists, I think of the Tobacco Lobby, the Gaming Lobby, the Petroleum Lobby, etc, less than savory groups that need to employ special favours to obtain favourable legislation.

Maybe the U.S. is not as pro-Israel as we thought?

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Hagee said he planned to establish an effective network of key activists across the United States who can be reached within 24 hours if necessary for emergency lobbying efforts.

What the....."Emergency Lobbying efforts"?



Delete this User
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 3):
Maybe the U.S. is not as pro-Israel as we thought?

The U.S. is very pro-Israel and this group has an agenda. As the U.S. slides more in the direction of fundamentalist Christian non-sense, this group wants to get support from Jewish groups that lean Democratic. They want to help elect more Republicans and fundamentalist to power and they want to get support from wealthy Jewish donors.
Fortunately, most Jews are smart enough to see through this crap.

These fundamentalist deep down inside don’t like Jews but they hate Muslims even more. There public support for Israel just helps fans the flames and push us closer to there ultimate goal; a war between Christians and Muslims.
You know the end result of that will be.
Truly scary shit!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
There public support for Israel just helps fans the flames and push us closer to there ultimate goal; a war between Christians and Muslims.
You know the end result of that will be.

Yeah...basically more of the same s**t that has plagued the world for the last 1000 years.



Delete this User
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 5):
Yeah...basically more of the same s**t that has plagued the world for the last 1000 years.

Yep.
Very sad.  Sad



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

There have been several quotes from Evangelicals that they support Israel because the re-estalishment of a Jewish state is a sign of the 'End Days', and thus the coming of Judgement Day. Considering their belief that on that day all non-believers, including Jews, will be judged wanting, you would think this would be a case of 'thanks but no thanks' from the Jewish community.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 3):
Because the way I see it, Lobbyists are the domain of groups that remain outside of the mainstream. Their purpose is to get through non-conventional thinking.
When I think of Lobbyists, I think of the Tobacco Lobby, the Gaming Lobby, the Petroleum Lobby, etc, less than savory groups that need to employ special favours to obtain favourable legislation.

The AARP (retired people) lobby
The trial lawyers lobby
Union lobby
World Wildlife Fund
etc.

Interest groups hire lobbyists to push fir their agenda, whatever it may be. And those interest groups represent a wide range of 'things'.


User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2594 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1710 times:

This blog links to a really great, but disturbing Vanity Fair article on the role of American evangelicals in the pro-Israel movement.


http://www.preteristarchive.com/pretblog/?p=6


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 3):
Because the way I see it, Lobbyists are the domain of groups that remain outside of the mainstream. Their purpose is to get through non-conventional thinking.

Not all lobbyist groups are bad. Think of them as salespeople, whose job is it to convince Congress that their products are useful. These can be bad things, but they can also be good things. Last summer I met with a lobbyist for the public transportation industry. His job is to get more money put into mass transit in various communities in the US. I don't have a problem with that at all.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
These evangelical Christians scumbags think that Jews don't go to heaven nor think that God listens to there prayers. This group is totally pandering to Jews because they are financially successful as a group. If Jewish people were mostly poor, I seriously doubt these evangelical Christians would make this kind of effort.

That's mostly an urban legend (that most Jews buy, sadly)....Sure there will be some extremists in a group of 40,000,000....But the majority of them no longer subscribe to that type of theology...Here is another quote by this guy John Hagee:

In precise and deliberate language, flavored with a rich, deep Texas drawl, he asserted that a growing majority of evangelical leaders do not preach "replacement theology, which teaches that the Church has replaced Israel" and the Jews "have no future in the plan of God." The vast majority of evangelicals, rather, teach that "the Christians have a Bible mandate to be supportive of Israel and the Jewish people without a hidden agenda."

True to that interpretation, Hagee said, "I do not target Jews for conversion."

The websites you linked are quite scary though, and I don't doubt that there are many of these people around....


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

RJpieces,

Evangelical leaders in the US do not represent the interests of our nation's Jewish community or those of the State of Israel. Anyone wishing to form a political alliance with these individuals should think very hard and reject the offer.

Christian evangelical groups wish to introduce biblical ideology into our nation's civil and political institutions. They do not recognize the secular nature of our nation's government and apply the test of religious theology to public policy issues.

These groups do not represent the interests of our nation and our fellow citizens, including religious minorities such our vibrant Jewish community.

