Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Macs Run Windows XP - Official  
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

Now, quite an number of people thought the latest OSX update (10.4.6) would break the recent hacks allowing Xp to be installed on Intel Macs, so this is quite an upturn!

Richard

144 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Lol, I knew about this quite a while ago... It was only a matter of time...


Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

Now it looks like i'll definatley be buying a Mac next time I buy a PC... gaming problem solved!

Are there any limitations to this?


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12285 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2669 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Two questions:

1. How the hell do you right click?  Wink
2. With an Intel processor running Windows, how is this different than just buying a PC?



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 1):
Lol, I knew about this quite a while ago... It was only a matter of time...

This is Windows XP onto an Intel Mac, not OSX onto a generic nonApple PC like you wanted to do the other day.


User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
This is Windows XP onto an Intel Mac, not OSX onto a generic nonApple PC like you wanted to do the other day.

Yes, I can read.. Getting MacOs to run on a PC was done some time last year

As soon as Apple moved to X86 I knew it would only be a matter of time before someone managed to get Windows XP running on Apple hardware...

This is definetly a pie in apples face... So much for them putting a lock-out chip on their hardware...



Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21877 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

I'd be interested to know how the performance compares in terms of games, etc.

I use a PC, but only because FS isn't out for the Mac. If this is able to solve that issue, a Mac just might be in my future....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
I use a PC, but only because FS isn't out for the Mac. If this is able to solve that issue, a Mac just might be in my future....

I was thinking that myself because nothing is really keeping me on Windows anymore... It used to be flightsim but I hardly even touch that anymore.

I actually like the OsX layout and I've always enjoyed playing with macs but in the past they've never really been compatable with the programs I've wanted to use... although with the Apple revolution happening I can see myself using one...



Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 5):
Yes, I can read.. Getting MacOs to run on a PC was done some time last year

I was just making sure  Smile

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 5):
As soon as Apple moved to X86 I knew it would only be a matter of time before someone managed to get Windows XP running on Apple hardware...

That in itself happened a few weeks back, when someone booted XP on an Imac and won themselves $14,000. But it isnt very pretty, and certainly not something you want to do all the time.

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 5):
This is definetly a pie in apples face... So much for them putting a lock-out chip on their hardware...

Uhm, huh? The TCPA chip is designed to keep OSX locked to the hardware, and it does its job pretty well considering the absolutely *crap* you have to go through to get it to boot on a non Apple x86 system, as well as it stopping you updating such systems whenever a new OSX update comes out. So you end up with an out of date, potentially insecure OS thats partially comprised of binaries someone else has hacked to work that takes ages to reinstall if you need to, not exactly an OS I would trust.

OSX on generic x86 systems will always be in the realms of the hackers only, unless Apple releases a version themselves (which is highly unlikely to happen).

The 'lock-out chip' has nothing to do with stopping other OSes from running on Intel Macs, Linux booted quite a while ago. The only thing stopping XP from booting until now is the lack of a bios compatability level in the EFI that the Intel macs use (not included because Apple didnt need it!).


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 5):
This is definetly a pie in apples face... So much for them putting a lock-out chip on their hardware...

Apple has always used a low-key approach to protection; Just look at the very mild DRM they use for the iTunes Music Store.

It is more a "you really shouldn't be doing this!" attitude than the usual fire-and-brimstone one.

Since many "bootleggers" will sooner or later be tempted to buy a proper Mac the next time around, it's just another way of subversive marketing. Although the notorious Apple legal department would rather die than admit to that, of course! Big grin


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

I'm surprised this announcement hasn't forced Klaus into suicide  Wink


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

Well, Put it this way... I've always been extreamly anti-mac... You could get me in a bad mood just getting into it and as of lately, I'm starting to turn my head on the views... I'm getting bored of Windows and I've even been looking at cheap macs on ebay  duck 

I believe the 'hackers' may eventually find a way to run XP Natively on a Mac... I even believe there will be a way to do this on a true X86 machine...

The MacOs X86 that was floating around that people had been using on IBM Machines was a VM Ware image... Infact I was using it myself at one stage but that's another story

It's still early days yet but... Apple shouldn't be too afraid about getting OsX running on IBM machines because it means they can sell their OS to another market... even if they aren't buying their parts...