These groups are politically powerful and exercise tremendous influence over federal and local policy-making.

The interests of racial, religious, ethnic and sexual minorities are NOT served by endorsing these groups' activities. Thankfully, many in our nation's Jewish community recognize exactly what Christian evangelical groups wish to accomplish and want nothing to do with these people.


User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

Quote:
I would hope that no self respecting Jewish person would buy in to this bull$hit. These evangelical Christians scumbags think that Jews don't go to heaven nor think that God listens to there prayers. This group is totally pandering to Jews because they are financially successful as a group. If Jewish people were mostly poor, I seriously doubt these evangelical Christians would make this kind of effort.

Great response. My Ultra Funtamental Hardcore Independant Baptist grandfather always says the Jews are hopeless and they all should convert to his religion. Heck, He even tells me that I'm going to Hell for my Anglo-Catholic beliefs. (I am a Methodist that attends an Episcopal Church)

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

Quote:
Christian evangelical groups wish to introduce biblical ideology into our nation's civil and political institutions. They do not recognize the secular nature of our nation's government and apply the test of religious theology to public policy issues.

Yes they do and I cant stand it. Our nations govt. is secular and it outta stay that way. Secularism is the way to go.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3506 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

Awesome! Israel definetly doesn't get enough U.S. aid as it is...


Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
These evangelical Christians scumbags think that Jews don't go to heaven nor think that God listens to there prayers. This group is totally pandering to Jews because they are financially successful as a group.

Not exactly.

Many Fundementalist Christians believe that Jesus Christ will return once Israel is once again complete, which includes the ancient Israeli tribal areas in the West Bank. This is why Fundementalists have backed up hardline policy against the Palestinians and for outright annexation of the West Bank.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I would hope that no self respecting Jewish person would buy in to this bull$hit.

Exactly! Probably this is the first step towards a huge conversion campaign.. I don't trust these Telepastors à la Pat Robertson style, who call for the assassination of head of states who do not follow the "utter doctrine of freedom"  duck 

[Edited 2006-04-06 10:59:08]

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 16):
Many Fundementalist Christians believe...

They'll believe just about anything.
It's all about the money Charlie. Do you really believe these fundie whore crackpots would have so much 'compassion' for Jews if they were not finacially successful as a group?
How comes these fundies aren't helping there Christian bretheren south of the border coming to the U.S. seeking a better life for themselves and there family ?
Oh wait, those are poor Latinos and mostly Catholics.
Catholics go to hell right?
Please spare us the Biblical crap.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 1603 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
It's all about the money Charlie. Do you really believe these fundie whore crackpots would have so much 'compassion' for Jews if they were not finacially successful as a group?

It has nothing to do with money. Those are your prejudices talking.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
How comes these fundies aren't helping there Christian bretheren south of the border coming to the U.S. seeking a better life for themselves and there family ?

Because they have no reason to, in biblical terms, and secondly, what the illegal immigrants are doing is against the law.

I'm soon coming to the US to work. I have a US passport, so no problems there. But my wife does not, and I will probably have to spend at least 6 months on my own before her papers are granted and she can join me. Some have waited several years.

Is it "christian" in your eyes to help people jump the line and get ahead of people who are patiently waiting their turn? Also remember, one of the main reasons for the long waits for legally immigrating is the illegal immigration problem. The country can only absorb so many people in a year without causing social and economic problems. One of the reasons that the State Department is so slow in granting legal visas is that they know there are half a million illegal immigrants every year, so they have to grant fewer legal visas in order to avoid excessive immigration. If you prevent illegal immigration, the State Department can ease up.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Please spare us the Biblical crap.

It may be crap to you and me, but THEY believe it.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
Those are your prejudices talking.

"prejudices"?
WTF?!?!?
Are you learing debating skills from Redngold?
Give me a break Charlie!
I know you are smarter than that.
What did I say that could be preceived as "prejudices"?
Are you a part of this group of Evangilicals?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
Because they have no reason to, in biblical terms,

Typical 'let $h!t happen to others' conseravative protestant attitude.  Yeah sure

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
Is it "christian" in your eyes to help people jump the line and get ahead of people who are patiently waiting their turn?

I'd much rather help the Mexican family entering the U.S. illegally than someone from a 1st world nation like Switzerland or Germany just because they want to pay less taxes .


Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
It may be crap to you and me, but THEY believe it.