Let's just say... If you get a taste of the honey you usually want more



Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):
I'm surprised this announcement hasn't forced Klaus into suicide

Why should it? I've run Windows on my Macs with VirtualPC for years by now.

Actually, about once per year is more like it.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 11):
It's still early days yet but... Apple shouldn't be too afraid about getting OsX running on IBM machines because it means they can sell their OS to another market... even if they aren't buying their parts...

Apple isnt in the market of selling an OS.


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Is it just me, or wouldn't it be better marketing for Apple the other way round? Very few people will actually buy a very expensive PC to try out the Mac System, but far more would be interested in buying a €200 OS to try it out...

User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Quoting Racko (Reply 14):
Is it just me, or wouldn't it be better marketing for Apple the other way round? Very few people will actually buy a very expensive PC to try out the Mac System, but far more would be interested in buying a €200 OS to try it out...

I shall repeat  Smile Infact, no I wont, I shall jsut quote myself:-

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Apple isnt in the market of selling an OS.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

Quoting Racko (Reply 14):
Is it just me, or wouldn't it be better marketing for Apple the other way round? Very few people will actually buy a very expensive PC to try out the Mac System, but far more would be interested in buying a ¬200 OS to try it out...

"Very few" is a relative term. Increasingly relative, it appears...!

Apple has always put a strong emphasis on providing an excellent user experience. And that simply requires hardware and software design being tuned to each other and held to the same quality standards (which are not perfect at Apple, either, but certainly near or at the top of what's available).

So Apple now has the only computers which can run all three major operating systems: MacOS X, Linux and Windows. All other vendors have only the last two as an option.

I'd say both Apple and the users can work with that...


User currently offlineTbnist03 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 106 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 3):
How the hell do you right click?

In my slight experience with Macs, usually if you hold the shift key and click, its like right clicking. (at least with yahoo pool  Wink)

With this news following the Intel chips being put in Macs, it makes me shudder. I am NOT a fan of Intel, nor a big fan of windows. I use windows out of necessity. If I had enough money, I would be the proud owner of the best G5 money could buy.

Personally, I think that windows running on a Mac will have some advantages, such as for people who do a lot of CAD-stuff. It would be nice to run AutoCAD on a Mac, then work on it in Photoshop. Definitely would eliminate the windows box in that case.

Only time will tell in regards to how this will shape the future market. I look forward to seeing what develops though.



-Mike
User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 17):
In my slight experience with Macs, usually if you hold the shift key and click, its like right clicking. (at least with yahoo pool

The new Mac Mice have touch sensors on them like a touch pad on a laptop which have upto 5 or 6 enableable buttons and a scroll wheel... I think this was macs best addition yet... the fact they're coming up with the 2 button (or more) mouse finally shows they're finally getting it (Whatever 'It' means)

I think Mac is going to have a good future...



Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 17):
In my slight experience with Macs, usually if you hold the shift key and click, its like right clicking.

Control. I guess the Windows mouse driver for the Macs will allow that combination or a different one to be used as well (for the single trackpad button on the mobile Macs); If you connect an external mouse, just use one with more than one button and it works right away.

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 17):
Personally, I think that windows running on a Mac will have some advantages, such as for people who do a lot of CAD-stuff. It would be nice to run AutoCAD on a Mac, then work on it in Photoshop. Definitely would eliminate the windows box in that case.

...or for all the Windows-based games. Apparently Apple's drivers are fully 3D-capable, so games using ActiveX 9 should run well.

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 17):
Only time will tell in regards to how this will shape the future market. I look forward to seeing what develops though.

One way to look at it:

If you're a Windows user thinking about an upgrade to Vista, you'll most probably have to upgrade your hardware anyway.

With Vista delayed again, your best strategy would be this:
- Buy a Mac instead of a Windows-only PC.
- Install your current Windows on it if you must,
- Use it as your new PC.
- Check out MacOS X, while you're at it - it's included anyway. Even the current version 10.4 "Tiger" is already ahead of what Windows Vista is supposed to offer when it'll come out eventually (2007? 2008?), By that time, MacOS X will be at 10.5 "Leopard" already, again a major step ahead.
- If you should still prefer Windows to OS X, you can just install Vista (when it's finally available) and be done with it. According to recent tests, Macs are apparently very fast PCs under Windows.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

I just got one of the new Mac Minis as my computer at my office...I've been pretty impressed with it so far...I'm not a huge fan of the Mac OSX layout, but other than that I have been quite pleased.

Jeff


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 1):
Lol, I knew about this quite a while ago... It was only a matter of time...

Agreed, once they introduced those Intel chips, I new this was a matter of when and not if Windows would officially run on Apple computers.
.
.
.
So, I pose the question is Steve Jobs good for the Mac? I don't doubt his business sense when it comes to Mp3 players and music downloads, which have bode well for Apple's bottom line, but is Steve Jobs the right man to lead the Mac computer line up.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 20):
.I'm not a huge fan of the Mac OSX layout, but other than that I have been quite pleased.

Like any other change it will need a bit of getting used to at first; Just give it a little time.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 21):
So, I pose the question is Steve Jobs good for the Mac? I don't doubt his business sense when it comes to Mp3 players and music downloads, which have bode well for Apple's bottom line, but is Steve Jobs the right man to lead the Mac computer line up.

This step is a major coup, even if an expected one.

Pretty much every Mac user knows Windows anyway - being able to install it on every new Mac will not weaken the platform since hardly anyone would "switch back" - Mac users generally know why they want to get away from Windows as far as possible.

The new option will only open the door even wider to Windows users who still have trepidations about making the switch.

As of today, Apple has officially thrown the gauntlet at Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba and the rest of the box assemblers under Microsoft's fist. Under the precondition of the switch to Intel (unfortunately necessary for several reasons), it's an excellent move!


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Just to add a little perspective:

From Wall Street Journal Online - Mac's Moment?:

Quote:
Japan's Aozora Bank Ltd. is planning to do something once unheard of in the business world: switch nearly all of its 2,300 desktop personal computers to Apple Computer Inc.'s Macintosh computers.

Most companies use PCs that run on some version of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system. But in a multi-year effort to replace its outdated mishmash of computers -- most running older versions of Windows -- Aozora is forsaking the standard PC.

A third of the company's computers already are Macs -- including sleek iMac computers that combine a screen and hard drive in one unit with a camera perched atop that allows employees to videoconference. Within a few months, Aozora expects about 90% of its machines will be Macs.

What brought on the switch?

Bill Chute, Aozora's chief technology officer, says the company decided to go with Macs because of Apple's latest operating system, Mac OS X, which has made the machines more stable and functional for many business users. Before OS X, "it would have been impossible," he says, because Macs didn't have the reliability and the functions that Aozora needs.

Would it be surprising to guess that Apple tipped their hand about Boot Camp to encourage the switch? Rather likely, I'd say - they know now that they will have a backup option if they should need one. (Not that I'd expect them to, but options are always nice when selling a decision to the board.)