Thus they are idiots and shouldn't be taken seriously. Why are you defending them?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 1595 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
What did I say that could be preceived as "prejudices"?

Because you are charging them with wanting the Jews' money (along with the presumption that the Jews have a lot of it), sounds like prejudice to me, since you have no evidence to support it. If a Fundie preacher tries to convince his church to support Israel, he does it based on the idea of "restoring the land of Israel". They don't want to hear anything about Jewish money, for one thing because it is THEY who are giving money and support to Israel, not the other way round.

Your argument makes no sense, and is based on colored stereotypes. That is why I call it prejudice.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Are you a part of this group of Evangilicals?

Hell no. I'm a fallen Catholic.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Typical 'let $h!t happen to others' conseravative protestant attitude.

Mexico and the US simply are not mentioned in the bible.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
I'd much rather help the Mexican family entering the U.S. illegally than someone from a 1st world nation like Switzerland or Germany just because they want to pay less taxes .

Well thanks a f%&king lot. By the way, American taxes are a lot higher than Swiss taxes, so know what you are talking about before spouting off. Taxes are the least of my reasons.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Thus they are idiots and shouldn't be taken seriously. Why are you defending them?

I'm not defending them! I think their position is stupid. Anyone fundie who believes that the Bible is word-for-word true is a twit, considering how many translations of translations the current Bible is based on. Even the Pope has said that the Bible is largely allegorical, and is not infallible.

I was simply trying to straighten you out on your simplistic explanations on why fundies support Israel.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 1586 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 21):
Because you are charging them with wanting the Jews' money (along with the presumption that the Jews have a lot of it), sounds like prejudice to me, since you have no evidence to support it.

Your attempt to label me as "prejudice.
is "weak" at best.
Do you plan on runing for office when you get here?
Trying to line up some donors?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 21):
Mexico and the US simply are not mentioned in the bible.

Now that's a cop-out answer. They are human beings. Does that mean anything to you?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 21):
American taxes are a lot higher than Swiss taxes

OK replace with The Netherlands, France or the U.K.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 21):
I was simply trying to straighten you out on your simplistic explanations on why fundies support Israel.

Sounds like I have a better understanding than you do.
You are 'flip=flopping' on this issue.  Sad



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Do you plan on runing for office when you get here?

Perhaps  Smile

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Now that's a cop-out answer. They are human beings. Does that mean anything to you?

That does not give them the right to wander across borders without permission.

Tell you what. When you can tell me that you are willing to leave your front door unlocked and allow anyone to wander in anytime while you are away, I'll reconsider my position.

In any case we were talking about the fundies' opinion, not mine.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
OK replace with The Netherlands, France or the U.K.

If they do it legally what's your problem with it?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
You are 'flip=flopping' on this issue.

Where?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 11 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 23):
If they do it legally what's your problem with it?

Well those countries are well off and have running water. In many ways are much more advanced nations than we are. I can't imagine any other reason why someone from the E.U. would want to move here other than paying less taxes. That is a very selfish reason for immigrating here.
Selfish and greedy folk are the last thing we need here. We have too many people like that as it is.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 23):
When you can tell me that you are willing to leave your front door unlocked and allow anyone to wander in anytime while you are away

Most that sneak across already have family here waiting for them.  Smile
Now if she looks like Daisy Fuentes or Jennifer Lopez, I'd let her move in with me and wouldn't charge her rent. Big grin

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 23):
That does not give them the right to wander across borders without permission.

That statement is putting government above God's teachings.



Bring back the Concorde
25 Cfalk : That's just ignorant. I'll tell you a few reasons why I'm moving. Better job opportunities, lower unemployment, a much friendlier culture professiona
26 Superfly : Not under Dubya & co's rule. Cfalk: I don't want you to think I was making a personal attack against you by coming here.
27 Post contains images RJpieces : Gotta love the progression of A.net threads Actually, they are very active in Africa as well as on the environment. Have you seen the commercials rece
28 Post contains images Jacobin777 : under tax-exemption codes, religious groups are supposed to be non-partisan and are not allowed to endorse any particular party...nor are they allowe
29 PHLBOS : Many of the lobbying groups (religious in origin or not) that you speak of mention quite clearly that donations to their organizations for the partic
30 A332 : The whackie evangelicals only support Israel in this manner because they believe this is the way to bring about the 'Apocalypse' and the 'Rapture', as
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