25 Max999 : There's a bit of irony here. If the Mac is so user-friendly and well designed, why would Mac users even want to use Windows? Why even bother with the
26 Captaink : 1. Hold the ctrl key while clicking. If you have a two buttom mouse, the right clicking functions works just fine. I use a USB mouse on my iBook. 2.
27 AirPacific747 : well whats the big deal? Virtual PC has existed for a long time already...
28 RichardPrice : Games and custom proprietory applications such as kids educationals, work applications etc. They are, havent you seen the stuff on techy boards about
29 Klaus : Simple: We don't! (Except for those rare cases where we've used VirtualPC in the past, or for games. As I said, it's been about once a year for me so
30 Eilennaei : Oh no! Ordinary people now may want acquaint themselves with the Macs. When a company that for years has catered for the needs of the corps of the int
31 Captaink : yeah, but the performance of windows, especially XP on VPC really sucks. Running windows without an emulator is fantastic. Now i can revert to my Fli
32 Post contains links and images Klaus : Well, as they say: There's a downside to everything...! It's a widespread misconception (primarily among sour-tempered Windows-sufferers, for some re
33 Post contains images AirPacific747 : ah okay.. cool! I want an apple book pro!!!
34 Post contains images Cadet57 : Likewise. New macbook for school, yay! Very good. I have a pro photog friend of mine that used a non-supported hack and it ran as good as his 2.9 ghz
35 Eilennaei : At least to me it was always clear, being a priviledged one in the Avant Garde has had a detrimental effect on the values of some Mac evangelists. It
36 Post contains images Klaus : Actually, I just enjoy what I do and like to help others to it as well. But if the other explanation makes you happier - just be my guest!
37 RichardPrice : Its accessable to the masses, they just have to go and seek out a mac shop (not hard) and buy one. Theres no special handshake, theres no entry requi
38 Max999 : Let me clarify... The irony is in the fact that having to spend time/money/effort to create an emulator (Virtual PC, Boot Camp, etc) is an admission t
39 Klaus : Apple never denied that Windows had won market share. But in pretty much every other respect it doesn't look exactly healthy - a bloated, bleeding, p
40 RichardPrice : Why bother admitting whats blatantly fecking obvious to anyone? By making a bootloader (BootCamp is not an emulator) that allows Windows XP to boot,
41 Post contains images F9Widebody : Check out the mac mighty mouse. That thing will blow your mind. You mean Direct X?
42 Klaus : Crap - yes, of course! (Shudder!)
43 Post contains images RichardPrice : Apple really needs to do a wireless version of the MM Im not buying one until they do
44 Eilennaei : Klaus, which words do I have to enter into google to verify this statement?
45 Eilennaei : Well yes, there's only so many members of the creative elite in the world with the Mac boxes and their Mac superiority complex. You will need to move
46 Mir : What kind of Mac was this on? -Mir
47 Aseem : Here is what I think 1. By allowing Apple computers to run on Windows, it has increased potential customers 2. It has nothing to lose as Mac is consid
48 Post contains links and images Jap : Look what you made me do!!! What A.net Threads Can Lead To... (by Jap Apr 6 2006 in Non Aviation) This thread and all its mac talk just made me buy an
49 Post contains links and images Klaus : Absolutely! Now there's even less that could hold people back from switching. Yep. That's the critical point - of course there should still be versio
50 Eilennaei : Yes, there's nothing to prevent them from not being the best-selling Unix variant on the PC platform. They have made significant steps towards an ope
51 Scott2187 : ok...this would be my question with the whole switching back and forth bewtween OS when rebooting: if i put, say music files, in iTunes on one OS, say
52 RichardPrice : Windows cannot read HFS+ filesystems, but OSX can read NTFS filesystems, so maybe.
53 Klaus : Yes. MacOS X can mount the Windows partition read/write if it's in FAT format (up to 32GB) or read only if it's in NTFS format. Conversely, Windows c
54 Scott2187 : hmm.... i think a better idea for me would be to just get a new mac when 10.5 comes out, and keep my old viao for windows applications.
55 Post contains images Klaus : Quite possibly..! Apple usually offers free major OS X version upgrades only for buyers in a relatively short grace period before the new version cam
56 Eilennaei : If Apple is going to milk people into buying their overpriced hardware like they've done since the 80s, they are failing. This is the 2000s and hardw
57 Klaus : So why do PCs rarely come out cheaper when you compare them to Macs feature-by-feature at comparable quality levels? Where exactly does that mythical
58 Cadet57 : single processor G5 with 1024mb ram and an 80 gig hdd. He also tried it on his DP setup and it ran even better...
59 RichardPrice : Well, Apples profits have only gone up overall over the past 6 years since the introduction of OSX, so I think that you are talking out of your ass,
60 Scott2187 : in english please. or understandable terms... i'm not at the top of my thinking game today.
61 Eilennaei : I did write something about abandoning the proprietary systems like proprietary hardware and adopting an open system architecture, did I not? Going U
62 Eilennaei : Mind you, that was not me you were quoting, but Klaus. My Klausian-to-English module yields: "In a virtual environment (an environment created by sys
63 RichardPrice : There is no difference between the following, in terms of 'proprietoriness': 1. PPC, OpenFirmware 2. Intel x86, EFI 3. Intel x86, Bios Openfirmware i
64 Dougloid : Don't know about that, but I had a Mac from 1992 to 1999 and used it a lot. It was a good experience for a novice computer owner. For a while there I
65 KaiGywer : I've wanted to try a Mac, but they are just too expensive for my tastes. If the price was lowered, then maybe. I guess I'll try to get Linux to run. W
66 Eilennaei : Yeah, me lotsa dumb fellow. But, at least I've got my spells of spelling correctly. And I don't even cheat by using the checker. I wonder if I touche
67 RichardPrice : Because I dont want Apple to die, thats why. Apple makes > 50% of their income from hardware and you want to take that away from them ... why exactly
68 LOT767-300ER : You cant buy an Apple desktop with a AMD Athlon 64, 160GB HD, 512mb RAM + 15 LCD for $499USD. Thats where it comes from. 99% of the freaking public d
69 Eilennaei : The operative word is proprietary, as I noted a couple of times. Do you have something against the free software movement and independently defined s
70 RichardPrice : No, but OSX is neither free software in any sense of the term (Libre or Gratis) or is it independantly defined software either. You are most welcome
71 Klaus : Correct. Apple doesn't offer computers in the lowest quality class. That's why I wrote "of comparable quality". If you don't value your time at all a
72 Eilennaei : But endorse some proprietaty systems anyway? And make a point of their stock value?
73 Eilennaei : Yep, the Proletariat is on the move. The elite know better.
74 RichardPrice : Why shouldnt I, its all a choice that individuals have to make. Im not an opensource zealot, I use the best tool for the job and Im sorry but opensou
75 Eilennaei : Yes, keep us posted on the Apple stock development, will ya. I'm hitting the sack, Eastern European time & style.
76 Post contains images Jap : As this is a mac thread, I guess I could post a few questions I've thought of the past day or so... 1) on screenshots of OS X, you only see that blue
77 Post contains links and images RichardPrice : Oh yes Let me demonstrate: Not really, its not built in but there are applications out there to do it. http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/shapeshifter fo
78 Klaus : If it simply takes a little experience with a Mac to ascend from ignorant "proletariat" in your words to knowing "elite" (again in your words), the d
79 Post contains images Dougloid : A fine distinction but one well worth noting. It's the comparison between a nice restaurant and the typical lunch that is served in prison. Both will
80 LOT767-300ER : Why are you telling me this? I dont use the systems...I sell them. I happen to love my Dell XPS Laptop. Customers dont care about time, but save of d
81 Wardialer : So what....Apples can run dual-boots with Windows..Nothing new.. Same thing happened with Sun's Solaris/UNIX operating system which Im running right n
82 Eilennaei : You just don't have enough of the Klausian highbrow stuff yet. Let me show how to translate these into your master's speak, thus: I have a worthwhile
83 LOT767-300ER : Actually its more like Trader Joe's speciality high end supermarket and Wal-Mart. Quality in one, quantity and cheap prices in the other. Answer thes
84 Dougloid : I haven't figured the bold thang out yet. You gotta remember-I'm the son of a Flahda cracka of German extraction and an Irish mother whose family was
85 Hawaiian717 : Apple doesn't need to be the biggest. They've found a little (Macintosh) and not-so-little (iPod) niche that makes them sufficiently profitable. Wind
86 Post contains links and images Klaus : Just being an agent of evil doesn't automatically exclude you from a topical discussion - everybody can still learn some more. Another mistake of per
87 Post contains images AC773 : Uh, I believe that would be Trader Joe's proliterian organic hippie-mart (I mean that in the nicest way possible, as I happen to shop there frequentl
88 LOT767-300ER : Who says everyone is hostile to Mac's...im not. I just prefer the price of a PC than that of an Apple. Agent of Evil...wow. Surely, I didnt know supe
89 Post contains images JBLUA320 : Windows on a Mac? Music to my ears! This just made my college laptop decision much easier. My MacBookPro is ordered JBLU
90 Post contains images Eilennaei : for the old esoteric Mac.
91 Post contains links Klaus : Not everyone, but most Windows-only shops range between ignorance and outright hostility when it's about Macs. So I (as most other Mac users) simply
92 AirWillie6475 : I just made the switch to Mac a few weeks ago and I feel like I should have switched a long time ago. The world of Mac is so much better. I will never
93 Eilennaei : So you don't even buy any USB hardware from a Windows shop at a lower price, is that correct? Btw someone at work made a switch from Mac to Windows a
94 Klaus : Not if I'd have to pay for the "cheap" price with shoddy quality or substandard service or ignorant support. If I want quality - and I generally do -
95 LHMARK : This is so awesome! Now I can buy a $3000 Windows PC in which I can't even upgrade the video card! Rock!
96 Klaus : You probably can - just not from Apple. The Macs in the workstation class (which would match your given price range) all have expansion slots and rep
97 Eilennaei : So you never go to a non-Apple shop for any USB hardware? Do you own or have you ever owned any non-Apple branded products?[Edited 2006-04-13 01:17:1
98 Klaus : Sure I do - but pure sticker price is a secondary concern; The actual price / value relation is the primary one. And the quality of the manufacturer
99 AC773 : Yes you can, but not easily. It has to be specially made for Mac, regardless of whether or not the card is physically compatible with the slot. To ad
100 Klaus : We'll have to wait and see what the successor machines of the PowerMacs will be like. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the requirements for graphi
101 Eilennaei : Oh, well, here goes my rhetorics... Dare I ask up front what particular devices the selection would consist of?
102 Klaus : Several. I don't see the point in a listing.
103 AC773 : Lagging behind? If anyone's lagging behind in the gaming market, it's Apple. Two things need to happen before gamers buy a Mac: -Games! Apple does no
104 Post contains images Klaus : I was not talking about games-specific features. I was talking about the system architecture - and while Apple is already using EFI, most PCs are sti
105 AC773 : Well, allow me to clear that one up. More than 80% of the gamer market live and breathe hardware. If we haven't built our own machines, we have the s
106 Post contains images Klaus : We seem to have used different definitions of what the "gamer market" is - I was thinking of the broader market of people who use several games with
107 LOT767-300ER : You thought the gamer market included my 9 year old cousin who play Zoo Tycoon? Laughable...at best.
108 Eilennaei : I just wanted to know whether you would have let any 5th colonists in ... just watch out for them babies now... This just shows how far apart Klaus a
109 Post contains images Klaus : No. Any user who buys a computer for at least the partial purpose of playing games is obviously taking part in the gamer market. There are obviously
110 Post contains images Klaus : Sure, I'm an arch-villain. And even worse: I disagree with you about several things! How dare I?
111 RichardPrice : The market may explode, but the profits would dwindle massively. Apple doesnt really care about market share, it cares about profit.
112 AC773 : Software is where all the profits are. The manufacturing cost is so low that the profits are unbelievable. If Apple just sold their OS on the store s
113 RichardPrice : And this falacy continues to be propagated. Do you realise that it actually costs a hell of a lot more money to make the software than the $5.00c it
114 Eilennaei : A bad career move from you? I don't think so. There's going to be an ever increasing need for software everywhere. We need a standard platform for al
115 RichardPrice : I specialise in inhouse coding of highly customised software and webdevelopment, but software for the masses will become a commoditised item over the
116 Eilennaei : Sorry about this, but you've been misinformed, the software IS the phone. Save some analogue high frequency fundamental circuitry everything runs und
117 RichardPrice : Actually the cost of cellphones as units are pretty high, while on nearly all devices the GSM stacks (or equivilent for the network used) are off the
118 AC773 : Millions and millions. There's no shortage of people who want a good, easy alternative to Windows without having to buy an entirely new machine. You
119 RichardPrice : But they wont, because the applications wont be there. Catch 22 situation - no games, no $5 educational cds from Walmart, no custom applications from
120 Post contains images AC773 : The average user I'm thinking of (the same one that won't want to splurge for new hardware) just uses their computer for e-mail, internet, office app
121 RichardPrice : Yes they are, but they are also the type of person who wont understand why they cant run the above mentioned programs at a whim, and they will also p
122 Hawaiian717 : While some portion of this would be growth from people who would not otherwise run Mac OS X, there would also be a significant number of people who w
123 Eilennaei : We're talking about two different things. I was not talking about the smartphones which are actually a computer in its own right + a phone, but the c
124 Post contains links Klaus : Richardprice and Hawaiian717 have already addressed most of the points I would have made. Buyers of PC hardware and software routinely underestimate t
125 RichardPrice : No we arent, Im talking about cellphones in general. The call making portion of the phone is usually either an off the shelf GMS stack bought from a
126 Eilennaei : Oh boy, can you imagine the amount of work that has gone into just these little GSM chips? They are actually mostly software, only in the form of sil
127 RichardPrice : Uhm, GSM chips are not FP-PGA chips, and they are not just 'mostly software only in the form of silicon.' Ive had enough talking to a brick wall. You
128 Post contains links Eilennaei : Well, be my guest and tell us what GSM chips are, exactly. Saying: "oh they're just a stack I can use in my smartphone software projects" will not do
129 Klaus : You're apparently confusing different levels again, and contradicting yourself in the process. Hardware is very much "alive" - more than ever, actual
130 Post contains links Eilennaei : Arggh! That "dedicated hardware" is silicon, molded by design software under a set logical rules called "silicon compilers". The result will not be a
131 RichardPrice : Eilennaei, you seem to be going off on a massive tangent, even more so than you usually do in Mac related topics. Firmware, as in software written to
132 Klaus : Software is a set of stored instructions to be executed by a multi-purpose CPU in order to perform a specific algorithm. If such an algorithm is imple
133 Eilennaei : The final result on silicon will mimic the design on the software level perfectly. Although the design can't be altered while it's installed (some im
134 RichardPrice : Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. You still have no point.
135 Eilennaei : Anything you can write for a "normal" computer can also be realised through a silicon compiler & chip foundry. True, some capital is needed.
136 Eilennaei : But am I right? (And btw it was Klaus' turn, not yours.)[Edited 2006-04-14 17:55:03]
137 Post contains images Klaus : No, it's not "stored". That is the point. It is converted into a dedicated circuit, which is a completely different technology. I've done both hard-m
138 RichardPrice : No, not really. You are talking about turning a generic processing capability into a specific processing capability, and it isnt always possible beca
139 Eilennaei : Klaus, Richard. If I'm not right, can you give me an example where you just can't realise through a silicon compiler and a chip foundry the very same
140 RichardPrice : I just did, or are you selectively ignoring parts of my post?! You are rapidly using up my last bit of patience, because its becoming obvious you are
141 Eilennaei : Richard, why don't you take a beer or two and relax. I guess Klaus has figured out what I was up to in my last post, since I he has not posted. It's a
142 RichardPrice : I know how processing units are made, and I still maintain that the instruction sets written to them are competely different to the software you writ
143 Post contains images Klaus : You're confusing software with the algorithm it implements. You can implement an algorithm as either software or dedicated hardware; The two are stru
144 RichardPrice : I guess this is more a point of view than anything, so you are welcome to disagree. My Amiga had about a dozen custom chips handling functions as nam
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Regional Settings Problem On Windows XP posted Mon Oct 23 2006 18:41:23 by Brick
Windows XP 'themes' posted Wed Oct 11 2006 11:01:52 by Linco22
Windows XP Archiving/Compression... Help Needed posted Fri Jul 7 2006 20:34:08 by SKYSERVICE_330
Windows XP Haters? posted Mon May 22 2006 17:41:32 by Migfan
Windows Xp Help posted Sat Apr 22 2006 09:37:43 by Senliture
Windows XP Popup Blocker posted Sun Feb 5 2006 09:59:41 by Ryan h
Windows XP Question posted Mon Dec 12 2005 22:29:29 by Lobster
Windows XP Error Reporting? posted Wed Dec 7 2005 06:12:51 by Dragon-wings
Rhaa! Stupid Windows XP! posted Mon Nov 28 2005 11:22:45 by Gordonsmall
Help With Windows XP posted Fri May 6 2005 23:28:13 by LooneyToon